We AREN'T going to win the league this season, it's OK, get used to it.

To be fair Mick does like to sh*t stir a bit, you can guarantee he will post something like this every year.

 

What double standards?

You and Beer obviously think Rodgers is in the same class as Klopp.
Im sure you and Beer would turn down the opportunity of Messi coming here keeping hold of Coutinho instead!...........same scenario.

The only reason fans turned on Rodgers was the trajectory we were heading in which was down.

Fishing again HScRed1?

This thread is in danger of being railroaded for all the wrong reasons with old agendas simmering to the surface.

BUT

How, have you garnered from anything I have said that 'I obviously think Rodgers is in the same class as Klopp'?

My post was about Klopp.

Mind you, I can never tell which side of the fence you are going to flip flop on HScRed1...

Might as well forget about winning any silverware with that defence.

Club and Klopp have fu**ed up big time over the defence.

I mean, you either forget what you post OR just wade into a discussion and take the contrarian side of the argument because you can't stand the people your mate is debating with. And would sooner make your own posts look ridiculous in order to support a mate on here.

I digress,

Here's the crux HScRed1, I won't lower my expectations and use "double standards" for a manager who is significantly better than TPM. Doesn't make sense 1 iota.

It's simple logic:

You don't get a better manager and lower the expectations, you wouldn't do that with an inferior manager, hence why Rodgers got the boot; nor do you continuously bend all sorts of errors into excuses in order to ring fence him from his own errors.

It's a bit like giving Firmino a bye because he cried after missing a penalty. It's that sort of sh*t that won't fool people, it's borderline baiting.

----------

Maybe the league title challenge has gone - in no small part down to Klopp for a) not bringing in defensive replacements, and b) not actually using his time on the training field to drill our team with the principles of defending. From where I sit, that is a massive thumbs down for a "world class" manager. I will give him time, but currently he's doing his utmost not to convince me.

So, the towel has practically been thrown in already on that front, Believers back to Doubters now  f**king great, eh?

He now, should be looking to put at least a trophy in the cabinet by the season's end, even though you yourself have already written that off as well looking at the quote above. After all, he is MUCH better than Rodgers, and should easily surpass anything he did within a reasonable time frame. Dalglish did it. Maureen (like him or loathe him is a world class manager as well), has already done that (put a trophy in the cabinet) over at castle greyskull; Klopp needs to start following in his footsteps because at the moment, himself and Maureen look a class apart.

Fishing again HScRed1?

This thread is in danger of being railroaded for all the wrong reasons with old agendas simmering to the surface.

BUT

How, have you garnered from anything I have said that 'I obviously think Rodgers is in the same class as Klopp'?

My post was about Klopp.

Mind you, I can never tell which side of the fence you are going to flip flop on HScRed1...

I mean, you either forget what you post OR just wade into a discussion and take the contrarian side of the argument because you can't stand the people your mate is debating with. And would sooner make your own posts look ridiculous in order to support a mate on here.

I digress,

Here's the crux HScRed1, I won't lower my expectations and use "double standards" for a manager who is significantly better than TPM. Doesn't make sense 1 iota.

It's simple logic:

You don't get a better manager and lower the expectations, you wouldn't do that with an inferior manager, hence why Rodgers got the boot; nor do you continuously bend all sorts of errors into excuses in order to ring fence him from his own errors.

It's a bit like giving Firmino a bye because he cried after missing a penalty. It's that sort of sh*t that won't fool people, it's borderline baiting.

----------

Maybe the league title challenge has gone - in no small part down to Klopp for a) not bringing in defensive replacements, and b) not actually using his time on the training field to drill our team with the principles of defending. From where I sit, that is a massive thumbs down for a "world class" manager. I will give him time, but currently he's doing his utmost not to convince me.

So, the towel has practically been thrown in already on that front, Believers back to Doubters now  f**king great, eh?

He now, should be looking to put at least a trophy in the cabinet by the season's end, even though you yourself have already written that off as well looking at the quote above. After all, he is MUCH better than Rodgers, and should easily surpass anything he did within a reasonable time frame. Dalglish did it. Maureen (like him or loathe him is a world class manager as well), has already done that (put a trophy in the cabinet) over at castle greyskull; Klopp needs to start following in his footsteps because at the moment, himself and Maureen look a class apart.

Depends on what your expectations are really mate.
Personally I think it's unreasonable to think we have the squad to challenge for the title and it's also not reasonable to expect that a team on that has on average finished 6th taking out the 13/14 season to make such a leap.
We probably had the weakest squad out of the Top 6 last season so have a lot of catching up to do and this unfortunately won't happen overnight.

Now if we had the transfer budget of City or Chelsea fair enough but all the guff about £200M war chest looks like it was just PR.
We spent on average what we have always spent under FSG.

Yes no doubt Klopp and the club have to take responsibility for the CB situation.
And my point about the way the defence is currently performing still stands.

However looking at the stats I put up if we cut out the individual errors the defence doesn't look as bad as it is being made out.
Can Klopp sort this out, well I wouldn't rule it out as it's not something systemic.

You want a cheque book manager who buys success, tell you what I wouldn't mind a bit of that but it's not happening under FSG.

I'm sure Pulis would give Maureen a run if he spent the amount he does every season.

I'm just as frustrated as anyone over what happened over the summer window but it's gone and Klopp will take responsibility but it is what is.

Was reading the sport this morning and after seeing this thread I'm reminded of a particular quote:
"There are times when Klopps biggest test as a Liverpool manager appears to be dealing with the negativity he clearly feels pervades every sinew of the club whenever a match does not become a procession, the grumbles from the stands jarring his own glass half full mentality."

Now some might argue his biggest challenge is coaching some of our players how to defend, but I do think there's an element of truth in the above.

Do you recall who wrote that?

I can't speak for Beer, but although I think they are both good managers Jürgen IMHO is the better of the two and comfortably. I don't to be totally honest understand your Coutinho/Messi thing, perhaps you've got me mixed up with somebody else or something? I'd sell Coutinho whether or not we were signing Messi (which obviously we aren't).

As for the reasons fans turned on Rodgers, I don't really care to be honest. I personally wouldn't have gotten rid of him that is true and well known, but the fact that a vast majority of others would is why in the end even I said well he may as well go.

I thought the point of my post was fairly clear though until one or two usual suspects started trying to turn it into the same old debate. My point is I can sense there are now rumblings about Jürgen, and I personally think it would be a huge mistake to get rid of him.

Beers point it seems to me (IMHO, no doubt he can explain it better) is that if the fans who turned on Rodgers wanted 4th place and trophies or else, they really ought to expect the same out of Jürgen. I totally understand where he is coming from but there are two points I'd make.

1. I thought the expectations placed on Rodgers were unrealistic given the squad strength relative to other clubs, so it would be the height of hypocracy for me to now demand the quadruple off Jürgen.

2. It is for other people to explain away their double standards in terms of altered expectations (if indeed they are there). Me, I just hope we as fans are patient enough to give THIS manager a fair shake.

BigMick I also seem to recall that even you were calling for Rodgers to go at the end, Can we all remember it so wrong? 
Brendan has found his level, and that is managing a team in a one team league, literally anyone can win with Celtic at the moment, just look at Ronny Delia who is a complete fuckwit. the test for celtic is Europe and they consistently fail to impress there.

Anyway I fully expect us to get top 4 this season, actually I expect us to be in 4th place barring Chelsea or the manc clubs imploding at some point. Spurs have a big big problem with Wembley and Arsenal are a basket case at the moment. Beyond them who can challenge  us, Everton? ;-)

BigMick I also seem to recall that even you were calling for Rodgers to go at the end, Can we all remember it so wrong? 
Brendan has found his level, and that is managing a team in a one team league, literally anyone can win with Celtic at the moment, just look at Ronny Delia who is a complete fuckwit. the test for celtic is Europe and they consistently fail to impress there.

Anyway I fully expect us to get top 4 this season, actually I expect us to be in 4th place barring Chelsea or the manc clubs imploding at some point. Spurs have a big big problem with Wembley and Arsenal are a basket case at the moment. Beyond them who can challenge  us, Everton? ;-)

I self evidently was as per the quotes Heimy!  .

The truth is/was I'd been calling for him to go a while before those quotes, simply because he'd lost the fans and once that happens the manager is dead in the water.

One thing about all the posts about other people's posts - not agreeing or disagreeing with a point/position, but more making the motivation and attitude of the poster a subject: If I've learned anything into my old age, is you can't help how you feel. You can help what you do about it, and even your understanding of something, but not your feelings. It's an emotional business following a team as passionately as so many on here do - it stands to reason there will be differing "feelings" among the crowd. We should be able to live with that, even as we disagree.

Regarding Jürgen, Brendan and any other manager who has ever lived: A newly-hired American baseball manager said it well once when asked about his five-year plan. He answered "Five year plan? Here's everybody's five -year plan: Win games or get fired (the sack)!"

The time frame for that isn't always in the manager's hands.

Backing Jürgen here to continue building a championship-winning side, reinforce the foundation for success into the extended future, and give us a lot of thrills along the way.

Here's the crux HScRed1, I won't lower my expectations and use "double standards" for a manager who is significantly better than TPM. Doesn't make sense 1 iota.

Very fair point actually. 😕

Cast your mind back... the folk who lead the charge against Rodgers did so because they were angry that he, (a worse manager than Jürgen), was unable to get LFC winning, after losing Suarez and having to rebuild - even tho' "Rome wasn't built..." and all that. Fair enough, I suppose. So...

You are right; it can't really be too much of an ask to expect a World class manager like Jürgen to actually exceed what went before.

To that extent, I guess, we really should all be expecting more. 😕

F**k off Mick -- we are not only going to win the league, we are also going to win the CL and FA cups.  Will likely miss out on the League Cup though.....  😎

The prophecy is coming true!!!   

Very fair point actually. 😕

Cast your mind back... the folk who lead the charge against Rodgers did so because they were angry that he, (a worse manager than Jürgen), was unable to get LFC winning, after losing Suarez and having to rebuild - even tho' "Rome wasn't built..." and all that. Fair enough, I suppose. So...

You are right; it can't really be too much of an ask to expect a World class manager like Jürgen to actually exceed what went before.

To that extent, I guess, we really should all be expecting more. 😕

Exactly the point. We didn't bring Klopp in to marvel at how wonderful he is. He was brought here because we wanted to improve on the Rodgers reign.

It really shouldn't be too hard for a man who has won league and cups with Dortmund and made Champions League finals to improve upon the former Watford, Reading and Swansea man.

The reality is starting to bite, we are a million miles away from being able to deal with the demands of winning trophies in this country.

Not helped by stingy owners perhaps, but also held back by his own judgement.

I'm certainly not going to lower my expectations because Klopp is a cool guy. We need to improve very quickly or he will go down as a failure here, make no mistake.

We arent going to win the league cup this season. Thats for sure

Why people bring up money Christ we could got two good centre backs in Europe we spend 40 million on ox he sh*t

We arent going to win the league cup this season. Thats for sure

Don't think we will be anything this season at this rate 

Pretty much feels like out of 2 Competitions already. Have to win the other 2. Prettyfuckingplease!!!

We will win the league!

I'm beginning to get a little concerned. It bothers me when I read people say they are "beginning to doubt" our title challenge, it worries me when I see people saying "if Klopp doesn't sort out the defence he will get the sack", it irks me when I hear recordings of cockney clowns who are supposedly LFC fans ringing 606 saying "Klopp is a clown". 

 IMHO it isn't dodgy defences which bring down managers, it's unrealistic expectations of the owners and fan base. So lets nail this one here and now, we will not challenge for the title this season. Even a top four slot would be a massive achievement. Now I know that won't make me popular (as if I give a f***), but at least it means I don't have unrealistic expectations of the manager this season. Obviously I have ASPIRATIONS (and I "hope I'm wrong" and all that other bollocksy caveat sh*te which people put down on posts like these), but I'm pretty sure my hopes and aspirations will remain only that, THIS SEASON AT LEAST.

 So why can't we win it (FFS?).Well quite simply we haven't got a good enough team yet. The goalkeeper, defence and defensive midfield aspect of our team is probably bottom half at best. For that reason alone, we WILL NOT win the league, or IMHO seriously challenge for it either. Added to that, we don't IMHO have enough guile and variety against bus parkers to consistently break them down, there will IMHO be too many occasions like yesterday where we will not gain the necessary 3 points. We don't have a centre forward who scores heavily, nor do we have a midfielder who arrives and scores regularly.

 All that though isn't the bit that worries me the most. No, the bit that concerns me are the quietly whispered signs that people are losing faith in the manager. We must not do that IMHO, as losing Jürgen would be an absolute disaster for the club. It seems odd to be asking for people to have patience with a proven World Class manager, but there are rumblings in the jungle.

 I would ask people to consider what the team would look like if we had managed to get Kieta and VVD. It would look a LOT stronger, and in time it WILL look a lot stronger. For now though, we're going to give too many silly goals away, and IMHO both Manc clubs and Chelsea will finish above us, possibly Spurs too. Jürgen knows his zweibeln though, he has an inherent and an obvious football intelligence. Perhaps he's been a bit too loyal to some players, a bit too nice, but we would be fools to hang him for that.

 Enjoy this season, it will be a rollercoaster, but don't be too suicidal if we don't win the quadruple. Stick with the boss though, FFS stick with the boss. If we hounded this fella out I think I'd give up altogether.   

Good to see your support for Jürgen .

I wouldn't swap Jürgen for Rogers in a million years, but as for taking the club forward. If you took Suarez out of Rogers team, we looked pretty ordinary.
If you take any one player out of the current team we are still capable of great attacking football. All looking very exciting. We've certainly got a few more quality players, but we've also lost s couple. But on the results front, we haven't made much progress. It all comes down to the back four playing as a unit, or not. The lack of a quality defensive midfield player, along with s dominant nasty b***ard in the middle.
This really comes down to Jurgens continued belief in the players he has in these vital positions.
As a fan, I believe I can see the problems, but with Jurgens experience, probably I'm wrong and he's right, but what else could be the cause of our defensive woes.
Is Jürgen not the manager we think he is, or are the players just letting him down ?
If he's adamant that the squad we have will win things, at what point does HE lose faith in them, before he purchased the better quality replacements. And will that be too late, to hold on to our current star performers ?

The season seems to be panning out already.
Seems like top 3 will be between City, Chelsea and Manure.
 Us and tottenham (maybe arsenal)will be battling for 4th.

I have to agree I was disappointed when the last days suggested we couldn't fight for the title. But you have to face reality. Our team is not good enough. We need to fight for No. 4 on the table - direct CL qualification - and maybe some upset in FA-Cup or CL. Moreover from now on I am a City/Chelsea fan because I don't wanna Manure gettin more titles, they have just 2 more than us and so in a short time we could overtake them there again, we'll see.

Maybe if stop draw lose sh*t teams at home then we start winning league

The season seems to be panning out already.
Seems like top 3 will be between City, Chelsea and Manure.

People thought the same thing last season.  City won their first 10 in a row.  United looked like contenders.  Chelsea were a shambles and needed a formation switch to steady the ship.  Spurs were struggling to deal with Kane's absence (injury).  Things ended up a bit different....

There's a lot of footie to be played yet.  We've got 32 games left.  Win 25 of them and we will have a shot at the title.

Likely?  No.  Possible?  Of course 😎

Can you win the league without a 25-30 goal a season forward? 

It's something we don't have.  I know we have a number of midfielders that are going to chip in with a bag full of goals, but we don't have that one player which all title winning sides seem to have. 

It was one of the first thing moanhino got sorted, and it hurts me to say but he knows how to win the league.

Can you win the league without a 25-30 goal a season forward? 

It's something we don't have.  I know we have a number of midfielders that are going to chip in with a bag full of goals, but we don't have that one player which all title winning sides seem to have. 

It was one of the first thing moanhino got sorted, and it hurts me to say but he knows how to win the league.

An open cheque book helps make Jose's & Pep's life much easier in winning a league title..