We need to talk about Henderson...

Those curious to watch Jorginho against Man City will be disappointed to find that he warmed the bench by choice of the manager.

Might have been mentioned..I don't know but I'll chuck it in anyway.

What would Bob Paisley make of the situation. Henderson certainly has an engine on him, got guts aplenty, bit of pace, competes for every ball, does he see a pass good enough to be a playmaker or just a half decent holding player, does he arrive late in the box or is he really box to box, does he have a really rocket shot in his locker, game intelligent no doubt, can tackle, reads the game well, got plenty of experience under his belt.

So what would Bob do. Move him into the back 4. Can he play along side Lovren. Could that be his future. Emlyn started in midfield, as did Phil Thompson, Carra as well. Could Henderson be a great back 4 player. Absolutely no doubt he could do a job there but could he really be great in that position.

I'm not convinced Henderson can lead this team to greatness from midfield and I think Klopp will have to deal with it sooner or later...could be moving his into the back 4 might be worth a go.

Jimmy showing what has been missing in midfield this season.

Mainly movement, he was all over the place and putting a boot in when needed.

Jimmy showing what has been missing in midfield this season.

Mainly movement, he was all over the place and putting a boot in when needed.

A midfield player having the ability to " putt the boot in" is a thing of the distant past.

Those curious to watch Jorginho against Man City will be disappointed to find that he warmed the bench by choice of the manager.

Yeah, I was looking forward to the match, but he dropped/rested Allan and Jorginho. I think he is taking Serie A more serious. Seems like he wants to win it more than CL.

A midfield player having the ability to " putt the boot in" is a thing of the distant past.

What???

Jimmy showing what has been missing in midfield this season.

Mainly movement, he was all over the place and putting a boot in when needed.

I know Maribor were sh*t but our midfield was so much more fluid and dynamic without Henderson in it.

As I said...is Henderson good enough to be the playmaker..is he box to box..is he a serious threat supporting the attack..is he to negative (sideways) as many claim. He is however a genuine leader, but does he really influence games enough as a leader.  Enough to be captain of LFC.

Ever since Kenny signed him he has had to prove himself every season. I think that stems from him being played out wide by Kenny, a position that just did not suit him, and as a result many just didn't rate him and when that happens it's difficult to really convince the doubters. Henderson's sometimes perceived negative safety first play putts many fans off.

Others in the team set the pace, Henderson has to show he can lead this team, he can be a big big player and not just be a supporting player. I'm not convinced he can lead this team to greatness.

I would have looked good in that midfield tonight.

I know Maribor were sh*t but our midfield was so much more fluid and dynamic without Henderson in it.

Funny thing is, I actually think If Hendo played as our #8, he would be doing what Milner was doing tonight in the PL week in, week out.

Hendo finally put in the position that suited him best tonight. The bench.

Hendo finally put in the position that suited him best tonight. The bench.

Henderson was rested and Milner was given a much needed game. Think Hendo will be back against Spurs. If anything Milner put pressure on Wijnaldum and Can.

We got a great start against Maribor, 3 goals up in no time, and Milner's positive play was a factor in that.
Don't think the result would've been different if Hendo had started, tho maybe we wouldn't have had as many goals, but who knows, they weren't great.
Expect Hendo back for the weekend, but some food for thought for both him and Jürgen.

Henderson was rested and Milner was given a much needed game. Think Hendo will be back against Spurs. If anything Milner put pressure on Wijnaldum and Can.

I would agree

Mags is not going to like the stats but looking at the drop off in Hendo's tackles and interceptions he should be no where near the team playing as the DM.

https://twitter.com/mixedknuts/status/920340859215892480

Henderson was rested and Milner was given a much needed game. Think Hendo will be back against Spurs. If anything Milner put pressure on Wijnaldum and Can.

Klopp does tend to stick with his favourites, regardless of form.

Mags is not going to like the stats but looking at the drop off in Hendo's tackles and interceptions he should be no where near the team playing as the DM.

https://twitter.com/mixedknuts/status/920340859215892480

I have no idea what I'm looking at here for some of the stats but I can only assume more surface area is better?

Will be interning to see that same grid after a full season. Do you have a key for what all the measures stats represent?

I have no idea what I'm looking at here for some of the stats but I can only assume more surface area is better?

Will be interning to see that same grid after a full season. Do you have a key for what all the measures stats represent?

Have a look at this;

https://statsbomb.com/2016/04/understand-football-radars-for-mugs-and-muggles/

Have a look at this;

https://statsbomb.com/2016/04/understand-football-radars-for-mugs-and-muggles/

Cheers mate will do

Mags is not going to like the stats but looking at the drop off in Hendo's tackles and interceptions he should be no where near the team playing as the DM.

https://twitter.com/mixedknuts/status/920340859215892480

Still don't fully understand, especially the parts about how you measure buildup in general or also the possession adjusted totals, but I trust that they all add up. Looks like all areas apart from key passes are down, but then again he had a very poor start to the season which is why I think the timing for this thread is off as he's been getting better and better.

Like I said, I'd like to see one of those at the end of the season though, interesting chart.

Still don't fully understand, especially the parts about how you measure buildup in general or also the possession adjusted totals, but I trust that they all add up. Looks like all areas apart from key passes are down, but then again he had a very poor start to the season which is why I think the timing for this thread is off as he's been getting better and better.

Like I said, I'd like to see one of those at the end of the season though, interesting chart.

So if you don't like some stats you just ridicule them, OK I think I've got more than enough information on you now ;-)

Anyway were you as amazed as i was that we managed to function as a team without Henderson?

So if you don't like some stats you just ridicule them, OK I think I've got more than enough information on you now ;-)

Anyway were you as amazed as i was that we managed to function as a team without Henderson?

He is not ridiculing the statistics shown by HScRed1, he says he doesn't fully understand them, which is something entirely different. I for one don't understand how they measure the 'buildup' either, there's no explanation for it anywhere on that page.

Also, the reason why we looked better in midfield isn't because Henderson wasn't playing. It's because Can was taken away from the #8 position in midfield and replaced by Milner, who is by far the more intelligent player. He might not be as talented as Can, but his understanding of when to press and his overall awareness of the shape of our team, is a lot better. That's why we looked better. Can did nothing that Henderson wouldn't have done in that game, you could've replaced Can by Henderson and we likely would have seen a very similar scoreline.

Still don't fully understand, especially the parts about how you measure buildup in general or also the possession adjusted totals, but I trust that they all add up. Looks like all areas apart from key passes are down, but then again he had a very poor start to the season which is why I think the timing for this thread is off as he's been getting better and better.

Like I said, I'd like to see one of those at the end of the season though, interesting chart.

The possession adjusted totals are explained as:"PAdj stands for “possession adjusted” stats. The reason why we do this is because it normalizes defensive stats for opportunity. Think about it this way: If your teammates always have the ball, then you can’t make any defensive actions, and you would look worse in this statistic compared to a Tony Pulis-style team that sits deep and constantly defends.

When adjusted for possession, tackles and interception output becomes moderately correlated with shots conceded and goals against, as opposed to having no correlation without the adjustment."

So basically, if you were to compare our CB's to as said in the example, the CB's in a Pulis team, without the adjustment of the PAdj, our CB's would always look worse or they would have lower statistics in all defensive categories (clearances, blocks, tackles, ...) because we have the majority of possession and our CB's have to make less defensive actions. The PAdj tries to adjust these statistics to make both sets of CB's more comparable.

So if you don't like some stats you just ridicule them, OK I think I've got more than enough information on you now ;-)

Anyway were you as amazed as i was that we managed to function as a team without Henderson?

What are you on about I've said I don't understand what they mean fully but did not shy away from accepting them.

As for the other statement, won't justify that with a response, you're clearly fishing for something you won't be getting.