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      Where Do We Stand With FSG If There Are No More Signings?

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      LFCSTEVE1984
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      Where Do We Stand With FSG If There Are No More Signings?
      Aug 24, 2017 11:13:46 pm
      Ok so at the minute we still have a few days to make some signings so this might be a bit premature, but...

      I just wanna know what the general feeling is.

      I mean this is the big window. The one where all the stars aligned.

      We've got owners who will compete with anyone in the world.

      We've got shitloads of money from TV deals, previous windows, final league placement and champions league qualification.

      We've got the world class manager, and...

      We've got the highly sought after lure of the champions league that all of the best players want.

      Seemingly everything you need to land the best players is in place and yet here we are with tumble weeds rolling past those places in Melwood where new signings usually stand.

      If this window ends like so many of the others under FSG, taking into consideration all of the things above in what should theoretically be the biggest window we have had under their ownership.

      Where do we go with regards to FSG if we really do not sign anyone else before the window slams shut?

      Serious question, do you think it will be the beginning of a nasty situation.

      Will the banners come out, will fans finally start to see them for what they are, will we see protests, or...

      Will we take their predictable apology/pr spin and carry on as usual after another disappointing transfer window.

      Edit:

      Some good arguements on the other side here thanks for replying. Should really add them in to the thread.

      Has Klopp shot him self in the foot by being to narrow in his selection of targets.

      Surely a manager as good as him has enough knowledge of football to have a shortlist of more than one player in each position.

      I mean maybe you could argue that Keita has all the specific qualities that he thinks will really suit the team.

      But there are probably 50 central defenders better than Lovren and the fact that we don't have a back up to VVD is unavailable really.

      Or is he simply seeing our players and rating them that highly that he honestly thinks there is nobody better?

      Worrying if true.

      Then if it's not FSG or Klopp... Is it Michael Edwards?

      Has he fu**ed us up with inept transfer dealings and negotiations.

      Has Jürgen given him a list of players like Salah, Keita and VVD. Told him they are the players I want and if not then you need to find me alternatives with virtually the same qualities.

      Only to then receive a call saying Southampton won't budge but we have identified another player Younès Kaboul. Big, strong, good in the air.

      (I know that the VVD situation was fu**ed for tapping up just using it to get my point across)

      Where do you stand.

      P.s. Sorry if it's in the wrong section/too early please move/delete as necessary.
      « Last Edit: Aug 25, 2017 07:00:00 am by LFCSTEVE1984 »
      AZPatriot
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      Re: Where Do We Stand With FSG If There Are No More Signings?
      Reply #1: Aug 24, 2017 11:23:00 pm
      It's a good question.

      If this is the case 

      We've got shitloads of money from TV deals, previous windows, final league placement and champions league qualification.

      Then I think a question should be placed at the managers and the sporting directors feet.


      Because I don't know where you go from

      Speaking to the Liverpool Echo, when asked whether he feels he has the backing of FSG this summer, Klopp replied: “100%. What else could I say? If they could make it quicker, you can imagine they would be here and trying. It’s not about money or something like this.”

      https://www.anfieldhq.com/Jürgen-klopp-says-money-isnt-issue-frustrating-pursuit-virgil-van-dijk-naby-keita/



      and


      We are not afraid of big numbers at the club, we are not afraid to spend,” Klopp told Goal as part of an exclusive interview.

      http://www.talkaloadofbull.com/en-us/news/liverpool-are-not-scared-of-making-big-bids-for-the-right/bbfesj90mwpj14n56hui7q18t

      and

      Liverpool manager Jürgen Klopp says there is no such thing as a "plan B or C" when it comes to the club's transfer targets in the remaining weeks of the window.

      "If we bring in players, we bring in players because I want them. That's how I see it," he told a news conference ahead of Liverpool's Premier League opener with Watford.

      "There will not be a plan B, plan C or whatever. The players I bring in will be plan A. I cannot bring in a player just to buy a player."

      Read more at https://www.fourfourtwo.com/us/news/klopp-insists-there-no-plan-b-liverpool-transfer-targets#vHOzfuygsjz6qCQr.99



      I really don't know where to go...my first instinct is Edwards not being able to get the job done or the manger being stubborn.

      I am very confused by all of this.
      fields of anny rd
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      Re: Where Do We Stand With FSG If There Are No More Signings?
      Reply #2: Aug 24, 2017 11:23:51 pm
      I guess it all depends.

      Is it Klopp being stubborn in wanting VVD and Keita or nothing? The other theory is that the money isn't there and our advances of those two players were merely stunts to fool the fans.

      Sounds implausible really, but then so does the idea that Klopp can only think of those two players on the planet that can improve us.

      The situation genuinely has me baffled, but either way I can't help but feel short changed by the window.

      Champions League football was sold to us as the holy grail for attracting the top names to the club but that has clearly not materialised.

      Funny policy from Klopp though if it is his idea to go into the season with what we have, but then i'm sure FSG are not complaining!
      AZPatriot
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      Re: Where Do We Stand With FSG If There Are No More Signings?
      Reply #3: Aug 24, 2017 11:27:06 pm
      The other theory is that the money isn't there and our advances of those two players were merely stunts to fool the fans.

      That really is the only other way it could be...ie there is no real money in which case what does that make the manager.

      Culpable, Naive or in cahoots?

      Personally if we don't buy anyone I truly hope it is because he is stubborn or Edwards is a neophyte (my personal feeling) because the alternative is down right frightening.
      « Last Edit: Aug 24, 2017 11:50:34 pm by AZPatriot »
      Magillionare
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      Re: Where Do We Stand With FSG If There Are No More Signings?
      Reply #4: Aug 24, 2017 11:53:58 pm
      It's interesting.

      At the moment I think if you're claiming conspiracy theories and FSG having Klopp on a string like a puppet, you need to stop watching House of Cards.

      I think the owners have shown that they are willing to spend money, we would not have broken the clubs transfer record this season and also had a huge bid for Keita rejected, so saying 'our owners won't spend money' isn't completely accurate.

      The flaws now come from what happens if we cannot get Plan A... Do we have a Plan B? For all the stick we give the transfer committee I think it's clear we were not being sold a bag of lies about Klopp being the final say in all activity. The significant drop in the volume of player intake correlates with Jürgen arriving and matches his spending patters at BVB.

      So I don't know what to think now. I think we have FSG who are owners who are willing to spend on the right player, and a manager who is willing to spend on the right player... But our shortlist has to be bigger than 2 surly.

      I've always said I'm waiting until the window shut to give a final assessment. If we don't get anyone else in I won't be happy with the entire transfer machine at LFC, and that includes Klopp wether some of us are willing to admit that or not.
      AZPatriot
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      Re: Where Do We Stand With FSG If There Are No More Signings?
      Reply #5: Aug 25, 2017 12:03:34 am
      It's interesting.

      At the moment I think if you're claiming conspiracy theories and FSG having Klopp on a string like a puppet, you need to stop watching House of Cards.

      I think the owners have shown that they are willing to spend money, we would not have broken the clubs transfer record this season and also had a huge bid for Keita rejected, so saying 'our owners won't spend money' isn't completely accurate.

      The flaws now come from what happens if we cannot get Plan A... Do we have a Plan B? For all the stick we give the transfer committee I think it's clear we were not being sold a bag of lies about Klopp being the final say in all activity. The significant drop in the volume of player intake correlates with Jürgen arriving and matches his spending patters at BVB.

      So I don't know what to think now. I think we have FSG who are owners who are willing to spend on the right player, and a manager who is willing to spend on the right player... But our shortlist has to be bigger than 2 surly.

      I've always said I'm waiting until the window shut to give a final assessment. If we don't get anyone else in I won't be happy with the entire transfer machine at LFC, and that includes Klopp wether some of us are willing to admit that or not.

      If I was the owner..I think I would be telling Jürgen...Hey appreciate you not wasting money but surely you could use a little help...do me a favor and go grab a little depth.

      I mean honestly you get a top flight CB in there next to Matip and keep Coutinho were looking pretty damn good.

      FB- Clyne, Trent, Robertson, Moreno...Gomez as a fill in
      CB- Matip, Lovren, Klaven, Gomez......Here is the weakest area on the pitch
      Mid- Coutinho, Lallana, Henderson, Can, Gini, Milner, Gruijc
      Forwards- Bobby, Mane, Salah, Studge, Solanke, Origi

      It's so glaringly obvious that if you bring in a VVD or at least better than Lovren it makes all the difference in the world..with that player you have a really decent 20-22 man squad; you can rotate with confidence, move people around tactically in-game and from the bench...just opens up all types of opportunities.
      « Last Edit: Aug 25, 2017 12:14:31 am by AZPatriot »
      JD
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      Re: Where Do We Stand With FSG If There Are No More Signings?
      Reply #6: Aug 25, 2017 01:10:41 am
      I think they are ruthless businessmen off the field, well versed at getting sponsorship deals - I mean come on 'Official tool suppliers', 'Official tyre suppliers' etc etc.  Impressive - I'd imagine they've had to give up a fair number of corporate seats and executive boxes along the way but still.

      On the pitch however, they don't seem to know as much, or they've not hired the right people or structure in the 'scouting/transfer commitee/negotiating' side of the business.

      As I said, Champions League qualification from a business point of view is a bit of a poisoned chalice.  Yes you may get an extra 40/50/60M but that's soon swallowed up in player/staff bonuses and the demand from us fans for a couple of £50M players and their £10M salaries.

      Having said that, they've managed to land a decent manager, who fits with the club, and brought in some good players, and appeared to stand up to clubs looking to poach players.

      This transfer window however hasn't been sparkling and with underspends in previous years and the progression on the pitch the squad is only a couple of big injuries away from being exposed.

      So I don't know what to think now. I think we have FSG who are owners who are willing to spend on the right player, and a manager who is willing to spend on the right player... But our shortlist has to be bigger than 2 surly.

      Yeah, sounds fair.
      JD
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      Re: Where Do We Stand With FSG If There Are No More Signings?
      Reply #7: Aug 25, 2017 01:13:47 am
      CB- Matip, Lovren, Klaven, Gomez......Here is the weakest area on the pitch

      I'd add goalkeeper to that.

      Those three positions in that triangle at the back are in need of serious strengthening.  Lucas was playing there last year when the injuries were kicking in and we've still not strengthened it.

      5timesacharm
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      Re: Where Do We Stand With FSG If There Are No More Signings?
      Reply #8: Aug 25, 2017 02:17:26 am
      I don't blame FSG - insofar as 'FSG' being the people with the money - one iota for the mess of this Summer. The blame clearly lies at Michael Edward's door because it's his job to do the planning, not the money men's; And that's the problem this Summer, a lack of planning. It's an admirable stance to say we're not going to bring in players worse than we have and that at least avoids the problems of last time we faced Champions League football, but like last time the problem arrsies from a lack of alternatives.

      There are undoubtedly people we could get that would improve the first team, let alone the squad but we've spent the entire Summer chasing after two unobtainable targets. Well one was obtainable but he couldn't even do that right. If FSG are serious about challenging and have changed their business model and finally realise that investment needs to be forthcoming, they need to get an experienced DoF in to work with Klopp, not this clown we have now.
      AZPatriot
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      Re: Where Do We Stand With FSG If There Are No More Signings?
      Reply #9: Aug 25, 2017 03:02:19 am
      There are undoubtedly people we could get that would improve the first team, let alone the squad but we've spent the entire Summer chasing after two unobtainable targets. Well one was obtainable but he couldn't even do that right. If FSG are serious about challenging and have changed their business model and finally realise that investment needs to be forthcoming, they need to get an experienced DoF in to work with Klopp, not this clown we have now.

      I agree 100% for the life of me I don't know why Jürgen seems happy to go along with it all; I really don't.
      FL Red
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      Re: Where Do We Stand With FSG If There Are No More Signings?
      Reply #10: Aug 25, 2017 03:36:46 am
      Edwards is a clown, Jürgen can't very well come out and say that. FSG appointed Edwards and can "unappoint" him but they haven't. That tells me that they don't mind not having to reach in to their pockets. I can only hope Klopp is voicing what should be his displeasure behind the scenes and that alternate plans will be executed in short order. If Jürgen doesn't force something here with Edwards and FSG or if he doesn't have a plan B to get some quality additions (that aren't first choice) then he's wrong and it will likely hurt us and that part is on him. This is the best chance we have had in a long time to put ourselves back where we want to be (deserve to be?). If we cock this up, everyone involved needs to be held accountable.
      king kenny
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      Re: Where Do We Stand With FSG If There Are No More Signings?
      Reply #11: Aug 25, 2017 04:22:16 am
      What is a so-called plan B? Is it Ballotelli like players.   Klopps has been buying good players that have been making an impact on the squad and first team.  We are all desperate for signing.  But is it not about successful recruits.  I read a lot of post and think that too many people want us to splash the cash.  We are desperate but I don't want us to  make rash decisions.   Klopp should choose the players he really wants. 
      HScRed1
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      Re: Where Do We Stand With FSG If There Are No More Signings?
      Reply #12: Aug 25, 2017 07:58:07 am
      Seems to me like Klopp doesn't like what is being presented as the second choices.

      Hardly surprising if you look at what was presented to Brendan after Suarez left.
      Munch101
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      Re: Where Do We Stand With FSG If There Are No More Signings?
      Reply #13: Aug 25, 2017 08:53:19 am
      FSG like to buy cheap and sell high.
      They are at a club that traditionally has brought through some good young players and then ended up selling them for a lot of money. This works in FSG's favour, they look like they're investing in young talent that could be the next Messi but in reality they end up being an average 20M player that they can sell for a 500% profit.

      Roman Ibramovic IS a sports club owner and that's why Chelsea are winners at the moment (as much as I hate them).
      He doesn't care about sell on price and will splash the cash for players in their prime and doesn't care about their youth.
      If FSG did a little bit of cash splashing and a little bit of nurturing the youth we'd be really successful.

      At the start of the transfer window plenty of Journos were reporting 'Liverpool won't spend 100M this transfer window.....It'll be 200M'. Well where are the signings then? Solanke on basically a free (perfect for FSG) Robertson a young home grown player that will cost 10M more than usual because he's british in 3 years time (perfect for FSG). Salah, ONE signing of actual intent and I think we only got him because he was a bloody bargain! He could have easily gone for 60M in this current climate.

      The only thing that has improved for Liverpool FC since they took over is our Net worth which has sky rocketed to nearly 1Billion since they took over.
      Lucky them, Unlucky Liverpool fans.
      heimdall
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      Re: Where Do We Stand With FSG If There Are No More Signings?
      Reply #14: Aug 25, 2017 09:52:01 am
      Seems to me like Klopp doesn't like what is being presented as the second choices.

      Hardly surprising if you look at what was presented to Brendan after Suarez left.

      Ok but do you believe then that Klopp has no opinion on specific players himself and that he just tells Edwards/TC that he needs a LB, a winger, a CM etc?
      Personally my gut feeling is that the money has been there this summer but we are being far to selective and stubborn in our targets. You must always have a couple of options which you pursue in every transfer window, for example manure originally wanted Morata but had Lukaku as a backup, vice versa for the chavs and it looks like that worked out quite well for them. With us it looks like we've just had one player for each position and I have a feeling that the blame for that lies more with Klopp than anyone else.
      The solution is to have a top notch sporting director take care of all this and that Klopp's only input in the whole matter is to say what type of player he needs, although he would of course have a say and a veto on any individual player.
      heimdall
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      Re: Where Do We Stand With FSG If There Are No More Signings?
      Reply #15: Aug 25, 2017 09:55:09 am
      FSG like to buy cheap and sell high.
      They are at a club that traditionally has brought through some good young players and then ended up selling them for a lot of money. This works in FSG's favour, they look like they're investing in young talent that could be the next Messi but in reality they end up being an average 20M player that they can sell for a 500% profit.

      Roman Ibramovic IS a sports club owner and that's why Chelsea are winners at the moment (as much as I hate them).
      He doesn't care about sell on price and will splash the cash for players in their prime and doesn't care about their youth.
      If FSG did a little bit of cash splashing and a little bit of nurturing the youth we'd be really successful.

      At the start of the transfer window plenty of Journos were reporting 'Liverpool won't spend 100M this transfer window.....It'll be 200M'. Well where are the signings then? Solanke on basically a free (perfect for FSG) Robertson a young home grown player that will cost 10M more than usual because he's british in 3 years time (perfect for FSG). Salah, ONE signing of actual intent and I think we only got him because he was a bloody bargain! He could have easily gone for 60M in this current climate.

      The only thing that has improved for Liverpool FC since they took over is our Net worth which has sky rocketed to nearly 1Billion since they took over.
      Lucky them, Unlucky Liverpool fans.

      A great example here is Coutinho, oh hang on they haven't sold him, hmm seems your argument falls down a little bit there, in fact the only 2 high profile players sold under FSG are Torres and Suarez who both agitated for moves and certainly weren't pushed out by the owners wanting to make a profit. Honestly this perception of the owners always looking to make a quick book out of players is pure fantasy. I will 100% agree that they have under invested in players so far but to say they always sell our best players is utter crap.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Where Do We Stand With FSG If There Are No More Signings?
      Reply #16: Aug 25, 2017 10:24:45 am
      Ok but do you believe then that Klopp has no opinion on specific players himself and that he just tells Edwards/TC that he needs a LB, a winger, a CM etc?
      Personally my gut feeling is that the money has been there this summer but we are being far to selective and stubborn in our targets. You must always have a couple of options which you pursue in every transfer window, for example manure originally wanted Morata but had Lukaku as a backup, vice versa for the chavs and it looks like that worked out quite well for them. With us it looks like we've just had one player for each position and I have a feeling that the blame for that lies more with Klopp than anyone else.
      The solution is to have a top notch sporting director take care of all this and that Klopp's only input in the whole matter is to say what type of player he needs, although he would of course have a say and a veto on any individual player.

      I doubt Klopp has the time to also carry out the scouting for the club, do you also want him to run the club!

      He probably gave his first choice targets Edwards and Co - VVD and Keita and then would expect the club to identify similar targets.

      I agree that we should have a top quality DoF and have said as much many times.

      Cad1875
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      Re: Where Do We Stand With FSG If There Are No More Signings?
      Reply #17: Aug 25, 2017 10:27:48 am
      Our targets were picked the fact 2 were NOT for sale should not see Liverpool nearing the end of the transfer window with the hole in the doughnut irrespective of who or what position needs improving.Yeah I know Salah ,Robbo and Dom Im very happy these guys are on board but its not enough we are a goal machine with a few flaws needing looked at..

      IMO our squad demands better quality players they should be sourced and bought, our world should not come to an end because VVD or Keita are not available to us at this moment in time, to have us in a situation with money burning a hole to buy players  I find it ridiculous for the club to be in this position, I suppose if Jurgens happy it destroys my post ,so my reply would be  why have a war chest and make large about it being the biggest in Liverpool history and not spend the f**king stuff.

      I think the fans deserve and have earned the right to see better quality in a red shirt  after the long slog we went through to get to the CL I`d like to stay in it for a while rather than get bounced out early due to injuries or errors that had a better chance of not happening if the position had been filled by a better more superior player in that position , as I say to be hanging on a yes or no with one week to go for players with millions to spend is just wrong pay the piper and move on if they dont want to sell theres nowt you can do but Im sure a few more zeros will see it have a better chance off coming to fruition.

      YNWA
      « Last Edit: Aug 25, 2017 10:49:17 am by Cad1875 »
      5timesacharm
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      Re: Where Do We Stand With FSG If There Are No More Signings?
      Reply #18: Aug 25, 2017 11:00:18 am
      What is a so-called plan B? Is it Ballotelli like players.   Klopps has been buying good players that have been making an impact on the squad and first team.  We are all desperate for signing.  But is it not about successful recruits.  I read a lot of post and think that too many people want us to splash the cash.  We are desperate but I don't want us to  make rash decisions.   Klopp should choose the players he really wants.

      Plan B is the same as Plan A. Identify a range of players who can improve us and move through the list in an attempt to sign one. That's how it works at every other club. For us, Plan A is a list of one player in each position and we can never sign anyone else. Or are you seriously suggesting there isn't another Center Back out there that we could get who would improve on Lovren, let alone Klavan. Or Mignolet? Or a box-to-box midfielder who might not be as good as Kieta but would still give us a creativity and energy in midfield we currently lack? Or an out-and-out Striker who is better than Origi and less injured than Sturridge? This is the 'transfer comittee's' job and Edwards is the guy in charge of that process so the buck clearly stops with him.
      stuey
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      Re: Where Do We Stand With FSG If There Are No More Signings?
      Reply #19: Aug 25, 2017 11:27:20 am
      I agree 100% for the life of me I don't know why Jürgen seems happy to go along with it all; I really don't.

      What would be the implication to LFC if Klopp were not happy "to go along with it all"?
      Could you imagine the manager having such a regard for this club that he will do his utmost to ensure that obstacles are negotiated with the best interests of the club taking priority?

      It does seem a contradiction that another party excluding the owners, would be seen as the one that tackles perceived obstacles created by those same custodians in the quest for a claimed common goal.
      Something is definitely not kosher about the above arrangement, if Jürgen were to say "F**k it I'm outa here", the shitstorm is unimaginable.
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: Where Do We Stand With FSG If There Are No More Signings?
      Reply #20: Aug 25, 2017 11:38:28 am
      Don't necessarily agree with it but it is pretty clear Jürgen only wants his first choice targets and isn't interested in second choices or alternatives unless an opportunity presents itself,  don't like the idea of not adding anyone but looks like we will have to live with it
      redkop63
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      Re: Where Do We Stand With FSG If There Are No More Signings?
      Reply #21: Aug 25, 2017 12:00:19 pm
      So, my off season predictions on players' purchase is almost going to come true in a week's time or so.

      1. FSG will only buy one player in excess of 30-35 mil, no more. Anything and everything after that is just to keep the fans hopeful and interested until the start of the season.

      2.  They will buy a few 10 to 15 mil players. Free is even better. That's a lot of money to FSG, that's their generous budget and their  standard against Chelsea, Man City etc. If the manager makes a lot of noise spend another 25 mil on one player. That's it, no more and don;t ask for anymore money.

      3.   Groom the young players and throw them into the first team by hook or crook. If they failed, then think of something else.

      4.  Make sure we have enough squad players to put 11 players on the field in every match. Talk about the standards of players that we have later. 

      Isn't this the pattern in the last 7 or 8 years? It's getting all too familiar guys, can't we all see that? As much as I would like to say otherwise, I honestly can't. I believe this is what FSH is all about. Let's not fool ourselves. Where did all the money that we made go? Ask FSG.

      Who is this Edwards guy? Has he got any formal experience in the football world? Or he came from a baseball background. Not surprising, FSG loves to put the wrong fellow for important post. The only thing that they got it right so far is hiring Klopp.

      Sorry guys, don't flame me, that's my personal observation no malice intended.



      « Last Edit: Aug 25, 2017 12:11:43 pm by redkop63 »
      Brian78
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      Re: Where Do We Stand With FSG If There Are No More Signings?
      Reply #22: Aug 25, 2017 12:00:44 pm
      Lads the easy option here is blame the owners while overlooking the fact the boss said he had no plan b signings. Of all the players in all the world he earmarked 3 to improve us. Got 1 failed to date with the others.

      Excuse me if im out of order but who the f**k sets out to improve creating a shortlist of 3 players?? Not buying for the sake of it is fine but how many centre halves are out there who can deal with crosses better than our lot? VVD the only one available?

      Madness

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