League Cup Final Liverpool 1:1 Man City (ET) 1:3 after penalties.

There's me thinking i'd save my 1000th post for the post match celebrations and here I am gutted, still licking my wounds and snarling at everyone in work today..
Two Mancs who I work with attempted to have a conversation about the game first thing this morning and I shot them down straight away..F**kin pair of pricks.. never came near me for the rest of the day..

My brief take ;
Lucas was awesome all afternoon.
Can cannot run, Fact.
Henderson & Milner are not our answer in midfield.
Origi is better than Benchteke, Fact.

The only highlight for me was how crazy it went in our living room when we scored.. The place went mental !!

I'm sure all you lot can tell a similar tale too when Coutinho smashed it home..

If only that header of Origi's had've gone a few inches to the left or right.. Bang ! Knockout punch that would've been..

So sad when we lose a final...

We'll get over it.. starting with a Karma win on Wednesday....

 

Debs It is not just about scoring goals remember Alonso was not a prolific goal score, it is as with Schweinsteiger more about picking out that right player and playing that pass, He may no longer have the legs to run non stop for ninety minutes, but then neither has Pirlo no supporter would mined getting him for £4-7m.... I feel it has more to do with, like Hernandez:  Schweinsteiger  being a Man Utd player or believing that we can sign someone like Kroos, Iniesta or Pogba

He was wc but I think all of our midfielders have been better this season as they've all scored more goals than him bar Lucas.  We have an abundance of midfielders who don't score enough goals but you feel he'd be better?  He's well past it mate, especially in this league.

Undoubtedly.... Think I had a similar argument when I suggested signing Tevez from Man Utd the year he joined City..... Someone said " he does not score enough" I pointed out "...... How many times has he won the ball back which has in turn lead to a goal?".... As I said Alonso was not a prolific goal scorer himself, He was bought to player those slide rule passes, which is the same reason Man Utd bought him and is the reason I advocated buying him

Lot of over-reaction here about our midfielders.

Hendo has been struggling for form since he came back from injury, but was playing well before that. A dip in form doesnt make him a sh*te player. Its bollocks to say he's just a running machine - he's made enough quality passes over recent months to show that he has that in him. Obviously he's not world class, but he's a good all round midfielder.

Can I thought had a pretty good game.

I hope our players stay off the internet cos it must be pretty demoralising when you put in a big effort and get nothing but slagged by 80% of online fans.
I'm not saying players shouldnt be criticised, but give a bit of credit where its due as well ffs.

What has he done this year? And comparing him to our midfield isn't necessarily proving anything.

Proves my main point, He is Better than what we currently have, and I would hazard a guest that if he became available Klopp would snap him up

Got to admit I'm still fuming about the pens.  Knew Lallana was going to miss it as soon as he misplaced the ball before putting it on the spot.  His arse had gone.  If Milner takes that second he scores and then they're under pressure in my view.  Never understood saving your 'best' taker for the fifth pen.  You've got to get to five in the first place.

Said the same thing, albeit I was talking of Lucas who in his eyes was never going to score.

Milner should have been first or second, the pressure would have been cranked up on them after they missed their first.

A F**k up by the manager and players that was IMO.

Your opinion, certainly not mine. I don't think Firmino had one of his better games by some distance but he was still the one who tried to link the attack the best, he tried to drop into the spaces and he certainly had some decent link up play with Coutinho.

Ran his socks off again and all this after playing game after game after game recently.

I like him, I think he's got a fantastic football brain, he sees the right pass and tries to execute it all the time. Granted it doesn't come off all the time but his decision making is far in advance of 90%+ players.

He will be a star next season, I've absolutely no doubt about it at all.

It's a very difficult role to try and be the connection between a non-existent midfield and the attack, but also be the attacker that does the most closing down and be the attacker that makes the most runs. As I've said before, quite often it feels like we have an extra player up there because Firmino links onto the 2nd phase of his own work so well, dragging defenders where they really don't want to go.

Put better players around him and he will not only bring out the best in him but also in them, a snip at £29m, not a doubt in my mind.

Sounds like Henderson, 'runs around a lot, works hard, put better players next to him and watch him go', yada yada yada.

Not overly impressed with him tbh.

The player is World Class, Tell me who we have in Midfield that comes close to offering what he can?? Well then...

Was world class, he isn't anymore. He's near on finished.

Debs It is not just about scoring goals remember Alonso was not a prolific goal score, it is as with Schweinsteiger more about picking out that right player and playing that pass, He may no longer have the legs to run non stop for ninety minutes, but then neither has Pirlo no supporter would mined getting him for £4-7m.... I feel it has more to do with, like Hernandez:  Schweinsteiger  being a Man Utd player or believing that we can sign someone like Kroos, Iniesta or Pogba

Undoubtedly.... Think I had a similar argument when I suggested signing Tevez from Man Utd the year he joined City..... Someone said " he does not score enough" I pointed out "...... How many times has he won the ball back which has in turn lead to a goal?".... As I said Alonso was not a prolific goal scorer himself, He was bought to player those slide rule passes, which is the same reason Man Utd bought him and is the reason I advocated buying him

If the pig hearder was so good why did Pep let him go??

I don't disagree with your point about Tevez but he wasn't past it when he went to City.

Hindsight is a marvelous thing mate, foresight is much harder to get right. 

Paisley had it in abundance, he got rid of plenty of players that in this day and age most on here would be going mental about losing but we all trusted him to do the right thing.  We need to get back to that, not keep taking aging, past it players let go by the top teams.

I'm sure there would have been plenty on here creaming themselves about getting the Sweiny but I'm also sure he'd be getting plenty of pelters now for not being good enough despite the cheap pricetag at the time.

Sounds like Henderson, 'runs around a lot, works hard, put better players next to him and watch him go', yada yada yada.

Not overly impressed with him tbh.

Not overly impressed with Firmino?

Really??

Really??

Proves my main point, He is Better than what we currently have, and I would hazard a guest that if he became available Klopp would snap him up

No you said he was world class then made a point about comparing him to what we have. So which is it? Because he isn't world class, nowhere close in fact. Is he better than what we have? Maybe but certainly up for debate.

Not overly impressed with Firmino?

Really??

Really??

I think it's perfectly understandable to be not overly impressed by Firmino. He's obviously a very talented footballer, but so was Aquilani, Ballotelli, Markovic and the like. In a few games this season Firmino has been brilliant (Arsenal at home springs to mind) but in a great many others he's been anonymous. I thought he was very poor yesterday, and recently his performances have been at best patchy.

He plays in nigh on every single match, and his job is to score goals or cause them to be scored. Given we've now scored ten goals in our last nine matches, (not including two lots of extra time) and six of those were against Aston Villa, I think it's natural for fans that ask questions of our offensive players, all of them.

Utterly bizarrely, when we don't score goals or make any chances though we tend to blame players who aren't even on the pitch. On the odd occasion we do actually make and take a chance, we then berate him further and say "and that's how you take a chance". You really couldn't make it up, if it isn't Benteke's fault that we can't score goals it's "that f****** idiot Rodgers". The players that are actually taking part in the games though are seemingly beyond any criticism, I just don't get it.

Luke maybe right and Firmino may step it up next season, we all hope he does. It's not being disloyal though to point out that he needs to, and significantly. His goals per minute ratio (not goals per game, that's a silly stat when players get only moments at the end of matches) must be absolutely eye watering. The assists chart which pertains to him wouldn't be exactly bursting at the seams with success either.

As for s always the case on here, some players get all the stick while others get all the praise. That's fair enough and I couldn't give a f*** either way, but we shouldn't raise our eyebrows too far when somebody points out theglaringly obvious. So far Firmino has been a disappointment, that is unless you measure attacking players by things other than goals and assists.

"Football is a game of opinions" ? Can't remember who made that famous and often used quote.
I'm in the Firmino camp myself.I fully agree that with better players (coming in the summer hopefully)he will really shine.I often watch him play a ball that (imo) the recipricant,just doesn't get.Suarez played balls like that too.You would see his (Suarez's)reaction at times like "wtf".?

Back to the match.Defenders,defend much better when they have confidence in the "fella" behind them.It is my opinion that they (our defenders)do NOT have the required confidence in Migs.Sorry ! I really hate negativity,but thats how I feel.I really hope Jürgen buys us a top top keeper in the summer.

Firmino has 6 goals and 6 assists in the league having had the same amount of time on the pitch as Coutinho 5 goals and 5 assists and Firmino is not a striker.

So they both must be sh*te........

Was world class, he isn't anymore. He's near on finished.

That's your opinion and I guess your entitled to it, as I am to mine

Firmino has 6 goals and 6 assists in the league having had the same amount of time on the pitch as Coutinho 5 goals and 5 assists and Firmino is not a striker.

So they both must be sh*te

Don't be silly, nobody is saying they are sh!te. What I am saying however is that those numbers aren't good enough (from either of them). Teams for whom the top scorers have half a dozen goals and the top assisters have half a dozen assists generally finish way down the league. That's not to say both can't do better because IMHO both can, it's simply to recognise that they'll need to if they are going to play regularly and we're going to do better. It's a very simple point really, I'm surprised that anybody could possibly dispute it to be honest.

Liverpool have got far far bigger problems than Coutinho and Firmino.

Liverpool have got far far bigger problems than Coutinho and Firmino.

Absolutely agree, we've got issues upon issues. The "debate" such as it is though was sparked by another poster saying they were "unconvinced" by Firmino so far, which raised a few eyebrows unsurprisingly. I say "unsurprisingly" both because Firmino has obvious talent, but also because he's established himself quickly in the "he shall not be criticised" camp.

My point in support of that poster is that I personally understand why anybody is "unconvinced" by the Brazillian (Firmino, not Coutinho). Yes he's obviously a good player, yes I agree that he'll improve significantly from what we've seen so far, and yes my suspicion is that what we paid for him is probably going to end up being a decent purchase. All that said though, despite a couple of excellent performances his output as a regular starter this season is nowhere near what we need if we're serious about winning things. In short, I think he will improve but he NEEDS to, it's hardly controversial I don't think.

If only there was another Xabi Alonso somewhere.

I'm still gutted we never got Christian Eriksen. Was watching the highlights of the Spuds game and some of the passes and his FK's in particular are what we are crying out for.

If the pig hearder was so good why did Pep let him go??

He wanted to leave so he would get "Regular First Team Football" so not to miss out on the Euros, much like Milner wanting first team football

I don't disagree with your point about Tevez but he wasn't past it when he went to City.

Hindsight is a marvelous thing mate, foresight is much harder to get right. 

I had the foresight to see what a wonderful signing Tevez would have been, just like buying Hernandez would have been, and Like Ronaldo Aarons would be, and  the damage Kenny would wreak on the club second time around, that it would set us back five years I said at the time due to his transfer policies...but i take your point

Paisley had it in abundance, he got rid of plenty of players that in this day and age most on here would be going mental about losing but we all trusted him to do the right thing.  We need to get back to that, not keep taking aging, past it players let go by the top teams.

In principle I totally agree with you but lets be honest, we are no longer the club we use to be, Players don't flock to sign for us, teams like Utd,Chelsea,City, Arsenal, Spurs have more of a pull factor than Liverpool. You can call us a "Big" Club till the cows come home, Players no longer see us that way; which in the end is what counts... We are not minnows, but we are large fish swimming with Sharks.... So we have to start somewhere, and where we should start is be replacing mediocrity, with above average Players,Above average with Quality, Quality with Classy player etc, till we have World Class players

I'm sure there would have been plenty on here creaming themselves about getting the Sweiny but I'm also sure he'd be getting plenty of pelters now for not being good enough despite the cheap pricetag at the time.

That maybe true but I remember no so long ago one Xabi Alonso being bitterly complained about by the Liverpool faithfully before coming good, and besides how poor was he his first season??

Not overly impressed with Firmino?

Really??

Really??

Eh Yes.

And Yes.

I've more often than not found him underwhelming. Then, after a game I come on here and find people waxing lyrical about the bloke. At the moment, it's the same kind of hype that escalated Henderson way beyond his merit. It's happening with this fella too, his appearances as Mick said have been patchy, occasionally he's put in a good performance, nothing tremendous by any stretch and on other occasions he's anonymous.

Just as he was again, against City. In fact, I only knew he was on the pitch because he failed to read/bend/hold his run and was caught offside most of the time. If he wasn't doing that he was running into blind alleys or giving the ball away.

He works hard, so does Henderson, which has been stated by someone is nothing other than a backhanded compliment. Especially to a player in his position. He doesn't have the vision or touch Coutinho has, and has offered little creativity to minimal goal threat thus far. I hope he actually becomes a player who is worthy of such praise, and when I see it I will be the first to acknowledge it, but because he has an exotic name and is of Brazilian descent it doesn't mean I'm going to whip out the Firmino bunting after every game in which he's played.

We may have more things to worry about, midfield being the Red Alert area but for me, the trio of our attack at this moment in time is a worry. Firmino has pretty much been the mainstay there whether he's played as a striker or in behind, and to be fair just like Benteke he hasn't pulled up trees. Sturridge looked well off too in the final and I was equally disappointed with him, but we know more often than not with him, he will come up trumps and at least provide us that goal threat. He's returning from injury, in a game played shortly after the Augsburg one which may have been a bridge to far in terms of his fitness. The same could be said of Coutinho too with his injury - but he scored the equaliser and looked much more of a creative threat than his fellow countryman.

I think he actually needs a rest (dropping) for a game or two as a sub because 1) we're not clicking in an attacking sense (and the midfield hasn't helped matters here neither) and 2) he's probably jaded and on current form isn't contributing to the team sufficiently. 

No you said he was world class then made a point about comparing him to what we have. So which is it? Because he isn't world class, nowhere close in fact. Is he better than what we have? Maybe but certainly up for debate.

Exactly what i said... and Yes Better than what we have, though that would take little doing

Still shattered, don't really want to talk about it. Turned the telly off the second Yaya's penno hit the back of the net.

Anyone else see the report on FB...will try to find it.....of their keeper standing 1 meter off his line for the 3 pens he saved?

F***ing cheats! And how Yaya stays on the pitch to even take that penalty is beyond me.

Gutted, shattered and miserable. F**k My Sporting Life.

He wanted to leave so he would get "Regular First Team Football" so not to miss out on the Euros, much like Milner wanting first team football
 

I had the foresight to see what a wonderful signing Tevez would have been, just like buying Hernandez would have been, and Like Ronaldo Aarons would be, and  the damage Kenny would wreak on the club second time around, that it would set us back five years I said at the time due to his transfer policies...but i take your point
 

In principle I totally agree with you but lets be honest, we are no longer the club we use to be, Players don't flock to sign for us, teams like Utd,Chelsea,City, Arsenal, Spurs have more of a pull factor than Liverpool. You can call us a "Big" Club till the cows come home, Players no longer see us that way; which in the end is what counts... We are not minnows, but we are large fish swimming with Sharks.... So we have to start somewhere, and where we should start is be replacing mediocrity, with above average Players,Above average with Quality, Quality with Classy player etc, till we have World Class players


That maybe true but I remember no so long ago one Xabi Alonso being bitterly complained about by the Liverpool faithfully before coming good, and besides how poor was he his first season??

You want to fill your squad with past it, injury prone has beens I'd prefer to fill it with talented pre peak players who hopefully spend their best seasons with us.