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      Manchester City 5-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion

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      bazspeedman
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
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      Re: Manchester City 5-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #780 : Sep 10, 2017 09:48:39 am »
      Yes we will a load of games and it will always be good entertainment, but we will win f**k all. Nothing, None of our defenders and all of our keepers would get in another side in the top 10 in most leagues in Europe. Absolutley horrendous defence, Moreno, Klavan, Mignolet, Lovren, f**k me.

      Maybe Klopps 4th season will iron out the defensive issues.
      rossyred
      • Forum Ian Callaghan
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      Re: Manchester City 5-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #781 : Sep 10, 2017 10:07:34 am »
      Looking over that match again, Aguero's two goals are haunting me, because a simple knock through the gap between the defenders, and a player running through onto the ball. It was so easy, I'm sure many of us would slot those away, and we're supposed to be fielding top drawer defenders. That was sunday league defending, and how do you get them to raise their game after having the piss taken like that.
      Our problematic defence has become a MAJOR problem now.

      I agree but sometimes defending balls like that is difficult but thats the difference Firminho not as likely to make them runs because he is not as quick and not as natural for him to make runs like that. Natural strikers will make runs like that all day and if you have good technical midfielders able to supply the balls you will create many a chance
      HScRed1
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      Re: Manchester City 5-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #782 : Sep 10, 2017 10:22:59 am »
      I agree but sometimes defending balls like that is difficult but thats the difference Firminho not as likely to make them runs because he is not as quick and not as natural for him to make runs like that. Natural strikers will make runs like that all day and if you have good technical midfielders able to supply the balls you will create many a chance

      How often do you see goals conceded like that?

      That was really Sunday league defending from midfield and the back line not interested in keeping they're shape and it's something that has been bugging me for a while, you just need to look at Gini and Can's work off the ball it's virtually non existent.

      Maybe a stronger Captain could have forced them into making a greater effort to keep shape.

      It's done know and I'm sure Klopp will be seething.

      sore monad
      • Forum Emlyn Hughes
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      Re: Manchester City 5-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #783 : Sep 10, 2017 10:29:01 am »
      Depressing result. Obviously the sending off was massive and without it I highly doubt we would have got beaten badly like that.
      However, as everyone is saying ( how many times do we keep repeating it?) our defence isn't good enough. Going down to 10 really exposed the fact that we can't defend, because it meant that we couldn't press higher up. We had to sit deep and just defend and we couldn't do it, they just opened us up time and again.

      No surprises, of course. We sold our only decent left sided defender in the summer ( fair enough, since he had disvciplnary issues) and didn't replace him. All we did was buy 1 LB, who apparently isn't a first team starter.

      We stuck with the same goalie. I was prepared to live with that, except 3 games in to the season we drop him and try somebody else for a game, so it looks like we don't really have a first choice goalie we really believe in.

      Why would we expect our defence to get better on this basis?
      David Wright
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      Re: Manchester City 5-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #784 : Sep 10, 2017 11:20:48 am »
      Seemingly a long, up and down season ahead. There will be no change unless Klopp, can sort out the defence.
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: Manchester City 5-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #785 : Sep 10, 2017 03:01:37 pm »
      https://twitter.com/442oons/status/906863592099635201

      Better than the shitty analysis on motd
      beardo number 7
      • Forum Matt Busby
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      Re: Manchester City 5-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #786 : Sep 10, 2017 03:25:32 pm »
      Think it's the first time ever I haven't been able to pick a MOTM,all for the wrong reasons too 💩
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Manchester City 5-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #787 : Sep 10, 2017 04:04:19 pm »
      How can anyone vote the keeper mom ?

      Probably cos without him it could of easily have been 7 or 8.
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: Manchester City 5-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #788 : Sep 10, 2017 04:28:11 pm »
      'Liverpool's 5-0 loss to Man City must be put in context'

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41215027
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Manchester City 5-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #789 : Sep 10, 2017 04:31:03 pm »

      Just not by that bluenose c**t, Mcnulty!

      Alfie2510
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      Re: Manchester City 5-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #790 : Sep 10, 2017 08:42:10 pm »
      Was on a plane Saturday so (gladly) missed Saturdays game.
      From what I can bear to look back on, actually not as seething as I was after Watford. Fine margains and it could have been a very difference result. Salah makes it 1-0, Mane gets his toe to that ball and who knows.
      Let's bounce back Wed night. Sat is gone let's move on, worst thing would be if it gets in our head and affects us doing what we're good at moving forward.
      Danzel
      • Forum Billy Liddell
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      Re: Manchester City 5-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #791 : Sep 11, 2017 01:19:51 am »
      When we beat Arsenal, we were annoyed by the lack of acknowledgement from the pundits. We felt like we didn't get enough credit for our attacking play. They said it was due to Arsenal being poor, not due to us playing amazingly well and making them look like sh*t.

      What is it this game? Did we concede 5 because our defence / team was sh*t or because they made us look sh*t? The truth is probably somewhere in between.

      9 out of 10 games at the Etihad, teams park the bus and it's down to them to break it down. 9 times out of 10, they do manage to break it down and put 2 or 3 past 11 men. That's teams with 11 men that train on their shape a whole week to try and keep them out. We were down to 10 men for an hour, at the Etihad, against along with us and Spurs, probably the best attacking side in the league and the best at what they do, breaking down the bus. Which is why I think there was no point in us trying to sit deep only try and limit the damage. We didn't have the players on the pitch nor the bench to sit deep and invite pressure.

      Our defence certainly has its weaknesses, I fully agree, but it's still a defence and a team that kept 7 clean sheets out of 9 games before that. It's certainly not as bad as most of you make it out to be.
      « Last Edit: Sep 11, 2017 01:30:23 am by Danzel »
      HScRed1
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      Re: Manchester City 5-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #792 : Sep 11, 2017 07:45:31 am »
      When we beat Arsenal, we were annoyed by the lack of acknowledgement from the pundits. We felt like we didn't get enough credit for our attacking play. They said it was due to Arsenal being poor, not due to us playing amazingly well and making them look like sh*t.

      What is it this game? Did we concede 5 because our defence / team was sh*t or because they made us look sh*t? The truth is probably somewhere in between.

      9 out of 10 games at the Etihad, teams park the bus and it's down to them to break it down. 9 times out of 10, they do manage to break it down and put 2 or 3 past 11 men. That's teams with 11 men that train on their shape a whole week to try and keep them out. We were down to 10 men for an hour, at the Etihad, against along with us and Spurs, probably the best attacking side in the league and the best at what they do, breaking down the bus. Which is why I think there was no point in us trying to sit deep only try and limit the damage. We didn't have the players on the pitch nor the bench to sit deep and invite pressure.

      Our defence certainly has its weaknesses, I fully agree, but it's still a defence and a team that kept 7 clean sheets out of 9 games before that. It's certainly not as bad as most of you make it out to be.

      8 goals conceded in 4 PL games, joint second worst in the league, of course the defence is not all that bad.  :D



      MIRO
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      Re: Manchester City 5-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #793 : Sep 11, 2017 08:04:32 am »
      All we had to do is make the pitch smaller and pack the defence.
      For the whole of the rest of the game.   Two lines of four .......Mourinho did it to us a couple of games back with Utd.
      He had 6 across the back at one time.

      KEEP Mo Salah  ON to keep them occupied and hope we could get an an Arse type goal with him.



      It would have been something. Anything.
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: Manchester City 5-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #794 : Sep 11, 2017 08:21:59 am »
      All we had to do is make the pitch smaller and pack the defence.
      For the whole of the rest of the game.   Two lines of four .......Mourinho did it to us a couple of games back with Utd.
      He had 6 across the back at one time.

      KEEP Mo Salah  ON to keep them occupied and hope we could get an an Arse type goal with him.



      It would have been something. Anything.

      Agreed on salah, yeah his finishing should have been better but he had Otamendi on toast and could easily have drawn another yellow
      Ebieahi
      • Forum Kevin Keegan
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      Re: Manchester City 5-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #795 : Sep 11, 2017 08:31:23 am »
      Im sorry, but when are we going to do something about our defence? I know its hindsight, but i would have though that JK would play his most solid defensive team away at one of the biggest rivals for the title. Positionally our backline was all over the place, there needs to be consistency and some sort of partnership formed and if Matip is the mainstay, then Klopp needs to choose his partner and stick with him coz the chop and change is not helping.

      Then onto our midfield...after the sending off, i expected the midfield to become alot more compact. I expected that our midfielders would ensure they man-mark the likes of Silva and KDB as they were the most obvious threat.
      Yes, their wingbacks had joy, however most of the goals came from them playing through and bypassing our midfielders not our fullbacks.
      Both Henderson and Wijnaldum went missing, when they needed to get stuck in. We need leaders in this team, at the moment i cannot see any.

      I would go as far as bringing in a Hamman, Makelele, McAllister type player in January. An experienced midfielder, with positional awareness and leadership qualities just to sit deep and dictate play. Otherwise, swop out Gini or Hendo for Milner in the big away games and see if the result changes.

      The next game really cannot come soon enough and i hope JK gives some of the other lads on the fringes (Grujic, Solanke, Robertson) a chance to prove themselves.
      MIRO
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
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      Re: Manchester City 5-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #796 : Sep 11, 2017 08:49:46 am »
      Im sorry, but when are we going to do something about our defence? I know its hindsight, but i would have though that JK would play his most solid defensive team away at one of the biggest rivals for the title. Positionally our backline was all over the place, there needs to be consistency and some sort of partnership formed and if Matip is the mainstay, then Klopp needs to choose his partner and stick with him coz the chop and change is not helping.

      Then onto our midfield...after the sending off, i expected the midfield to become alot more compact. I expected that our midfielders would ensure they man-mark the likes of Silva and KDB as they were the most obvious threat.
      Yes, their wingbacks had joy, however most of the goals came from them playing through and bypassing our midfielders not our fullbacks.
      Both Henderson and Wijnaldum went missing, when they needed to get stuck in.
       We need leaders in this team, at the moment i cannot see any.

      I would go as far as bringing in a Hamman, Makelele, McAllister type player in January. An experienced midfielder, with positional awareness and leadership qualities just to sit deep and dictate play. Otherwise, swop out Gini or Hendo for Milner in the big away games and see if the result changes.

      The next game really cannot come soon enough and i hope JK gives some of the other lads on the fringes (Grujic, Solanke, Robertson) a chance to prove themselves.

      We don't have a defence.

      We have no leaders on the pitch.

      We are a 50% team.


      .......................


      Anyone seen MOTD 2 ?

      Chris Sutton says ...like most... it was no red card.

      Same thing happened in the the Newcastle game and player didn't get punished like Mane.
      « Last Edit: Sep 11, 2017 09:01:49 am by MIRO »
      lfc across the water
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      Re: Manchester City 5-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #797 : Sep 11, 2017 08:52:04 am »
      We had a football game for 36 minutes. So I will only comment on the game.

      We started well, should have scored one, if not two. We were very unlucky to be behind when the ref made his decision. At first I didn't know whether Mane was fouled or fouling, until the card was produced. It was initially going to be yellow, until the ref looked at the player, his teammates, and heard the crowd baying for blood, and they all got what they wanted. At that point, the contest was destroyed, and everything that happened after it is irrelevant.

      As I said, the ref initially reached for his yellow card. Anyone who knows anything about the game, as he is supposed to, knows that not every high foot up or overhead kick that goes wrong is a cynical foul endangering an opponent, and many of them go unpunished. So stuff "the letter of the law". A straight red card should be awarded for the specific  intent to endanger an opponent. Sadio Mane is not Vinnie Jones, nor is his challenge a "Britos", and there is no intent in the challenge to endanger his opponent. It was a 50/50 ball and an accidental collision, these things happen.

      Much like the game at Stoke, the eventual scoreline in this game is irrelevant, everyone knows it's not a true reflection of the strengths and weaknesses of either side. But we can use the outcome as extra motivation for the return game in January, against a side we haven't lost at home to, in 15 years.
      Muzzman1969
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      Re: Manchester City 5-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #798 : Sep 11, 2017 09:39:28 am »
      Our defence was and is fairly ordinary, but to be fair in the first 30 mins their was exposed a bit as well, especially down the flanks.

      We do not play with 2 banks of 4 sitting deep and so I expect us to concede goals, just not maybe as easily as in the second half.

      I have no problem with the sending off (anywhere else on the pitch and that is more likely yellow) and it is interesting the reactions from the media/pundits who seem divided, but consistency is needed (can't really believe yesterdays ref only gave yellow, despite the lack of an injury).
      Kopite78
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      Re: Manchester City 5-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #799 : Sep 11, 2017 09:51:55 am »
      I've tried to wait a couple of days and take out the heat of the moment and look back again slightly more rationally.

      The red card

      For me it's not a red, the ball is played over the top looking for his pace, Mane has eyes for the ball, he does look at the keeper but only to assess what he's doing, there is no intent to hurt, he is trying to nick the ball past the on coming keeper

      Now do we expect players at this level at that pace of a game to stop mid flow? To take out the competitiveness of the moment? One of the main reasons it happens is the competitiveness of the keeper... He can't use his hands because he's so far from goal so he tries to head the ball, stooping somewhat

      Dangerous play? But by who? Just Mane? Or both? Just because the keeper gets hurt is he not putting himself in danger by going there with his head? Is he not enacting dangerous play? To himself but still..
      Brave by him some would say, stupid by him some would think.

      Look at the reaction of all the players around, look at the managers.. Not one is looking for a red card, not one player asks for one close to it, they are all surprised when the ref pulls it out.

      Dangerous play, if you have played the game is still where there has to be an element of intent, like if you know by going off the ground over the top of the ball, there is danger attached to that intent.
      If you throw an elbow, there is intent..
      If you bite someone there is intent.

      This situation is two players going fully committed to get the ball for their team and neither had intent to hurt in mind.. Sadio would have thought, I'll nick that and I'm in.. There is no intent to hurt whatsoever like there is with an over the top tackle or an elbow or a bite.
      The keeper thinks he can get the ball, but he's out of his box and therefore can't use his hands so is putting himself in danger.

      I would think the exact same had it been Aguero on Mignolet.

      I genuinely think the ref who wasn't up with play and is behind not only Sadio but a city player reacts to seeing the keeper on the floor

      He will have got the card for dangerous play, but there for me has to be intent and I just don't see any, both players played a part in the end result.

      We have watched Sadio long enough now, and watch him going forward he often brings the ball down high up when breaking the lines

      It's genuinely not blinkered, I've watched it back so many times and it's nothing more than an accidental clash, a yellow at best.
      It happens a lot, it even happened again yesterday but often refs don't over react.
      Think had it been a clash of heads but one player was a shade late? Smashes heads together.. I'm not sure he sends the player then and it's no different.
      The keeper was brave but ultimately put himself in danger


      It ruined the game at that point.

      To be honest I'm not too fussed what happened after because the way we play it can happen in this this type of situation. I'm more concerned how we react going forward.

      People need to take a breath though and not over react, I've read and hard some sh*te since Saturday, just think, we have made big big strides under Jürgen, we will continue to do so... His way.
      This is only the second game against the big 6 we've lost under him, he's not the type of manager to sit 10 behind the ball at 1-0 down, he will chase it and it can happen.

      Let's just bounce back
      Ebieahi
      • Forum Kevin Keegan
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      Re: Manchester City 5-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #800 : Sep 11, 2017 10:27:07 am »
      I personally have no issue with the ref awarding the red card. He had to make the decision at the time and considering the damage caused, he opted for red instead of yellow for a tackle considered dangerous.
      I see the same thing in rugby nowadays too, with the rules made to ensure player safety. There is an absurd rule where if a player jumping for a high ball is even accidentally caused to fall, let alone tackled, the opposing player is easily red carded for dangerous play.
      Its just the way sports are going these days to ensure safety.

      My problem is that it wont be the first nor last time we have to play with 10 men, but the way we applied ourselves was extremely poor. We werent 10 men behind the ball, there were times when we had 3 players over the halfway line with City in possession...it was tactically poor and almost suicidal against a ball playing side like City. Players and manager deserve criticism for that poor performance.

      On to the next one and better days.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Manchester City 5-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #801 : Sep 11, 2017 10:28:07 am »
      I don't see the big deal. 5-0 away to City with 10 men is not a lot different to 1-0 in terms of winning the league. 7 points from four games, which includes Arsenal and City.... It's hardly awful. Next week we will probably have 10 points from 5. Use Sakho in CL game... one of his match ban will get soaked up in EFL cup right? so 2 PL game ban?
      I can't edit it now, I meant Mane.
      Kopite78
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      Re: Manchester City 5-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #802 : Sep 11, 2017 11:04:30 am »
      I personally have no issue with the ref awarding the red card. He had to make the decision at the time and considering the damage caused, he opted for red instead of yellow for a tackle considered dangerous.
      I see the same thing in rugby nowadays too, with the rules made to ensure player safety.

      That's my point though mate.

      Did the keeper not put himself in danger?

      If it's reckless is he not being reckless?
      Just because he got hurt..

      It's like going to the zoo and putting your arm in a crocodile enclosure, the croc gets put down cause it but your arm off but did you not endanger yourself? Were you not the reckless one
      JD
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      Re: Manchester City 5-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #803 : Sep 11, 2017 11:14:28 am »
      Thing is, if Mane gets that ball then the goalkeeper probably smashes into Mane with his head or shoulder while the player is in midflight.  Does Mane get a red then?

      Anyway, it was actually a decent header by the keeper!
      Ebieahi
      • Forum Kevin Keegan
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      Re: Manchester City 5-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #804 : Sep 11, 2017 11:22:52 am »
      That's my point though mate.

      Did the keeper not put himself in danger?

      If it's reckless is he not being reckless?
      Just because he got hurt..

      It's like going to the zoo and putting your arm in a crocodile enclosure, the croc gets put down cause it but your arm off but did you not endanger yourself? Were you not the reckless one

      I understand where ur coming from, however the difference in a yellow in a red often comes down to something as simple as timing. You arrive one second to late, you miss the ball and catch the ankle or in this case head of your opponent.
      I was playing devils advocate too saying if Mane had toe-poked the ball over him and scored, would it have stood coz his foot would still clatter into the goalies head.
      heimdall
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      Re: Manchester City 5-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #805 : Sep 11, 2017 11:34:39 am »
      We also have to realise that Citeh are a very good team, especially going forwards, and De Bruyne had a superb game.
      Before the sending off I felt it was very even but our heads dropped and we lost our shape especially after the early 3rd goal in the second half which is kind of understandable in the circumstances.

      Whilst we weren't good in defence there were mitigating circumstances and I don't see this as doom and gloom, but I want a big reaction against Sevilla and Burnley.
      ozi_wozzy
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      Re: Manchester City 5-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #806 : Sep 11, 2017 12:10:14 pm »
      People need to take a breath though and not over react

      I agree with the red card comment mate, no way was that a red card. In fact, there was a similar incident in yesterday's Newcastle game when Matt Ritchie got yellow and pundits rightly asked the question what was the difference between that and Mane. The only difference was that the City keeper got hurt where as Swansea keeper escaped unscathed, but not because of any intent from Mane, it was simply down to luck.

      However, we can't escape the fact that we capitulated so badly. That will worry Klopp. Plenty of top sides go down to ten men, but move onto defend much better than that.

      The defense, as most have pointed out, was absolutely atrocious yesterday. Two goals came from simple balls straight through the middle, and one came from a free header in the 6 yard area, completely unacceptable at this level of the game. Klavan is a liability and Moreno can't defend, Alexandre-Arnold was too inexperienced for a game of this magnitude, Hendo, Gini and Can just failed to provide protection for the defenders.

      It shows the value of a strong CB that can organize the defense and why VDV or equivalent was vital. FSG need to take note. But still, to concede 5 in that manner...if I was Klopp, I'd be furious.

      Another worrying aspect was lack of leaders that can lead by example and take the game by the scruff of the neck like Stevie, or put a rocket up people's a$$ when heads are down like Suarez.

      It's done, have to move on, we have a massive game against Sevilla to focus on and all we can hope is that Klopp puts in extra resources train the defense.
      3rdJune1892
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      Re: Manchester City 5-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #807 : Sep 11, 2017 12:29:19 pm »
      Like it or not under the current rules it's a red all day long.

      "A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play."

      Mane is off the ground out of control, boot head high no way to pull out of the tackle. Intent is irelevant.

      Lots on here are using their red spectacles to cover up our real problems on Saturday.

      Poor organisation
      Lack of team spirit
      no leaders
      poor substitutions esp taking Salah off
      No plan B

      I put a these problems at Klopps door. He's paid to organise, motivate, manage in-game and plan. He's not been here only 5 minutes and things don't seem to be changing. Yes we look great and devastating when his plan A works but we look bloody awful when it doesn't.

      We hear plenty of times about  teams doing well with 10 players as their team spirit brings them together to pull out a result. On here it seems to excuse us being totally Sh@te.

      We need to be honest and look where the real problem was on Saturday.


      I appreciate my view will be irrrelevant to many as I've not made many posts.
      heimdall
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      Re: Manchester City 5-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #808 : Sep 11, 2017 12:57:47 pm »
      Like it or not under the current rules it's a red all day long.

      "A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play."

      Mane is off the ground out of control, boot head high no way to pull out of the tackle. Intent is irelevant.

      Lots on here are using their red spectacles to cover up our real problems on Saturday.

      Poor organisation
      Lack of team spirit
      no leaders
      poor substitutions esp taking Salah off
      No plan B

      I put a these problems at Klopps door. He's paid to organise, motivate, manage in-game and plan. He's not been here only 5 minutes and things don't seem to be changing. Yes we look great and devastating when his plan A works but we look bloody awful when it doesn't.

      We hear plenty of times about  teams doing well with 10 players as their team spirit brings them together to pull out a result. On here it seems to excuse us being totally Sh@te.

      We need to be honest and look where the real problem was on Saturday.


      I appreciate my view will be irrrelevant to many as I've not made many posts.

      Are you factoring in the fact that Citeh are a superb attacking football team and that we were 3-0 down with 10 men right at the start of the second half. There are not many teams that would have their heads held high and be fighting in that scenario. It was a bad day in the office, it happens to EVERY team now and again, it's how you react to it which is important.
      TheleftpegofRayKennedy
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      Re: Manchester City 5-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #809 : Sep 11, 2017 07:52:23 pm »
      Like it or not under the current rules it's a red all day long.

      "A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play."

      Mane is off the ground out of control, boot head high no way to pull out of the tackle. Intent is irelevant.

      Lots on here are using their red spectacles to cover up our real problems on Saturday.

      Poor organisation
      Lack of team spirit
      no leaders
      poor substitutions esp taking Salah off
      No plan B

      I put a these problems at Klopps door. He's paid to organise, motivate, manage in-game and plan. He's not been here only 5 minutes and things don't seem to be changing. Yes we look great and devastating when his plan A works but we look bloody awful when it doesn't.

      We hear plenty of times about  teams doing well with 10 players as their team spirit brings them together to pull out a result. On here it seems to excuse us being totally Sh@te.

      We need to be honest and look where the real problem was on Saturday.


      I appreciate my view will be irrrelevant to many as I've not made many posts.

      It's as relevant as anybody's mate.  Good post, although I think (being of a generation used to real contact in the game!) that it shouldn't have been a sending off.

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