Virgil Van Dijk (Southampton)

https://twitter.com/LFCZA/status/894969319926497281

https://twitter.com/LFCZA/status/894969319926497281

Interesting as if you look on James Pearce's timeline you can't find this...if you go to his articles you can't find this....If you listen to the latest podcast he was on you can't find this.

So we don't have a sell to buy policy?

Look, if we sell a player for a lot of money, of course we'll have a low net spend.
It stands to reason.

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me which players we have forced out in order to buy other players, because it's not adding up, this alleged "sell to buy".

Do we need more players?
Yes, but that's down to Klopp, not FSG.

I dint think that players have been forced out BUT I have got no doubts that FSG's approach to transfers is very very different once they have off loaded our best player. They were dragging their heels on the Suarez deal for a couple of weeks a few years ago, evidently were not willing to pay the asking price, it was only when they sanctioned the sale of Torres that the deal went through swiftly. Same applies to our transfer business once Suarez had been sold, no messing, the transfers all happened fairly quickly ie. Firmino no fuss at £30 million. Would the club have paid that price so readily for him had Suarez not been sold? Maybe they would but I suspect they would have spent several weeks haggling as is their way with most transfers and risked losing the player to another club.

The club might not have an official sell to buy policy as such but FSG are stingy feckers in the transfer market unless they have just made a big sale. As for putting it all on Klopp re this window there be a little bit of that (in terms of him only wanting certain players) but we dont know that for sure and FSG have a pretty poor track record so it's hardly unreasonable for posters to be pointing the finger in their direction.

Interesting as if you look on James Pearce's timeline you can't find this...if you go to his articles you can't find this....If you listen to the latest podcast he was on you can't find this.

Many apologies,  looking at lfcza's timeline there are loads of quotes from wee jimmy krankie (pearce)

I dint think that players have been forced out BUT I have got no doubts that FSG's approach to transfers is very very different once they have off loaded our best player. They were dragging their heels on the Suarez deal for a couple of weeks a few years ago, evidently were not willing to pay the asking price, it was only when they sanctioned the sale of Torres that the deal went through swiftly. Same applies to our transfer business once Suarez had been sold, no messing, the transfers all happened fairly quickly ie. Firmino no fuss at £30 million. Would the club have paid that price so readily for him had Suarez not been sold? Maybe they would but I suspect they would have spent several weeks haggling as is their way with most transfers and risked losing the player to another club.

The club might not have an official sell to buy policy as such but FSG are stingy feckers in the transfer market unless they have just made a big sale. As for putting it all on Klopp re this window there be a little bit of that (in terms of him only wanting certain players) but we dont know that for sure and FSG have a pretty poor track record so it's hardly unreasonable for posters to be pointing the finger in their direction.

Commoli did both deals.
Got his pants pulled down by Mike Ashley as well.

But here's where I'm confused; the same people who say we have a "sell to buy" policy are now unable to back that up, so they say "they spent the Suarez money on x (whoever) so that proves we sell to buy"
It doesn't. it only means that they used the money for a player who wanted out to buy other players, and to be honest I find that not only an incoherent argument, but astoundingly stupid.
I'd be a lot more worried if a player wanted out for a big amount but then we didn't spend any of it.

I can't get worked up about them not putting their own money into transfers, because they always said the club would only spend what it makes.

Klopp met with Pellegrino today, so we should expect an announcement to be made shortly.

Pellegrino came with nothing but left the meeting with a bag in hand... 

It's done. You heard it here first.

Was John Henry's head in it ?


YNWA

Well, if this is all they make (re: spending what LFC generate), they need to sort their business model out

Well, if this is all they make (re: spending what LFC generate), they need to sort their business model out

Do you advocate spending for the sake of it then?
Seems to me we had managers in the past who took that approach, and it didn't end well.

If Klopp wants to hold out for his top targets, that's down to him.
We have plenty of money, it's up to him to spend it.

Commoli did both deals.
Got his pants pulled down by Mike Ashley as well.

But here's where I'm confused; the same people who say we have a "sell to buy" policy are now unable to back that up, so they say "they spent the Suarez money on x (whoever) so that proves we sell to buy"
It doesn't. it only means that they used the money for a player who wanted out to buy other players, and to be honest I find that not only an incoherent argument, but astoundingly stupid.
I'd be a lot more worried if a player wanted out for a big amount but then we didn't spend any of it.

I can't get worked up about them not putting their own money into transfers, because they always said the club would only spend what it makes.

I think you have missed my point entirely. FSG (whether it's Commoli, Ayre or Edwards - they are effectively the FSG mouthpiece) have been sh*te in the transfer market IMO. The only time they appear to get things wrapped up quickly ie. Not haggling after every last penny, or dropping out the minute Spurs or Chelsea or whoever show some competition for a players signature is when they have just punted one of our top players for a big sum.

In many ways they do operate a sell to buy policy because of the stark contrast in how they do business after a big sale compared to seasons where the money coming in (from player sales) has been much less.

I don't really understand why you are so touchy when they are criticised? You have defended them to the hilt for several years.

Mmm, some reporting phil's representatives are in spain to sort the deal and others say Barcelona's representatives are over here, i say bullshit

I think you have missed my point entirely. FSG (whether it's Commoli, Ayre or Edwards - they are effectively the FSG mouthpiece) have been sh*te in the transfer market IMO. The only time they appear to get things wrapped up quickly ie. Not haggling after every last penny, or dropping out the minute Spurs or Chelsea or whoever show some competition for a players signature is when they have just punted one of our top players for a big sum.

In many ways they do operate a sell to buy policy because of the stark contrast in how they do business after a big sale compared to seasons where the money coming in (from player sales) has been much less.

I don't really understand why you are so touchy when they are criticised? You have defended them to the hilt for several years.

Who's touchy?
Certainly not me, although this stupid internet "tactic" of saying something you can't possibly know is certainly boring.

I'm also not "defending them to the hilt".
Maybe I just look at things differently, as do many others not onboard with the whole conspiracy sh*te that festers on here.

They don't "sell to buy", the club does work on recruitment and potential transfers all year round (the same as every other club), and sometimes we don't get the players we want, but other times we do (just like every other club).

We have to work within a budget, because we haven't got an oil oligarch owner, just like 99.999% of clubs.
So no, I haven't missed any point, I just think the point is bollocks.
Now if you can point out a single club in the world that gets every single transfer right, I'll agree with you, but I've got far too much experience of transfer windows to believe anything that's said.

If we don't buy, it's down to Klopp.
He's the decision maker on all this, unless of course you're going to go down the BR route and call him a liar, stooge and "FSG mouthpiece" whatever that means.

We're a lot better at buying when we've just sold. That might not be sell to buy as such but it's not a million miles off. I hope it doesn't happen but if Coutinho goes you watch how quickly the next two or three transfers get done. There will be a total change in strategy.

We're a lot better at buying when we've just sold. That might not be sell to buy as such but it's not a million miles off. I hope it doesn't happen but if Coutinho goes you watch how quickly the next two or three transfers get done. There will be a total change in strategy.

Really?

Because to me, we have our lists of players, and backups, and we prioritise according to the budget, and who the manager wants to get in first.
The club will already have made initial contact with a players agent, about whether they'd be open to a move, including those further down the list and backups.
All of a sudden, we get an influx of money we hadn't expected, so everything gets ramped up a couple of gears.
I've seen it dozens of times, with different clubs.
Spurs did it with the Bale money, are their owners nefarious plotters as well?

It'[s a big F***ing stretch from normal ways of doing business to "buy to sell", and you're pretty much clutching at straws.

While we're about it, and going by your assertion that we're so sh*te at this, which other top four (or top 6) team has done loads of business and has got all their top targets?

Do you advocate spending for the sake of it then?

No

No

So if we assume (and I know that's dodgy ground) that Klopp wants his top targets or none at all, what are we to do?

Really?

Because to me, we have our lists of players, and backups, and we prioritise according to the budget, and who the manager wants to get in first.
The club will already have made initial contact with a players agent, about whether they'd be open to a move, including those further down the list and backups.
All of a sudden, we get an influx of money we hadn't expected, so everything gets ramped up a couple of gears.
I've seen it dozens of times, with different clubs.
Spurs did it with the Bale money, are their owners nefarious plotters as well?

It'[s a big f**king stretch from normal ways of doing business to "buy to sell", and you're pretty much clutching at straws.

While we're about it, and going by your assertion that we're so sh*te at this, which other top four (or top 6) team has done loads of business and has got all their top targets?

Dude this definitely comes across as a little bit touchy!

You only have to look at some of the examples of botched transfers. Take Mo Salah for instance, I think it was three years ago we were in for him in the January window. We haggled over the price for two weeks (evidently no one else was in for him at that time) and then in come Chelsea, £11 million on the table, job done, player gone. 11 fracking million, what was the hold up? There shouldn't have been any problem getting that deal across the line. And then the joke of it is we pay more than three times that to get him this summer and LINE Chelsea's bloody pockets with a slice of the cash to boot. It's classic FSG. We were after Willian (I think it was the season before), we were the only side in for him initially and they were playing hard ball on the price. In came Spurs with a better offer and we dropped out of the chase immediately, of course then the chavs came in at the last minute and guzumped Spurs. Hindsight is of course a lovely thing but for the price they paid they got a pretty good deal I think most would agree, he's top pro and a really good player. FSG don't appear to go head to head with other clubs for players, they just bug the fu...ck out at the first inkling of a bidding war. Take the Clint Dempsey saga, £7 million they wanted for him, on deadline day! We'd just sold Andy Carroll and we're lacking in strikers. FSG wouldn't sanction the deal, what a joke but that's classic FSG mate. I'm sure I could drag up some others but that's the way the club do business for much of the time under this lot. The only time it's any different is when they've just sold the crown jewells and they need some quick PR with the fan base. As for this summer, you might be right about Klopp calling the shots in terms of who we go after but I do not believe he controls how we go about it. Take Keita, we got two weeks of hearing a bid was imminent, it's coming, wait for it, here it comes, oh they said no. Then another two weeks of wait for it, wait for it, here's it comes, oh they said no. Just put the frickin bid in, if we get a no why the big wait? Go back in with another bid and save all that wasted time. Then compare us to Chelsea. Evidently Lukaku was their number one target, they think they've got it in the bag, the skum steal in and buy him from under their noses. Two days later, bid on for Morata, player signed job done. I'll have some of that please. Or I'll happily have some of Daniel Levy's clever mix of being a stubborn fu...ck when it comes to selling their best players (he always gets the top price he can) and aggressiveness on deadline day. Yes please. But no, we've had stat machine Damien Commoli, the hapless Ian Aye, a frickin transfer committee and then back to another stat merchant moneyball lover in Michael Edwards. And you wonder why some many of us sing "you don't know what your doing".

I just really wish we would put in a bid and stop pussy-footing around. Southampton pretty much have to sell him now. Just put a big number in front of them so we can get this done and not be dragging it into the season as a distraction.

Sometimes we have such a small club mentality. I mean look at Barca, they have their PR machine in full effect trying to tap up Coutinho through the media ( and likely behind the scenes too) and we just let them get away with it. Why don't we report them to UEFA?

So if we assume (and I know that's dodgy ground) that Klopp wants his top targets or none at all, what are we to do?

Other than question Klopp's strategy in the transfer market, there's not much we can do.

But it seems to me that FSG won't spend anything other than what the club earns, and Klopp won't settle for anything other than his first choice players. Both together, I don't think we're doing ourselves many favours here.

Sometimes you have to speculate to accumulate. That doesn't mean go mental, it means sometimes you have to push the boat out a little bit further.

Dude this definitely comes across as a little bit touchy!

You only have to look at some of the examples of botched transfers. Take Mo Salah for instance, I think it was three years ago we were in for him in the January window. We haggled over the price for two weeks (evidently no one else was in for him at that time) and then in come Chelsea, £11 million on the table, job done, player gone. 11 fracking million, what was the hold up? There shouldn't have been any problem getting that deal across the line. And then the joke of it is we pay more than three times that to get him this summer and LINE Chelsea's bloody pockets with a slice of the cash to boot. It's classic FSG. We were after Willian (I think it was the season before), we were the only side in for him initially and eye were playing hard ball on the price. In came Spurs with a better offer and we dropped out of the chase immediately, of course then came in at the last minute and guzumped Spurs. Hindsight is of course a lovely thing but for the price they paid they got a pretty good deal I think most would agree, he's top pro and a really good player. FSG don't appear to go head to head with other clubs for players, they just bug the fu...ck out at the first inkling of a bidding war. Take the Clint Dempsey saga, £7 million they wanted for him, on deadline day! We'd just sold Andy Carroll and we're lacking in strikers. FSG wouldn't sanction the deal, what a joke but that's classic FSG mate. I'm sure I could drag up some others but that's the way the club do business for much of the time under this lot. The only time it's any different is when they've just sold the crown jewells and they need some quick PR with the fan base. As for this summer, you might be right about Klopp calling the shots in terms of who we go after but I do not believe he controls how we go about it. Take Keita, we got two weeks of hearing a bid was imminent, it's coming, wait for it, here it comes, they said no. Then another two weeks of wait for it, wait for it, here's it comes, they said no. The compare us to Chelsea. Evidently Lukaku was their number one target, they think they've got it in the bag, the skum steal in and buy him from under their noses. Two days later, bid on for Morata, player signed job done. I'll have some of that please. Or I'll happily have some of Daniel Levy's clever mix of being a stubborn fu...ck when it comes to selling their best players (he always gets the top price he can) and aggressiveness on deadline day. Yes please. But no, we've stat machine Damien Commoli, the hapless Ian Aye and then back to another stat merchant moneyball lover in Michael Edwards. And you wonder why some many of us sing "you don't know what your doing".

 
It's just the way I type, nothing touchy about me.

Look, clubs sometimes make deals, and sometimes they don't, it really is that simple.
There's no plot, there's no conspiracy, although yes, being human, sometimes we F**k things up.

Then there's value.
We laughed our arses off at city paying 50 million quid for Sterling, but the point is that it was within their budget, so they could do it.
Sometimes (like with Dempsey) the manager decides "no, he isn't worth the price or what he wants in wages", and on that occasion I agreed 100%.
Remind me where he is now and how he did at Spurs?

So, we either have a budget we stick to, or we land ourselves in debt again.
Do you really want that to happen?
Yes, I know a certain amount of debt is good for the club (and any other company come to that) but not debt which threatens our existence as we saw under h&g.

We're actually a lot better at transfers now that at any time since KK was here first time, apart from Rafa maybe, but his squad was truly lacking in depth.
We have a cracking first team that could do with a couple more, a squad with a lot more depth.
I don't see the problem, and if there is one, it's down to Klopp not buying because he couldn't get his first choice.

Other than question Klopp's strategy in the transfer market, there's not much we can do.

But it seems to me that FSG won't spend anything other than what the club earns, and Klopp won't settle for anything other than his first choice players. Both together, I don't think we're doing ourselves many favours here.

Sometimes you have to speculate to accumulate. That doesn't mean go mental, it means sometimes you have to push the boat out a little bit further.

Well FSG were very clear about that from the start, so I find it hard to get worked up about them not putting their own money in.

With Klopp, if it is the case that he only wants his first choice, well, that's his call, and his head on the block if it fucks up.

I agree with speculate to accumulate, but it appears that Klopp thinks very differently.

Still, there's 3 weeks or so to go, and a lot can happen in that time.
CB the priority for me.

Take Mo Salah for instance, I think it was three years ago we were in for him in the January window. We haggled over the price for two weeks (evidently no one else was in for him at that time) and then in come Chelsea, £11 million on the table, job done, player gone. 11 fracking million,

It's a poor debate because he was not half the player he is today and we paid more for the finished product.

You can't go back in hindsight and just buy loads of players based off of potential...you can do it here and there but you simply cannot do it in mass.

We took plenty of flyers on paper that at the time were just as highly rated as Mo Salah was when he was 21.

Markovic
Aspas
Luis Alberto
Alberto Moreno
Shay Ojo
Assiadi
Origi
Illori

How did most of those work out?

We had over a dozen young players come back off of loan that year....there are hit's and misses but you can't look in the rear view mirror and say "we blew that one he got away from us"

Chelsea can do that, we can't afford to.

Christ you could build a half-decent premier league side off of the players that Chelsea has let slip away or thrown away.

It's just the way I type, nothing touchy about me.

Look, clubs sometimes make deals, and sometimes they don't, it really is that simple.
There's no plot, there's no conspiracy, although yes, being human, sometimes we f**k things up.

Then there's value.
We laughed our arses off at city paying 50 million quid for Sterling, but the point is that it was within their budget, so they could do it.
Sometimes (like with Dempsey) the manager decides "no, he isn't worth the price or what he wants in wages", and on that occasion I agreed 100%.
Remind me where he is now and how he did at Spurs?

So, we either have a budget we stick to, or we land ourselves in debt again.
Do you really want that to happen?
Yes, I know a certain amount of debt is good for the club (and any other company come to that) but not debt which threatens our existence as we saw under h&g.

We're actually a lot better at transfers now that at any time since KK was here first time, apart from Rafa maybe, but his squad was truly lacking in depth.
We have a cracking first team that could do with a couple more, a squad with a lot more depth.
I don't see the problem, and if there is one, it's down to Klopp not buying because he couldn't get his first choice.

Mate, it wasn't the manager who made the call on Dempsey, Rodgers wanted him and was evidently aghast that the plug was pulled on such a small deal by his bosses. Regardless of where Dempsey is now they should have backed him, particularly given they had just pocketed a few quid on Andy Carroll. The same dithering cost us the Salah deal a few years ago and here we are, we've got the player for an additional £25 million.

As for Sterling, I wasn't laughing dude, it was pretty obvious he would be a good signing for them and despite a bit of inconsistency he has been. 21 goals and 31 assists in two seasons is not to be sniffed and he will only get better. We could have done with some of that over the last couple of seasons.

I can't subscribe to the 'that's the way the cookie crumbles' sometimes they come through, sometimes they don't philosophy quite so readily and I'll continue hoping that FSG off load the club to someone with the conviction to make us contenders again. Unfortunately that will only happen once they are satisfied they have achieved a more significance return on their investment.

I thought Carroll went on loan before the Dempsey thing happened.

And really, Dempsey was in the MLS less than a year later.