Tottenham Hotspur 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion

Seriously.. seriously... he wasn't. He isn't.

The more he is played as the centre forward, the worse he gets. Right at the end there, he had to take that alone and run down the right hand side. It was so obvious, but lacking his own confidence, he passed the ball and the chance gone. Sturridge would have gone for goal.

He's not playing as a centre forward.

Every time he got the ball, Coutinho and Mané bombed forward and made the runs. They play off Firmino who drops deeper and links it all together.

Watch it again.

Forward pressing, the pivot for our counter attacks and set up our best chances.

He's not playing as a centre forward.

Sums it up really and apart from a mad 15 minutes showed why we havent really looked like scoring or had any threat in oppostions penalty are  in open play for the other 255 minutes

He's not playing as a centre forward.

Every time he got the ball, Coutinho and Mané bombed forward and made the runs. They play off Firmino who drops deeper and links it all together.

Watch it again.

Forward pressing, the pivot for our counter attacks and set up our best chances.

You highlight one problem with Firmino. He's there to play the centre forward, but he's not playing it.  He can score goals though, but he's just not reliable enough.

That aside, Coutinho is pretty shocking as a goal scorer too (not his long shots) and his wasted chance showed that.

As you say mate, we have played well in all games. We could and should be sitting on 9 points. These things happen, its football.

Obv. Burnley was a shocker of a result, but we had plenty chances to win, the eraly goal gave them the chance to stick 10 men behind the ball.

We have absolutely bossed 2 of our top 4 rivals away from home, If coutinho had finished his 2 chances we would have won no probs v spuds.

All good, early doors etc.

That's the problem though isn't it? It's all ifs , buts and maybe's. We played well for 20 minutes against Arsenal.
We were sh*te for 90 minutes against Burnley (looking totally inept and without direction )
We had decent spells against Spurs but talk of dominating the game is false. We never , ever had that game in our grasp.
Of course now is the time to add all the if's , but's and maybe's to the above to somehow make it seem like all is rosy.
So out of 270 minutes of league football we have played well for about 50 minutes and have 4pts. Inconsistency coupled with poor decision making is holding us back .the're are problems that could be addressed immediately but for some reason are not.

You highlight one problem with Firmino. He's there to play the centre forward, but he's not playing it.  He can score goals though, but he's just not reliable enough.

That aside, Coutinho is pretty shocking as a goal scorer too (not his long shots) and his wasted chance showed that.

He's not there to play centre forward mate. It's the same plan as last season where Firmino played as a "false 9".

He drops deep, connects everything and the two wide attackers cut in to that space and make the runs.

Look at Lallana and Hendo's distribution whenever they had the ball. Hit it to Mané quickly and exploit their high line. If it weren't for poor delivery, Mané would've been in 3 times in the first half. He got denied by Lallana's toe being offside with the same tactics in the second half.

Firmino meanwhile was always dropping deep between the Spurs midfield and defence to be the shorter outlet. Occupy the centre backs/Wanyama and let Mané use that space.

It worked a treat. But they had one chance and scored and here we are being frustrated.

He's not there to play centre forward mate. It's the same plan as last season where Firmino played as a "false 9".

He drops deep, connects everything and the two wide attackers cut in to that space and make the runs.

Look at Lallana and Hendo's distribution whenever they had the ball. Hit it to Mané quickly and exploit their high line. If it weren't for poor delivery, Mané would've been in 3 times in the first half. He got denied by Lallana's toe being offside with the same tactics in the second half.

Firmino meanwhile was always dropping deep between the Spurs midfield and defence to be the shorter outlet. Occupy the centre backs/Wanyama and let Mané use that space.

It worked a treat. But they had one chance and scored and here we are being frustrated.

Perfect analysis and no one can argue with that

WTF is your problem with Firmino? He was brilliant. Take your sh*t stained glasses off.

Every time we play a "big" team, Jürgen uses Firmino as the striker and we have had a damn good record against the big teams since he got here.

Stay decent pal, no need to resort to harsh words. Did I in any way offended you? You an't gonna win an argument by resorting to bullying tactics. Otherwise, you'll soon be talking to yourself.  Brialiant? We must be watching a different player. Yes, you have said in your very own words he shows up against big teams. fair enough point. What happened to him in the rest of the games??? Peace bud, I'm not here to pick a fight with you risking being binned by the mods.

Seriously.. seriously... he wasn't. He isn't.

The more he is played as the centre forward, the worse he gets. Right at the end there, he had to take that alone and run down the right hand side. It was so obvious, but lacking his own confidence, he passed the ball and the chance gone. Sturridge would have gone for goal.

Good observation mate. +1

You don't play a slow, worker of a number 9 against a high line like Spurs if you have a pacey, intelligent and clinical striker on the bench.

As much as I do rate Roberto (and I do) - I agree with that.

I'm also 100% convinced that a peak Danny is our best out and out striker.......

BUT

I haven't seen that pace in 18 months so the debate really becomes whether a) the pace has gone or b) does he get it back through games. I don't know the former but in my experience - players get sharpness & touch back through games, not pace.

So, on that alone, I understand why the gaffer keeps making that 'mistake' so many are calling out when he's not playing with an out and out striker.

I'm not even saying Jürgen is making a "mistake" I'm just saying I disagree with him. No problem with that, or Firmino who is a player I think has bags of talent. It just seems a bit daft to me though to constantly pretend he is having a blinder when he so obviously isn't. Then if anyone disagrees, we go into "berate and call a c***" mode.  Very odd.

I'm not even saying Jürgen is making a "mistake" I'm just saying I disagree with him. No problem with that, or Firmino who is a player I think has bags of talent. It just seems a bit daft to me though to constantly pretend he is having a blinder when he so obviously isn't. Then if anyone disagrees, we go into "berate and call a c***" mode.  Very odd.

Firmino is like Liverpool, brilliant on their day, but way too inconsistent.

Perfect analysis and no one can argue with that

All except for the fact it didn't work.

Firmino is like Liverpool, brilliant on their day, but way too inconsistent.

Whats more concerning is that when one is good then rubs off on others very rarely seen someone drag us over the line on their own when playing bad or struggling to get through see Burnley.

I'm not even saying Jürgen is making a "mistake" I'm just saying I disagree with him. No problem with that, or Firmino who is a player I think has bags of talent. It just seems a bit daft to me though to constantly pretend he is having a blinder when he so obviously isn't. Then if anyone disagrees, we go into "berate and call a c***" mode.  Very odd.

Just frustrated reds around the world aren't uniting and backing the lads 100%.

All except for the fact it didn't work.

Because Firmino lost his man in defence and let a cross in...?

I think that is some peoples perception, that Firmino is playing centre forward, he's not, Klopp likes a fluid high pressing front 3 which is what he fielded.

Exactly.

Just frustrated reds around the world aren't uniting and backing the lads 100%.



Because Firmino lost his man in defence and let a cross in...?

No because the system of a false 9 failed to win us the game with goals; all against a defense that was screaming out for forwards to get behind them. Same as it cost us against Burnley too.

I think that is some peoples perception, that Firmino is playing centre forward, he's not, Klopp likes a fluid high pressing front 3 which is what he fielded.

You can call it whatever you want, but Firmino played the central 9 role and his impact on all three of our prem games has been poor.

May as well stick Henderson up top if you want someone to chase balls all afternoon.

No because the system of a false 9 failed to win us the game with goals; all against a defense that was screaming out for forwards to get behind them. Same as it cost us against Burnley too.

Which we did, but Lallana and Henderson couldn't pick a pass to set Mané away.

We also missed two chances we should've scored through Firmino creating those chances, and we got denied by a linesman who has laser vision.

How do you know Sturridge would have scored? All I am saying is Firmino split their defence open, pressed high (Studge can't do this hence the reason didn't play) got away from his marker and won the penalty. Remember, we did "score" but was ruled offside and it wasn't a "number 9" who put it into the back of the net.

We may as well sell "Studge" then if he's surplus to Klopp's requirements.

I think that is some peoples perception, that Firmino is playing centre forward, he's not, Klopp likes a fluid high pressing front 3 which is what he fielded.

Saturday's game simply means it wasn't fluid enough (otherwise we would've created tap in goals) and those front three need to brush up on their shooting.

Which we did, but Lallana and Henderson couldn't pick a pass to set Mané away.

We also missed two chances we should've scored through Firmino creating those chances, and we got denied by a linesman who has laser vision.

And you could have had an extra forward to dove-tail with Mane to get in behind their defense. Sturridge's movement and play off the last defender is second to none in this team and would have caused Spurs WAY more problems.

We've seen it against Spurs in the past - we've punished them before under a manager who exposed and annihilated their back line - with the movement and runners from the apex of our attack. You don't need to bring attackers back like you say we did with Firmino, you need them to move in and behind their defense. We made it way to easy for them.

The result is the proof in the pudding, we never exploited their weaknesses as often as we could have and we had nobody in the side clinical enough to score a goal from open play.

It seems a shame though that we cannot seem to appreciate each other's points of view. Instead the first person to agree with a particular point of view gets plussed and conversely a disagreement is blown out of proportion.

Fact is that we are 3 games into the new season...arguably two of the pre-season favourites for top 4 were played away from home and we came away with points. System aside, i really dont like that we are scapegoating some players so early this season.

Moreno, justifiably got some criticism...but i couldnt see any one person to signal for such criticism for the result against Spurs. We played well and if we were either more clinical or lucky, we could have won...then again the same applies to every single game we play.

I think that having watched many of the other top 4 rivals, we are in for a very hard slog this season to get up there. We cannot compete with their quality (Man Utd, City and Chelsea), however we can compete through a suitable formation, cohesion, understanding and through being more clinical. I suspect that after 3 games that is too soon to expect...so perhaps we can calm down a little??

I'm not even saying Jürgen is making a "mistake" I'm just saying I disagree with him. No problem with that, or Firmino who is a player I think has bags of talent. It just seems a bit daft to me though to constantly pretend he is having a blinder when he so obviously isn't. Then if anyone disagrees, we go into "berate and call a c***" mode.  Very odd.

Not sure if our posts crossed or not Mick - but that was not my intent.

I was just countering an earlier post that instinctively I agreed with - by noting that the Danny I've seen in last 18 months wasn't the same beast.