West Ham 2-0 Liverpool: In game and post match debate

This commentator is a biased c**t ...F**k u c**t!

Reading this made me laugh

on the first goal...yes Moreno needs F***ing for lying on the floor yes Couthino just ran behind his man then stopped yes Lucas could have done better but when a ball comes into a 6 yard area with few players in it is it too much to ask for a goal keeper to command his area.

That's a very niche thing, I think his touch is rough, his selection of passes is cowardly, I've seen nothing to make me think he's special. I'm being honest and hopefully not mean. The thing is, I don't even think he'll settle in and become great.
Personally I don't care if a forward player has great defensive stats, they try but they don't do the job in the part of the pitch that they were employed to make count.
Watching his youtubes, I wasn't thinking oh, I can't wait for him to come here and defend from higher up the pitch. I'm sure you get what I'm saying and I'm in no way making fun of your answer.

Totally understand your point and you would never choose an attacker for his defensive stats, that much is obvious. When he produces attacking displays like he had at Hoffenheim, when for a long time he was the best player in the bundesliga judged mostly on only his attacking displays then we can appreciate his defensive stats as massive bonus.

In a system like Klopp wants the defensive stats will prove to be an immense bonus but of course he has to get back to doing what he is primarily in the side for and that's creating and scoring goals. You say his touch is rough, for us it has looked poor I agree, many times his little lay offs have the whole team having to run back and it's strange to see because this isn't what I was used to. I have seen him finish goals with fantastic composure and his passing has shown to be incisive and well weighted in the past, hence why I possibly have more confidence than most.

What gives much more encouragement than anything is he doesn't go hiding, he puts the effort in, he makes a mistake and he shows right away for it again. That will mean in my opinion that he'll work through this and he will adapt. There's plenty of places to hide on a football pitch, just watch our players some of them are experts at it but Firmino isn't one of them and I commend him for that, I also have much more patience for someone who fails but tries to correct their mistakes, who looks angry with themselves for letting the side down yet still responds to the boss in the appropriate way.

May turn out looking a fool but I think next year he'll be one of our best players.

I think they are slowly breaking me mate and after watching Jürgen the other night I think he may feel the same.

Problem is we're better than this result I am convinced of that but I think it might even be more a mental issue than a football issue with some of out players.

I think the problem is that we can win a football match, but if the game turns physical we don't have the characters to fight. We need a couple of players that don't wilt, don't back down and will impose their will on the opposition. A Souness, Gerrard, Smith... or maybe this guy:-



 

I think  one problem we have is that we have players who are clearly not on the same wave length never mind having the same ability. Is it language I don't think so its just that we have Couthino who is bright and lively and then we have Benteke who erm  isn't. Maybe they just cant play together. the best I can think of is going 4 3 3 with Couthino and Lallana each side of Firmino. Lucas,Hendo,Can and Milner making a combination of the other three.  We just haven't got 11 players who can perform consistently at the required level

That is the biggest load of bullshit ever quoted in the history of quotes. Since when has any Football team in the game's entire history won anything going through a season grinding out 0-0 draws?

Nobody said you win things with 0-0 draws. The point was if you don't have a good defence, you're going to struggle to win titles

Football is a simple sport. You win your game by scoring more goals than the side you're playing. You build successful teams from the front, not the back. We lack the ability to score. When we concede we can't get back into the game because we can't score. When a team shuts up shop, we can't win the game because we can't score.

So don't concede. I also believe you build a team from the back first not the front. As they say, if you can't win games the next best thing is don't lose them.

Our goal difference is -2 and we're languishing in 8th place pending results of other games today.

Exactly. We've scored 22 goals but let in 24 goals. You can win titles winning 1-0 but you don't win them winning 5-3 and 6-3 because it means you've obviously got a problem in defence and you'll get found out.

All our problems start and finish by our inability to score. Not our inability to defend.

I think our problem is we're not scoring and we're conceding, but that's just detail. Thing is, we once one the league title on the strength of a defence that only conceded 18 goals a 42 game season. Chelsea won the league on the strength of conceding only 16 goals in a 38 league season. We failed to win the league with Suarez who scored 31 goals on his own, and despite us scoring 101 goals. Why? Because we let in 51.

3-5 away to Stoke, 3-6 away to Cardiff. We lost that league due to our inability to defend not because we couldn't score. We were scoring for fun but we were also leaking goals for fun too. I remember Newcastle Utd under Kevin Keegan. A really exciting team to watch, they played attacking football and scored a good few goals as a result. They won nothng though, because they didn't have much of a defence. And that was in a period when George Graham was at Arsenal, they were called boring, but they also won the odd title here and there.

At this same stage of the 2013/14 season we had conceded four more goals than we have now but sat in 4th place because we'd scored thirty three more goals. We came second that season having conceded less goals than last season were we finished 6th. Lack of goals is our problem and it needs fixing now.

We conceded 51 goals that's why we lost the league title.

I'm not saying you don't need to score goals mate, obviously you do. I'm just saying you need a good defence too. Because if you don't have one, then the other team who also scores lots of goals will beat you all the time because they have a better defence than you. In this example, that was Man City a few seasons ago.

I think almost anyone would tell you we lost that title due to our leaky defence. The Italians had a lot of club success on the back of 1-0 wins during the 80s and 90s and I think they also won a world cup too with the same mentality. Not sure of the exact details but the sentiments are correct.

what is really pissing me off these days is that you can tell within the first 5 or 10 mins what sort of day we are in for and today it was clear we had some problems with attitude

We can't expect to score goals when we only have a lumpy Benteke inside the box while the rest ball watch outside the box. Or when they are inside the box, at the wrong place at the wrong time.

We can't expect to score goals when we only have a lumpy Benteke inside the box while the rest ball watch outside the box. Or when they are inside the box, at the wrong place at the wrong time.

I made a point of watching him in the box and he simply doesn't know what to do he confuses himself

Benteke won 14% of his aerial duals in the first half. Not sure what the stats were for the second half.

I'd rather play without a recognised striker than have benteke in the team.

Totally understand your point and you would never choose an attacker for his defensive stats, that much is obvious. When he produces attacking displays like he had at Hoffenheim, when for a long time he was the best player in the bundesliga judged mostly on only his attacking displays then we can appreciate his defensive stats as massive bonus.

In a system like Klopp wants the defensive stats will prove to be an immense bonus but of course he has to get back to doing what he is primarily in the side for and that's creating and scoring goals. You say his touch is rough, for us it has looked poor I agree, many times his little lay offs have the whole team having to run back and it's strange to see because this isn't what I was used to. I have seen him finish goals with fantastic composure and his passing has shown to be incisive and well weighted in the past, hence why I possibly have more confidence than most.

What gives much more encouragement than anything is he doesn't go hiding, he puts the effort in, he makes a mistake and he shows right away for it again. That will mean in my opinion that he'll work through this and he will adapt. There's plenty of places to hide on a football pitch, just watch our players some of them are experts at it but Firmino isn't one of them and I commend him for that, I also have much more patience for someone who fails but tries to correct their mistakes, who looks angry with themselves for letting the side down yet still responds to the boss in the appropriate way.

May turn out looking a fool but I think next year he'll be one of our best players.

I hope so, words of confidence, He doesn't look fast or anything though, lets see how it goes. Let him settle, let the manager choose what team he likes. Strange bunch of players we've got at the moment though. Pretty strong in theory but, injuries and under performing. 2016 should be fun then.

Didn't see the game but sounds like we played awful . Strange how come january transfer time when you would think that players could be shipped out they would try to impress whether they stay or go.
been thinking for a while that we have no general, no player that the others look to.
Can could be that man but not for now .

In the absence of Ings, Studge and Origi, I would play Firmino instead of Benteke. At least he is a footballer, and puts himself about.

Benteke is just a lazy, waste of space.

Benteke won 14% of his aerial duals in the first half. Not sure what the stats were for the second half.

I'd rather play without a recognised striker than have benteke in the team.

we might actually play better with 10 men and that's not a joke its  a frightening fact that club can spend £32mil only to completely go against the history of the club and its pass and move philosophy and its not the first time is it Benteke is now the 4th big lump of a centre forward we have bought all of his predecessors failed too

we might actually play better with 10 men and that's not a joke its  a frightening fact that club can spend £32mil only to completely go against the history of the club and its pass and move philosophy and its not the first time is it Benteke is now the 4th big lump of a centre forward we have bought all of his predecessors failed too

I agree and you just know once he goes he will be one of those players who comes back to haunt us.

We hate playing against benteke and those sort of players but we hate having them in our team too.

The problem now is benteke will have to be dropped so his confidence will be even lower and so his performances will get worse rather than better. lots of people said that JH and his gang were smart cookies well maybe they could explain how we have spunked hundreds of millions on this squad and this is the best we can put out. You could get a better transfer committee  assembled from lads in the Arkles and they would be cheaper

I still can't understand the fact that the two most expensive players in the club's history are both players who don't suit our desired style of play. How does that happen?

£77 millions worth.
That buys a few bananas.

£77 millions worth.
That buys a few bananas.

More bananas than we got goals or performance that's for sure.

Similar things have been eluded to in this thread but I'll say it again anyway the Man City, Chelsea and even LC game at Southampton weren't flukes, this squad that was put together by Rodgers whilst still lacking quality in certain area's are still good enough to produce better than that drivel today.
Whenever we come up against a team that are up for a physical battle we have too many players who don't want to know, I can take being outplayed but not be out enthused. I absolutely s**t it today when I saw Andy Carroll starting I knew he'd score.
It's made all the worse knowing that this season was open not just for top four but for winning it and we can't get anywhere near.
Benteke seems no better than Balotelli at the moment despite being around double the price. We are paying the price for a disastrous transfer window after 13/14 when all the Suarez money and more got squandered on average players.

I think the problem is that we can win a football match, but if the game turns physical we don't have the characters to fight. We need a couple of players that don't wilt, don't back down and will impose their will on the opposition. A Souness, Gerrard, Smith... or maybe this guy:-



 

Or Mascher .  We could pay his tax fine out of the money we waste.

I grew up watching games with  Norman Hunter ,Billy Bremner,  Tommy Smith  and  Ron Harris .

They'd make your teeth grate when they tackled.


(Thats El Tel in the photo isnt it? Thought Bobby Smith to start but Terry Venables defo )

Didn't see the game but sounds like we played awful . Strange how come january transfer time when you would think that players could be shipped out they would try to impress whether they stay or go.
been thinking for a while that we have no general, no player that the others look to.
Can could be that man but not for now .

Can could become a key player. IF he's surrounded by quality that will allow him to shine. Without quality additions though he's going to flounder.

Utterly despondent, such a poor showing, long time since we had so many players, playing so poorly. Wasted so much money from the Suarez and Sterling transfers on what can only be described as a bag of sh*te, the whole team need a shaking, were do we go from here, not only were they inept, but they put in no effort, I can live with getting beat but surrendering is a different prospect, I think what also made it worse was the fact Fermino  needed subbing at half time and was allowed to carry on his slovenly attitude

On reflection, if this is our standard of performance with Benteke up top,
(which unfortunately it seems to be the only consistency we have) I'll not expect to win anything apart from the occasional game against the current relegation candidates. I'm gonna hold out for next season, and hope we don't plummet down the order too far before then.
Unless of course, we manage to ship in a couple of decent players in Jan, to raise the overall quality.