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      Q. LFC Man of the Match v Newcastle?

      Simon Mignolet
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      Total Members Voted: 67

      Voting closed: Oct 05, 2017 06:25:54 pm

      Newcastle United 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion

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      Robby The Z
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      Re: Newcastle United 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #736: Oct 03, 2017 03:40:29 pm
      Cheers for the reply and I appreciate your comments.

      Yes, we've had plenty of chances but most of us have been saying that we lack a natural goal scorer/finisher/striker. Bobby Firmino does a brilliant job and Im a big fan of his, but I've said it before and I'll say it again, he isn't going to get you 20 goals a season.  I'm also a big fan of Sturridge too, and I personally believe he could get us 20 a season but Klopp doesn't play him. When he does play him (every 6 or 7 games) he's rusty because he hasn't had a run in the team - just like we saw at Newcastle. The sturridge chance against Newcastle that you're referring too he would normally score with his eyes closed but the pressure of scoring, rustiness and the lack of confidence has gotten to him.  My point being, had Klopp signed a proper forward those chances you're referring too may have been converted.


      Re this part of your post - what would think about playing Mane through the middle instead of wide (as John Aldridge recently suggested)? I think against these teams that sit in so deep, it might be more effective.
      Harrisimo
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      Re: Newcastle United 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #737: Oct 03, 2017 03:55:32 pm
      Again why blow £35m+ on Ox when we need a proven goalscorer. And on top of that hardly give Ox a chance. Mediocre start all round, off the pace in the league, out of the LC and slow in the C/L.

      This is Klopp's third season here and the defense is still causing problems. There is no magic fix on the horizon. We can moan about Mig, but Karius is no better, switching Gomez into the center, may be, play Robertson...whatever. It's all very frustrating.

      Problems from front to back and they don't seem to being solved.This is obviously a big test for Klopp, is he basically a personalty manager or does he also have the tactical nous to solve these problems.He gets our support but patience will wear thin if things don't improve.
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Newcastle United 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #738: Oct 03, 2017 05:54:02 pm
      Re this part of your post - what would think about playing Mane through the middle instead of wide (as John Aldridge recently suggested)? I think against these teams that sit in so deep, it might be more effective.

      That's not for me personally.

      Mane is world class in my opinion but one of the reasons he is so effective is because he gets a lot of time and space on the flank. He is at his best running at defenders with the ball and he wouldn't get that opportunity playing down the middle.

      Mane is a better player than Sterling, but they have similar attributes. We tried Raheem there under Rodgers for a while and it didn't work. I think it'd be similar with Mane.

      If anything, against teams that sit so deep, we might only get one or two real chances during the game. That's when you need a Harry Kane or an aguero in your team who you can pretty much bank on scoring those type of chances.
      Scotia
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      Re: Newcastle United 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #739: Oct 03, 2017 06:00:57 pm
      That's not for me personally.

      Mane is world class in my opinion but one of the reasons he is so effective is because he gets a lot of time and space on the flank. He is at his best running at defenders with the ball and he wouldn't get that opportunity playing down the middle.

      Mane is a better player than Sterling, but they have similar attributes. We tried Raheem there under Rodgers for a while and it didn't work. I think it'd be similar with Mane.

      If anything, against teams that sit so deep, we might only get one or two real chances during the game. That's when you need a Harry Kane or an aguero in your team who you can pretty much bank on scoring those type of chances.

      For me it wastes his best attribute - pace - plus as talented as he is I don’t think his first touch is consistent enough. 
      lfc across the water
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      Re: Newcastle United 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #740: Oct 03, 2017 08:07:47 pm
      Quote from redindian
      But, a bit of perspective about yesterday's game; This is the same team that did not allow a single shot on target when it was playing against Tottenham until the 65th min. Tottenham was able to win that game courtesy a Jonjo Shelvey red card.

      And this is the same team that has lost to Brighton, Huddersfield, and Nottingham Forest this season.

      With just two wins there in 10 years, the game was always going to be tough to watch. And the game went exactly according to the script. We attack, they park the bus. We score, they equalise. Repeat.

      The result wasn't terrible, but it wasn't enough. And that's just the preview of what's to come in the next game. Facing the mancs at home should be a showcase of everything that's best of Liverpool FC, before during and after. Sadly I fear for us on the day and the game itself as a spectacle. Just put on any game against Mourinho at home in the past 10 years and nothing changes. We attack, they defend. Repeat.

      Our energies also tend to flag in the last half hour of games. And that's when we're winning, let alone when we're not. I don't know if it's a fitness issue, or we just run out of ideas, or both, but the difference in the pace between the first half play and second half is fairly drastic, and is really not acceptable. We have 90 minutes to win a game, not 45, and there are plenty of times when we'll have to dig deep to get over the line.
      bmck
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      • YNWA
      Re: Newcastle United 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #741: Oct 03, 2017 08:23:15 pm
      Mane is a better player than Sterling, but they have similar attributes. We tried Raheem there under Rodgers for a while and it didn't work. I think it'd be similar with Mane.


      Thought in the year of the unholy trinity - Lambert/Borini/Balotelli - he did pretty damn well for us considering he's not a striker:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014%E2%80%9315_Liverpool_F.C._season#Goalscorers

      'Raheemista' and proud !! :)
      redindian
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      Re: Newcastle United 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #742: Oct 03, 2017 10:27:00 pm
      Cheers for the reply and I appreciate your comments.

      My post wasn't specifically directed at you. I skim read a few posts before making own and I just saw it crop up. I quite often see that sort of thing said though, people always saying those sort of things. I often see people say 'we can go level with Spurs' like that's some sort of achievement? It winds me up.

      I understand what your saying, that its fine margins, but unfortunately its those fine margins which dictate the outcome of a football match - especially in the premier league.

      Yes, we've had plenty of chances but most of us have been saying that we lack a natural goal scorer/finisher/striker. Bobby Firmino does a brilliant job and Im a big fan of his, but I've said it before and I'll say it again, he isn't going to get you 20 goals a season.  I'm also a big fan of Sturridge too, and I personally believe he could get us 20 a season but Klopp doesn't play him. When he does play him (every 6 or 7 games) he's rusty because he hasn't had a run in the team - just like we saw at Newcastle. The sturridge chance against Newcastle that you're referring too he would normally score with his eyes closed but the pressure of scoring, rustiness and the lack of confidence has gotten to him.  My point being, had Klopp signed a proper forward those chances you're referring too may have been converted.

      We also won't win a thing with this back four. Every single week they let us down. We can all see the problems. We can all see the horrific partnership of Matip and Lovren. We can all see the England u21's captain playing out of position at right back when we could do with him in the middle. We can see all see a wild and reckless Moreno on the pitch and a calm composed Robertson on the bench. We can all see that our number 1 GK isn't good enough for top level football.

      Anyway, to summarise, being 'only 7 points off top' isn't something to be proud of after 7 games played.

      We're only 7 points off the relegation places too but nobody seems to mention that.


      1. On Sturridge - I may have to slightly disagree with you on him not getting his chances. I think he is getting his chances, but he is not taking them. He came as a sub against Arsenal, started against Burnley, came on as a sub against Leicester, came on as a sub against Spartak and started against Newcastle. In all these games he got loads of chances to make an impact. And, I think Klopp may have a problem with him because in a few press conferences he keeps mentioning his name and his failure to convert a few golden chances while refusing to name the personnel in the defence for any defensive mistakes. Given all this, it is important to make a mark when you get the chances. Before the Newcastle game, I wanted him to start and get a run of games because I wanted Bobby to be dropped for a few games due to his poor form. But, now I am not sure if Sturridge's body can withstand a continuous run of games. In the Newcastle game it was not his finishing alone that was a problem. He was weak and falling down with flailing arms, unable to hold the ball, bereft of any willingness and desire to make something happen, and in fact giving away possession (I don't remember exactly, but, I think it was his mistake that led to the goal), which, of course leads to your point on having a 20-goal striker. As a case in point, in the Huddersfield vs Tottenham game, Harry Kane made all the difference when he changed the direction of the game by pouncing on a mistake and scoring a goal in the 8th min.   

      2. Gomez started as a CB against Leicester in the league cup. While he started well and gave a strong performance in the first half, it was his mistake that led to their equalizer and it is fair to say that he had a poor game on the whole. I know it is unfair to blame a youngster, but, I believe Klopp wants to take it easy on the kid and not entrust him with big responsibilities at such an early age, especially, given the fact that he is coming back from a long hamstring injury. He has loads of potential and Klopp may not want to kill the goose that lays the golden egg. Also, we are short of options at the back and if Gomez plays at CB, TAA may have to play at RB week in and week out. That is a lot of inexperience on the right which takes a toll on TAA too. Cynically speaking we can always argue that it wouldn't become a lot worse than what it is now. But, practically, I am not sure how feasible the option could be.

      Of course, all this leads to the summer transfer window and I agree with you on the mistakes made. In the transfer thread, I kept harping about not wasting another golden opportunity and hoping for some smart, intelligent transfers and void a repeat of 09/10, 14/15 summer transfer windows. But, it is what it is and nothing can be done about it at the moment. (Although, it looks like VvD may happen in January.)

      Also, Bobby so far has looked liked Suarez under Kenny. If you remember we knew the potential of Suarez under Kenny, but, we doubted his finishing and ruthlessness in front of the goal and if he had what it took to take it to the next level. His potential was unleashed the following season. Maybe, there is reason for Klopp persisting with Bobby as he didn't even go for a single striker during the summer. But, yes, at the moment, there are no proofs/stats to back Klopp's approach and it is right to question him.
      redindian
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      Re: Newcastle United 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #743: Oct 03, 2017 10:37:51 pm

      Our energies also tend to flag in the last half hour of games. And that's when we're winning, let alone when we're not. I don't know if it's a fitness issue, or we just run out of ideas, or both, but the difference in the pace between the first half play and second half is fairly drastic, and is really not acceptable. We have 90 minutes to win a game, not 45, and there are plenty of times when we'll have to dig deep to get over the line.

      I doubt if it is a fitness issue because the team seems to be supremely fit as seen in the CL game when we played Spartak in Moscow and made their players beg for the final whistle at their home. IMO, it is more mental and when we are not winning enough it becomes a confidence issue as well. Champions get the goals in the dying minutes somehow or the other. Sadly, I cannot see one player in the current squad who can be considered a true leader, one who can rally the troops and get them going by making a hard tackle or providing an exquisite pass or coming up with a stunning save or even scoring a goal.
      Rush Goalie
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      Re: Newcastle United 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #744: Oct 05, 2017 12:44:00 am
      Still peed off with that on Sunday, even after a few poor results we could and should have been sat in the top four now....I know that wouldn't make a huge difference and there are loads of points up for grabs yet but psychologically going into the United game already being in the top four is coming into the game from a strong position. Man Utd is always a must win game but now it really is a must win.
      paulow63
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      Re: Newcastle United 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #745: Oct 05, 2017 12:27:13 pm
      Still peed off with that on Sunday, even after a few poor results we could and should have been sat in the top four now....I know that wouldn't make a huge difference and there are loads of points up for grabs yet but psychologically going into the United game already being in the top four is coming into the game from a strong position. Man Utd is always a must win game but now it really is a must win.
      To look at it in a different way, the same happened last year when we had the exact same fixture after the same international break period. At that time we were flying with a lead of results, 4-1, 2-1, 5-1 and 2-1. We just couldn't get going against United and I seem to remember Firmino being put clean through only to be tackled by Valencia as our best and only chance.

      This time the international break might give us the time needed to regroup, rethink things, give JK a bit of time out ready to go again. (hopefully)

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