We need to talk about Henderson...

A fine player who sacrificed his natural game for the sake of the team, and also seems to be a lovely fella.

He seems to be really enjoying his time in Italy, but maybe we'll see him back here one day in a coaching role (He mentioned once that he'd like to coach).

I think I'm starting to understand the reason for all this bickering and arguing, people are confusing two things, skill and attitude. Henderson, and Lucas before him, had fantastic attitudes and were rightly respected by fans, but were they skilful, game changers in the Stevie G, de Bruyne mold, no not in my opinion. Would I want them in the squad, absolutely 100% but I don't want either one as a starter, unless you need to set up very defensively and give protection to the back 4.

Only the stupid and insecure call other people stupid. Preseason or not those other players are playing well already, Henderson is NOT, is that clear enough for you?
My contention is that lack of a preseason is bloody irrelevant at this point as we are almost a month into the new season now and Henderson should be in fine form already, his England colleagues certainly seem to be.
Perhaps its better for you to admit your line of argument is wrong rather than childishly throw around insults, you know you wouldn't do it in person so stop being such a heroic keyboard warrior!

Yep you are a bit dense - why the heck would I admit I’m wrong when on something which is factually based. Henderson is easing his way back into the season after a very long season before - the manager has already stated he expect Henderson to be at full throttle come the Spurs game - shall I go tell him that you want him to say he is wrong ?! My “line of argument” is the same as the managers - should he admit he is wrong because a no mark on a forum says he is

What his “England colleagues are doing is irrelevant” - why should Henderson be in “fine form” when he hasn’t completed a full game yet ( and he hasn’t completed a full game yet because the manager is easing him into the season)  - are you that daft you can’t look at the facts.

It’s four games into the season FFS - Henderson is getting his match fitness and sharpness back after coming back to pre season 5 weeks after others. I’m calling you daft because you don’t appear to have an understand of how pre season works.

A fine player who sacrificed his natural game for the sake of the team, and also seems to be a lovely fella.

He seems to be really enjoying his time in Italy, but maybe we'll see him back here one day in a coaching role (He mentioned once that he'd like to coach).

Yep he was a superb player for his - unspectacular but did a very important job - exactly like Henderson

Yep he was a superb player for his - unspectacular but did a very important job - exactly like Henderson

I read a story once about Dunga who was playing in a pre-season match for Fiorentina. (going to paraphrase here)
The club owner was mightily unimpressed when he saw him and asked the coach what the hell he was doing buying "the only Brazilian who can't play football".
Dunga was told this at half time.
Second half, he flicked the ball over a players head, nutmegged another, and strolled through the opposition before slamming the ball into the net.

Afterwards, he said to the owner "Just because I don't do it, doesn't mean I can't. I sacrifice my own play to make the team stronger. That is what football is all about - the team".

That's the crux of the issue here; because Henderson doesn't do certain things, people assume he can't, and that's simply wrong.
He plays how the manager tells him to play.

Reminds me of the Lucas thread back in the Rafa days actually.

True, not sure a lot of people know what to expect from the role

That's the crux of the issue here; because Henderson doesn't do certain things, people assume he can't, and that's simply wrong.
He plays how the manager tells him to play.

I agree, just because a player doesn't do certain things doesn't mean he can't, but can also mean a player that doesn't do certain things probably means he can't do certain things too 

We all know Hendo has limitations, just like any player, and I am sure Klopp gives the same tactics as he would for Wijnaldum for the 6 role, but we just get a different end product on the pitch.

I agree, just because a player doesn't do certain things doesn't mean he can't, but can also mean a player that doesn't do certain things probably means he can't do certain things too 

We all know Hendo has limitations, just like any player, and I am sure Klopp gives the same tactics as he would for Wijnaldum for the 6 role, but we just get a different end product on the pitch.

It's a common misconception, but people forget that these guys are on an absolutely insane level when it comes to football.

I love it when people say Moreno is an awful footballer.
He's really not, and nor is he a particularly bad defender, except at the very highest level.

This is a guy who people describe as a crap footballer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9x1Yd9NwuA

They can do things that us mere mortals barely find credible, but the difference is they are playing against other superb players, so they don't do everything they are capable of.
The game is about winning, not showing off, and the difference between players is measured in very small percentages.
The difference between winning and losing a match can come down to whether a particular player had a bad nights sleep the night before, or didn't eat enough pre-match.

So with all due respect, saying a professional footballer, at the top of his game, at one of the biggest clubs in the world doesn't do certain things because he can't, is nonsense in my opinion.

So with all due respect, saying a professional footballer, at the top of his game, at one of the biggest clubs in the world doesn't do certain things because he can't, is nonsense in my opinion.

I am actually really confused. Are you saying Hendo is capable of playing like a Jorginho or Pjanic? Dele Ali like Eriksen? Are you saying Clyne can cross/pass like TAA?  Are you saying Ronaldo is capable of playing like a Messi etc etc, but the reason why they don't is because they are not asked to play like that?

I am actually really confused. Are you saying Hendo is capable of playing like a Jorginho or Pjanic? Dele Ali like Eriksen? Are you saying Clyne can cross/pass like TAA?  Are you saying Ronaldo is capable of playing like a Messi etc etc, but the reason why they don't is because they are not asked to play like that?

No, I'm saying that a professional footballer doesn't go out there to prove he can do certain things.
He goes out there to do the job his manager has told him to do.
Not to showboat, not to prove people wrong, but to help his team win a game.

If you ever get a chance to watch these guys just F***ing about in training, do it.
I guarantee you'll be amazed at the level of skill they have.

Henderson performs his role in the team very well, and is an excellent player.
The fact that you don't see his value and have a hard-on for Fabinho is irrelevant, the people who matter see it.

I am still of the opinion that a big reason we failed to win the league under BR was because of Henderson's suspension.
The fact that some people forget how absolutely immense he was that season never ceases to surprise me.
He does a different job now, but does it just as well.

No, I'm saying that a professional footballer doesn't go out there to prove he can do certain things.
He goes out there to do the job his manager has told him to do.
Not to showboat, not to prove people wrong, but to help his team win a game.

You are right, I don't think anyone at the highest level goes out to showboat and ignore the manager's gameplay/tactics... not even Balotelli.

If you ever get a chance to watch these guys just f**king about in training, do it.
I guarantee you'll be amazed at the level of skill they have.

Doing crazy sh*t in training doesn't necessary show you are a good player or footballer, I bet Joe Cole , C.Adam, A.Carroll, Balotelli etc were doing world class stuff in training

Henderson performs his role in the team very well, and is an excellent player.

Debatable if he is excellent or not, but for me, he has performed well enough, just like when Milner played left back and performed well enough.

The fact that you don't see his value and have a hard-on for Fabinho is irrelevant, the people who matter see it.

Well, just like you not valuing Fabinho and have "hard-on"  for Hendo is just as irrelevant, right?

 

I am still of the opinion that a big reason we failed to win the league under BR was because of Henderson's suspension.
The fact that some people forget how absolutely immense he was that season never ceases to surprise me.
He does a different job now, but does it just as well.

He was a huge miss and a vital cog to our team. He was playing in a role best suited to his attributes, hence the reason why we saw the best in Henderson. And I disagree that he has been just as important for us in the 6 as he was under Rodgers as the 8.

Yep you are a bit dense - why the heck would I admit I’m wrong when on something which is factually based. Henderson is easing his way back into the season after a very long season before - the manager has already stated he expect Henderson to be at full throttle come the Spurs game - shall I go tell him that you want him to say he is wrong ?! My “line of argument” is the same as the managers - should he admit he is wrong because a no mark on a forum says he is

What his “England colleagues are doing is irrelevant” - why should Henderson be in “fine form” when he hasn’t completed a full game yet ( and he hasn’t completed a full game yet because the manager is easing him into the season)  - are you that daft you can’t look at the facts.

It’s four games into the season FFS - Henderson is getting his match fitness and sharpness back after coming back to pre season 5 weeks after others. I’m calling you daft because you don’t appear to have an understand of how pre season works.

You call me dense but you can't seem to follow simple logic, let me break it down:

1) Henderson played for England in the world Cup.
2) he missed most of preseason
3) the same is true of all his England team mates.
4) many of his England team mates have played at least 3 full games so far at more or less their usual level.
5) Henderson has had a few subs appearances and one full game, all of which he has looked fairly poor.

So why does Henderson look so poor compared to his England colleagues?

of course swearing in infantile, its the last recourse of someone who is losing an argument, it serves no purpose in terms of trying to win a debate.

Sure thing Mother Theresa.

I can make my own mind up about people -  im more than capable of making my own judgments.

bully for you

You call me dense but you can't seem to follow simple logic, let me break it down:

1) Henderson played for England in the world Cup.
2) he missed most of preseason
3) the same is true of all his England team mates.
4) many of his England team mates have played at least 3 full games so far at more or less their usual level.
5) Henderson has had a few subs appearances and one full game, all of which he has looked fairly poor.

So why does Henderson look so poor compared to his England colleagues?

Did you see those England colleagues today as they lost against Watford.

And most of that is your opinion yet you post as if it’s fact and it’s an opinion that many will think is complete nonsense. It’s not logic it’s “opinion”

What Henderson England colleagues do is irrelevant to how Klopp is treating Henderson - he wants to ease him into the season , right now the team sits at the top of the table , other teams with his “England colleagues” are sat below and none of them are lighting up the league.

It’s four games into the season - there is going to be over 40 games left - plenty of games for Henderson to play in ( and he will do ) - yet you want to judge him on the first four

Doing crazy sh*t in training doesn't necessary show you are a good player or footballer, I bet Joe Cole , C.Adam, A.Carroll, Balotelli etc were doing world class stuff in training

They are all good players, good footballers, even fat charlie
Cole was too old when he came here, but still did OK.
Carroll and Balotelli's problems are attitude and mentality.
None of which makes them bad footballers, just bad team players.

Well, just like you not valuing Fabinho and have "hard-on"  for Hendo is just as irrelevant, right?

Yeah, I thought you were better than just making sh*t up, but perhaps I was wrong.

The only thing I've said about Fabinho is that I haven't seen enough of him to make a call.
That can take a while, especially as he's not playing yet.

 

Yeah, I thought you were better than just making sh*t up, but perhaps I was wrong.

The only thing I've said about Fabinho is that I haven't seen enough of him to make a call.
That can take a while, especially as he's not playing yet.

But Swab, I could say the same about your snide remark over Fabinho towards me (hard-on ), something I didn't expect as I felt we were engaged in a friendly debate/chat. But whatever.

But you know, I wasn't twisting anything as I do recall (correct me if I am wrong) you not being overly impressed by him (which is fair enough as you haven't seen much of him), hence the reason why I don't think you see how valuable he can and will be. Even if going by pre-season games alone, surely you could see the huge difference in what he brings in comparison to what Hendo has bought over the last few years?

Tbh, I am a little surprised that you don't see what I see in Fabinho (even if it's only pre-season matches), as I do recall you understanding the importance and knowing how good Lucas was for us when played in the 6 role, something I still can't see in Hendo as the 6.

Did you see those England colleagues today as they lost against Watford.

You don't half talk sh*te!
Spurs team v Watford.

Vorm
Alderweireld Substituted at 81 minutes
Sánchez
Vertonghen
Dembélé Substituted at 86 minutes
Trippier
Eriksen
Alli
Davies Substituted 89 minutes
Lucas Moura
Kane

3 players in that team are English. They all lasted 90 minutes + injury time.
You're argument has crumbled.

But Swab, I could say the same about your snide remark over Fabinho towards me (hard-on ), something I didn't expect as I felt we were engaged in a friendly debate/chat. But whatever.

But you know, I wasn't twisting anything as I do recall (correct me if I am wrong) you not being overly impressed by him (which is fair enough as you haven't seen much of him), hence the reason why I don't think you see how valuable he can and will be. Even if going by pre-season games alone, surely you could see the huge difference in what he brings in comparison to what Hendo has bought over the last few years?

Tbh, I am a little surprised that you don't see what I see in Fabinho (even if it's only pre-season matches), as I do recall you understanding the importance and knowing how good Lucas was for us when played in the 6 role, something I still can't see in Hendo in the 6 role.

It wasn't snide on my part, just a figure of speech, so apologies if it sounded bad, as it wasn't meant that way.

I only saw 1 pre-season game, and didn't see anywhere near enough to make a call on Fabinho.
I mentioned that he looked slow, but also said it was only pre-season.
I also remember him misplacing a few passes, but again, said it was only pre-season.

I can't be impressed when I have barely seen him play, and nor would I write him off.
It's just far too early for me to make that call.

He's here to replace Can, and if good enough, push for the 6 (ish) role.

Klopp's already spoken of Henderson playing further up, as well as at 6 (ish), so it's pretty clear he is foremost in Klopp's mind, which is fair enough as it's up to the newbie to impress enough to oust the current player.

We'll see, but if you're waiting for Henderson to be benched and not a regular, I think you'll be disappointed.

It wasn't snide on my part, just a figure of speech, so apologies if it sounded bad, as it wasn't meant that way.

I only saw 1 pre-season game, and didn't see anywhere near enough to make a call on Fabinho.
I mentioned that he looked slow, but also said it was only pre-season.
I also remember him misplacing a few passes, but again, said it was only pre-season.

I can't be impressed when I have barely seen him play, and nor would I write him off.
It's just far too early for me to make that call.

He's here to replace Can, and if good enough, push for the 6 (ish) role.

Klopp's already spoken of Henderson playing further up, as well as at 6 (ish), so it's pretty clear he is foremost in Klopp's mind, which is fair enough as it's up to the newbie to impress enough to oust the current player.

We'll see, but if you're waiting for Henderson to be benched and not a regular, I think you'll be disappointed.

Apologies on my side if you thought I was twisting your words, no intention of doing so. And I just thought you watched the whole of pre-season, so fair enough if you have only seen 1 match!

Initially, I thought Wijnaldum, Fabinho and Keita would be the ideal midfield trio, but after seeing how Milner has performed in a more football minded midfield, I think having that more direct industrial player in midfield gives us a better balance and more impetus in attacks.

For me, I still think Hendo is the better player over Milner as the 8, and I am still holding out for that 13/14 Hendo. To this day, I am still baffled as to why he never continued to play that role. I still think Hendo will be our main 6 because I believe Klopp considers him a good/excellent reliable player, but obviously, I want more than that and believe Wijnaldum or Fabinho can take us to the next level

Came in to hopefully see people discuss his poor performance against Leicester and comment on the huge difference in 1. Not having Gini as the 6 and 2. Not having Keita on the pitch but instead I'm seeing shouts of Henderson can do magical things in training and even videos of Moreno doing rabonas.

I'll come back another time.

You don't half talk sh*te!
Spurs team v Watford.

Vorm
Alderweireld Substituted at 81 minutes
Sánchez
Vertonghen
Dembélé Substituted at 86 minutes
Trippier
Eriksen
Alli
Davies Substituted 89 minutes
Lucas Moura
Kane

3 players in that team are English. They all lasted 90 minutes + injury time.
You're argument has crumbled.

Christ another spanner who is missing the point

How exactly do you think my argument has “crumbled”

Yes all three England players played in the Match and they lost - that was the point because your dense mate was bleating on about how well they are playing despite no pre season.

Have you let the manager know that he is doing it wrong ? Surely if you have spotted such a grave error in how a manager looks after his players you should get right onto the phone to him 

Or are you just another dullard with an over inflated ego who believes his opinion to be fact

If you are fully understanding of the fitness of premiership footballers then I expect you must be a fully qualified fitness coach - but we all know you arent and are just peddled a clear baseless agenda on a player the manager clearly rates

You don't half talk sh*te!
Spurs team v Watford.

Vorm
Alderweireld Substituted at 81 minutes
Sánchez
Vertonghen
Dembélé Substituted at 86 minutes
Trippier
Eriksen
Alli
Davies Substituted 89 minutes
Lucas Moura
Kane

3 players in that team are English. They all lasted 90 minutes + injury time.
You're argument has crumbled.

... I think the 3 players playing 90mins and losing the game was his point in the first place...

I'm against the idea of playing Hendo further up the pitch in situation we need to score, in such situation he need to play as deepest midfield.

His most frustrate trait is he almost one dimensional play. He always make back pass no matter where on the pitch he is.  It's like he didn't realize what the strengths of his teammates.  He refuse to look at the like of Mo or Robbo shifted to the space waiting for the pass to run onto, despite someone point finger or shout at him what the better to do Hendo just pass it back or side to nearest teammate

He's only useful as deepest midfield or in situation we really need an extremely defensive mind body, but put him in place require creativity it's more like we start with 10 players.

Saying so, his defensive contributions also not great but he's useful for sure.