That magic word... Consistency

Sporadic poster, long time lurker here, go easy on me. Supporter since 1990. My opinion only and do not presume any facts in the following... apologies if this topic has been covered elsewhere

From watching the games since Klopp took over and since I started supporting the team, I have seen some outstanding performances, some average performances and we won't talk about the rest. I am happier amount Klopp's appointment than the proverbial pig in the brown stuff. I believe he will take us forward, and watching last night's game you could see the Klopp plan executed almost to perfection last night. Great hassle in numbers, a team that is perhaps greater than the sum of its parts. Yet Sunday was a different performance altogether, and we were lucky/grateful to Raheem* (delete as applicable) for getting to extra time & penalties. For other "average" performances read Watford, West Ham, Sunderland etc..

I have watched the team under various managers raise their game for the "big games" (e.g United/City/Chelsea/Arsenal plus UCL games against Milan/Barca/Real - consistently the top four during my time) and then watched as we are rolled over by (no disrespect meant) teams we should beat on a consistent 9/10 basis - West Brom, Crystal Palace, Stoke, Leicester, Sion, Basel, Besiktas etc.. you get the idea.

My question is thus... how can JK deliver the consistency we require to make top four / five this season and going forward with a team/club that has consistently struggled (during my time and IRO the league campaign) for erm... consistency?
I believe this is a quality that has eluded most if not all the managers I have seen during my time with arguably better teams/squads.

I think the summer window will be crucial and by bringing in more experienced/higher quality players that should help which for me includes a reliable goalkeeper & creative midfielder. A full pre-season under Klopp and co will also help but there is no guarantee. As long as I can see improvement in the team for the rest of this season then the results (on the whole) do not matter to me.

I believe some of the current players are just not good enough for LFC, and, as many more knowledgeable posters on here have already alluded to, Klopp probably has a better idea of who he wants/doesn't want next season. I believe some of the players are good enough but sustaining their best level of performance remains elusive. I do not believe we have any truly World Class players at present based on either performance or fitness issues. I am hoping that the board and JK can attract better players in the summer as a result of the gaffer's higher profile than BR.

One request for the team/management: Please solve this issue prior to the Crystal Palace game at the weekend and then BATTER Utd over 2 legs. That would be just peachy, thanks!! 

Supporter since 1990.

Let me get this straight.... you started supporting the club in 1990, and that was the last time we won the league

This guy is the curse!!!   

My question is thus... how can JK deliver the consistency we require to make top four / five this season and going forward with a team/club that has consistently struggled (during my time and IRO the league campaign) for erm... consistency?
I believe this is a quality that has eluded most if not all the managers I have seen during my time with arguably better teams/squads.

Liverpool are kings of inconsistency as you point out.  Fact is you need a collection of players with belief in each other, and the necessary drive to push forwards.  Competition within the team is also important.  Sturridge and Suarez spent a season both getting involved in the action - now that Sturridge has had the weight of the goalscoring placed upon him he invariably goes missing.

I believe some of the players are good enough but sustaining their best level of performance remains elusive.

I'm not sure.  On the whole I don't think the players are good enough.  Gut feeling is that the Man City result was more about professional pride rather then them having rapidly turned a corner.  We've been here before when we beat City 4-1 away and for the most part the season has continued to be very average.

It wouldn't surprise many if we had another poor result at Palace - and at the minute it wouldn't surprise the manager or the players either.  That's the bit that has to change first.

Easiest way is to play the consistent players more often.

Flanagan/Clyne instead of Moreno/Clyne.
Skrtel and Lucas at the back.

Allen in for Can etc.

Then rotate the inconsistent players if they aren't producing.

Easiest way is to play the consistent players more often.

Flanagan/Clyne instead of Moreno/Clyne.
Skrtel and Lucas at the back.

Allen in for Can etc.

Then rotate the inconsistent players if they aren't producing.

Flanagan isn't consistent.
Skrtel and Lucas aren't consistent.
Allen isn't consistent.

Flanagan isn't consistent.
Skrtel and Lucas aren't consistent.
Allen isn't consistent.

Will you stop pointing out the obvious   

Sturridge is our most consistent player when he's fit. Henderson is usually consistent too when he's fit. Clyne is quite consistent. Coutinho is consistent when he's got a striker with movement ahead of him. When he's playing in a team that lacks movement, he's inconsistent.

The rest of our team is fairly inconsistent.

Also, Henderson in an interview recently said he thought the team's biggest weakness was consistency.

Let me get this straight.... you started supporting the club in 1990, and that was the last time we won the league

This guy is the curse!!!   

Least it wasn't 1991 he'd be supporting bloody Leeds!

Sturridge is our most consistent player when he's fit.

Having watched the three last games he started I'd say that was highly debatable.

It will come, just wait and see. Next season for sure, mibees even the rest of this season, now we have most players fit again.

The only consistency we had so far is from Moreno... consistently sh*te ! 

In all seriousness Clyne, Milner, Lucas, Firminho, Coutinho have been our go to guys.

Origi, Lovren, Allen and most recently Can  have had spells of consistency where they have shown some hope.

Sturridge, Henderson, Flannagan, Skrtel and Sakho have been in and out with injuries but have been dependable in the past.

Lallana, Moreno, Mignolet, Ibe and Benteke... 

Wow I think I have accidentally summarized our season if you read between groupings. More need to go into first group. When you only have 4/5 dependable players and 4/5 mercurial ones and add the two idiots at the back you get a season like ours.

Sporadic poster, long time lurker here, go easy on me. Supporter since 1990. My opinion only and do not presume any facts in the following... apologies if this topic has been covered elsewhere

From watching the games since Klopp took over and since I started supporting the team, I have seen some outstanding performances, some average performances and we won't talk about the rest. I am happier amount Klopp's appointment than the proverbial pig in the brown stuff. I believe he will take us forward, and watching last night's game you could see the Klopp plan executed almost to perfection last night. Great hassle in numbers, a team that is perhaps greater than the sum of its parts. Yet Sunday was a different performance altogether, and we were lucky/grateful to Raheem* (delete as applicable) for getting to extra time & penalties. For other "average" performances read Watford, West Ham, Sunderland etc..

Nice Op. I agree with every word of it. In all of our best wins under Jürgen (see City twice in the league, Chelsea away and Saints away in the cup) the team have pretty much executed Klopps well known vision for football. We've pressed the ball intelligently, not allowed the opposition to find any sort of rhythm, they've won the ball back in high areas and been clinical when chances have come along. Offensively there was a good tempo and movement and a similar intensity with the ball to without. The question is why haven't and can't we play like that every week?

- Fitness and depth is the first thing that springs to mind. We have got some quality players in the squad but there is a genuine lack of depth in certain postions. Pochetino at Spurs a year further down the line with his squad and likes to play in the same fashion. His players run like dogs and have been all season but he has rotated his players regularly and has faith in the players he brings in. You only have to look at the full-back position, they get through a ridiculous amount of work but he has Trippier, Rose, Davies and Walker. The big challenge for Jürgen is whether the squad can play at this intensity during Christmas periods or when we have fixture congestion (and we have had plenty of that this season). Pochetino has managed it but let's see, if Spurs lose to Arsenal at the weekend maybe we'll be saying the players have hit the wall.

- Plan B? With that in mind, if games and physical condition dictate that for certain fixtures we can't play at such high intensity what is the backup plan? I can't say I'm too sure and was having this debate with a mate of mine the other day. Some of the games you mentioned we just sort of coasted through them without any clear gameplan as such. For two years under Brendan (before he completely lost his way) we were a possession football side who dominated the ball, that was our identity. I'd like to see another way of playing under Jürgen and am interested to see what is his plan b.

- Balance & quality. In equal measure really., we need better players but  are also missing the right sorts of player in several areas. Clearly there is a lack of quality and need to upgrade in certain areas. You've already alluded to the goalkeeper and most would agree we need to upgrade the left back position. But the side are also incredibly unbalanced. We've got a dysfunctional midfield. Henderson, Can and Milner have all taken their fair share of criticism this season and rightly so but the truth is they're all pretty decent BUT they should never be playing together because they share the strengths and the same weaknesses. Whether it needs an Alonso metronomic DM in there or a Modric ball player sort is another debate but it absolutely needs sorting. There is only one winger in the squad and that's young Ibe, he has bags of potential but has suffered from playing behind a very static forward line (see Benteke) and needs a number 9 playing on the shoulder (which neither Benteke or Firmino do) to get the best out of him. The result is we've relied on Moreno and Clyne for width for much of the season. And obviously we've been buggered up front. Studge on the table all season, Ings crocked, Original only just starting to look the part and Benteke completely unsuited to our style and now devoid of any sort of confidence as a result.

- Clearly so much depends on the next couple of transfer windows, being lucky with injuries and a strong pre-season. I like some of the improvements we've seen defensively, the team defend as a team for much of the time but silly individual errors have hurt. The problems have come at the other end and were we. To score early in games I doesn't half make defending easier. That is Jürgen's biggest challenge I think. That and finding a plan b for when the players are in need of less energy expenditure.

Flanagan isn't consistent.
Skrtel and Lucas aren't consistent.

Bullshit!

Your not going to get consistency when your player's are decidedly average,  not all of the players who play regularly will have or find the level required.

Can for example will play decently but not top of his game one week then play sh*te the following week,  we can count the fingers in one hand the times he's played at  his best since he signed, 
Lallana is another,  in fact you could argue most of the regular picks are way off of being consistent,  simply because they are average and not top drawer level players,

You only have to look at Barcelona to see consistency because they are awash with top drawer quality,  we're not,  simples!


YNWA

Stop selling our consistently good players would go a long way to helping

Don't think we're the only ones scratching our heads about the inconsistency this season.
It's frustrating, no doubt.
Injuries have played a huge part. Can't recall a season like it.
Trying to work in the 32mill lump of wood had us off on a tangent for a good number of games.
And of course, new manager, and other backroom staff - causes disruption.

BRs main failing imo was that during his tenure, we didn't sign - on balance - enough quality players.  That has to improve under Klopp. We have players imo that are capable of being better than our current league position - but we've been too inconsistent (some reasons above). But they are not good enough imo to challenge for top spot. Need Jürgen to work some magic.

Having watched the three last games he started I'd say that was highly debatable.

3 games after being out for months. Is that a fair way to judge a player? He's shown in 12/13 and in 13/14 that he's ridiculously consistent. He's usually good at spreading his goals out too rather than scoring 5 in one game.

The only way to achieve consistency is for him to be given the money and freedom to buy better players and the time needed to settle. We have enough unrealised potential in the squad, now we need proven players. Proven in title races, proven in Europe, proven in big games and big competitions.

Flanagan isn't consistent.
Skrtel and Lucas aren't consistent.
Allen isn't consistent.

The point is that they are more consistent than the other options in the squad.

3 games after being out for months. Is that a fair way to judge a player?

He's hardly played in 2 years so I don't think we can call him the most consistent player in our squad just yet.

Flanagan isn't consistent.

Give the lad a break, we are lucky he has come back at all after his injury. Been out over a year and you are declaring him inconsistent.

Easiest way is to play the consistent players more often.

Flanagan/Clyne instead of Moreno/Clyne.
Skrtel and Lucas at the back.

Allen in for Can etc.

Then rotate the inconsistent players if they aren't producing.

You're a laugh a minute, the players are over-trained now you want to play the same team all the time. As soon as one of them pulled up with a hamstring injury you'd be back on your soap-box.

You're a laugh a minute, the players are over-trained now you want to play the same team all the time. As soon as one of them pulled up with a hamstring injury you'd be back on your soap-box.

The question was about how to improve our consistency.

Sporadic poster, long time lurker here, go easy on me. Supporter since 1990. My opinion only and do not presume any facts in the following... apologies if this topic has been covered elsewhere

From watching the games since Klopp took over and since I started supporting the team, I have seen some outstanding performances, some average performances and we won't talk about the rest. I am happier amount Klopp's appointment than the proverbial pig in the brown stuff. I believe he will take us forward, and watching last night's game you could see the Klopp plan executed almost to perfection last night. Great hassle in numbers, a team that is perhaps greater than the sum of its parts. Yet Sunday was a different performance altogether, and we were lucky/grateful to Raheem* (delete as applicable) for getting to extra time & penalties. For other "average" performances read Watford, West Ham, Sunderland etc..

I have watched the team under various managers raise their game for the "big games" (e.g United/City/Chelsea/Arsenal plus UCL games against Milan/Barca/Real - consistently the top four during my time) and then watched as we are rolled over by (no disrespect meant) teams we should beat on a consistent 9/10 basis - West Brom, Crystal Palace, Stoke, Leicester, Sion, Basel, Besiktas etc.. you get the idea.

My question is thus... how can JK deliver the consistency we require to make top four / five this season and going forward with a team/club that has consistently struggled (during my time and IRO the league campaign) for erm... consistency?
I believe this is a quality that has eluded most if not all the managers I have seen during my time with arguably better teams/squads.

I think the summer window will be crucial and by bringing in more experienced/higher quality players that should help which for me includes a reliable goalkeeper & creative midfielder. A full pre-season under Klopp and co will also help but there is no guarantee. As long as I can see improvement in the team for the rest of this season then the results (on the whole) do not matter to me.

I believe some of the current players are just not good enough for LFC, and, as many more knowledgeable posters on here have already alluded to, Klopp probably has a better idea of who he wants/doesn't want next season. I believe some of the players are good enough but sustaining their best level of performance remains elusive. I do not believe we have any truly World Class players at present based on either performance or fitness issues. I am hoping that the board and JK can attract better players in the summer as a result of the gaffer's higher profile than BR.

One request for the team/management: Please solve this issue prior to the Crystal Palace game at the weekend and then BATTER Utd over 2 legs. That would be just peachy, thanks!! 

Good sensible and honest post.

Firstly mate, I think 4th is beyond our reach this season. I don't think many fans are ambitious enough to cling to that ray of hope.

As you said, or alluded to we're inconsistent. There is no point beating Man. C. twice in a league campaign, only to lose those hard earned points to Watford or Sunderland. I'd sooner see us rack up a haul of points against the other 15 teams in the league, than superficially worrying about beating the top 4 all the time, while  losing to the bottom half of the table's teams.

Actually, I'd like to see us get as many points as possible from the other 19 teams, over the course of a 38 game season. Our last manager showed that for his team attack was the best form of defense and we had a roller coaster of a ride, the best league campaign since we last won it.

I don't think Klopp will work like this, for me it looks as though defense looks like the best form of attack. It seems more important to do our best work without the ball at this stage in time anyway, certianly. That's what I'm seeing at the moment, the hassling the shape of the team etc., which is right up the alley of grafters like Henderson, Milner, Lallana & Ings. Grit is good. And it will give you a solid foundation to build upon, so long as there is grit and steel throughout the spine of the team. We're lacking in quality ball players especially in midfield and for all our running and hassling that we seem decent at on occasions, we'll come up short on others because we cannot compliment that with quality ball players who have the guile and skill to unlock equally rugged and dogged Premiership opposition.

So, as many have already said, it comes down to our recruiting (yet again), to get the right blend and balance of steel and guile that can shut teams out, as well as open them up. Once this happens, we'll regain a resemblance of consistency, until this time comes I think we'll be up and down with our performances and results, which is why I think 4th place is a dream away. 

Your not going to get consistency when your player's are decidedly average,  not all of the players who play regularly will have or find the level required.
You only have to look at Barcelona to see consistency because they are awash with top drawer quality,  we're not,  simples!


YNWA

Simples.

Henderson is usually consistent too when he's fit.

Having watched the three last games he started I'd say that was highly debatable.

I would say the amount of games that are played in England, in various cup competitions play a massive part.

One thing Klopp has mentioned (moaned about) is the constant games. Look at the league this season, Leicester are top, why? is Ranieri that good? is he feck, the amount of games the other teams have to play, play a massive part.

Look at the injuries, not just us but other teams, there are more injuries now than ever. We play far too many games in england. And it wont be long before players realise, sod England, too many games.

This needs to be addressed. It is not just us who is inconsistent, other teams are too, and it gets better results for clubs who are not in cup competitions, as they have fewer games, and fewer injuries.

Everyone classes the Carling Cup as the field a weaker team comp, it wont be long before the FA Cup will be added too, at some point priorities will take precedence, as in "if we win this game, we will have one extra match".

It has been suggested that the FA Cup games could have no replays and be decided on the night in future. Something like this has to happen, there are too many games being played.

One request for the team/management: Please solve this issue prior to the Crystal Palace game at the weekend and then BATTER Utd over 2 legs. That would be just peachy, thanks!! 

Thanks for listening boss! 

Thanks for your responses, I agree with almost everything said , but I'd never support Leeds!! 

Consistency - I have a pet theory (one of many, and pretty half-baked they are too!) that over-rotation and the idea that players need plenty of rest days between games has a part to play in our (and other top clubs') inconsistency.  And luck too.

Over-rotation has been largely forced on us admittedly, because of injuries.  But ask any player at any level at any club.  They all want to be in the first XI every game.  Because they know that regular games = best way to find form and maintain it.  When left out they try too hard (rather than just play their own game) to get back in (= chance of injury) and also again when they do get back in. 
Look at Leicester - sure they haven't had the cup commitments we've had - but they've had a consistent side with maybe the odd one change now and again when it's been forced on the manager.  The result is that the players know their own game and each others' games in the heat of battle; and maintain confidence that the manager, and the team, trusts them.  Leicester have also had incredible luck with so few injuries.  But playing week in, week out tends to reduce the incidence of injury, especially the soft tissue ones we've suffered from so much. 
So I'd agree with some comments above that suggest that we should pick and maintain a corps of 9 / 10 best XI players and keep playing them, maybe allowing more rotation in cups.  Very unfashionable, perhaps, but consistent XI's are just that - a consistent XI.  Ask David Fairclough!

When ever a new manager comes in to any club they always change certain things to suit the type of football they want to bring to the club.  As this will be a change in the way a team (full squad included) play their football and what they are asked to do on the pitch and in training, this will always result in a drop in performance.

The key is practice and time so the players can get used to the new systems etc.  With the summer transfer window approaching and bringing in better players and hopefully a good pre season for the squad, we should see an improvement next season. The longer the players play under the new regime the more consistent we will become.

The common thread in achieving consistency in football is being able to put the same consistent bunch of players on the park every week. This is something we have not been able to do this season. The greatest example is Leicester City who put out the same eleven week in and week out all season. They even substitute the same players at about the same minute every week.
All these guys learn how to form partnerships and know where each other will be. This can turn an ordinary bunch of blokes into an extraordinary team.
With cups and Europe matches and a ridiculous number of injuries this cannot happen. I bet if you researched Dortmund in their successful era under Klopp they would have had a core group of players out there every week. I did read somewhere that Dortmund struggled one year under Klopp due to massive injury problems.

Klopp is going to need to get rid of some players that are not good enough, and then recruit some tough resilient players who can be relied upon to stay fit and not continually miss matches through recurring hamstrings, knees,ankles, backs, etc etc.
Often it has been said this season that our team has played like a bunch of strangers. Go back in time through the successful era's of the 70's and 80's of Liverpool and you will find the same core group of players playing almost every week.
That is what we need to get back to if we want consistency.
Hopefully Klopp can bring it on next season.

Go back in time through the successful era's of the 70's and 80's of Liverpool and you will find the same core group of players playing almost every week.
That is what we need to get back to if we want consistency.
Hopefully Klopp can bring it on next season.

With our annual and continual campaigns in Europe year in year out we were playing two games a week the majority of the time.  They weren't wimp sh*t "group" games when you could afford to have an off day ... they were hard core knock out ,two legged rounds.
No player got singled out to have a free holiday in Jamaica.
Perhaps some whelks on Blackpool beach is where team bonding happened.

A core we had.
One campaign we only used fourteen players all season.
Squad ?

I'm not going back to " I lived in't shoebox in't middle of road"

Everything has now changed about the game... but a core group of players who play week in week out is essential.

The common thread in achieving consistency in football is being able to put the same consistent bunch of players on the park every week. This is something we have not been able to do this season. The greatest example is Leicester City who put out the same eleven week in and week out all season. They even substitute the same players at about the same minute every week.
All these guys learn how to form partnerships and know where each other will be. This can turn an ordinary bunch of blokes into an extraordinary team.
With cups and Europe matches and a ridiculous number of injuries this cannot happen. I bet if you researched Dortmund in their successful era under Klopp they would have had a core group of players out there every week. I did read somewhere that Dortmund struggled one year under Klopp due to massive injury problems.

Klopp is going to need to get rid of some players that are not good enough, and then recruit some tough resilient players who can be relied upon to stay fit and not continually miss matches through recurring hamstrings, knees,ankles, backs, etc etc.
Often it has been said this season that our team has played like a bunch of strangers. Go back in time through the successful era's of the 70's and 80's of Liverpool and you will find the same core group of players playing almost every week.
That is what we need to get back to if we want consistency.
Hopefully Klopp can bring it on next season.

I think the only way to get consistency these days is to have the subs and the reserves playing to the same tune.I would go back to the 1960s when Bill Shankly had the vision to make sure the reserves were able to step up to the first team without any loss of cohesion.Also a thing that should be taken into account is we had players who were automatic selection as we used to see in the Echo on a Thursday night.Also those players wanted to play and win for L.F.C.I think when Jürgen Klopp has brought his own players in  success will return to Anfield One further thing is we need to have a winning first team before we get the rest of the club playing the same way.