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      We need to talk about Henderson...

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      Magillionare
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #483: Dec 11, 2017 04:20:15 pm
      Hamann. No you're right, he only changed the whole game in istanbul for us but yeah you're right, hendo is miles better than what he was, of course.

      F***ing hell. Seen it all now.

      Well aware of that clever clogs. Also well aware half a game doesn't show an entire body of work over a career.

      Hamann did the quiet work most his career, you clearly don't have an issue with him doing it but do with Henderson.

      Just find it odd.
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #484: Dec 11, 2017 04:30:41 pm
      Well aware of that clever clogs. Also well aware half a game doesn't show an entire body of work over a career.

      Hamann did the quiet work most his career, you clearly don't have an issue with him doing it but do with Henderson.

      Just find it odd.

      If you're aware of it then show the respect he deserves then. He played his part in one of, if not the greatest, nights of our history. He was a F***ing massive part of that night actually and if Rafa doesn't make that substitution then we don't win the game.

      What hamann did for us in that 45 minutes, Jordan Henderson isn't anywhere near capable of. The fact you're comparing the two is just laughable. You don't make 60 caps for Germany at that time either if you're garbage so you can find it ironic all you like.

      There is nothing wrong with being a simple player either (which Hamann wasn't btw). Kante is a pretty simple player and he is world class. Likewise Mascherano is a simple player and again he was world class.

      So there is F**k all wrong with keeping things simple. But Henderson is not world class. Nowhere near world class.

      Where exactly do you see Henderson playing in our team? In the 6 or in the 8?
      Magillionare
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #485: Dec 11, 2017 05:11:11 pm
      If you're aware of it then show the respect he deserves then. He played his part in one of, if not the greatest, nights of our history. He was a F***ing massive part of that night actually and if Rafa doesn't make that substitution then we don't win the game.

      What hamann did for us in that 45 minutes, Jordan Henderson isn't anywhere near capable of. The fact you're comparing the two is just laughable. You don't make 60 caps for Germany at that time either if you're garbage so you can find it ironic all you like.

      There is nothing wrong with being a simple player either (which Hamann wasn't btw). Kante is a pretty simple player and he is world class. Likewise Mascherano is a simple player and again he was world class.

      So there is F**k all wrong with keeping things simple. But Henderson is not world class. Nowhere near world class.

      Where exactly do you see Henderson playing in our team? In the 6 or in the 8?

      I've never once said Henderson is world class. I think he's a very solid player who does his job well. His job is to win the ball back and give it on. The term 'recycling' is used a lot which is a decent way of putting it. He is excellent at recovering the ball not by sliding in or making big tackles but by winning the second ball over and over. Gini, Can or Milner will pressure and Hendo recovers the ball and gives it on.

      If we have more of the ball Hendo has done his job right. I think he plays best when he is given more freedom e.g he may start in the 6 role but can move out and trust someone to sit in while he goes forward. The more fluid the better for him and most of our players in general actually.

      Like I said, not world class but a real solid player. If someone replaces him in the summer, so be it but for now we don't have better options.

      If you think Can is better in that role well then I don't know what to say, we just value different qualities and see different aspects of play on the field
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #486: Dec 11, 2017 10:51:19 pm
      Never rated the player... Thought he was as bad as Downing,Adams,Carrol and the other KK signings. Said it then and i'll say it now His:(KK) signing set us back five years...

      The sooner Henderson goes the better i'll feel
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #487: Dec 12, 2017 12:10:25 am
      I've never once said Henderson is world class. I think he's a very solid player who does his job well. His job is to win the ball back and give it on. The term 'recycling' is used a lot which is a decent way of putting it. He is excellent at recovering the ball not by sliding in or making big tackles but by winning the second ball over and over. Gini, Can or Milner will pressure and Hendo recovers the ball and gives it on.

      If we have more of the ball Hendo has done his job right. I think he plays best when he is given more freedom e.g he may start in the 6 role but can move out and trust someone to sit in while he goes forward. The more fluid the better for him and most of our players in general actually.

      Like I said, not world class but a real solid player. If someone replaces him in the summer, so be it but for now we don't have better options.

      If you think Can is better in that role well then I don't know what to say, we just value different qualities and see different aspects of play on the field

      Ok, you're right, I've never seen you say he is world class so I apologise for putting words in your mouth.

      You do however seem to rate him to quite some extent. I find that baffling just like you find it equally baffling that I see nothing in him at all.

      You think he delivers 7/8 type performances most weeks but I think he is more of a 5/6. I would say somebody like coutinho delivers 7/8 performances most weeks and Henderson is definitely a level below him.

      I find it interesting that you think he is best suited in the 6 role which is why I asked you the question. For me, and many reds out there, we have been crying out for a DM for so many years now so doesn't that ring alarm bells? We all (or most of us it seems) want a DM to come into the squad but then that would mean replacing Jordan, our skipper.

      The alternative would be to push Jordan further upfield and this obviously boils down to opinions now. It is my opinion that Jordan doesn't have the ability to play such a role. I've always found him to be a limited footballer and somewhat basic. Lallana, coutinho, Keita and even Wijnaldum would surely play in that role before Henderson. Jordan just isn't creative enough to play in that position. He isn't technical enough.

      If we are going to persist with Henderson then I'd have to play him in the 6 role too but I dont think his reading of the game is very good. I don't think his positioning is that great and I'm not convinced by his tackling abilities either. He isn't a very good DM so I'd always feel uncomfortable about it and I'd always want to upgrade.

      We have proven many times that we can defend perfectly fine (and better) without him.

      So to summarise, I don't see him having a future here, not if we seriously want to challenge for honours. We need a proper DM and when it comes to the 8 role then the players we already have are on another level compared to Henderson in that position.
      GERNS
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #488: Dec 12, 2017 12:27:01 am
      Sorry but you don't know what you're talking about. 5/6 out of 10, annoymous performance. Wouldn't notice if he wasn't on... I mean it's rubbish it really is.

      I find it hugely ironic you have Hamann in your name as he never set the world alight with marquee performances but put in the quiet work you 'don't notice' as the saying goes. Hendo does very similar things

      I can't believe there is anyone out there, thinking that Henderson is of high enough quality to lead Liverpool Football Club as captain.
      His contribution in a game is more often than not a negative one as far as attacking football goes. I've not often seen a pro footballer need ing so much time on a ball before he lays a pass. Then it is usually sideways. The few passes he plays forwards he usually overhits or misplaces, and his shooting is abysmal.
      On the positive side, he has a good engine as they say, so in the latter stages of a game, if he's not being played off the park by his opposite number, he occasionally gets an interception in, of chases down a runner with the ball.
       Very little else to be fair. Take a look at the midfield players at Arsenal, City, Utd, Chelsea, and Spurs. Is Henderson gonna move to any of those clubs, and immediately displace one of the current players there ? Ha, Not a F***ing chance.  Says it all really doesn't it.
      Swab
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #489: Dec 12, 2017 12:51:52 am
      Never rated the player... Thought he was as bad as Downing,Adams,Carrol and the other KK signings. Said it then and i'll say it now His:(KK) signing set us back five years...

      The sooner Henderson goes the better i'll feel

      Wassup precious, not getting attention, so tried to be as insulting as possible?

       :roll: what a WUM.
      fishpie
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #490: Dec 12, 2017 03:31:11 am
      Sorry but you don't know what you're talking about. 5/6 out of 10, annoymous performance. Wouldn't notice if he wasn't on... I mean it's rubbish it really is.

      I find it hugely ironic you have Hamann in your name as he never set the world alight with marquee performances but put in the quiet work you 'don't notice' as the saying goes. Hendo does very similar things

      This thread is nuts. Now the Henderson defense force are saying Hamann wasn't that great and Henderson is a similar pedigree lmao. 
      heimdall
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #491: Dec 12, 2017 08:30:18 am
      Sorry but you don't know what you're talking about. 5/6 out of 10, annoymous performance. Wouldn't notice if he wasn't on... I mean it's rubbish it really is.

      I find it hugely ironic you have Hamann in your name as he never set the world alight with marquee performances but put in the quiet work you 'don't notice' as the saying goes. Hendo does very similar things

      Oh F**k right off Hamann is 10 times the player Henderson ever was, is or will be. What is it you see in Jordan that no one else sees, seriously what is so F***ing good about him compared to other top midfielders. Is he better at scoring goals, NO, is he better at defence splitting passes, NO, is he better at tackling NO, is he better at controlling and lifting the team, NO. then what in the F**k is he so good at in your opinion?? OK I've seldom seen anyone better at pinging off a 5 yard sideways pass within 1 millisecond of receiving the ball but that's about it, and it really isn't such a useful quality.
      heimdall
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #492: Dec 12, 2017 08:34:48 am
      Wassup precious, not getting attention, so tried to be as insulting as possible?

       :roll: what a WUM.

      Mirror
      molbys belly
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #493: Dec 12, 2017 09:40:01 am
      Simple fact is he isn't good enough for the mighty reds let alone be captain
      Magillionare
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #494: Dec 12, 2017 03:37:28 pm
      Oh F**k right off Hamann is 10 times the player Henderson ever was, is or will be. What is it you see in Jordan that no one else sees, seriously what is so F***ing good about him compared to other top midfielders. Is he better at scoring goals, NO, is he better at defence splitting passes, NO, is he better at tackling NO, is he better at controlling and lifting the team, NO. then what in the F**k is he so good at in your opinion?? OK I've seldom seen anyone better at pinging off a 5 yard sideways pass within 1 millisecond of receiving the ball but that's about it, and it really isn't such a useful quality.

      You don't see it, that's cool. If you think all he does is pass sideways you just aren't clever enough to notice the more nuanced aspect of the game.

      I've explained enough times and given the stats to back it up. I'm done teaching remedial class.
      FL Red
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #495: Dec 12, 2017 03:52:46 pm
      Regardless of all of the bickering over Henderson, like Lallana, he appears to be a Klopp favorite so it really doesn't matter...he's not going to get any real challenge for playing time until Keita comes in. At that point we will see how much Klopp really rates Jordan.

      I think he blows hot and cold myself. Some games I think his contributions are overstated and some games I think they are understated. One things for sure, not too many people take a pragmatic look at his play, most are either on the side of burn him at the stake or give him a statue in front of Anfield.
      Scotia
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #496: Dec 12, 2017 03:58:55 pm
      You don't see it, that's cool. If you think all he does is pass sideways you just aren't clever enough to notice the more nuanced aspect of the game.

      I've explained enough times and given the stats to back it up. I'm done teaching remedial class.

      I’ve retired on it Mags - the fact that you never, ever derided Didi as a player OR said Hendo was superior has been totally lost. You made a point - re a specific poster - that Didi was not the most expansive player. F**k me - even his mother would agree......

      My views are well known - I have always felt that Henderson was far, far more important to us than many did.

      Bottom line is that changing him - except for a clear upgrade (which I’m all over, as with any player) - is not the panacea that some constantly project.

      « Last Edit: Dec 12, 2017 05:17:14 pm by Scotia »
      Magillionare
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #497: Dec 12, 2017 04:52:44 pm
      I’ve retired on it Mags - the fact that you never, ever derided Didi as a player OR said Hendo was superior has been totally lost. You made a point - re a specific poster - that Didi was not the most expansive player. F**k me - even his mother would agree......

      My views are well known - I have always felt that Henderson was far, far more important to us than many did.

      Bottom line is that changing him - for a clear upgrade (which I’m all over, as with any player) - is not the panacea that some constantly project.



      It comes to no surprise to me that those incorrect inferences were made by the same people who don't rate Hendo. They only see what they want to see be it on a pitch or in a post. Narrow mindedness at its finest
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #498: Dec 12, 2017 05:26:50 pm
      It comes to no surprise to me that those incorrect inferences were made by the same people who don't rate Hendo. They only see what they want to see be it on a pitch or in a post. Narrow mindedness at its finest

      It's not narrow minded. I've made my feelings perfectly clear on Henderson in that he is dog sh*t to be polite. You brought Hamann into it making comparisons and said it's 'ironic' that I use his name, therefore suggesting he wasn't a good player.

      He was a good player, not the greatest mind, but he was a lot better than Jordan Henderson.

      It pleases me that more and more reds and realising how limited he is and what a poor captain he has been. You, scotia have now become the minority when it wasn't long ago it was people such as myself who was.

      This is despite making progress under Klopp too. People still want him out.

      Don't think it can be argued that we've played much better without him in the side and even though I don't have the stats infront of me to prove it, I'll be gobsmacked if the results don't show it too.
      Harrisimo
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #499: Dec 12, 2017 05:27:08 pm
      Hamann was always judged on what he can do and what he did. Excellent holding player and judged as such.

      Henderson is not judged on what he can do. If we get beat and he's playing then he gets slated, if we win he did OK, if he isn't playing and we win big, it's because he wasn't playing. The lad can't win.

      In essence Henderson is a very good midfield player, never spectacular, but dependable, hardly ever loses possession, can spread the play, get the odd goal. A good all round solid midfielder. The nark I would have with him is he nearly always passes to an unmarked man, he should trust the flair players a bit more, give it early and they have a chance, but in a sense he is over cautious and doesn't want to lose possession and put us under a counter attack, that's understandable, it's the percentage game.

      He's not world class but if he doesn't produce world class display's he get criticised for it. That's the way it is. He played well against Everton but we will really get an insight into Klopp's thinking if Henderson doesn't play V West Brom.

      We shall see. If he's out he's not rested..he's dropped.
      Magillionare
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #500: Dec 12, 2017 06:17:28 pm
      It's not narrow minded. I've made my feelings perfectly clear on Henderson in that he is dog sh*t to be polite. You brought Hamann into it making comparisons and said it's 'ironic' that I use his name, therefore suggesting he wasn't a good player.

      He was a good player, not the greatest mind, but he was a lot better than Jordan Henderson.

      It pleases me that more and more reds and realising how limited he is and what a poor captain he has been. You, scotia have now become the minority when it wasn't long ago it was people such as myself who was.

      This is despite making progress under Klopp too. People still want him out.

      Don't think it can be argued that we've played much better without him in the side and even though I don't have the stats infront of me to prove it, I'll be gobsmacked if the results don't show it too.


      Show me where I said Hamann wasn't a good player. Show me where I even suggested. First it was thinking I was calling him world class now it's saying I think Hamann wasn't any good! I thought he was great, did the simple work that often went unnoticed, just like I think Henderson does.
      Court LFC
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #501: Dec 12, 2017 06:24:16 pm
      It's not narrow minded. I've made my feelings perfectly clear on Henderson in that he is dog sh*t to be polite. You brought Hamann into it making comparisons and said it's 'ironic' that I use his name, therefore suggesting he wasn't a good player.

      He was a good player, not the greatest mind, but he was a lot better than Jordan Henderson.

      It pleases me that more and more reds and realising how limited he is and what a poor captain he has been. You, scotia have now become the minority when it wasn't long ago it was people such as myself who was.

      This is despite making progress under Klopp too. People still want him out.

      Don't think it can be argued that we've played much better without him in the side and even though I don't have the stats infront of me to prove it, I'll be gobsmacked if the results don't show it too.


      Are you Didi in disguise?  :roll:

      Ribapuru
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #502: Dec 12, 2017 06:28:53 pm
      Show me where I said Hamann wasn't a good player.
      I find it hugely ironic you have Hamann in your name as he never set the world alight with marquee performances but put in the quiet work you 'don't notice' as the saying goes. Hendo does very similar things
      A similar thing to Henderson would be anything that doesn't improve the performance of the team and gives that 10 men effect.
      « Last Edit: Dec 12, 2017 06:37:11 pm by Ribapuru »
      Magillionare
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #503: Dec 12, 2017 06:30:33 pm
      I really was not going to bother posting anymore, I was just going to be a reader

      Then there really would be a God that isn't called Robbie Fowler.
      Scotia
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #504: Dec 12, 2017 06:49:09 pm
      A similar thing to Henderson would be anything that doesn't improve the performance of the team and gives that 10 men effect.

      BOOM! He’s back.........return of the Mack!

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uB1D9wWxd2w
      Swab
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #505: Dec 12, 2017 07:13:09 pm
      Bottom line for me, is that I follow the club tradition of supporting a player (not slagging him off) if he wears our shirt and gives 100%

      That goes as much for Migs and Lovren as it does for Henderson.

      Some of the comments in match threads are disgusting; no one, given our tradition of supporting our players should be calling ANY player a "c**t" a "w**ker" or whatever, and whenever I see it, I think it's a F***ing disgrace.

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