Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager

Who is lucky if he even makes the bench

He should do though. He's better than our right backs.

He should do though. He's better than our right backs.

I agree, I think he has been good when he's played, he can actually put a cross in too! Been boss for Scotland as well. Strange considering Moreno was clearly not wanted all of last season and played such little football to the extent that Milner spent the season playing LB but now it's roles revered, Milner benched and Moreno playing.

Saying that though, our summer transfers were strange and a lot of decisions about the line up have been strange this season too so don't know why I'm surprised about Robertson not playing much.

Why don't you apply to manage a football team, you should have plenty of offers after all you are better than a twice winning title manager who also reached a CL final.

F***ing clowns calling themselves LFC fans, posters like you deserve Hodgson!

In all honesty I am certain that given time I could do as well as most managers, in the lower leagues, but unfortunately I'm not an ex-player and that seems to be the only route into football management, certainly in this country.

You are joking? If not you are living in cuckoo land 

Sadly I'm not, I love Jürgen to bits for his passion and he seems like a really great guy, but I am starting to question his managerial and tactical decisions more and more and I'm not the only one. I think his style of football was a breath of fresh air for Dortmund and initially for us and swept them to success but its now been completely found out and countered by even shitty little teams, unfortunately Jürgen simply doesn't seem to have a plan B and for a "top" coach that is extremely worrying. I am also utterly baffled by his transfers, the decision to get the Ox into an already crowded midfield and not get a new CB is at best weird, then on top of that we finally get a good LB, Robertson, and then don't play him.

Sadly I'm not, I love Jürgen to bits for his passion and he seems like a really great guy, but I am starting to question his managerial and tactical decisions more and more and I'm not the only one. I think his style of football was a breath of fresh air for Dortmund and initially for us and swept them to success but its now been completely found out and countered by even shitty little teams, unfortunately Jürgen simply doesn't seem to have a plan B and for a "top" coach that is extremely worrying. I am also utterly baffled by his transfers, the decision to get the Ox into an already crowded midfield and not get a new CB is at best weird, then on top of that we finally get a good LB, Robertson, and then don't play him.

Although I agree with you to an extent, (his transfers leave a lot to be desired) I wouldn't want another manager here as long as FSG are running the show.
Jürgen is a good manager, you could look at any manager and find faults with them.
I still trust him.

Although I agree with you to an extent, (his transfers leave a lot to be desired) I wouldn't want another manager here as long as FSG are running the show.
Jürgen is a good manager, you could look at any manager and find faults with them.
I still trust him.

Both good posts and agree with Both I think his decisions regarding transfers and in game decision making is being scrutinized . Next game can put that to bed for a while or could turn heat up further.

Why don't you apply to manage a football team, you should have plenty of offers after all you are better than a twice winning title manager who also reached a CL final.

F***ing clowns calling themselves LFC fans, posters like you deserve Hodgson!

Don't know why it is that people think that if you do not do something for a living that you... (A) do not now what you are talking about compered to someone who does that thing for a living, or (B) would not be any good at it....Use to play American Football along side a American Army officer by the name of David, other soldiers who knew him, one in particular Jeff who grow up in the same town as him and attended the same Schools as he did said that he was always great at sports especially Baseball, and was offered a scholarship to a University or two because he was so good, but never excepted it because he always wanted to be in the Army...

The point I am making some people in life either never end up where they should be, because of circumstances or choice, and just because they end up elsewhere it does not mean they do not know of what they speak...

Both good posts and agree with Both I think his decisions regarding transfers and in game decision making is being scrutinized . Next game can put that to bed for a while or could turn heat up further.

Completely agree rossy...

and therein lies the real problem, Klopp's inflexibility, stubbornness, tactical naivety and lack of vision.

Sadly I'm not, I love Jürgen to bits for his passion and he seems like a really great guy, but I am starting to question his managerial and tactical decisions more and more and I'm not the only one. I think his style of football was a breath of fresh air for Dortmund and initially for us and swept them to success but its now been completely found out and countered by even shitty little teams, unfortunately Jürgen simply doesn't seem to have a plan B and for a "top" coach that is extremely worrying. I am also utterly baffled by his transfers, the decision to get the Ox into an already crowded midfield and not get a new CB is at best weird, then on top of that we finally get a good LB, Robertson, and then don't play him.

Tactical naivety? Questioning his tactical decisions? How do you explain Klopp's record against the tactically best managers in the world? Dumb luck? Or were the other managers tactically naive in the way they played against him?

Some of his records:

Jupp Heynckes          13   5   4   4
Thomas Tuchel          12   8   3   1
Pep Guardiola          11   5   1   5
Arsène Wenger           9   4   2   3
José Mourinho           7   3   3   1
Manuel Pellegrini   5   3   1   1
Mauricio Pochettino   5   2   3   0

And Pep's record is mainly from his time at Dortmund, since Pep's arrival in the PL, he has only beat Klopp once and that was the 5-0 against 10 men. Were all these managers naive when they played Klopp teams? Or was Klopp (and his team) smarter and beat them? In 72 games against some of the best managers and teams in the world, he has only lost 15 times.

The "being found out" line is absolute bollocks. We've actually improved against the bus parkers. Last season we consistently failed to create big chances in that kind of games, this season we actually create quite a few big chances, it's the finishing that has let us down. Solanke's chance goes an inch lower and we beat Burnley 2-1, any of the 3-4 other big chances we had against Newcastle go in and we win that game with ease. Creating chances against the bus parkers is the hardest part, we're creating plenty now, just need to be more clinical. That has nothing to do with being found out.

Just because you fail to see our different tactical set-ups (a "plan B") doesn't mean they're not there. Do you think we set up the same against Bayern in preseason? Against Burnley? Against Arsenal? Against Hoffenheim? There were tons of tactical tweaks in all of these games.

Talking about "plan B" - What is Guardiola's "plan B" then? Did Barcelona have a "plan B" if "plan A" failed?

For the 100th time, Robertson and AOX have only been here for little over a month, in that time there have been two international breaks and we've had a ton of games to play leaving very little time for the lads to actually get on the training pitch. Robertson has already played 3 (4?) full games for us in which he did well and he will continue to be eased in and get playing time. Also, how is our midfield already 'crowded'? We have one #6, Henderson. We have Coutinho, Wijnaldum, Can and Lallana as #8's. Can doesn't fit our system as an #8, Lallana has spent half his time here on the treatment table, that leaves us with Coutinho and Wijnaldum we can regularly rely on. Is that enough? Is that 'crowded'? We've got lots of games to play, we needed extra cover in midfield. Lallana is also nearly 30, how much longer do you think he'll be able to play a high pressing game in a Klopp team? Klopp has to look to the future, bringing someone in now, to get them ready, who can take over in a year or so is good planning.

Klopp isn't thinking about just the next game, he has already mapped out the season, and knows his long term plans for next season. It's his nature to think long term, and work towards the goals he has set.

Swab already said it, stop thinking in terms of the here and now and start thinking long term.

Tactical naivety? Questioning his tactical decisions? How do you explain Klopp's record against the tactically best managers in the world? Dumb luck? Or were the other managers tactically naive in the way they played against him?

Some of his records:

Jupp Heynckes          13   5   4   4
Thomas Tuchel          12   8   3   1
Pep Guardiola          11   5   1   5
Arsène Wenger           9   4   2   3
José Mourinho           7   3   3   1
Manuel Pellegrini   5   3   1   1
Mauricio Pochettino   5   2   3   0

And Pep's record is mainly from his time at Dortmund, since Pep's arrival in the PL, he has only beat Klopp once and that was the 5-0 against 10 men. Were all these managers naive when they played Klopp teams? Or was Klopp (and his team) smarter and beat them? In 72 games against some of the best managers and teams in the world, he has only lost 15 times.

The "being found out" line is absolute bollocks. We've actually improved against the bus parkers. Last season we consistently failed to create big chances in that kind of games, this season we actually create quite a few big chances, it's the finishing that has let us down. Solanke's chance goes an inch lower and we beat Burnley 2-1, any of the 3-4 other big chances we had against Newcastle go in and we win that game with ease. Creating chances against the bus parkers is the hardest part, we're creating plenty now, just need to be more clinical. That has nothing to do with being found out.

Just because you fail to see our different tactical set-ups (a "plan B") doesn't mean they're not there. Do you think we set up the same against Bayern in preseason? Against Burnley? Against Arsenal? Against Hoffenheim? There were tons of tactical tweaks in all of these games.

Talking about "plan B" - What is Guardiola's "plan B" then? Did Barcelona have a "plan B" if "plan A" failed?

For the 100th time, Robertson and AOX have only been here for little over a month, in that time there have been two international breaks and we've had a ton of games to play leaving very little time for the lads to actually get on the training pitch. Robertson has already played 3 (4?) full games for us in which he did well and he will continue to be eased in and get playing time. Also, how is our midfield already 'crowded'? We have one #6, Henderson. We have Coutinho, Wijnaldum, Can and Lallana as #8's. Can doesn't fit our system as an #8, Lallana has spent half his time here on the treatment table, that leaves us with Coutinho and Wijnaldum we can regularly rely on. Is that enough? Is that 'crowded'? We've got lots of games to play, we needed extra cover in midfield. Lallana is also nearly 30, how much longer do you think he'll be able to play a high pressing game in a Klopp team? Klopp has to look to the future, bringing someone in now, to get them ready, who can take over in a year or so is good planning.
 
Swab already said it, stop thinking in terms of the here and now and start thinking long term.

Way to nit pick.. now bring his record against Burnley, Newcastle, Southampton, Watford, Leicester and the likes so we can speak about tactical naivety.

We did not improve against the bus parkers.. chances are pointless if you don't make them count.. I hate to say it but take a look at United last season and this season.. they have improved against bus parkers.

Guardiola did not have a plan B at Barcelona because plan A worked.. ours not so much especially against teams that sit deep.

We need extra cover in midfield so we bring a winger/wing back that thinks he's the next Gerrard to play him there ? Where's the logic in that ?

Also not having a dig at Klopp(mostly at FSG) but I'm tired of this long term bullshit that's been shoved down our throats everytime we want to see some progress in the trophy case or the league table.

What's long term 28years since the last title ? 10 years since the last trophy ? 8 years since FSG took over ?

Tactical naivety? Questioning his tactical decisions? How do you explain Klopp's record against the tactically best managers in the world? Dumb luck? Or were the other managers tactically naive in the way they played against him?

Some of his records:

Jupp Heynckes          13   5   4   4
Thomas Tuchel          12   8   3   1
Pep Guardiola          11   5   1   5
Arsène Wenger           9   4   2   3
José Mourinho           7   3   3   1
Manuel Pellegrini   5   3   1   1
Mauricio Pochettino   5   2   3   0

And Pep's record is mainly from his time at Dortmund, since Pep's arrival in the PL, he has only beat Klopp once and that was the 5-0 against 10 men. Were all these managers naive when they played Klopp teams? Or was Klopp (and his team) smarter and beat them? In 72 games against some of the best managers and teams in the world, he has only lost 15 times.

The "being found out" line is absolute bollocks. We've actually improved against the bus parkers. Last season we consistently failed to create big chances in that kind of games, this season we actually create quite a few big chances, it's the finishing that has let us down. Solanke's chance goes an inch lower and we beat Burnley 2-1, any of the 3-4 other big chances we had against Newcastle go in and we win that game with ease. Creating chances against the bus parkers is the hardest part, we're creating plenty now, just need to be more clinical. That has nothing to do with being found out.

Just because you fail to see our different tactical set-ups (a "plan B") doesn't mean they're not there. Do you think we set up the same against Bayern in preseason? Against Burnley? Against Arsenal? Against Hoffenheim? There were tons of tactical tweaks in all of these games.

Talking about "plan B" - What is Guardiola's "plan B" then? Did Barcelona have a "plan B" if "plan A" failed?

For the 100th time, Robertson and AOX have only been here for little over a month, in that time there have been two international breaks and we've had a ton of games to play leaving very little time for the lads to actually get on the training pitch. Robertson has already played 3 (4?) full games for us in which he did well and he will continue to be eased in and get playing time. Also, how is our midfield already 'crowded'? We have one #6, Henderson. We have Coutinho, Wijnaldum, Can and Lallana as #8's. Can doesn't fit our system as an #8, Lallana has spent half his time here on the treatment table, that leaves us with Coutinho and Wijnaldum we can regularly rely on. Is that enough? Is that 'crowded'? We've got lots of games to play, we needed extra cover in midfield. Lallana is also nearly 30, how much longer do you think he'll be able to play a high pressing game in a Klopp team? Klopp has to look to the future, bringing someone in now, to get them ready, who can take over in a year or so is good planning.
 
Swab already said it, stop thinking in terms of the here and now and start thinking long term.

Outstanding post, well said that man.

What's long term  28years since the last title ? 10 years since the last trophy ? 8 years since FSG took over ?

2 years since Klopp got here, judging him on anything other than that is just stupidity. Be fair to the man, look at what he inherited, look at where he has us and where he's heading, if you can't see the progress or the plan then fair enough but if you can't you really must view football in a manner I couldn't understand, because to me the progress, plan and future success all look obvious.

Be fair to the man, look at what he inherited

He should be doing more in the windows, this point is pretty mute now he has been here a while.

He should be doing more in the windows, this point is pretty mute now he has been here a while.

Read the posts by Danzel, Riba. Educate yourself in the way the man works and understand that he's trying to fit the pieces together. Did he not have Keita (wanted by Bayern and Barca apparently) and also VvD (wanted by City, Man U, Chelsea and many foreign clubs) begging to sign for us. This is the best defender in the premier league and the 2nd best player in the whole of the Bundesliga.

When you're told over and over that we can't and wont ever compete with those above us in more favourable financial positions and then you see that amount of lure the man has then surely you can afford him some patience while he puts those pieces together. Instead it's as if the man is slowing us down, like we were on a path to success and he's a roadblock to our glory. Absolute madness!

Way to nit pick.. now bring his record against Burnley, Newcastle, Southampton, Watford, Leicester and the likes so we can speak about tactical naivety.

We did not improve against the bus parkers.. chances are pointless if you don't make them count.. I hate to say it but take a look at United last season and this season.. they have improved against bus parkers.

Guardiola did not have a plan B at Barcelona because plan A worked.. ours not so much especially against teams that sit deep.

We need extra cover in midfield so we bring a winger/wing back that thinks he's the next Gerrard to play him there ? Where's the logic in that ?

Also not having a dig at Klopp(mostly at FSG) but I'm tired of this long term bullshit that's been shoved down our throats everytime we want to see some progress in the trophy case or the league table.

What's long term 28years since the last title ? 10 years since the last trophy ? 8 years since FSG took over ?

I deliberately picked managers who Klopp has faced more than five times, which is why I left out Conte (who is yet to win a game against Klopp). You can't judge a manager's record against someone with one or two games. I'm also comparing managers as you can see, not teams. Teams play a different kind of football under a different manager (Pochettino's Southampton was miles away from Fabre's Southampton last season for example). Managers tend to stick to their style of play.

There's also a massive difference between tactical naivity and individual mistakes by players. What does tactical naivity have to do with individual mistakes by players? Just this season: is Wijnaldum missing an easy clearing header against Watford tactical naivity? Is Karius not being able to save that freekick against Spartak tactical naivity? Is Lovren and Matip not communicating well enough and a lucky wobble of the ball for Newcastle's goal tactical naivity? You know what was tactical naivity? Wenger coming to play the way he did at Anfield this season. THAT was tactical naivity.

We have improved against bus parkers, of course creating chances doesn't mean anything if you don't make them count, but you can't make them count if you don't create them and that's what we're doing right now.

That's what Klopp is working on, improving plan A and there's two more players (hopefully) coming in with Van Dijk and Keita to help that plan A. AOX is not a wingback. Could say he's a winger, but his skillset allows him to play in midfield too. Was Lallana a #8 at Southampton? Did Henderson play as a #6 before Klopp came? Klopp has an idea for every player he brings in and he most likely has one for AOX too. If it is as a midfielder, it will take a while before he'll be able to play there because midfield is crucial for our pressing and mistakes in that pressing will always be costly.

Long term? This is Klopp's second full season. Our club was a shambles when he took over, all the way down from the academy up to the top. Look at how many of our academy players have been allowed to leave, how good our youth teams are doing in their respective competitions, the way he changed the way the players eat, the worldclass condition trainers he has brought in, the plans to combine the training facilities for both youth and the first team, ... That's what a long term plan is all about, a vision (something heimdall says Klopp doesn't have, f**k me  ) Judge him on the time he has been here, not on the 28 years he wasn't.

It takes a minimum of 3 years to build a solid team capable of consistently challenging for trophies.
And before anyone mentions Istanbul, let's be realistic; it was a glorious fluke.

Every manager and every remotely switched on observer of the game knows this, and indeed Klopp's record bears this out.

If only some people put as much effort into supporting the team as they do into whining and running the team and the club down.

2 years since Klopp got here, judging him on anything other than that is just stupidity. Be fair to the man, look at what he inherited, look at where he has us and where he's heading, if you can't see the progress or the plan then fair enough but if you can't you really must view football in a manner I couldn't understand, because to me the progress, plan and future success all look obvious.

Like I've said I didn't specifically referred to Klopp's time here when I've said that but to the fact that the 'long term' excuse is often used when things don't go too well as in 'hey we haven't won sh*t in a long time' and you get 'but it's only year 2 on the current project'.. I'm well aware the it's only Klopp's second year here and I can't judge the clubs lack of trophies only based on that.

Also I thought this was a forum guys where you present different arguments and not a 'be the most self righteous and high horsed poster' competition.. although we already know who holds that crown

Tactical naivety? Questioning his tactical decisions? How do you explain Klopp's record against the tactically best managers in the world? Dumb luck? Or were the other managers tactically naive in the way they played against him?

Some of his records:

Jupp Heynckes          13   5   4   4
Thomas Tuchel          12   8   3   1
Pep Guardiola          11   5   1   5
Arsène Wenger           9   4   2   3
José Mourinho           7   3   3   1
Manuel Pellegrini   5   3   1   1
Mauricio Pochettino   5   2   3   0

And Pep's record is mainly from his time at Dortmund, since Pep's arrival in the PL, he has only beat Klopp once and that was the 5-0 against 10 men. Were all these managers naive when they played Klopp teams? Or was Klopp (and his team) smarter and beat them? In 72 games against some of the best managers and teams in the world, he has only lost 15 times.

The "being found out" line is absolute bollocks. We've actually improved against the bus parkers. Last season we consistently failed to create big chances in that kind of games, this season we actually create quite a few big chances, it's the finishing that has let us down. Solanke's chance goes an inch lower and we beat Burnley 2-1, any of the 3-4 other big chances we had against Newcastle go in and we win that game with ease. Creating chances against the bus parkers is the hardest part, we're creating plenty now, just need to be more clinical. That has nothing to do with being found out.

Just because you fail to see our different tactical set-ups (a "plan B") doesn't mean they're not there. Do you think we set up the same against Bayern in preseason? Against Burnley? Against Arsenal? Against Hoffenheim? There were tons of tactical tweaks in all of these games.

Talking about "plan B" - What is Guardiola's "plan B" then? Did Barcelona have a "plan B" if "plan A" failed?

For the 100th time, Robertson and AOX have only been here for little over a month, in that time there have been two international breaks and we've had a ton of games to play leaving very little time for the lads to actually get on the training pitch. Robertson has already played 3 (4?) full games for us in which he did well and he will continue to be eased in and get playing time. Also, how is our midfield already 'crowded'? We have one #6, Henderson. We have Coutinho, Wijnaldum, Can and Lallana as #8's. Can doesn't fit our system as an #8, Lallana has spent half his time here on the treatment table, that leaves us with Coutinho and Wijnaldum we can regularly rely on. Is that enough? Is that 'crowded'? We've got lots of games to play, we needed extra cover in midfield. Lallana is also nearly 30, how much longer do you think he'll be able to play a high pressing game in a Klopp team? Klopp has to look to the future, bringing someone in now, to get them ready, who can take over in a year or so is good planning.
 
Swab already said it, stop thinking in terms of the here and now and start thinking long term.

Remind me about the last game against Pep then, yes we were down to 10 men but we got our arses handed to us and I'm already starting to get nervous about the game against Manure, unless we have a good start then that that game could get very ugly very quickly.

It takes a minimum of 3 years to build a solid team capable of consistently challenging for trophies.
And before anyone mentions Istanbul, let's be realistic; it was a glorious fluke.

Every manager and every remotely switched on observer of the game knows this, and indeed Klopp's record bears this out.

If only some people put as much effort into supporting the team as they do into whining and running the team and the club down.

Hmm seems Maureen is able to buck that trend of needing 3 years.

Remind me about the last game against Pep then, yes we were down to 10 men but we got our arses handed to us and I'm already starting to get nervous about the game against Manure, unless we have a good start then that that game could get very ugly very quickly.

Erm... Once we went down to 10 men & only then did City turn up, we should have been 2-0 up before Mane was shown red..

& we are going to chin the Mancs..

In all honesty I am certain that given time I could do as well as most managers, in the lower leagues, but unfortunately I'm not an ex-player and that seems to be the only route into football management, certainly in this country.

Think the currently working longest serving Premier League manager only played amatuer footy at best.
You might've gone a step too far there mate

Look I'm all for giving Jürgen as long as he needs. Equally, I don't think for one minute that he's "tactically naive", nor do I believe in my heart of hearts that Heimdall could do a better job.

BUT, when you get the retiree declaring "It takes a minimum of 3 years to build a solid team capable of consistently challenging for trophies." (note the full stop at the end) you have to wonder. Then he and the lads get onto the "shambles" that Jürgen inherited whilst ignoring the fact that he said many times that he very much liked the squad he inherited, and despite the fact he still hasn't replaced 4/5 of them and has offered many of them new contracts you have to wonder.

Then we've got the other fella telling us that we're improving against bus parkers (or at least we are if you're as intelligent as him and you know what to look for) and the third member of the chuckle brothers imploring posters to "educate themselves" as to how the big man works, before you know where you are you'd be forgiven for thinking you're watching a different sport and that you're in the presence of some great tactical thinkers.

It's all nonsense of course, when you get past the "I know more than you do" silliness and subtext and just think for yourself, it becomes clear just how much bollocks is being spouted. Of course sometimes it CAN take three seasons to build a successful team, sometimes it takes longer and sometimes it takes less. Just because Swab (bless him) declares that it takes three years, as the song goes "it ain't necessarily so".

Conte didn't take three seasons obviously. He took over a team which had finished 10th the previous season, completely changed their tactical approach 1/3 of the way through the season and won the league. Mourinho (now he DID inherit a shambles) isn't taking three seasons at Man Utd and has completely changed the way they play, nor is Guardiola at City and he too has totally altered their approach. So to say "it takes three years" as a difinitive time period is just being silly. It is funny though   .   

NewKit trolls bored on a saturday night.

And boring as well for that matter.

*Awaits posts about how Paul Scholes was a defensive midfielder and Earnshaw would be a "good option" up front for us"

Look I'm all for giving Jürgen as long as he needs. Equally, I don't think for one minute that he's "tactically naive", nor do I believe in my heart of hearts that Heimdall could do a better job.

BUT, when you get the retiree declaring "It takes a minimum of 3 years to build a solid team capable of consistently challenging for trophies." (note the full stop at the end) you have to wonder. Then he and the lads get onto the "shambles" that Jürgen inherited whilst ignoring the fact that he said many times that he very much liked the squad he inherited, and despite the fact he still hasn't replaced 4/5 of them and has offered many of them new contracts you have to wonder.

Then we've got the other fella telling us that we're improving against bus parkers (or at least we are if you're as intelligent as him and you know what to look for) and the third member of the chuckle brothers imploring posters to "educate themselves" as to how the big man works, before you know where you are you'd be forgiven for thinking you're watching a different sport and that you're in the presence of some great tactical thinkers.

It's all nonsense of course, when you get past the "I know more than you do" silliness and subtext and just think for yourself, it becomes clear just how much bollocks is being spouted. Of course sometimes it CAN take three seasons to build a successful team, sometimes it takes longer and sometimes it takes less. Just because Swab (bless him) declares that it takes three years, as the song goes "it ain't necessarily so".

Conte didn't take three seasons obviously. He took over a team which had finished 10th the previous season, completely changed their tactical approach 1/3 of the way through the season and won the league. Mourinho (now he DID inherit a shambles) isn't taking three seasons at Man Utd and has completely changed the way they play, nor is Guardiola at City and he too has totally altered their approach. So to say "it takes three years" as a difinitive time period is just being silly. It is funny though   .   

Great post Bigmick, just to clarify that I was not saying I was better than any top managers, even Jürgen, I'm not quite that arrogant mate!
I do however get very irritated when you see a supposed top manager make the same mistakes time after time and ignore glaring issues in defence and midfield plus I would like to see more tactical variety and smarts in terms of formation tweaks and subs intra game.