Is our academy failing?

From a distance things seem to be going pretty good to me,a good few talented players,huge problem is whether they will get the time to develop,the spotlight is always on for the next scouse legend. One thing for those that think the academy is failing,and if you're local,take a trip down there and watch a game and report back,might provide some insight.The u-18's play wba on saturday at 12.

I don't know  if FSG expect us to churn out these youngsters every year and sell them on at a profit but we all know it doesn't work that way. I know we played a young side in the cups but how else are these boys expect to gain experience. Maybe we should just wind the academy up and just buy experience if that's the case. I trust klopp to make some of these boys better, he's done it in the past.

I think all academy's at the 'bigger clubs' will fail to an extent nowadays, the pressure and money of the modern game doesn't allow the patience needed for them to develop, I dont think Utds class of '92 would happen nowadays because they didn't kick on around the first 6 months to a year, Hansen's famous you'll never win anything with kids line and all that, now that pressure would be multiplied in the media, by the fan Base who would want the club to spend some money to get there quicker...

If you look at us nowadays the fans don't have the patience to see a kids come in from nowhere, everyone k ows everything about every academy player, they are under pressure to succeed before they start.

You go back to even Fowler's age group, less than 1% of fans had heard of him before hys debut against Fulham in the league cup.. By the time Owen came around that was probably around 50% and those two were superb but did it under less of a spotlight. Now 90% of fans know of Woodburn and he has a handful of games and people want the club to sign a known name who can come in and hit the ground running. Say we do it pushes Woodburn further down the pecking order, his game time becomes less and his development slows even more until the stage he moves on at 21/22 with less and less chance of playing at the top level.

Fans want it a bit too much right now to have the patience for these kids to develop. The only ones that will are the absolute exceptional ones like Fowler,  Owen and Gerrard but they are once in a generation types and even then nowadays if they don't hit the ground running straight away the patience may well not be there.

For the record too I don't think academy's have that much to do with the development of a Gerrard or a Fowler, they are naturally talented and the mix of when they came through where they came through obviously counts but they are so talented, so more so than the current crop.

I do think there's a case of over development nowadays too, again those three nowadays with the hyper development, almost case studies they are, wrapped in cotton wool and not allowed to play park and school football like Robbie was, only being allowed to play in the environment of an academy, not even against old pros, real men in the reserve league's. . It stumps their development, it's a shock, the pace and brutality of first team football when they get it

Nowadays kids are more likely to come through lower league sides academy's like Southampton because the willingness and patience is there from the club and fans and the pressure isn't there from the media
The bigger clubs then go and buy the developed product

It's sad but true, I just don't see us or other big clubs for that matter developing like we used to do

There's a major difference between Liverpool now and Liverpool then, one that feeds into the fans view. When Fowler came through he had senior professionals in the likes of Rush, Barnes and Mølby, players with experience of winning big competitions. They were able to pass their experience onto the likes of Fowler, and take the pressure off him by carrying it on their own shoulders. After all, it had only been three years since we'd last won a title, one season since we'd last won a trophy. Who does Ben Woodburn have in this side that's won titles? Indeed, how many of the current squad last won a trophy as a first team player? Who does he have to draw experience from? For him, we haven't won a title in his lifetime and last time we won a trophy, he was twelve.

It was easier for Fowler to hit the ground running, not only because of his immense talent, but because he had less pressure on his shoulders and so was able to develop. So with this in mind, is it really the Academy that's failing Liverpool or is Liverpool's transfer policy failing the the Academy? Would we have so many failures if the players coming through had more experienced talent to learn from and less pressure on their shoulders because we were more successful? If the club wants its Academy to produce talent that can feed through to the first team, the club needs to look to a transfer policy that precludes the experience necessary to pass on to the next generation. Only then will you start to see returns on our youth investment.

Indeed, how many of the current squad last won a trophy as a first team player? Who does he have to draw experience from?

It's so sad that our fans belittle our players and dismiss their achievements.  A quick search throws up

Manninger
Lovren
Matip
Klaven
Milner
Moreno
Can
Lucas
Henderson
Gini
Lallana
Sturridge
Coutinho
Mane

Have all won trophies, including European ones and League Titles but no, our kids have nobody to learn off 

Oh and just to add Clyne and Gomez have also won International trophies playing for England.

There's probably more but 16 players with winners medals is more than enough I'd have thought.

It's so sad that our fans belittle our players and dismiss their achievements.  A quick search throws up

Manninger
Lovren
Matip
Klaven
Milner
Moreno
Can
Lucas
Henderson
Gini
Lallana
Sturridge
Coutinho
Mane

Have all won trophies, including European ones and League Titles but no, our kids have nobody to learn off 

Oh and just to add Clyne and Gomez have also won International trophies playing for England.

There's probably more but 16 players with winners medals is more than enough I'd have thought.

A cursory check reveals:

Moreno won one cup with Seville. If you want him as a role model for our youth Academy you're daft in the head.
Henderson won one cup with Liverpool.
Lallana won the Football League Trophy. A competition for lower division clubs.
Mane had one successful season in the Austrian Bundesliga.
Klavan won two league titles and a Supercup. One in the Netherlands, the others in Estonia.
Lucas, at senior level, won the league cup with us in 2012, and two league titles in Brazil where he made 38 appearances in 3 years.
Matip won the German equivalent to the FA Cup and Super Cup. He has no league titles to his name.
Manninger is not a first team player. He's not even a squad player. He's made a grand total of no appearances for Liverpool.
Sturridge won honours by association, not action. He was not a first team player.
Coutinho won honours by association, not action. He was not a first team player.
Emre Can honours are by association, not act, all coming with Bayern Munich with whom he made four appearances.

Of our most successful players:

Gini is by far our most experienced player when it comes to winning, but has hasn't won anything in England. It could be argued that Milner is our most experienced player when it comes to winning things in England but he was a squad player at City where the honours were achieved, so it's debatable how much influence he had on their success.

Let's compare this to Rush who won five league titles, two European Cups, three FA Cups, five League Cups and two Charity Shields. Or Mølby who won three league titles, three FA Cups and a league cup with us, or of the trio mentioned, Barnes who won a paltry two League Titles, two FA Cups and a League cup. The differences in the level of experience between the 1993-94 Squad and the 2016-17 season can not be compared. Perhaps next time you should be the one doing your research. Until we get experience throughout the squad, until we start winning things, the pressure to instantly perform will continue.

A cursory check reveals:

Moreno won one cup with Seville. If you want him as a role model for our youth Academy you're daft in the head.
Henderson won one cup with Liverpool.
Lallana won the Football League Trophy. A competition for lower division clubs.
Mane had one successful season in the Austrian Bundesliga.
Klavan won two league titles and a Supercup. One in the Netherlands, the others in Estonia.
Lucas, at senior level, won the league cup with us in 2012, and two league titles in Brazil where he made 38 appearances in 3 years.
Matip won the German equivalent to the FA Cup and Super Cup. He has no league titles to his name.
Manninger is not a first team player. He's not even a squad player. He's made a grand total of no appearances for Liverpool.
Sturridge won honours by association, not action. He was not a first team player.
Coutinho won honours by association, not action. He was not a first team player.
Emre Can honours are by association, not act, all coming with Bayern Munich with whom he made four appearances.

Of our most successful players:

Gini is by far our most experienced player when it comes to winning, but has hasn't won anything in England. It could be argued that Milner is our most experienced player when it comes to winning things in England but he was a squad player at City where the honours were achieved, so it's debatable how much influence he had on their success.

Let's compare this to Rush who won five league titles, two European Cups, three FA Cups, five League Cups and two Charity Shields. Or Mølby who won three league titles, three FA Cups and a league cup with us, or of the trio mentioned, Barnes who won a paltry two League Titles, two FA Cups and a League cup. The differences in the level of experience between the 1993-94 Squad and the 2016-17 season can not be compared. Perhaps next time you should be the one doing your research. Until we get experience throughout the squad, until we start winning things, the pressure to instantly perform will continue.

Ah sorry, my misunderstanding but when you ask this "Indeed, how many of the current squad last won a trophy as a first team player?" but really what you meant was that the calibre of trophies and the clubs they win them with and the leagues they've been won in is actually more important than whether they've won anything.

WHAT A F***ing SNOB!!

F***ing hate how our players are belittled and ridiculed for having won nothing or achieved nothing when there's plenty of them that have.

You remember all those great players we had when we were winning everything - go do some F***ing research of what they'd won BEFORE THEY ARRIVED AT LIVERPOOL!!

Ah sorry, my misunderstanding but when you ask this "Indeed, how many of the current squad last won a trophy as a first team player?" but really what you meant was that the calibre of trophies and the clubs they win them with and the leagues they've been won in is actually more important than whether they've won anything.

WHAT A F***ing SNOB!!

F***ing hate how our players are belittled and ridiculed for having won nothing or achieved nothing when there's plenty of them that have.

You remember all those great players we had when we were winning everything - go do some f**king research of what they'd won BEFORE THEY ARRIVED AT LIVERPOOL!!

Rather than tossing insults around, go and read the post I quoted in my first reply. What those players won prior to joining us has no bearing on what I wrote since they weren't academy graduates. Then at least what I wrote might make sense. Furthermore, for the record, if thinking that winning the equivalent of the FA Cup in one of Europe's minor leagues or warming the bench whilst the rest of the team wins the league is insufficient preparation for Premier League title challenges and European glory then yes, I am an unashamed snob. If you'd care to debate that with me, feel free without the insults.