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      Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager

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      tezmac
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15019: Dec 10, 2017 04:40:58 pm
      Rotation my arse he had to bring on his "rested players" and now has to play them against West Brom in the week, why not play your strongest team and if you get a comfatable lead take them off, frustrating
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15020: Dec 10, 2017 04:46:20 pm
      Wasn't too enamored with the substitutions but the fact we dominated and led at 1-0 (and should have been more) with the team he put out today meant that he did his job on that front and doesn't deserve criticism. They looked well drilled, patient, faultless up until one of our usual suspects threw a grenade into the works. If Lovren doesn't commit the error that any self respecting 'Premier League' defender would not do then we'd all be calling him a genius for getting us through this with plenty left still in the tank.

      I said in the match thread - great managers often straddle that line between genius and recklessness such is their trust and confidence in the tactics and teams they play. But if you have players like Lovren (or Mignolet) on the field you'll more often than not find yourself on the wrong side of that line. That is something Klopp will have to sort out sooner rather than later because these players are single handedly pushing Klopp over the wrong side of that line.
      RC9
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15021: Dec 10, 2017 04:50:17 pm
      Wasn't too enamored with the substitutions but the fact we dominated and led at 1-0 (and should have been more) with the team he put out today meant that he did his job on that front and doesn't deserve criticism. They looked well drilled, patient, faultless up until one of our usual suspects threw a grenade into the works. If Lovren doesn't commit the error that any self respecting 'Premier League' defender would not do then we'd all be calling him a genius for getting us through this with plenty left still in the tank.

      I said in the match thread - great managers often straddle that line between genius and recklessness such is their trust and confidence in the tactics and teams they play. But if you have players like Lovren (or Mignolet) on the field you'll more often than not find yourself on the wrong side of that line. That is something Klopp will have to sort out sooner rather than later because these players are single handedly pushing Klopp over the wrong side of that line.

      Don't quite agree, we may have dominated possession and been in control like that, but in the PL you know an 1-0 lead is never enough and the line up put out never looked like scoring a second, we barely had any shots on target.



      tezmac
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15022: Dec 10, 2017 05:09:14 pm
      Wasn't too enamored with the substitutions but the fact we dominated and led at 1-0 (and should have been more) with the team he put out today meant that he did his job on that front and doesn't deserve criticism. They looked well drilled, patient, faultless up until one of our usual suspects threw a grenade into the works. If Lovren doesn't commit the error that any self respecting 'Premier League' defender would not do then we'd all be calling him a genius for getting us through this with plenty left still in the tank.

      I said in the match thread - great managers often straddle that line between genius and recklessness such is their trust and confidence in the tactics and teams they play. But if you have players like Lovren (or Mignolet) on the field you'll more often than not find yourself on the wrong side of that line. That is something Klopp will have to sort out sooner rather than later because these players are single handedly pushing Klopp over the wrong side of that line.


       Dominate all you like it's about scoring and the result was 1-1, We had 3shots on target Everton had 2 so much for domination
      Aggerdoo
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15023: Dec 10, 2017 05:27:16 pm
      This is a worrying stat and Klopp needs to fix it.

      https://twitter.com/bet365/status/939890267938803713
      David Wright
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15024: Dec 10, 2017 05:29:57 pm
      Rotation my arse he had to bring on his "rested players" and now has to play them against West Brom in the week, why not play your strongest team and if you get a comfatable lead take them off, frustrating

      Fully agree !
      Rush
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15025: Dec 10, 2017 05:31:57 pm
      I said on 20 minutes I'm starting to get nervous. I could see it happening.

      I'm all for rotation and all that but Klopp needs to revise how he picks his battles. You don't rest Can, Coutinho, and Firmino against one of your bitterest rivals, only to have those players fresh - for WBA - at home. And you do not take off the leading premier league goalscorer when he looks the only real threat (Everton were terrified of him).

      Lovren messed up but really, we should have been out of sight by that time.
      Rush
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15026: Dec 10, 2017 05:33:32 pm
      It's like, two steps forward but always one step back, and most of the time those one steps back might have been easily avoided.
      green_bear
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15027: Dec 10, 2017 05:35:03 pm
      This season we have blown a one-goal lead against Watford, Newcastle, Chelsea, and now Everton (that's not counting Sevilla in the CL). Against Palace was the only game where we managed to protect a one-goal lead till the end. Without those dropped points we would have been in the second place right now instead of United.
      This to me is the biggest issue with Klopp - he needs to have a plan to see out those narrow wins. Seems to me that his only plan is to get the team to score more goals and when we failed to do that it came back to haunt us.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15028: Dec 10, 2017 05:35:40 pm
      I said on 20 minutes I'm starting to get nervous. I could see it happening.

      I'm all for rotation and all that but Klopp needs to revise how he picks his battles. You don't rest Can, Coutinho, and Firmino against one of your bitterest rivals, only to have those players fresh - for WBA - at home. And you do not take off the leading premier league goalscorer when he looks the only real threat (Everton were terrified of him).

      Lovren messed up but really, we should have been out of sight by that time.

      Mane messed up just as much as Lovren but I suppose we can blame Klopp for that also!
      green_bear
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15029: Dec 10, 2017 05:39:37 pm

      I also don't recall us getting many points from a losing a position either.
      Rush
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15030: Dec 10, 2017 05:49:33 pm
      Mane messed up just as much as Lovren but I suppose we can blame Klopp for that also!
      Where have I said I blame Lovren's push on Klopp? I questioned Klopp's selection for the Everton match
      RC9
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15031: Dec 10, 2017 05:50:17 pm

      Klopp can't be blamed though, this stat is obviously a reflection of Lovren and Mignolet and nothing to do with Klopps lack of effective game management.
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15032: Dec 10, 2017 05:56:32 pm
      Really lost on all this selection business. The team did brilliantly for 75 minutes. If we're going to criticise Klopp then criticise his subs but his eleven he put out today secured a lead, dominated and controlled possession. As he notes - SEVEN games in 21 days. Come on lads! Everything was going well until one silly mistake. He seems to accept that the Salah sub didn't work out well but I'd say that's the only thing he got wrong today. Still it didn't have to be a costly error if Lovren hadn't made a mistake.

      At the end of the day I continue to be so grateful that we have Jürgen Klopp in the dugout and they have Sam Allardyce.

      Class, elegance, vibrancy, charisma vs immoral, sleazy, perverted cuntery.

      The latter has only paved a way to relegation for Allardyce's previous teams who's absence from this league is something to be thankful for so let's not allow those Blueshite to forget what they have let themselves in for.

      Us? Well we can look forward to better days regardless of how annoying this result is.
      « Last Edit: Dec 10, 2017 06:04:54 pm by Frankly, Mr Shankly »
      bigvYNWA
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15033: Dec 10, 2017 06:01:52 pm
      Really lost on all this selection business. The team did brilliantly for 75 minutes. If we're going to criticise Klopp then criticise his subs but his eleven he put out today secured a lead, dominated and controlled possession. As he notes - SEVEN games in 21 days. Come on lads! Everything was going well until one silly mistake. He seems to accept that the Salah sub didn't work out well but I'd say that's the only thing he got wrong today. Still it didn't have to be a costly error if Lovren hadn't made a mistake.

      At the end of the day I continue to be so grateful that we have Jürgen Klopp in the dugout and they have Sam Allardyce.

      Class, elegance, vibrancy, charisma vs immoral, sleazy, perverted cuntery.

      The latter has only paved a way to relegation for Allardyce's previous teams who's absence from this league is something to be thankful for so let's not forget those Blueshite what they have let themselves in for.

      Us? Well we can look forward to better days regardless of how annoying this result is.

      This well sums up my thoughts. Hindsight is 20/20, but we were bossing the F**k out of that game and if not for some ineptitude (PASS THE BALL SADIO) in front of goal and a soft pen, we win comfortably. Sometimes you just have sh*t luck. But I still feel we are on the right track, and will make those bad luck moments less the more we improve.
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15034: Dec 10, 2017 06:04:11 pm
      This well sums up my thoughts. Hindsight is 20/20, but we were bossing the f**k out of that game and if not for some ineptitude (PASS THE BALL SADIO) in front of goal and a soft pen, we win comfortably. Sometimes you just have sh*t luck. But I still feel we are on the right track, and will make those bad luck moments less the more we improve.

      For sure. Pressure is on against West Brom on Wednesday but if we can win that one then it soothes this result considerably.
      Arab Scouse
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15035: Dec 10, 2017 06:07:57 pm
      Really lost on all this selection business. The team did brilliantly for 75 minutes. If we're going to criticise Klopp then criticise his subs but his eleven he put out today secured a lead, dominated and controlled possession. As he notes - SEVEN games in 21 days. Come on lads! Everything was going well until one silly mistake. He seems to accept that the Salah sub didn't work out well but I'd say that's the only thing he got wrong today. Still it didn't have to be a costly error if Lovren hadn't made a mistake.

      At the end of the day I continue to be so grateful that we have Jürgen Klopp in the dugout and they have Sam Allardyce.

      Class, elegance, vibrancy, charisma vs immoral, sleazy, perverted cuntery.

      The latter has only paved a way to relegation for Allardyce's previous teams who's absence from this league is something to be thankful for so let's not allow those Blueshite to forget what they have let themselves in for.

      Us? Well we can look forward to better days regardless of how annoying this result is.

      Agreed mate,

      It's not like we didn't dominate the game or Everton were all over us.

      The bitters were lucky and we weren't lucky with some of our decisions today, individual errors cost us not the lineup.
      heimdall
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15036: Dec 10, 2017 06:36:42 pm
      Klopp can't be blamed though, this stat is obviously a reflection of Lovren and Mignolet and nothing to do with Klopps lack of effective game management.

      And who picks Lovren and Mignolet to start?
      RC9
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15037: Dec 10, 2017 06:38:07 pm
      And who picks Lovren and Mignolet to start?

      ;D. Sorry should have inserted a footnote explaining my sarcasm.

      Rush
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15038: Dec 10, 2017 06:48:58 pm
      I don't agree with the line of reasoning that there was nothing wrong with the selection because we dominated them. It's been proven time and again it doesn't win you matches. Well, for me it has. I remember Rodgers' famous line about a team that has the most possession wins 8 out of 10 times - or something like that. Not anymore.

      Yes, we dominated Everton and with our best players on the bench, but we hardly tested Pickford. After 20 minutes you could see Sam had pretty much snuffed out our danger from wide positions and we were forced to go central and even though Salah did cut in to score a great goal, I think having Couts and Bobby playing centrally would have helped a lot. Plus, if Can is fit, surely he has to start ahead of Henderson? So before 20 minutes we had the ball and were an attacking threat but after about 20 minutes - we had the ball and that was it.

      I'm not saying we definitely would have won if Can, Couts, and Bobby had started, but we'd have been more creative. It would have been the same team (Moreno aside) with the same chemistry that put 7 passed Spartak Moscow and 5 past Brighton, but to drop those players for a game against Everton, I just don't get it. Rest them against WBA. And don't take off Salah who is red hot right now, and keep Mane on - who had a below average game.

      As an aside, I think it's time now that we move Gomez to the centre and stick Alexander out on the right. Klavan I thought had a very good game so perhaps that's something the boss can look at. For me it hit me why Lovren does the things he does, his nerve goes. That's a pretty big problem when you're a central defender.

      All that said, I don't think I've ever seen such a poor display from a visiting Everton side.

      Anyway, just how I saw things.
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15039: Dec 10, 2017 07:01:14 pm
      See what he was trying to do... A lot of games coming thick and fast, But I am a great believer in starting your strongest 11, securing a two or three goal lead then resting players... Poor decision making on that front today Jürgen 
      Pippen
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15040: Dec 10, 2017 07:06:49 pm
      The team did brilliantly for 75 minutes.

      On what planet do you live? When the game was tied we had our usual 120% ball possession with zip outcome. Only thx to a very individual performance by Salah we get our goal. We need to be able to create more havoc in their box, period. For two seasons we struggle to take bus parking teams apart. And that is on Jürgen.

      Eddieo
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #15041: Dec 10, 2017 07:19:26 pm
      Really lost on all this selection business. The team did brilliantly for 75 minutes. If we're going to criticise Klopp then criticise his subs but his eleven he put out today secured a lead, dominated and controlled possession. As he notes - SEVEN games in 21 days. Come on lads! Everything was going well until one silly mistake. He seems to accept that the Salah sub didn't work out well but I'd say that's the only thing he got wrong today. Still it didn't have to be a costly error if Lovren hadn't made a mistake.

      At the end of the day I continue to be so grateful that we have Jürgen Klopp in the dugout and they have Sam Allardyce.

      Class, elegance, vibrancy, charisma vs immoral, sleazy, perverted cuntery.

      The latter has only paved a way to relegation for Allardyce's previous teams who's absence from this league is something to be thankful for so let's not allow those Blueshite to forget what they have let themselves in for.

      Us? Well we can look forward to better days regardless of how annoying this result is.

      We had 79% of the position today, 23 shots against 3 and 12 corners against 1.

      We bossed the game and should of won but today was one of those games

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