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      Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager

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      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14766: Nov 21, 2017 09:48:03 pm
      For the love of god Jürgen buy a defensive midfielder

      Henderson's good enough apparently.
      Alfie2510
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14767: Nov 21, 2017 09:49:36 pm

      He was beyond bad today. What does he actually do?
      AussieRed
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14768: Nov 21, 2017 09:53:09 pm
      He was beyond bad today. What does he actually do?

      F***ing Nothing!

      When you think of Captains, you think of Stevie. Hendo couldn't lace Stevie's boots!
      Scotia
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14769: Nov 21, 2017 09:57:44 pm
      As a team - under intense pressure after conceding two crazy goals - I actually thought we defended pretty well in the main.

      The boss made the right subs for me in Bertie and Cou - one was a liability and one was a passenger at that point.

      Some things are just down to players making bad choices / mistakes.
      Alfie2510
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14770: Nov 21, 2017 10:04:18 pm
      The problem according to Jürgen was we “stopped playing football” second half
      No Jürgen it’s your team cannot defend or stand up to any kind of pressure.
      green_bear
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14771: Nov 21, 2017 10:17:33 pm
      The problem according to Jürgen was we “stopped playing football” second half
      No Jürgen it’s your team cannot defend or stand up to any kind of pressure.

      Well no sh*t Jürgen, we all saw that. The question is, why does it keep happening and what's your solution?
      fields of anny rd
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14772: Nov 21, 2017 10:31:17 pm
      Yeah at 3-0 the game is done and dusted and you can stop playing football. The games won.

      The advantage to being 3-0 up is that you can wind the game down and you don't have to flood playwrs forward.

      The problem is that we can't keep the ball, we can't defend when under the pump and we are still crap at defending set plays.

      Free kick, penalty, Corner. The basics let us down again even though we were overwhelmed in the second half.
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14773: Nov 21, 2017 10:37:02 pm

      Some things are just down to players making bad choices / mistakes.

      ...who keep making those same bad choices and mistakes.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14774: Nov 21, 2017 11:04:49 pm
      As a team - under intense pressure after conceding two crazy goals - I actually thought we defended pretty well in the main.

      The boss made the right subs for me in Bertie and Cou - one was a liability and one was a passenger at that point.

      Some things are just down to players making bad choices / mistakes.

      Coutinho wanted F***ing for that ball back to Moreno that led to the second, yeah Moreno was definitely at blame for the first, but Phil needs to share his part of the blame for that second goal.
      what-a-hit-son
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14775: Nov 21, 2017 11:06:49 pm
      Coutinho wanted f**king for that ball back to Moreno that led to the second, yeah Moreno was definitely at blame for the first, but Phil needs to share his part of the blame for that second goal.

      Was wanting to say the same but didn't want to look as if I was blindly defending Alby.
      Scotia
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14776: Nov 21, 2017 11:09:28 pm
      Coutinho wanted f**king for that ball back to Moreno that led to the second, yeah Moreno was definitely at blame for the first, but Phil needs to share his part of the blame for that second goal.

      Was wanting to say the same but didn't want to look as if I was blindly defending Alby.

      Phil’s passing was wasteful and indulgent throughout the night tbh. Ball needed keeping away from Bertie for 15 mins to let him recover.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14777: Nov 21, 2017 11:10:30 pm
      Was wanting to say the same but didn't want to look as if I was blindly defending Alby.


      Yeah Albie wasn't helped by that awful ball from Phil, Coutinho just needed to hoof that away and relieve the pressure.
      5timesacharm
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14778: Nov 21, 2017 11:20:53 pm

      Yeah Albie wasn't helped by that awful ball from Phil, Coutinho just needed to hoof that away and relieve the pressure.

      That's one of my biggest complaints with this side. Is it too much to ask them to stick their bloody foot through the ball and hoof it as far away from our goal as they possibly can so they can reorganise themselves at the back? It's basic, school boy defending that they seem incapable of doing. There's a time for passing the ball out from the back and a time for getting the F**k rid and this side needs to learn when each is appropriate.
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14779: Nov 21, 2017 11:23:16 pm
      Coutinho wanted f**king for that ball back to Moreno that led to the second, yeah Moreno was definitely at blame for the first, but Phil needs to share his part of the blame for that second goal.

      Fair point about the Coutinho ball. To me it looked like a simple ball to control but on replay it's just a dumb thing to do.
      GERNS
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14780: Nov 21, 2017 11:50:54 pm
      That's one of my biggest complaints with this side. Is it too much to ask them to stick their bloody foot through the ball and hoof it as far away from our goal as they possibly can so they can reorganise themselves at the back? It's basic, school boy defending that they seem incapable of doing. There's a time for passing the ball out from the back and a time for getting the f**k rid and this side needs to learn when each is appropriate.

      Know what you mean 5 times, but when the ball was laced, it just came straight back at us. There has to be a middle ground where you can keep possession without racing forwards at 100mph. There has to be a calmer solution, like give the ball to the player in the most space. He has time to compose himself, spot a pass and execute it. We seem to hammer the ball forward, or pass it to often, too close to each other, then get crowded out.
      At half time, there should have been a major change in strategy. It was clear they were gonna come out all guns blazing, and we tried to defend against that with flair players, speed merchants, strikers, and lightweights. (Hendo) We needed something more solid, Can and Milner could have offered that in the middle. but milner was used at left back for moreno. That didn't stop us being overrun in mid field.
      Dadorious
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14781: Nov 21, 2017 11:52:35 pm
      Coutinho wanted f**king for that ball back to Moreno that led to the second, yeah Moreno was definitely at blame for the first, but Phil needs to share his part of the blame for that second goal.
      I would also point the finger at Mane for the first had he not been so lax about tracking his man Moreno doesn't need to come across and commit the foul.
      5timesacharm
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14782: Nov 22, 2017 12:04:11 am
      Know what you mean 5 times, but when the ball was laced, it just came straight back at us. There has to be a middle ground where you can keep possession without racing forwards at 100mph. There has to be a calmer solution, like give the ball to the player in the most space. He has time to compose himself, spot a pass and execute it. We seem to hammer the ball forward, or pass it to often, too close to each other, then get crowded out.
      At half time, there should have been a major change in strategy. It was clear they were gonna come out all guns blazing, and we tried to defend against that with flair players, speed merchants, strikers, and lightweights. (Hendo) We needed something more solid, Can and Milner could have offered that in the middle. but milner was used at left back for moreno. That didn't stop us being overrun in mid field.

      It might do but by the time it does they've organised their defensive lines again and then you're able to cope with the next attack better. Trying to pass the ball out from the back whilst you're disorganised and under the cosh is precisely why we end up playing ourselves into trouble time and again. I'm not blaming just the defence because it was a collective undoing tonight but defending starts at the back and it starts with the basics.
      RedWilly
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14783: Nov 22, 2017 06:51:07 am
      First time I’m reslly questioning him. We can’t keep making the same errors over and over and him not change seemingly anything about our approach or tactics.

      It’s getting absolutely ridiculous.
      Scottbot
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14784: Nov 22, 2017 07:15:19 am
      We just have to accept that we are never going to see a team shut up shop, sit deep and defend. Jürgen' post match comments were less about the defending and more concerned about us 'stopping playing football'. I think that mentality carries over to the players. They don't really have the mentality to just defend, to be starved of the ball and simply be organised. It's not the Klopp way.
      Scotia
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14785: Nov 22, 2017 07:34:22 am
      We just have to accept that we are never going to see a team shut up shop, sit deep and defend. Jürgen' post match comments were less about the defending and more concerned about us 'stopping playing football'. I think that mentality carries over to the players. They don't really have the mentality to just defend, to be starved of the ball and simply be organised. It's not the Klopp way.

      You’re right Scott - the pursuit of VVD reinforces that.

      He’s a very good defender but (in my opinion) the boss wants him to move us up the pitch and get the deepest lying midfielder into midfield.

      At the moment we’re a man light in middle because we don’t move the ball out well enough. Lovren and Klavan can ping a pass but not actually exist in midfield. Matip can a bit more so but not enough to release the deepest midfielder.

      We played 100% for transition last night. We just did it much better in first half than second.......plus a couple of daft mistakes put us right under pressure.

      HScRed1
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14786: Nov 22, 2017 11:14:19 am
      We have all been wondering when the penny is going to drop for Klopp that playing such a attacking style, which admittedly we all like is going to take us no where without a Top class DM protecting the back 4.

      The Henderson experiment against good teams has shown its folly. His stats from last night were truly shocking considering we were under the cosh most of last night. It's no wonder they cut us open at will.
      In hindsight we were lucky to escape with a draw.

      Keita is coming next season hopefully to take the No 8 position to provide some well needed steel and guile in midfield.
      I really hope Klopp doesn't see Keita as our Kante it will be a huge waste of his talent.

      A big upgrade on Henderson alongside Keita and Lallana and we might be able to start dreaming of a midfield that the opposition can't bully and intimidate by simply pressing.
      heimdall
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14787: Nov 22, 2017 11:14:48 am
      The problem according to Jürgen was we “stopped playing football” second half
      No Jürgen it’s your team cannot defend or stand up to any kind of pressure.

      I think that's a bit unfair really, apart from Bertie gifting them 2 goals and that late equaliser gut punch, which can always happen in any game, I actually thought we defended quite well, even in the second half. As soon as Jürgen made th esubs I thought we got back into the game and could have easily got a few more goals ourselves, just wasn't to be and the equalizer felt inevitable on the night.
      The problem on this occasion was not Jürgen it was 100% Bertie and to a slightly lesser extent Jordan. I was actually very impressed with Jürgen making the quick substitutions, it shows that he to is learning and becoming more proactive, but I bet he is kicking himself this morning that he didn't make the changes at half time and just see out the second half, but on any other day it could have been a similar scoreline as to Maribor away.
      Alfie2510
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #14788: Nov 22, 2017 11:37:14 am
      I think that's a bit unfair really, apart from Bertie gifting them 2 goals and that late equaliser gut punch, which can always happen in any game, I actually thought we defended quite well, even in the second half. As soon as Jürgen made th esubs I thought we got back into the game and could have easily got a few more goals ourselves, just wasn't to be and the equalizer felt inevitable on the night.
      The problem on this occasion was not Jürgen it was 100% Bertie and to a slightly lesser extent Jordan. I was actually very impressed with Jürgen making the quick substitutions, it shows that he to is learning and becoming more proactive, but I bet he is kicking himself this morning that he didn't make the changes at half time and just see out the second half, but on any other day it could have been a similar scoreline as to Maribor away.


      You could have argued the Can sub could have came well before 3-2 and the Moreno one as well
      With this team we have seen time and time and time again (3 times against Sevilla in 18 months) it cannot absorb pressure. If it hadn't been Moreno wilting it would have been Lovern or Karius or Gomez (who is not a full back) or someone. No characters who will roll their sleeves up and get a hold of things but the fact that Henderson is being played as a DM or that Moreno is still at the club is on Klopp

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