League Cup Final Liverpool 1:1 Man City (ET) 1:3 after penalties.

 

I had the foresight to see what a wonderful signing Tevez would have been, just like buying Hernandez would have been, and Like Ronaldo Aarons would be, and  the damage Kenny would wreak on the club second time around, that it would set us back five years I said at the time due to his transfer policies...but i take your point
 

That's not foresight mate it opinion and guesswork, you have literally no base of fact to say any of those players would have or would work out here.

There are too many moving variables to any transfer.

As for Kenny's transfer policy's...

It's known that we have bumped from one failed strategy to the next under FSG, from a director of football to a youth policy to a transfer committee which has all helped create what we have right now.
Kenny worked with a DOF, who openly admitted taking the names to Kenny and working with a stats based theory, Kenny States in his book that Carroll was presented to him and he was asked what he thought of him as a player but it was near on done prior to that conversation, don't forget he had been back 2-3 weeks as caretaker at the point Carroll was signed.
I'm not defending Kenny simply for the fact of defending him because as much as I don't think he had much to do with the Carroll signing neither do I think he had much to do with the Suarez one, but if you are then you must also give him credit for signing one of the best players to pull on the shirt in Suarez?

It's all hindsight and bollocks, we haven't had one true solid transfer policy since these owners have come in, we have slipped and bumped to the next one and I just hope for all of our points of view they stop trying to be too clever for their own good, stop trying to think of 5 years down the road and let us sign to a plan for the here and now.

Too many people try to justify their own role at the club when one man ( or the ones close to him who know what he needs) should shape the team.

Since FSG have been here we have gone gone into our 4th manager, we have tried numerous policies and we have turned the squad over and over..

The net result? The only thing that looks better is the wage bill and the balance sheets.. The squad certain doesn't. The squad looks lacking in leaders and quality.

We have a revered manager now, that hopefully players will want to sign for, we have to let the man work, give him time space and control because of too many people keep trying to get involved we will keep treading water.

I don't think FSG are the worst owners, they have made money available and we are stable but they need to stop trying to bridge the gap by being too clever and just let the football men run the club because all we have had is business men running it and that's the reason that the books look great but we look like also rans stuck 6th-8th

For smart men they keep ripping up and starting again, no long term plan has been stuck to, no real football plan.. How much have they wasted in sacking managers and other staff in pay offs before we even think about transfer fees because of the policies and the chopping and changing of management.
It even goes as close as last summer when Brendan was clinging on with his finger nails we allow him to be part of turning over the squad again, the second summer running 8-10 players brought in.. Then he's sacked and paid off as well as the new back room staff only brought in 3 months prior and we bring a new manager stuck with the 8-10 players he may not have wanted who have now only been at the club for a few months

Still shattered, don't really want to talk about it. Turned the telly off the second Yaya's penno hit the back of the net.

Anyone else see the report on FB...will try to find it.....of their keeper standing 1 meter off his line for the 3 pens he saved?

F***ing cheats! And how Yaya stays on the pitch to even take that penalty is beyond me.

Gutted, shattered and miserable. F**k My Sporting Life.

Coutinhos penalty mate should have been retaken. Caballero jumped a meter in front of his line before Coutinho made any contact with the ball, that is against the rules.

I think Phillipe was put of by it and thought about the retake hence the hesitation as he encroached

The loss in the league cup final shows that;  :-

We have no leadership on the field. Hendo is not a leader, when we equalised  and held City by the throat I expect hendo to provide the driving force and leadership and lead the team over the finishing line.No,no he is not a natural born leader, he will never step into Stevie's shoes. Never, not in a million years. Klopp has to now start looking for a leader with the passion and bravery to lead the rest to  glory.

Too many average players and we know who they are. I hope Klopp would start to be brutal  and start to chop players not up to mark. No time for sentiments. Even if we have to sell benteke for a big loss, so be it.

Too many players had 1 outstanding game and next 3 average and 3 more poor poor games in the likes of lallana, Hendo etc ... before their next outstanding game.

The midfield needs a total revamp, it has always been the engine room that we haven't got sorted out. City cut through our midfield like a knife time and again. Had it been sturdier and physically stronger, City would have struggled big time.

I'm eager to see what Klopp will do in the close season.

We have no leadership on the field.

I understand why some people say this and have been saying it for many seasons but I don't think it's the case, especially in this game. 

If we had no leaders we wouldn't have fought back from a goal down to equalise with minutes to spare and we wouldn't have kept them at bay for another 30 odd minutes after equalising. 

They are a team that has quality all over the pitch but a team we bum shafted at their place in the league and because of that their Manager changed their set up, formation and tactics to contain us and prevent another bum shafting.

They beat us on penalties, after 120 minutes of open play, if we had no leaders we wouldn't have made it to half time, never mind a final.

You want to fill your squad with past it, injury prone has beens I'd prefer to fill it with talented pre peak players who hopefully spend their best seasons with us.

Now your're twisting my words Deb.... All Great teams have a mixture Young, mid twenties and older players and all players get injured... You need the older players to add the experience so the young can learn from them and the more talent the older player the more he can teach the younger one (In theory at least).....

You and a few others asked about what Bastian Schweinsteiger has done at Man Utd, I will turn that a round and ask what Michael Carrick has archived at Man Utd... These  type of players are there to find passes for Strikers, if the chip in with a few goals all the better...

Also with the arrival of Xabi Alonso at Bayern Munich on 29 August 2014, Bastian Schweinsteiger was not guaranteed to be first choice player and with the Euros coming up he requested to leave the club

That's not foresight mate it opinion and guesswork, you have literally no base of fact to say any of those players would have or would work out here.

There are too many moving variables to any transfer.

As for Kenny's transfer policy's...

It's known that we have bumped from one failed strategy to the next under FSG, from a director of football to a youth policy to a transfer committee which has all helped create what we have right now.
Kenny worked with a DOF, who openly admitted taking the names to Kenny and working with a stats based theory, Kenny States in his book that Carroll was presented to him and he was asked what he thought of him as a player but it was near on done prior to that conversation, don't forget he had been back 2-3 weeks as caretaker at the point Carroll was signed.
I'm not defending Kenny simply for the fact of defending him because as much as I don't think he had much to do with the Carroll signing neither do I think he had much to do with the Suarez one, but if you are then you must also give him credit for signing one of the best players to pull on the shirt in Suarez?

It's all hindsight and bollocks, we haven't had one true solid transfer policy since these owners have come in, we have slipped and bumped to the next one and I just hope for all of our points of view they stop trying to be too clever for their own good, stop trying to think of 5 years down the road and let us sign to a plan for the here and now.

Too many people try to justify their own role at the club when one man ( or the ones close to him who know what he needs) should shape the team.

Since FSG have been here we have gone gone into our 4th manager, we have tried numerous policies and we have turned the squad over and over..

The net result? The only thing that looks better is the wage bill and the balance sheets.. The squad certain doesn't. The squad looks lacking in leaders and quality.

We have a revered manager now, that hopefully players will want to sign for, we have to let the man work, give him time space and control because of too many people keep trying to get involved we will keep treading water.

I don't think FSG are the worst owners, they have made money available and we are stable but they need to stop trying to bridge the gap by being too clever and just let the football men run the club because all we have had is business men running it and that's the reason that the books look great but we look like also rans stuck 6th-8th

For smart men they keep ripping up and starting again, no long term plan has been stuck to, no real football plan.. How much have they wasted in sacking managers and other staff in pay offs before we even think about transfer fees because of the policies and the chopping and changing of management.
It even goes as close as last summer when Brendan was clinging on with his finger nails we allow him to be part of turning over the squad again, the second summer running 8-10 players brought in.. Then he's sacked and paid off as well as the new back room staff only brought in 3 months prior and we bring a new manager stuck with the 8-10 players he may not have wanted who have now only been at the club for a few months

Everything we do is basis on Opinion and Guest Work no it may; or not be Educated Opinion and Guest Work (Without trying to sound pompous) mine was and Educated Opinion Basis on my knowledge of football and these players

As for Kenny, the deal for Suarez was in place long before Kenny took over, But Carroll, Henderson,Downing and Adam was all down to him

Now your're twisting my words Deb.... All Great teams have a mixture Young, mid twenties and older players and all players get injured... You need the older players to add the experience so the young can learn from them and the more talent the older player the more he can teach the younger one (In theory at least).....

You and a few others asked about what Bastian Schweinsteiger has done at Man Utd, I will turn that a round and ask what Michael Carrick has archived at Man Utd... These  type of players are there to find passes for Strikers, if the chip in with a few goals all the better...

Also with the arrival of Xabi Alonso at Bayern Munich on 29 August 2014, Bastian Schweinsteiger was not guaranteed to be first choice player and with the Euros coming up he requested to leave the club

Oh come on Man!!

Carrick wasn't bought at 30 odd years old, struggling with injuries for the last couple of seasons and coming into a league he didn't know when he came to the scum. 

He was 24 years old, with over 200 league appearances and was the 6th highest paid transfer for them.  He was meant to be the mainstay of their midfield for the next 10 seasons and he has been.

The comparison is laughable mate.

Everything we do is basis on Opinion and Guest Work no it may; or not be Educated Opinion and Guest Work (Without trying to sound pompous) mine was and Educated Opinion Basis on my knowledge of football and these players

 

Ok mate if you like.

Of course you don't know if Tevez would fall out with Carra or Skrtel on his first day and never settle.

You don't know if Hernandez gels with the players around him and makes runs that's aren't being picked up, goes 8 without scoring and mentally never recovers due to all the written press and sky sports heaping stuff on him about moving from UTD to Liverpool

You don't know if Aarons doesn't settle in the area, doesn't settle with the pressure of a massive club on him, breaks up with his mrs and ends of on loan in 6 months back to France

Like I said.. Too many variables to any transfer

As for Kenny, the deal for Suarez was in place long before Kenny took over, But Carroll, Henderson,Downing and Adam was all down to him

On Carroll

Go read his book.. From his own mouth

And the rest were joint with him and the DOF. It had to be a joint deal with the numbers and stats

No manager in world football gets all signings right.. Not one

You're right that we had been scouting Suarez for a while, who did Rafa ask to go and scout him for him?

I understand why some people say this and have been saying it for many seasons but I don't think it's the case, especially in this game. 

If we had no leaders we wouldn't have fought back from a goal down to equalise with minutes to spare and we wouldn't have kept them at bay for another 30 odd minutes after equalising. 

They are a team that has quality all over the pitch but a team we bum shafted at their place in the league and because of that their Manager changed their set up, formation and tactics to contain us and prevent another bum shafting.

They beat us on penalties, after 120 minutes of open play, if we had no leaders we wouldn't have made it to half time, never mind a final.

You understand why people say this but then go on to say we have a team full of leaders.

Who in our squad would you class as a leader? A leader to me is a Jamie Carragher, a Steven Gerrard, a Sami, a Suarez. Somebody with a bit of passion who will put their body on the line and die for the shirt.

Lucas aside I don't see any of those type of characters in our squad at all.

They are all international footballers managed by a world class manager, they are bound to get results and perform well sometimes, that doesn't mean we have any leaders in the team.

You understand why people say this but then go on to say we have a team full of leaders.

Who in our squad would you class as a leader? A leader to me is a Jamie Carragher, a Steven Gerrard, a Sami, a Suarez. Somebody with a bit of passion who will put their body on the line and die for the shirt.

Lucas aside I don't see any of those type of characters in our squad at all.

They are all international footballers managed by a world class manager, they are bound to get results and perform well sometimes, that doesn't mean we have any leaders in the team.

No I didn't say that at all but whatever floats ya boat 

Oh come on Man!!

Carrick wasn't bought at 30 odd years old, struggling with injuries for the last couple of seasons and coming into a league he didn't know when he came to the scum. 

He was 24 years old, with over 200 league appearances and was the 6th highest paid transfer for them.  He was meant to be the mainstay of their midfield for the next 10 seasons and he has been.

The comparison is laughable mate.

that was not the comparison i was making... the comparison was that Carrick can not be consider a prolific goal score for man Utd neither. He; like Schweinsteiger are architects, they are  creators and no one can doubt That Man Utd play better with Carrick or Schweinsteiger in the side

Ok mate if you like.

Of course you don't know if Tevez would fall out with Carra or Skrtel on his first day and never settle.

You don't know if Hernandez gels with the players around him and makes runs that's aren't being picked up, goes 8 without scoring and mentally never recovers due to all the written press and sky sports heaping stuff on him about moving from UTD to Liverpool

You don't know if Aarons doesn't settle in the area, doesn't settle with the pressure of a massive club on him, breaks up with his mrs and ends of on loan in 6 months back to France

Like I said.. Too many variables to any transfer

Then lets never sign anyone, I mean if you are going to worry about all the variables instead of what a player has to offer the team then that's fine

I understand why some people say this and have been saying it for many seasons but I don't think it's the case, especially in this game. 

If we had no leaders we wouldn't have fought back from a goal down to equalise with minutes to spare and we wouldn't have kept them at bay for another 30 odd minutes after equalising. 

They are a team that has quality all over the pitch but a team we bum shafted at their place in the league and because of that their Manager changed their set up, formation and tactics to contain us and prevent another bum shafting.

They beat us on penalties, after 120 minutes of open play, if we had no leaders we wouldn't have made it to half time, never mind a final.

To say that we had leaders on the pitch and we took them to 120 mins doesn't make much sense. If I hadn't watch the match I would concur with that.  Yes, we took City to extra time, we could easily have lost by a 5-1 scoreline, I'm just being honest to say  that and our luck ran out in the penalty kicks. 

11 players cannot be leaders on the pitch going by what you have said. Otherwise 11 players will wait for the next person to take the lead, that's exactly what happened. 11 leaders decided to up the tempo of the game that resulted in the equaliser and 11 players did not up the tempo to score the winner because there's no one single leader to urge them on.   We, collectively have somewhat decided to up the tempo of the game and went on an offensive that resulted in the equaliser, my view is as such. If Stevie had been on the pitch, he would have urged the lads on or he himself would have taken on the responsibility to get the second goal. I see non of these qualities in Hendo.  No hands waving to the lads, no chest thumping, no passion, nothing, just those usual side and back passes and passes to a cul-de-sac when there was acre of spaces on Milner's side.

Take for instance the crosses were getting into the box from Milner and Origi was nowhere to be seen but tangoing with City's defender. If I were hendo I would have urged Origi to meet those crosses coming in or at least become a nuisance to the goalkeeper and not be a statue.

So I ponder again, who is the leader then? No point having the armband and not doing the job. Yes, City has qualities all over the pitch but we have seen time and again a cup final is a one off match and it is winnable and it needs passion to do that. The underdogs have  often won it, Istanbul springs to mind.   No offence mate, we just see and interpret things differently.

Coutinhos penalty mate should have been retaken. Caballero jumped a meter in front of his line before Coutinho made any contact with the ball, that is against the rules.

I think Phillipe was put of by it and thought about the retake hence the hesitation as he encroached

Didn't notice it at the time mate but I still reckon it was a piss poor effort from Couts. He had hardly any run up and he looked sh*t scared when he was about to take it. Should have thrashed that in.

“If I’m captain of the club I’m first up. If I’m supposedly England’s best striker I’m second up,” Adam told BBC 5Live.

“Jordan Henderson is a shy character, so maybe he doesn’t feel like he had to step up. But you’ve got to have the bottle to be able to stand up.”

Is Charlie Adam really slagging people off about penalties at Wembley after his horror show a few years ago?

Coutinhos penalty mate should have been retaken. Caballero jumped a meter in front of his line before Coutinho made any contact with the ball, that is against the rules.

I think Phillipe was put of by it and thought about the retake hence the hesitation as he encroached

Swings and roundabouts.

Have people forgot Dudek almost at the six-yard box in the shoot-out in '05?

We, really cannot have any complaints with that.

Swings and roundabouts.

Have people forgot Dudek almost at the six-yard box in the shoot-out in '05?

We, really cannot have any complaints with that.

Yeah but that was for us not against us. F**k the rest.


EDIT:  Also forgot to ask the question...did they have a linesman back their on the goal line during those days to stop that? I don't think so.

Is Charlie Adam really slagging people off about penalties at Wembley after his horror show a few years ago?

He isn't talking about the ability to take a penalty though, he's talking about bottle, and he's right.

If Jordan was first up and skied his penalty so what, at least he has the bollocks to take one, be first up and LEAD by example.

I'm not having it that can, Lallana and Coutinho are all ahead of him in pecking order of taking a penalty in a normal premierleague match. So where the F**k was he.

Boils my piss we have such a shithouse as our captain. No wonder were F***ing 11th.

Some people simply aren't cut out to be leaders of men, you can see it in their demeanour. It doesn't of course mean you have to scream and rant like a lunatic, but it does mean you are the sort of bloke who people will follow. In our squad, the outstanding and obvious candidate is Lucas. Sakho could probably do it if he calmed down, Lovren could, Milner could and Kolo Toure could. Henderson unfortunately can't and shouldn't.

Yeah but that was for us not against us. F**k the rest.

 

Some people simply aren't cut out to be leaders of men, you can see it in their demeanour. It doesn't of course mean you have to scream and rant like a lunatic, but it does mean you are the sort of bloke who people will follow. In our squad, the outstanding and obvious candidate is Lucas. Sakho could probably do it if he calmed down, Lovren could, Milner could and Kolo Toure could. Henderson unfortunately can't and shouldn't.

The only thing I'd counter it with Mick is what you hear about how he is respected by the rest of the players, read what Gerrard says about him, if he didn't believe it he would just say nothing.
Listen to what the squad say about how much he was missed as a leader after he was sent off against Chelsea in 2014

Rodgers used to lean on him even when Gerrard was skipper, pull him across and get him to pass messages along, Klopp has stuck by him when he could easily given it someone else as soon as he walked through the door, he may well do in the summer but it will be a bigger deal and harder to do in the summer than when he walked through the door.

Would I prefer a Gerrard or a Hyppia or a Souness? Yes but I think that the squad has more respect and look to him more than we do.

He isn't talking about the ability to take a penalty though, he's talking about bottle, and he's right.

If Jordan was first up and skied his penalty so what, at least he has the bollocks to take one, be first up and LEAD by example.

 

Not all skippers take them, even though I'm surprised he didn't in terms of leading. Remember his argument with Balotelli last season? Whatever we think of Balotelli he's a sound pen taker and Hendo was ripping it out of his hands..

Maybe mentally because of the foot injury he didn't feel he was trusting of that..

I don't know.. But there is always stuff that we don't know that goes on behind the scenes.
Lallana took on against Stoke and scored, but missed against Carlisle, maybe he hadn't missed another in training.
Lucas scored against Stoke and maybe score everyone in training

Firmino probably would have taken one but was off the pitch, if Sakho hadn't gone off injured or Moreno have a shocker Klopp could have brought Benteke on in extra time to have one.

Maybe because of the foot injury Hendo just wasn't striking them in training and the other lads were burying them.

Did I think he'd step up? Yes.. Especially with that Balotelli argument behind him, he must fancy himself taking them

Not all skippers take them, even though I'm surprised he didn't in terms of leading. Remember his argument with Balotelli last season? Whatever we think of Balotelli he's a sound pen taker and Hendo was ripping it out of his hands..

Maybe mentally because of the foot injury he didn't feel he was trusting of that..

I don't know.. But there is always stuff that we don't know that goes on behind the scenes.
Lallana took on against Stoke and scored, but missed against Carlisle, maybe he hadn't missed another in training.
Lucas scored against Stoke and maybe score everyone in training

Firmino probably would have taken one but was off the pitch, if Sakho hadn't gone off injured or Moreno have a shocker Klopp could have brought Benteke on in extra time to have one.

Maybe because of the foot injury Hendo just wasn't striking them in training and the other lads were burying them.

Did I think he'd step up? Yes.. Especially with that Balotelli argument behind him, he must fancy himself taking them

Are you messing?

Henderson was taking that penalty until Balotelli took the ball from him. Being the shithouse that he is, Henderson let him.

Im not debating whether Jordan is a better penalty taker than Mario, because he probably isn't, but that doesn't change the fact that Jordan picked the ball up and said this is mine and then Maro skipped along and took it from him because everybody knows Hendo is a little wimp.

Even Sturridge was barking at Henderson saying your the captain, you take the penalty, and Henderson was just shrugging his shoulders.

Shithouse.

Edit:  Do you think Stevie would have let Balotelli take that ball from him? No, Stevie would have chinned him. Actually im pretty sure Gerrard was on the panel for that game and he was asked if he would let Mario take the pen from him (who might have a better pen record than gerrard too by the way) and he said no chance. 

Are you messing?

Henderson was taking that penalty until Balotelli took the ball from him. Being the shithouse that he is, Henderson let him.

Im not debating whether Jordan is a better penalty taker than Mario, because he probably isn't, but that doesn't change the fact that Jordan picked the ball up and said this is mine and then Maro skipped along and took it from him because everybody knows Hendo is a little wimp.

Even Sturridge was barking at Henderson saying your the captain, you take the penalty, and Henderson was just shrugging his shoulders.

Shithouse.

Edit:  Do you think Stevie would have let Balotelli take that ball from him? No, Stevie would have chinned him. Actually im pretty sure Gerrard was on the panel for that game and he was asked if he would let Mario take the pen from him (who might have a better pen record than gerrard too by the way) and he said no chance.

You're missing the point I'm making

I'm not going to get into an argument with you about it when you haven't seen what I'm trying to say or the fact I'm ultimately agreeing with you.