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      Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager

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      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13386: Aug 16, 2017 01:28:13 pm
      Im starting to wonder if 1 or 2 chinks are coming to light with the boss.

      We know hes failed to sort out our issues at the back. And honestly the issues could be ironed out with coaching not millions of pound.

      But last night i spotted another issue with the coaching staff. I said to my lad witb about 10 to go that Mane was gone. His legs were empty. Moments later he couldnt adjust to a misplaced pass. A slightly misplaced pass. From the resulting throw they worked the goal. How can the manager and assistants not spot that and see a change was needed? 

      At 2 nil in Eurppe why did we not tighten up and see it out? Maybe im overthinking it?  But im always amazed when managers cant see things like that

      Agree and disagree, that pass from Wijnaldum was played 10 yards behind him with enough pace to comfortably get out of play. Mane was on the move expecting the pass to be played 20 yards in front of him. Gini got his angles completely wrong on that one.

      Jürgen did sub him off not long after and I could tell from the shot that he was completely knackered but the thing to remember also is that these players have incredible recovery rates, especially explosive wingers. Their body is designed to sprint/stop/repeat so seeing him weak in one moment may not mean he is spent. This is something Jürgen and his fitness coaches will now with intricate detail, it's why we run further and faster than almost every team and I don't think this is a worry whatsoever.
      Brian78
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13387: Aug 16, 2017 01:31:58 pm
      Agree and disagree, that pass from Wijnaldum was played 10 yards behind him with enough pace to comfortably get out of play. Mane was on the move expecting the pass to be played 20 yards in front of him. Gini got his angles completely wrong on that one.

      Jürgen did sub him off not long after and I could tell from the shot that he was completely knackered but the thing to remember also is that these players have incredible recovery rates, especially explosive wingers. Their body is designed to sprint/stop/repeat so seeing him weak in one moment may not mean he is spent. This is something Jürgen and his fitness coaches will now with intricate detail, it's why we run further and faster than almost every team and I don't think this is a worry whatsoever.

      In manes case he had half a pre season after a couple of months injured. He played saturday and last night giving his usual effort. He was tired. Not a ill be grand to again in a minute. He was gone. My worry is over the course of a season is how many details like that which can be game changing will the line miss or react too slowly to?
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13388: Aug 16, 2017 01:37:36 pm
      Agree and disagree, that pass from Wijnaldum was played 10 yards behind him with enough pace to comfortably get out of play. Mane was on the move expecting the pass to be played 20 yards in front of him. Gini got his angles completely wrong on that one.

      Jürgen did sub him off not long after and I could tell from the shot that he was completely knackered but the thing to remember also is that these players have incredible recovery rates, especially explosive wingers. Their body is designed to sprint/stop/repeat so seeing him weak in one moment may not mean he is spent. This is something Jürgen and his fitness coaches will now with intricate detail, it's why we run further and faster than almost every team and I don't think this is a worry whatsoever.

      I think the kamikaze football doesn't help. If we don't get hold of that midfield on a regularly basis, I can see us running out of steam by December.
      Beerbelly
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13389: Aug 16, 2017 01:44:33 pm
      Im starting to wonder if 1 or 2 chinks are coming to light with the boss.

      We know hes failed to sort out our issues at the back. And honestly the issues could be ironed out with coaching not millions of pound.

      But last night i spotted another issue with the coaching staff. I said to my lad witb about 10 to go that Mane was gone. His legs were empty. Moments later he couldnt adjust to a misplaced pass. A slightly misplaced pass. From the resulting throw they worked the goal. How can the manager and assistants not spot that and see a change was needed? 

      At 2 nil in Eurppe why did we not tighten up and see it out? Maybe im overthinking it?  But im always amazed when managers cant see things like that

      You could see Mane was dead on his feet, I must have had the same conversation at around the same time with the old dear.

      There are too many chinks for my liking at the moment.

      Don't really want to think about when the wheels will/if come off, just glad we got a win in an important fixture but now with these midweek games (hopefully coming up), Mane will get rinsed - he's now our best, and most important attacking player. It is a worry.
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13390: Aug 16, 2017 01:45:15 pm
      In manes case he had half a pre season after a couple of months injured. He played saturday and last night giving his usual effort. He was tired. Not a ill be grand to again in a minute. He was gone. My worry is over the course of a season is how many details like that which can be game changing will the line miss or react too slowly to?

      I agree he was tired mate, just the point being that when Mane is tired I'm sure the coaches know what his body can do, like most of us when we're tired we're different from others. Some of us recover much quicker than others and in Mane's case I've seen him look tired and then sprint within 5 minutes, his powers of recovery are exceptional.

      Will pushing these players consistently burn them out, well that's the juggling act we have but I do agree with PM's point above which states that the midfield is putting a large strain on the front lads at the moment. Getting players that can win the ball back and also hold on to controlled possession in the middle of the park is vital for our system to work, otherwise the constant back and forth with no rest (while with the ball) will take it's toll.
      Swab
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13391: Aug 16, 2017 01:47:23 pm
      I think the kamikaze football doesn't help. If we don't get hold of that midfield on a regularly basis, I can see us running out of steam by December.

      We will struggle against teams that play wing backs, and get outnumbered in the centre, if the wide forwards don't track the wing backs.
      If our FB's push up on the WB's, it leaves us light at the back.
      That's why I said it was an organisational issue in the match thread, we need more discipline against teams playing this system, and less rotation in midfield.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13392: Aug 16, 2017 02:08:05 pm
      We will struggle against teams that play wing backs, and get outnumbered in the centre, if the wide forwards don't track the wing backs.
      If our FB's push up on the WB's, it leaves us light at the back.
      That's why I said it was an organisational issue in the match thread, we need more discipline against teams playing this system, and less rotation in midfield.

      Yeah, I agree, but even vs Watford, I thought we struggled in the middle of the park too. I am starting to think it's because we don't have a natural #6, and I sure as hell don't remember this happen very often when Lucas was there.
      Swab
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13393: Aug 16, 2017 02:16:47 pm
      Yeah, I agree, but even vs Watford, I thought we struggled in the middle of the park too. I am starting to think it's because we don't have a natural #6, and I sure as hell don't remember this happen very often when Lucas was there.

      I think it's caused by the uncertainty of expecting 3 players to interchange.
      If he sticks with it (Klopp) it'll come together given time, but at the moment it's lacking as a system, and the players are kind of getting in each others way.
      Better on field communication will help, but there's no substitute for understanding a role.
      Beerbelly
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13394: Aug 16, 2017 02:38:03 pm
      Yeah, I agree, but even vs Watford, I thought we struggled in the middle of the park too. I am starting to think it's because we don't have a natural #6, and I sure as hell don't remember this happen very often when Lucas was there.

      We didn't have this issue when Hendo played the 6 behind Coutinho and Lallana.

      That midfield would put us on the front foot and possession would be offensive. Our "electric" attack stemmed from the fact Lallana and Coutinho were behind the likes of Firmino, Mane & Origi last season. It's no coincidence our attack thus far this season hasn't looked anywhere near as potent - because it's gone from a quintet to a trio of Salah, Mane and Bobby. 

      Same as Watford, neither Gini or Can have the ability to boss the midfield & Hendo, they're all too similar - reactive (Gini lesser so), midfielders which allow the oppo into the game more.
      Rush
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13395: Aug 16, 2017 06:55:06 pm
      If Lovren and Moreno's performances against Hoffenheim doesn't convince Klopp we need new blood in defence, then I don't know what will. On times it was laughable
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13396: Aug 16, 2017 07:13:57 pm
      Obviously the window isn't closed yet, but as it stands I'm beginning to lose a bit of faith in Jürgen. Not in his management skills, but in my belief that we will win the title at some stage during his time as manager.
      If he honestly believes Lovren, Moreno, Migs, Klavan, and Karius are good enough, and IF he doesn't believe anyone other than Van Dijk snd Keita can improve or squad then I'm worried.

      He has faith in his players, and that's a good thing, but he's bordering on stubbornness at times by not dropping players that are out of form or clearly not good enough.

      Now that I've said that he will go out and buy some top talent in those positions of course.
      tezmac
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13397: Aug 16, 2017 08:01:42 pm
      Obviously the window isn't closed yet, but as it stands I'm beginning to lose a bit of faith in Jürgen. Not in his management skills, but in my belief that we will win the title at some stage during his time as manager.
      If he honestly believes Lovren, Moreno, Migs, Klavan, and Karius are good enough, and IF he doesn't believe anyone other than Van Dijk snd Keita can improve or squad then I'm worried.

      He has faith in his players, and that's a good thing, but he's bordering on stubbornness at times by not dropping players that are out of form or clearly not good enough.

      Now that I've said that he will go out and buy some top talent in those positions of course.


      Let's hopr
      redkop63
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13398: Aug 16, 2017 09:00:42 pm
      When are people going to accept that sakho will never play for us again and move on

      I'm also questioning now why does Sakho still needs to be with the club when Klopp don't intend to use him any further???  Just sell him and get someone else. Am I happy with the way Lovren performed against Hoffeinheim? Not at all, he was all over the place. So, what I'm saying here to Klopp is, bury the hatchet, otherwise the hatchet will bury him. No time to talk about the past. The past is past, Sakho would have learned a lesson. As a good manager, you punish players when they do not toe the line and after they have received their punishment, the counter is set back to zero and we move on. Sorry mate, we see things differently.
      AZPatriot
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13399: Aug 16, 2017 09:08:07 pm
      I'm also questioning now why does Sakho still needs to be with the club when Klopp don't intend to use him any further???  Just sell him and get someone else.

      We have a price on him at £30 million...considering how he is a French international and that CB's are supposedly very very hard to come by the bigger question is why has nobody come in to bid for a player whose club would be happy to sell?
      5timesacharm
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13400: Aug 17, 2017 01:46:50 am
      We have a price on him at £30 million...considering how he is a French international and that CB's are supposedly very very hard to come by the bigger question is why has nobody come in to bid for a player whose club would be happy to sell?

      Most top clubs already have them and lower table clubs can't afford him. I also suspect it's because they know we want to offload him so my guess is we'll see offers under our valuation come in on deadline day. If we do offload him it'll probably result in our winning the net spend league for the second year running.
      JustMingle
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13401: Aug 17, 2017 08:41:25 am
      Obviously the window isn't closed yet, but as it stands I'm beginning to lose a bit of faith in Jürgen. Not in his management skills, but in my belief that we will win the title at some stage during his time as manager.
      If he honestly believes Lovren, Moreno, Migs, Klavan, and Karius are good enough, and IF he doesn't believe anyone other than Van Dijk snd Keita can improve or squad then I'm worried.

      He has faith in his players, and that's a good thing, but he's bordering on stubbornness at times by not dropping players that are out of form or clearly not good enough.

      Now that I've said that he will go out and buy some top talent in those positions of course.

      I cant see how you can literally bomb a player out as blatantly as Moreno but then go to:
      .....play a midfielder in his place for an entire season
      .....buy a replacement LB this preseason
      .....but then start Moreno in the first 2 games !!

      It cant be based on a couple of half decent preseasons performances can it?
      heimdall
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13402: Aug 17, 2017 09:48:44 am
      Obviously the window isn't closed yet, but as it stands I'm beginning to lose a bit of faith in Jürgen. Not in his management skills, but in my belief that we will win the title at some stage during his time as manager.
      If he honestly believes Lovren, Moreno, Migs, Klavan, and Karius are good enough, and IF he doesn't believe anyone other than Van Dijk snd Keita can improve or squad then I'm worried.

      He has faith in his players, and that's a good thing, but he's bordering on stubbornness at times by not dropping players that are out of form or clearly not good enough.

      Now that I've said that he will go out and buy some top talent in those positions of course.

      he's a fantastic coach but a very average manager, in the old sense of the word.  I think he needs a top top DOF to work alongside him.
      shabbadoo
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13403: Aug 17, 2017 10:19:07 am
      Average manager? F***ing hell some of you lot are losing your heads two game in..

      We have a 'world class' manager dictated to by average owners.

      We know which of the two are more ambitious & won more in football.
      heimdall
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13404: Aug 17, 2017 10:32:42 am
      Average manager? F***ing hell some of you lot are losing your heads two game in..

      We have a 'world class' manager dictated to by average owners.

      We know which of the two are more ambitious & won more in football.

      read what I said again before you get your knickers in a twist, here let me quote it for you:

      "he's a fantastic coach but a very average manager, in the old sense of the word."

      What I mean by this is that he does not seem to be good at the kind of wheeling dealing day to day transfer market of someone like Harry Redknapp, but he is absolutely amazing as a man-manager and football coach in setting up the teams to play greater than the sum of their parts.
      I have always said that the very best coaches are inspirational man-managers and that is 100% true of Klopp, it's one of the great failings of someone like Rafa, who is a superb tactician but from all reports is quite cold and impersonal as a man-manager.
      Dadorious
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13405: Aug 17, 2017 01:43:04 pm
      read what I said again before you get your knickers in a twist, here let me quote it for you:

      "he's a fantastic coach but a very average manager, in the old sense of the word."

      What I mean by this is that he does not seem to be good at the kind of wheeling dealing day to day transfer market of someone like Harry Redknapp, but he is absolutely amazing as a man-manager and football coach in setting up the teams to play greater than the sum of their parts.
      I have always said that the very best coaches are inspirational man-managers and that is 100% true of Klopp, it's one of the great failings of someone like Rafa, who is a superb tactician but from all reports is quite cold and impersonal as a man-manager.

      Did you just put Arry and Klopp in the same sentence?

      FFS!
      heimdall
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13406: Aug 17, 2017 03:30:16 pm
      Did you just put Arry and Klopp in the same sentence?

      FFS!


      Some of you guys seem to have a massive problem differentiating between a modern coach and an old style manager. By old style manager I'm talking about the man, lets call him Harry for illustration, who was involved with all aspects of the club, from COACHING the players to MANAGING transfers to everything in between. I think Klopp is a superb coach, in the sense of a coach in American sports and most other sports really, where they are 100% focussed on the actual team, incl tactics, man-management etc but nothing to do with the running of the club.

      So I really hope this is now clear and that its bloody obvious that I'm not trying to compare Herr Klopp to Mr Redknapp in terms of coaching success or ability?
      FL Red
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13407: Aug 17, 2017 03:41:33 pm
      Some of you guys seem to have a massive problem differentiating between a modern coach and an old style manager. By old style manager I'm talking about the man, lets call him Harry for illustration, who was involved with all aspects of the club, from COACHING the players to MANAGING transfers to everything in between. I think Klopp is a superb coach, in the sense of a coach in American sports and most other sports really, where they are 100% focussed on the actual team, incl tactics, man-management etc but nothing to do with the running of the club.

      So I really hope this is now clear and that its bloody obvious that I'm not trying to compare Herr Klopp to Mr Redknapp in terms of coaching success or ability?

      I'll be honest, I don't care about semantics, just don't ever put Klopp's name in the same post as Harry's.

      Thanks.

      Oh now I've done it.   :mad:
      green_bear
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #13408: Aug 17, 2017 05:19:18 pm
      If Lovren and Moreno's performances against Hoffenheim doesn't convince Klopp we need new blood in defence, then I don't know what will. On times it was laughable

      The fact that he kept both of them on for the entire game worries me that he doesn't see it as a critical issue. If he thinks our defense is a big issue, he would have and should have been more active in going after defenders this summer rather than putting all the eggs in the VVD basket.
      If nobody else is coming in at the end of the transfer window then we'll end up with an even worse defense than last season and that's bloody terrifying.

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