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      LFC Reds Poll

      Q. Should Klopp pick a new captain?

      Yes.
      73 (52.1%)
      No.
      67 (47.9%)

      Total Members Voted: 134

      Should Klopp pick a new captain?

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      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Should Klopp pick a new captain?
      Reply #414: Oct 29, 2017 07:15:54 pm
      F***ing L - the posters glum winding each other down.

      We f**king won, what the f**k do ya want, blood?

      Criticising Henderson after yesterday's win is no different to you criticising FSG with every chance you get Stuey. We F***ing won, so what the F**k do ya want, blood?

      I'm only 29 so I didnt see the glory days of the 70s and 80s but even in my lifetime I've seen more than enough to confidently state that Jordan Henderson isn't good enough for this club, never mind captain it.
      stuey
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      Re: Should Klopp pick a new captain?
      Reply #415: Oct 29, 2017 08:58:27 pm
      Criticising Henderson after yesterday's win is no different to you criticising FSG with every chance you get Stuey. We F***ing won, so what the F**k do ya want, blood?

      I'm only 29 so I didnt see the glory days of the 70s and 80s but even in my lifetime I've seen more than enough to confidently state that Jordan Henderson isn't good enough for this club, never mind captain it.

      I do not criticise FSG without reason, their failings are well documented.
      In contrast Henderson has good games and occasionally not so good games, no reason to vilify the player as you and soft lad do.

      How many of our present players rank with the greats of the 70's and 80's?
      Henderson is nearer than some.

      He is just a convenient whipping boy for you and soft lad in your subtle wum campaign, off you pop nobhead.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Should Klopp pick a new captain?
      Reply #416: Oct 29, 2017 09:58:16 pm
      In contrast Henderson has good games and occasionally not so good games.
      What a bunch of utter c**p that is. Occasionally is very incorrect as the quantitative statement here.
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Should Klopp pick a new captain?
      Reply #417: Oct 29, 2017 10:46:41 pm
      I do not criticise FSG without reason, their failings are well documented.
      In contrast Henderson has good games and occasionally not so good games, no reason to vilify the player as you and soft lad do.

      How many of our present players rank with the greats of the 70's and 80's?
      Henderson is nearer than some.

      He is just a convenient whipping boy for you and soft lad in your subtle wum campaign, off you pop nobhead.

      You don't think FSG are good owners for Liverpool, that's fine, something I agree with too. But other people may disagree with you, I've seen plenty of people defend them, so would they be in their right to call you a wum too then?

      I don't think Henderson is good enough for liverpool. That's my opinion as a season ticket holder who's been going the match since I was 5.

      Because you disagree that makes me a wum and a nobhead? Turn it in.

      Your annoyance of criticism fired towards Henderson is no different to my annoyance of the praise he gets from lover boys like you when he has played dog sh*t and has given a performance not worthy of a liverpool captain or even a liverpool player.





      stuey
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      Re: Should Klopp pick a new captain?
      Reply #418: Oct 29, 2017 11:03:58 pm
      What a bunch of utter c**p that is. Occasionally is very incorrect as the quantitative statement here.

      In the context of performance 'occasionally' or very occasionally is a suitable assessment of the players performance, borne out in his selection for international duties and consistent first team appearances.

      You of course have some God given gift that enables you to dismiss the judgement of JĂźrgen Klopp and the England selection committee.

      Why are you wasting everyone's time on an LFC forum.
      Magillionare
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      Re: Should Klopp pick a new captain?
      Reply #419: Oct 30, 2017 07:22:42 am
      When we lose it's the captains fault for not pulling the team through. Using that logic, I'm giving all credit to Hendo for the victory. Well in captain. All credit to you.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Should Klopp pick a new captain?
      Reply #420: Oct 30, 2017 08:00:33 am
      When we lose it's the captains fault for not pulling the team through. Using that logic, I'm giving all credit to Hendo for the victory. Well in captain. All credit to you.
      making up arguments in your head are you? Nobody is reviewing Henderson on results, but they are his performances.
      Magillionare
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      Re: Should Klopp pick a new captain?
      Reply #421: Oct 30, 2017 08:04:46 am
      making up arguments in your head are you? Nobody is reviewing Henderson on results, but they are his performances.

      Nah there's been plenty of times we've lost and people just blame him when none of the team performed. This thread and the 200 other anti Henderson threads are the busiest on the forum when we lose, because it's always his fault.

      Using that logic, he gets all the credit when we win. Excellent work Hendo, what a man.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Should Klopp pick a new captain?
      Reply #422: Oct 30, 2017 08:25:33 am
      Nah there's been plenty of times we've lost and people just blame him when none of the team performed. This thread and the 200 other anti Henderson threads are the busiest on the forum when we lose, because it's always his fault.

      Using that logic, he gets all the credit when we win. Excellent work Hendo, what a man.
      with 0 goals and 0 assists it's quite a strange attribute of credit.
      Magillionare
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      Re: Should Klopp pick a new captain?
      Reply #423: Oct 30, 2017 08:28:56 am
      with 0 goals and 0 assists it's quite a strange attribute of credit.

      Well now you know how I feel when I see him getting the blame despite making 0 mistakes and making sure we retain the ball, which is exactly his role
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Should Klopp pick a new captain?
      Reply #424: Oct 30, 2017 09:13:37 am
      Well now you know how I feel when I see him getting the blame despite making 0 mistakes and making sure we retain the ball, which is exactly his role
      Not many people criticize him for mistakes, it is his useless balls. I will give him credit for two things yesterday.

      1) His pass to Milner in the box.
      2) His rebound shot that hit the post after the saved penalty.

      If he did that more often rather than spending most of the time collecting the ball from the defense to pass to another midfielder, quite often side ways... it would really be better.
      Imagine when the postman comes, do you need somebody to pass a letter to somebody to pass the letter to you?
      Same thing, it's like how many people does it change to take a lightbulb?
      When we can only pick 11 players, we need all of them to be doing something useful.
      People often credit him for having the most passes, but miss out the point that the passes were not always necessary.
      I would argue that having Hendo at DM makes our play negative.

      Lovren---> Hendo
                          |
                            |
                              |
                                ---> Gini ---> Firmino

      Lovren ------> Gini --------> Firmino

      This being just one scenario where Hendo being a middle man, when the defense should be able to pass to midfielders on their own. Increases chance of play breaking down, increases the play in our own half and that is where we concede goals.
      Sure Hendo gets the ball back in the defense sometimes, I am not saying we don't need a DM, I am saying we don't need a DM collecting 3673678367386738 passes from the defense. Henderson should be freed up to get involved more instead of our fall backs going out of position.

      Summary

      Somewhere inside Henderson is a good player, collecting the ball to pass to another midfielder is like having a rocket scientist teach maths to 5 year olds. I am not debating his football ability but his ability to be a captain.
      Henderson is a follower not a leader and until he gets out of this sideway pass, defence collection he is merely a passenger.
      « Last Edit: Oct 30, 2017 09:26:00 am by Ribapuru »
      stuey
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      Re: Should Klopp pick a new captain?
      Reply #425: Oct 30, 2017 09:53:00 am
      making up arguments in your head are you? Nobody is reviewing Henderson on results, but they are his performances.

      Scapegoating is not 'reviewing' in whatever sense.
      Scotia
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      Re: Should Klopp pick a new captain?
      Reply #426: Oct 30, 2017 10:01:55 am
      Scapegoating is not 'reviewing' in whatever sense.

      Spot on Stuey.

      The fact this thread is still rumbling is an indictment of some individuals on here more than Jordan Henderson.

      Stevie Wonder can see that.

      Actually Ray Charles can and he’s dead never mind blind!

      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Should Klopp pick a new captain?
      Reply #427: Oct 30, 2017 12:13:41 pm
      Vast majority of captains have something about them. Whether that's putting their body on the line like a Carragher, somebody with the ability to win you a game like a Suarez, somebody who can read the game better than others like a Sami or ideally somebody who can do all three like a Stevie.  I would describe those four players as winners. Leaders. Players with grit and determination.

      I wouldn't ever describe Jordan as a leader or a winner. I definitely don't see any grit or determination in his game either. He is a coward. A shithouse.

      Henderson will never be remembered as a great captain or even a great player so I don't understand why some of you kid yourselves.  None of our rivals would touch him with a  barge pole, they have far better players and for us, he should be a squad player and nothing more. I'm a believer in that your captain should be the first name on your team sheet and that is definitely not Jordan Henderson.

      Just wait until Keita comes and you Henderson fans will soon see the difference between the quality and what we've been missing out on for all this time.

      Nobody is scapegoating him at all. We went to Spurs and got drilled. Our midfield was a joke that day and Henderson was at the heart of it. He was the biggest culprit for 5 yard, sideways passing in the first half on Saturday too and the crowd were starting to get on his back a little bit because we're all getting sick of it now, so to come on here and see statements like 'he was the best player on the pitch by a mile' just isn't true one bit.

      If anything, people are over hyping and praising him for either very basic performances or just plain sh*te ones.

      I don't think I've ever seen a Liverpool game where I've come away thinking Henderson bossed that...he was the best player on the pitch. I cant remember Henderson ever making a crunching tackle. I cant remember Henderson ever grabbing a game by the scruff of the neck. I cant even remember Henderson running forward with the ball charging at the opposition.

      The only good thing about him is he is energetic when we don't have the ball and is fairly quick to cover ground, but unfortunately for him 80% of our games every season we dominate play so that goes out the window.

      Bottom line is we need far better quality in the middle of the park than what Jordan offers us. If you disagree then I'd go as far as saying you're delusional. For a club who believes we should be fighting for league titles and European honours then Henderson just isn't good enough at that level. Brutal truth.
      Scotia
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      Re: Should Klopp pick a new captain?
      Reply #428: Oct 30, 2017 12:29:48 pm

      He is a coward. A shithouse.......I'd go as far as saying you're delusional......Brutal truth.

      Few extracts, for me, that completely undermine an otherwise reasonable argument.

      They’re not facts - they’re opinions. Just like mine and that of others who value what he does bring.

      It’s makes the post dogmatic and hectoring.

      For what my opinion is worth - I’m on record as rating the kid - BUT I always hope we sign better. Same goes for everyone in the squad all the time.

      He wouldn’t be the first I’d replace - that’s for sure.

      « Last Edit: Oct 30, 2017 12:34:45 pm by Scotia »
      stuey
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      Re: Should Klopp pick a new captain?
      Reply #429: Oct 30, 2017 12:37:51 pm
      Few extracts that completely undermine an otherwise reasonable argument.

      They’re not facts - they’re opinions. Just like mine and that of others who value what he does bring.

      It’s makes the post dogmatic and hectoring.

      For what my opinion is worth - I’m on record as rating the kid - BUT I always hope we sign better. Same goes for everyone in the squad all the time.

      He wouldn’t be the first I’d replace - that’s for sure.



      Ad hominem remarks are his last resort when his opinion is found to be merely that, pointing out the fact does give rise to remarks of a personal nature indicating a lack of credibility.
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Should Klopp pick a new captain?
      Reply #430: Oct 30, 2017 01:51:09 pm
      Few extracts, for me, that completely undermine an otherwise reasonable argument.

      They’re not facts - they’re opinions. Just like mine and that of others who value what he does bring.

      It’s makes the post dogmatic and hectoring.

      For what my opinion is worth - I’m on record as rating the kid - BUT I always hope we sign better. Same goes for everyone in the squad all the time.

      He wouldn’t be the first I’d replace - that’s for sure.

      Of course its opinion.

      Do you want me to use stats? In that case, Bobby Firmino wouldn't be seen as good enough because he doesn't score enough goals as our number 9 compared to the likes of Kane, Aguero etc. But I think Bobby is good enough, and he's a player I'd want to keep hold of, so stats don't always tell the whole story.

      It always boils down to opinions and yours differs from mine, stueys differs from mine, and that's fine. I don't call anybody a wum or a nobhead for thinking Henderson is good enough for us so I'm not sure how my post could be described as hectoring. I might be surprised at your opinions and call you a little bit delusional though.

      I base my opinion on a lot of things but I think it's fair to say he wouldn't get a game for any of the sides who finished above us last season or any of the top sides around Europe. I also think its fair to say he isn't fit to lace the boots of the previous captains/midfielders we've had in the past too. Haven't our standards therefore dropped if our fans believe Henderson is good enough for us?

      The title of this thread is 'should klopp pick a new captain'. I've already said that in my opinion your captain should be the first name on the team sheet. Jordan Henderson isn't ours. He isn't even in our top 5 or 6. I'd put Coutinho, Mane, Salah, Firmino, Lallana, Matip, Clyne and even Can in the team before I bother to consider Henderson.

      I also think that when your captain leaves the pitch they should be able to look themselves in the mirror and honestly say that he gave everything he had and that's not something I think Henderson can do either.  I do not remember him ever bossing a game to the point he was the best player on the pitch. Can has, Wijnaldum has, Lallana has. I've never seen Hendo do it.  I don't remember him ever flying into a 50-50 and completely taking somebody out getting a roar and a cheer from the crowd. Likewise I don't remember him ever charging forward with the ball with his team mates running alongside him in support, like Gerrard did. Its unfair comparing him to a man like Stevie who was the best of his generation but you get my point.

      He is not a winner. He is not a leader. That's my opinion you're right.

      But fast forward the clock to 12 months and I'm confident you will all be saying what a player Keita is who will be head and shoulders above anybody on our books right now.



      « Last Edit: Oct 30, 2017 01:55:17 pm by HamannsTheMan »
      Scotia
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      Re: Should Klopp pick a new captain?
      Reply #431: Oct 30, 2017 01:56:46 pm
      Of course its opinion.

      Do you want me to use stats? In that case, Bobby Firmino wouldn't be seen as good enough because he doesn't score enough goals as our number 9 compared to the likes of Kane, Aguero etc. But I think Bobby is good enough, and he's a player I'd want to keep hold of, so stats don't always tell the whole story.

      It always boils down to opinions and yours differs from mine, stueys differs from mine, and that's fine. I don't call anybody a wum or a nobhead for thinking Henderson is good enough for us so I'm not sure how my post could be described as hectoring. I might be surprised at your opinions and call you a little bit delusional though.

      I base my opinion on a lot of things but I think it's fair to say he wouldn't get a game for any of the sides who finished above us last season or any of the top sides around Europe. I also think its fair to say he isn't fit to lace the boots of the previous captains/midfielders we've had in the past too. Haven't our standards therefore dropped if our fans believe Henderson is good enough for us?

      The title of this thread is 'should klopp pick a new captain'. I've already said that in my opinion your captain should be the first name on the team sheet. Jordan Henderson isn't ours. He isn't even in our top 5 or 6. I'd put Coutinho, Mane, Salah, Firmino, Lallana, Matip, Clyne and even Can in the team before I bother to consider Henderson.

      I also think that when your captain leaves the pitch they should be able to look themselves in the mirror and honestly say that he gave everything he had and that's not something I think Henderson can do either.  I do not remember him ever bossing a game to the point he was the best player on the pitch. Can has, Wijnaldum has, Lallana has. I've never seen Hendo do it.  I don't remember him every flying into a 50-50 and completely taking somebody out getting a roar and a cheer from the crowd. Likewise I don't remember him ever charging forward with the ball with his team mates running alongside him in support, like Gerrard did. Its unfair comparing him to a man like Stevie who was the best of his generation but you get my point.

      He is not a winner. He is not a leader. That's my opinion you're right.

      But fast forward the clock to 12 months and I'm confident you will all be saying what a player Keita is who will be head and shoulders above anybody on our books right now.





      Stats are subjective as well fella.

      I’m happy you acknowledge your “facts” and “truths” are just opinions like the rest of us mortals.

      Onwards and upwards.
      billythered
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      Re: Should Klopp pick a new captain?
      Reply #432: Oct 30, 2017 03:02:45 pm
      Vast majority of captains have something about them. Whether that's putting their body on the line like a Carragher, somebody with the ability to win you a game like a Suarez, somebody who can read the game better than others like a Sami or ideally somebody who can do all three like a Stevie.  I would describe those four players as winners. Leaders. Players with grit and determination.

      I wouldn't ever describe Jordan as a leader or a winner. I definitely don't see any grit or determination in his game either. He is a coward. A shithouse.

      Henderson will never be remembered as a great captain or even a great player so I don't understand why some of you kid yourselves.  None of our rivals would touch him with a  barge pole, they have far better players and for us, he should be a squad player and nothing more. I'm a believer in that your captain should be the first name on your team sheet and that is definitely not Jordan Henderson.

      Just wait until Keita comes and you Henderson fans will soon see the difference between the quality and what we've been missing out on for all this time.

      Nobody is scapegoating him at all. We went to Spurs and got drilled. Our midfield was a joke that day and Henderson was at the heart of it. He was the biggest culprit for 5 yard, sideways passing in the first half on Saturday too and the crowd were starting to get on his back a little bit because we're all getting sick of it now, so to come on here and see statements like 'he was the best player on the pitch by a mile' just isn't true one bit.

      If anything, people are over hyping and praising him for either very basic performances or just plain sh*te ones.

      I don't think I've ever seen a Liverpool game where I've come away thinking Henderson bossed that...he was the best player on the pitch. I cant remember Henderson ever making a crunching tackle. I cant remember Henderson ever grabbing a game by the scruff of the neck. I cant even remember Henderson running forward with the ball charging at the opposition.

      The only good thing about him is he is energetic when we don't have the ball and is fairly quick to cover ground, but unfortunately for him 80% of our games every season we dominate play so that goes out the window.

      Bottom line is we need far better quality in the middle of the park than what Jordan offers us. If you disagree then I'd go as far as saying you're delusional. For a club who believes we should be fighting for league titles and European honours then Henderson just isn't good enough at that level. Brutal truth.



      Gotta agree with this although I'll stop short of calling him cowardly & a shithouse, that's being disrespectful, if I'm honest, look Henderson is a average player playing in a side that is going forward he's at the optimum of his playing ability, that won't be improved on, he cannot sustain a consistent performances like Gerrard did week in week out, how often did Stevie drag us over the line, how often did he set examples ?

      Jordan is nowhere near the level Gerrard performed at every week, that's the difference and thats what we want from a captain, decent player nice lad and all that but so was Stevie, Greame, Jocky, Sami et al ,

      Simple fact is he lacks leadership, that and his restricted abilities, make him for me a very weak captain and leader of men !


      YNWA

      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Should Klopp pick a new captain?
      Reply #433: Oct 30, 2017 03:51:04 pm
      Simple fact is he lacks leadership, that and his restricted abilities, make him for me a very weak captain and leader of men !

      That's a very kind and polite way of calling him a shithouse  :D

      Good post and agree with all of it. Don't mean to disrespect hendo, he always comes across as a nice bloke and professional,  it's just a term I would use at the match or down the pub.

      I think the weight of carrying the armband for LFC is far too heavy for him and his capabailities. He just isn't good enough.



      Magillionare
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      Re: Should Klopp pick a new captain?
      Reply #434: Oct 30, 2017 03:57:57 pm
      What are the attributes of these "leadership skills" that keep being talked about?
      Scotia
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      Re: Should Klopp pick a new captain?
      Reply #435: Oct 30, 2017 04:02:03 pm
      That's a very kind and polite way of calling him a shithouse  :D

      Good post and agree with all of it. Don't mean to disrespect hendo, he always comes across as a nice bloke and professional,  it's just a term I would use at the match or down the pub.

      I think the weight of carrying the armband for LFC is far too heavy for him and his capabailities. He just isn't good enough.





      Interesting thing language isn’t it.

      Where I’m from a “shithouse” would be more extreme than what you’re referring to.

      Up here it goes beyond weakness / inadequacy (which I think you’re meaning) and into sly / devious / self-serving etc.

      More malicious than incompetent.

      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Should Klopp pick a new captain?
      Reply #436: Oct 30, 2017 04:22:52 pm
      Interesting thing language isn’t it.

      Where I’m from a “shithouse” would be more extreme than what you’re referring to.

      Up here it goes beyond weakness / inadequacy (which I think you’re meaning) and into sly / devious / self-serving etc.

      More malicious than incompetent.

      If you go to anfield and see somebody back out of a challenge for example you would hear the term shithouse mumbled around the ground.

      Even something smaller like bottling a pass forwards when somebody makes a run and you'll hear it.

      It's not a term I'd find offensive personally. Its just calling him a wimp with no bottle.

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