Captain and Vice Captain.

People who think VC is not important is really a joke.

Yeah, i mean , just think back to all those great teams through history that won everything. Yet none of them had a VC. How did they manage without such an important cog in their winning machine?
IT IS AN IRRELEVANT BAUBLE , nothing more.

Communication / Organisation:

When the sh*t hits the fan who are the loudest and most clear voices on the pitch, do heads drop or teeth grit? Who out there gathers the morale of the lads from the floor and says we've took a blow but let's bounce back? Judging by how many times we concede a second goal when we've conceded one it would suggest that whoever is/was in charge of that isn't exactly succeeding.

Neither Hyppia nor Souness embodied those qualities but were fantastic Captains. Gerrard's head went down more often than not last season when we threw away a lead. This is what you want from a Captain and the problem with threads like these; we don't know what Klopp wants in a Captain. I don't disagree with you that Henderson isn't Captain material but then again, who is? That's the issue as I see it. The Captain role is less important than  having actual leaders on the football field which we simply lack. We had that until recently but now they've all either retired or moved on to other clubs. If nothing else it was the fatalist flaw in the policy of unproven youth talent.

Neither Hyppia nor Souness embodied those qualities but were fantastic Captains. Gerrard's head went down more often than not last season when we threw away a lead. This is what you want from a Captain and the problem with threads like these; we don't know what Klopp wants in a Captain. I don't disagree with you that Henderson isn't Captain material but then again, who is? That's the issue as I see it. The Captain role is less important than  having actual leaders on the football field which we simply lack. We had that until recently but now they've all either retired or moved on to other clubs. If nothing else it was the fatalist flaw in the policy of unproven youth talent.

Sorry mate , but both HYPPIA and SOUNESS embodied those qualities in spades, and neither needed to grow into that mould. They had it in them from the start.
By the way. Check your history and find me a great team that did not have a great captain. A player that was admired ( if not liked ) by even opposition fans and opposing players.

Ah who cares anyway, Hendo will probably keep the armband until the boss goes out and buys Mat Hummels and then give him it.

Okay I'm dreaming slightly here!!

Henderson has no leadership qualities?
Costa fu**ed off pretty quick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jepGwaBpQrU

Sorry mate , but both HYPPIA and SOUNESS embodied those qualities in spades, and neither needed to grow into that mould. They had it in them from the start.
By the way. Check your history and find me a great team that did not have a great captain. A player that was admired ( if not liked ) by even opposition fans and opposing players.

They really didn't and I never said they were never liked or admired. They had a quiet authority about them as opposed to Carragher's bawling and shouting at people. Different styles of Leadership, both equally as effective as each other.

Henderson has no leadership qualities?
Costa fu**ed off pretty quick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jepGwaBpQrU

Squaring up to someone and mouthing off at them doesn't make you an effective Captain.

In the summer I do think Hendo and Milner were the obvious choices. Lucas was on his way out it seemed and there were rumours Sakho was off too (and he'd had a lot of injuries as well).

I think Jürgen will have a look at it next summer but not before.

Captain and VC two of the most over rated titles on a football pitch.

We need leaders all over the pitch who take responsibility and want to stand up and be counted.

Squaring up to someone and mouthing off at them doesn't make you an effective Captain.

I stated "leadership qualities", and standing up for your team mates is a leadership quality.

Please take the time to read what posts actually say rather than what you think they say.

We need leaders all over the pitch who take responsibility and want to stand up and be counted.

And that sums up why I'd never have Skrtel near the armband.

They really didn't and I never said they were never liked or admired. They had a quiet authority about them as opposed to Carragher's bawling and shouting at people. Different styles of Leadership, both equally as effective as each other.

Squaring up to someone and mouthing off at them doesn't make you an effective Captain.

I can remember us playing Villa away in '82 . We were winning 2-1 but under the cosh in the last 20 minutes. When a clearence by us found Rush onside and 20 yards inside the Villa half, Rushie ran on goal and as the keeper came out to meet him, Rushie hit a beautiful chip right over him into the net.
Now, as all the players ran over to Rush to congragtulate him, Souness jabbed a finger in his face and barked something at him. We later found out that Souness had told him " don't ever try and be f***in smart again , chipping the keeper with the game still undecided. Go round the keeper next time , take the easy option"
That is not quiet authority, it's a captain letting his men know in no uncertain terms that the team comes first.That is why he was a great captain.
A great captain, is a constant reminder to the team on the pitch, when the game is end to end  heat of the battle, of team orders and directives from the manager.

To say a captains role is overblown is, IMO, wrong.

I can remember us playing Villa away in '82 . We were winning 2-1 but under the cosh in the last 20 minutes. When a clearence by us found Rush onside and 20 yards inside the Villa half, Rushie ran on goal and as the keeper came out to meet him, Rushie hit a beautiful chip right over him into the net.
Now, as all the players ran over to Rush to congragtulate him, Souness jabbed a finger in his face and barked something at him. We later found out that Souness had told him " don't ever try and be f***in smart again , chipping the keeper with the game still undecided. Go round the keeper next time , take the easy option"
That is not quiet authority, it's a captain letting his men know in no uncertain terms that the team comes first.That is why he was a great captain.
A great captain, is a constant reminder to the team on the pitch, when the game is end to end  heat of the battle, of team orders and directives from the manager.

To say a captains role is overblown is, IMO, wrong.

And yet if Souness had made his authority known before that match, Rush daren't have tried chipping the 'keeper anyway.

So it's just six and two threes mate.

I stated "leadership qualities", and standing up for your team mates is a leadership quality.

Please take the time to read what posts actually say rather than what you think they say.

I did read, Swab, I disagree. Anyone can square up to someone to stand up for your mates, that makes you a good friend, not a good Captain. Leadership requires something different, something I do not feel anyone other than possibly Sakho has in our current squad has. That said, like Chats' says, in the Summer he was the obvious choice. The best of a bad bunch. Everyone else either didn't play enough or was too inexperienced.

To say a captains role is overblown is, IMO, wrong.

Please try read what I type. I didn't say the role was overblown, I said it was less important than Leadership on the pitch. Carragher wasn't Captain but was a Leader. Henderson is Captain but isn't a Leader (in mine and others opinion). Just because you carry the armband doesn't make you good at the role.

I did read, Swab, I disagree. Anyone can square up to someone to stand up for your mates, that makes you a good friend, not a good Captain. Leadership requires something different, something I do not feel anyone other than possibly Sakho has in our current squad. That said, like Chats' says, in the Summer he was the obvious choice. The best of a bad bunch. Everyone else either didn't play enough or was too inexperienced.

You seem to have a misplaced sense of what leadership actually is, or in your own words, not much idea at all.
I see many leadership qualities when I look at Henderson, with sticking up for his colleague being the least of them, and I think that after 40-odd years of watching it, learning it and using it myself, I have a pretty good idea about it.

No doubt your next "argument" to add to this will be that leadership and captains can only be bought by spunking money on big name players, and you'd be wrong about that in this instance as well.

The primary qualities a good leader should have are strength of character, self belief and a willingness to back themself in a situation.
Exactly the qualities I see in Henderson, and not only that but the constant talking to team mates, the encouragement, backing them all the time, having a quiet word when needed.

Just because you don't value his ability, enamoured as you are with "big names", it doesn't mean he isn't a leader or doesn't have the qualities necessary to be one.

And yet if Souness had made his authority known before that match, Rush daren't have tried chipping the 'keeper anyway.

So it's just six and two threes mate.

No, you don't get it at all. It's about getting the managers instructions onto the pitch. When Rush was clean through on the Villa goal , Sir Bob wasn't thinking "chip him Rushie " he was thinking " the keepers made a rash mistake by coming out of his box to early , and gifted you an easy goal by going around him "

Then Sir Bobs captain let Rush know the same thing without having to talk to his manager. This is what a great captain is all about. Not  six and two three's. If you want a great team , then you are gona need a great captain.

I bet this is what Jürgen  is already striving for. Henderson is a light year away from this.
 

You seem to have a misplaced sense of what leadership actually is, or in your own words, not much idea at all.
I see many leadership qualities when I look at Henderson, with sticking up for his colleague being the least of them, and I think that after 40-odd years of watching it, learning it and using it myself, I have a pretty good idea about it.

No doubt your next "argument" to add to this will be that leadership and captains can only be bought by spunking money on big name players, and you'd be wrong about that in this instance as well.

The primary qualities a good leader should have are strength of character, self belief and a willingness to back themself in a situation.
Exactly the qualities I see in Henderson, and not only that but the constant talking to team mates, the encouragement, backing them all the time, having a quiet word when needed.

Just because you don't value his ability, enamoured as you are with "big names", it doesn't mean he isn't a leader or doesn't have the qualities necessary to be one.

Touchy, aren't you? Anyway, I disagree with you, as do many others. It doesn't have to be any more than a difference of opinion. As for solving the issue, it's part and parcel of the problem with our over reliance upon statistics. How do you quantify Leadership qualities on a spreadsheet? Is there an Opta stat for 'Leadership' during a game? The way to solve it is the human touch, people going the games and watching the players play and deciding whether or not they have the qualities in Leadership the club wants.

In regards to big name players, I've repeatedly said the issue I have is one of lack of experience, not one of lack of big names. Shopping at Southampton is fine if your ambitions are mid table but if you want to be in the Champions League, we should at least be recruiting some players with Champions League experience. I said this in the Summer after 13/14 season. Last years campaign proved me right.

Touchy, aren't you? Anyway, I disagree with you, as do many others. It doesn't have to be any more than a difference of opinion. As for solving the issue, it's part and parcel of the problem with our over reliance upon statistics. How do you quantify Leadership qualities on a spreadsheet? Is there an Opta stat for 'Leadership' during a game? The way to solve it is the human touch, people going the games and watching the players play and deciding whether or not they have the qualities in Leadership the club wants.

In regards to big name players, I've repeatedly said the issue I have is one of lack of experience, not one of lack of big names. Shopping at Southampton is fine if your ambitions are mid table but if you want to be in the Champions League, we should at least be recruiting some players with Champions League experience. I said this in the Summer after 13/14 season. Last years campaign proved me right.

Not touchy at all, and just because you write it on the internet, doesn't make it true.

We also don't Over rely" on statistics, this is another myth that idiots propagate.

Leadership functions and qualities are easily quantifiable, and are easily spotted if you know what to look for.
They are not dependent on experience, and can't easily be learned.
I hesitate to say it's either something you have or don't have, but considering Henderson has captained his country at every level except senior level (and it's only a matter of time before he does) I'm confidant my assessment is spot on.

In regards to big name players, I cannot and will not value anything you say after you posted this little gem.

Hey, time to wake up Swab. It's 2015, not 1975. Players like Rush, Keegan and Aldridge would never be talented enough to make it in to top flight teams by today's standards because by today's standards the gap between lower and top flight divisions has never been wider. They'd not be as talented as they where then in comparison to their peers. Ings is the type of player you buy if you have a team like City or Chelsea, brimming with talent and the money to bring in established players. When you have them you can afford to take the chance on a player coming from a relegated team who possibly, maybe, perhaps has an outside chance of being developed in to star material. We don't, we don't have near enough experience or quality in the side and last year we finished exactly were we should given the side we have.

You want to finish in the top four? Want titles, win trophies? F**k sacking the f**king manager, get some decent f**king players in the team and then we'll start winning sh*t. Fans took the piss out of Arsenal for years but back to back FA Cups after signing 'Stars' in the last two Summers has proven the value of such a strategy. It gave their club a massive lift - fans and players alike. This wasn't achieved by buying players like Ings, it was achieved by buying players like Sanchez. World of difference.

Players "like" Rush, Keegan, Aldridge, which is basically every good player to ever play for us, because they all have the same defining attributes.
You come out with that and then expect to be taken seriously?

Not to mention every recent transfer window has seen you throwing a F***ing hissy fit every time we haven't signed Reus or (insert current flavour of the month).

Not touchy at all, and just because you write it on the internet, doesn't make it true.

We also don't Over rely" on statistics, this is another myth that idiots propagate.

Leadership functions and qualities are easily quantifiable, and are easily spotted if you know what to look for.
They are not dependent on experience, and can't easily be learned.
I hesitate to say it's either something you have or don't have, but considering Henderson has captained his country at every level except senior level (and it's only a matter of time before he does) I'm confidant my assessment is spot on.

In regards to big name players, I cannot and will not value anything you say after you posted this little gem.
Players "like" Rush, Keegan, Aldridge, which is basically every good player to ever play for us, because they all have the same defining attributes.
You come out with that and then expect to be taken seriously?

Not to mention every recent transfer window has seen you throwing a f**king hissy fit every time we haven't signed Reus or (insert current flavour of the month).

Got to be honest .5 times post you quoted is the single , biggest load of sh*te i have ever read . Aldridge, rush and keegan not being up to todays standards?  Ha ha ha ha ha
He must be 14 yrs old.

Not touchy at all, and just because you write it on the internet, doesn't make it true.

It's an opinion. One others share with me. I don't understand why you're getting upset about my having a different opinion to you. That's why we have a forum. To share differing opinions.

As for the other, don't remember writing that but clearly clumsy language used in it. Talented enough? Clearly. Suited for it? No. Fit enough for it? No. But comparing players from different eras is always problematic because clearly if they were around now they would be suited and fit enough for it. Like I said, clumsy language but I stand by the point. Players in the Premiership are vastly more talented than their Championship counterparts. It's a far greater gulf in difference than between players in the old First and Second divisions and if you disagree, well fair enough. This is the place for opinions, after all. Even if you don't like them differing from yours

Got to be honest .5 times post you quoted is the single , biggest load of sh*te i have ever read . Aldridge, rush and keegan not being up to todays standards?  Ha ha ha ha ha
He must be 14 yrs old.

Aldo might be a bit slow for todays game but both Keegan and Rush would have excelled today imagine them in this side they would fit right in and improve it beyond recognition

Aldo might be a bit slow for todays game but both Keegan and Rush would have excelled today imagine them in this side they would fit right in and improve it beyond recognition

Like I said, what's written wasn't what I meant. Nonetheless, pulling a single line out of a reply to a post I wrote months ago in an attempt to embarrass me because I disagree with his opinion is rather amusing.

Like I said, what's written wasn't what I meant. Nonetheless, pulling a single line out of a reply to a post I wrote months ago in an attempt to embarrass me because I disagree with his opinion is rather amusing.

Fair dinkum

It's an opinion. One others share with me. I don't understand why you're getting upset about my having a different opinion to you. That's why we have a forum. To share differing opinions.

As for the other, don't remember writing that but clearly clumsy language used in it. Talented enough? Clearly. Suited for it? No. Fit enough for it? No. But comparing players from different eras is always problematic because clearly if they were around now they would be suited and fit enough for it. Like I said, clumsy language but I stand by the point. Players in the Premiership are vastly more talented than their Championship counterparts. It's a far greater gulf in difference than between players in the old First and Second divisions and if you disagree, well fair enough. This is the place for opinions, after all. Even if you don't like them differing from yours

I have no idea why people do this internet thing of saying other people are "upset" or "touchy" and it's pretty boring, not to mention puerile.

That aside, you now fall back onto "it's just my opinion" and "it's a forum" etc etc when someone disagrees with your opinion, but you think it's perfectly acceptable to junk other peoples opinions, not to mention disregarding a point and changing words.
Double standards much?

In turn, it was this which led me to post why I don't value your opinion, and the truth is it's not the first outlandish and frankly stupid statement you've made, which was not opinion as you stated unequivocally that "olde tyme players" as you seem to see them are not a patch on their modern counterparts, which is absolute garbage.
It wasn't taken out of context, the language used was clear, and you actually stuck to that statement and indeed tried to build an argument around it to fit your fantasy that we should only buy "big names".

So, nothing to embarrass you, and if anything you did it to yourself by posting something so ridiculous, and again, I posted it as an example of why I place no value on your posts or "opinions", and if you hadn't chosen to try and twist what I was saying I would never have engaged with you in the first place.

Leadership qualities were the point I was making, not who should be captain.
You'd do well to address points made, rather than trying to change what someone has said to suit your own purposes.