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      First Team Squad Going Forward

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      Robby The Z
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      First Team Squad Going Forward
      Oct 23, 2017 06:19:44 pm
      I'm looking at long-term prospects for those listed on our first team squad on the official web site. I don't mean by this that we should be writing off our season. There is still plenty to play for, and I do think we will rebound. But yesterday reminds me that there is a process at work, like it or not. So I'm thinking in terms of the championship-winning side that Jürgen is looking to build (4 years is the number I see most frequently used, which means next season or the season after, I think).

      GK
      Mignolet - Not the long-term option.
      Karius - Maybe the long-term option, but needs to play much more this season to have an idea. Fits our style of play better than Migs, but does he fit the English style of play (which we tend to play against because...we are in England).
      Ward - He was kept here this season for a reason. I'd say he needs to play more as well.
      Bogdan - Just waiting for his contract to expire I guess. I think he is still rehabbing an injury but even if the other 3 got injured at the same time, I think Klopp would use one of the kids before Adam.

      Defence
      Clyne - I think we've missed him more than I realized we would.
      Matip - Agree with many on here that he can be decent as a 2nd center back. He's played well for us more often than not, but this season he has struggled and this in in part due to the rest of the group.
      Lovren - Personally it wouldn't bother me a bit at this phase if he's shipped out in January. In truth, he will probably remain for a good bit as a squad player because I don't see teams lining up to buy him, but, we managed to sel Skrtel, so...
      Gomez - Potentially a future starting center back for us. Should be given more opportunities while we are waiting for VVd or whoever to come in.
      Klavan - useful backup - no more.
      Moreno - Has done better defensively this season it is true, but I will remind people that while his pace is good going forward, his service more often than not is not good.
      Robertson - Has looked good in limited opportunities. Hope to see more of him this season to see if he will be our left back of the future.
      TAA - Very promising, but needs to improve as a defender.
      Flanagan - Sorry about the injuries, but should be moved on unless he wants to be an unused squad player for the rest of his contract.
      Overall: So regarding our future, championship winning side - I see zero definites and a few possibilities
       
      Midfield
      Gini - will he be in the starting midfield three of the championship winning team. My gut tells me probably not, but he could still be an important part of the team. He's as clean technically as they come, but he has to step up more in tougher situations so...possibly.
      Milner - Utility player. Useful in the squad, but let's not get so over the top excited when he happens to have a good game against teams from Slovenia. I think his character is good, but hey, guys get old. It's what happened.
      Coutinho - He's mostly being a professional as far as I can tell, but I do think his head has been permanently turned and while Jürgen was right to stand up to Barcelona - it's probably just as well that he move on now (by now I expect the end of the season rather than January).
      Henderson - such a divisive subject on here. I think back to matches a few years ago when he was playing farther ahead in the midfield and he could be a real difference maker. Sadly he does not seem to be that same player anymore, and if consistency is what you want from your midfield leader, I'd have to say he is lacking there. Unfair to compare him to Gerrard, but I don't think he will be part of that championship-winning team.
      Grujic - Starting to feel he will never step up to stake a claim for a first team place. Maybe it's unfair that he doesn't get a real chance, but that's life at a top club. Wouldn't shock me to see him off this summer.
      Lallana - We really miss him, yeah? He could definitely be part of that winning side.
      Emre - Yesterday seals it for me - he doesn't want to be there. All the physical qualities you could want from a midfielder, but his brain seems to have been lost in the post. I will expect him to leave in the summer and I will be unhappy with Jürgen if maintains a first team place going forward (barring some total revolution in Emre's attitude and performance).
      Markovic - waiting for someone else to pay his wages, nothing more.
      Wilson - Should get a chance at some point. Some rumblings that he's a bit on the unruly side.
      Ejaria - I thought he looked a great prospect at the U17 World Cup, but he's clearly some way off from contending for a regular place in the first team.
      Should add here that Keita is definitely pegged to be a key member of the first team in midfield.

      Forwards
      Ox - He could end up playing more as a #8 depending on what happens with Phil, but these last 2-3 matches he's eased my fears about being a bad signing. I think he can become an important part of our attack.
      Firmino - I think his season has been affected by the big drop in our midfield performance. His work rate is just the same though and he should be a big part of our success going forward.
      Sturridge - Probably crowded out numbers-wise unless he is content with being a regular backup on matchday. Quite a good backup to have, mind you, but I wouldn't expect him to want this.
      Salah - Huge part of our future.
      Mane - See Salah.
      Ings - See Flanagan.
      Solanke - Promising beginning. He definitely can be a key attacking option with continued development.
      Woodburn - Very exciting prospect, but I hope to see him get more opportunities this season. Could end up being used more as a midfielder, but seems to have quite a nose for goal.

      So where does that leave us? Of 11 starting positions, we have 3 definites (Sadio, Mo, Naby) and four if Phil surprises me and ends up staying around (doubt it).
      Now the number we should be looking at is more like 16 because you really want a handful of key subs who are just as valuable as the first choice 11. Of that number we probably have 3-7 more in Gini, Adam, Bobby, Ox, Clyne and maybe Matip or Gomez.

      Then you may end up adding Karius or Ward to that group of 16 or 17, or maybe not. This all adds up to leave us with a lot of maybes and a lot of definitely nots.

      I get that with Klopp it is all about the system, and I'm fine with that - but even there I think we are still some way short of completing the group that would put the smiles on the faces of supporters for a long time to come.  Hopefully a couple of young players can make the big leap to becoming a top player (Rhian Brewster and Liam Miller seem possibilities for that as well, but with kids you never know). Hopefully more of these "maybes" can make it than don't - but it is pretty evident there will need to be multiple top-level additions to form that truly serious contender over the long haul.

      What do you think? Are we closer than that? Farther away?
      bazspeedman
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      Re: First Team Squad Going Forward
      Reply #1: Oct 24, 2017 12:34:59 pm
                                    Ward

      TAA/Clyne   Gomez   Matip    Moreno/AR

                                  Grujic

                  Gini/Hendo         Cou/Lallana

          Salah        Solanke/Firmino          Mane
      « Last Edit: Oct 24, 2017 12:39:40 pm by bazspeedman »
      RedFergie
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      Re: First Team Squad Going Forward
      Reply #2: Oct 24, 2017 12:56:29 pm
      Phil Jones was a complete donkey and even Blackburn wouldn't take him back on loan, yet with a change of manager (one who really understands the need to defend) he has become one of the best centre backs in the Premier this year. This begs the question that why are the majority of your potential Championship winning side not playing or only play bit parts ? Klopp is the problem ! Christ if Claudio can win the Premiership with Wes Morgan and Robert Huth surely something is wrong with Klopps idea of how to play the game.
      Brian78
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      Re: First Team Squad Going Forward
      Reply #3: Oct 24, 2017 01:22:16 pm
      Phil Jones was a complete donkey and even Blackburn wouldn't take him back on loan, yet with a change of manager (one who really understands the need to defend) he has become one of the best centre backs in the Premier this year. This begs the question that why are the majority of your potential Championship winning side not playing or only play bit parts ? Klopp is the problem ! Christ if Claudio can win the Premiership with Wes Morgan and Robert Huth surely something is wrong with Klopps idea of how to play the game.

      Youll be ridiculed for your username but your point is excellent
      RobieSlick
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      Re: First Team Squad Going Forward
      Reply #4: Oct 24, 2017 02:43:05 pm
      Youll be ridiculed for your username but your point is excellent

      He is a troll.
      SM
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      Re: First Team Squad Going Forward
      Reply #5: Oct 24, 2017 02:51:33 pm
      Phil Jones was a complete donkey and even Blackburn wouldn't take him back on loan, yet with a change of manager (one who really understands the need to defend) he has become one of the best centre backs in the Premier this year. This begs the question that why are the majority of your potential Championship winning side not playing or only play bit parts ? Klopp is the problem ! Christ if Claudio can win the Premiership with Wes Morgan and Robert Huth surely something is wrong with Klopps idea of how to play the game.

      Why are you Mancs so obsessed with us that you sign up and then post knowing you will soon be banned for being a wind up merchant?

      What a strange bunch.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: First Team Squad Going Forward
      Reply #6: Oct 24, 2017 04:02:56 pm
      Phil Jones was a complete donkey and even Blackburn wouldn't take him back on loan, yet with a change of manager (one who really understands the need to defend) he has become one of the best centre backs in the Premier this year. This begs the question that why are the majority of your potential Championship winning side not playing or only play bit parts ? Klopp is the problem ! Christ if Claudio can win the Premiership with Wes Morgan and Robert Huth surely something is wrong with Klopps idea of how to play the game.

      Of the potentially dumb responses I might have anticipated receiving to this, you completely broke the scales for inaccuracy and irrelevance.
      DanMann
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      Re: First Team Squad Going Forward
      Reply #7: Oct 24, 2017 04:22:10 pm

      Really? With only 2 posts to his name, and one very relevant, what makes you assume he is a troll?

      You may be right - but quite a jump in judgement I'm guessing based on a name "Fergie"?
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: First Team Squad Going Forward
      Reply #8: Oct 24, 2017 04:33:31 pm
      Really? With only 2 posts to his name, and one very relevant, what makes you assume he is a troll?

      You may be right - but quite a jump in judgement I'm guessing based on a name "Fergie"?

      Could be fergie from the black eyed peas
      DanMann
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      Re: First Team Squad Going Forward
      Reply #9: Oct 24, 2017 04:40:23 pm
      Could be fergie from the black eyed peas

      You're right. I was wrong to assume a "he".   ;D
      Brian78
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      Re: First Team Squad Going Forward
      Reply #10: Oct 24, 2017 04:42:57 pm

      That may be but his point is still valid is it not?
      chats
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      Re: First Team Squad Going Forward
      Reply #11: Oct 24, 2017 05:05:25 pm
      GK - Ward and Karius have until the end of the season to fight for next season's number two spot. Sell the other along with Mignolet and buy a keeper.

      RB - if Clyne gets back to fitness soon then not an area of immediate concern but that shouldn't stop us being on the lookout for improvements.

      CB - sell Lovren and Klavan. Give Gomez a go to see if he can be a decent option. Sign two CBs to relegate Matip to third choice.

      LB - same as RB really.

      DM - sign someone to push Henderson into a squad player role. Sell Can.

      CM - Keita will arrive and Coutinho will go so need another player there. Need to start moulding Woodburn into that position to see if he can take over from Lallana long term.

      Wingers - only area I'm truly happy with. Salah and Mane the starters, Ox can cover. Would like to see Wilson get some minutes to see if he can be an option.

      Strikers - move Ings and Sturridge on. Push Firmino to the bench and sign a proper number 9.

      It's not a horrendous squad by any means, but one that needs probably 6 new players if we want to actually challenge for trophies. The fact we're saying that in October shows just how F***ing awful the summer transfer window was.
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: First Team Squad Going Forward
      Reply #12: Oct 24, 2017 06:03:30 pm
      You're right. I was wrong to assume a "he".   ;D

      Or even sarah ferguson, ex duchess of york
      PastorGeek
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      Re: First Team Squad Going Forward
      Reply #13: Oct 24, 2017 10:27:32 pm
      4-1-2-3 leaves us so exposed.
      HScRed1
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      Re: First Team Squad Going Forward
      Reply #14: Oct 24, 2017 10:51:54 pm

      Why?

      harrydunn08
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      Re: First Team Squad Going Forward
      Reply #15: Oct 25, 2017 12:53:22 am
      GK - Ward and Karius have until the end of the season to fight for next season's number two spot. Sell the other along with Mignolet and buy a keeper.

      RB - if Clyne gets back to fitness soon then not an area of immediate concern but that shouldn't stop us being on the lookout for improvements.

      CB - sell Lovren and Klavan. Give Gomez a go to see if he can be a decent option. Sign two CBs to relegate Matip to third choice.

      LB - same as RB really.

      DM - sign someone to push Henderson into a squad player role. Sell Can.

      CM - Keita will arrive and Coutinho will go so need another player there. Need to start moulding Woodburn into that position to see if he can take over from Lallana long term.

      Wingers - only area I'm truly happy with. Salah and Mane the starters, Ox can cover. Would like to see Wilson get some minutes to see if he can be an option.

      Strikers - move Ings and Sturridge on. Push Firmino to the bench and sign a proper number 9.

      It's not a horrendous squad by any means, but one that needs probably 6 new players if we want to actually challenge for trophies. The fact we're saying that in October shows just how f**king awful the summer transfer window was.

      Pretty much nails it for me. 

      One criticism I have (probably an unfair criticism in all honesty) is that I kind of expected Klopp to take advantage of his knowledge of the Bundesliga and his allure as a top class manager to recruit top, young German talent.  Jürgen is one of the only top German managers at club level, so I had hoped we would see some of those players headed to Anfield.  Goretzka is definitely one we should be all in for.  I'd suggest Ozil too -- some will say he's overrated, but I think he'd thrive in our team picking out the runs of Mane and Salah. 
      AlwaysTheKop
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      Re: First Team Squad Going Forward
      Reply #16: Oct 25, 2017 08:11:06 am
      Would only happen in a career mode on Fifa but....

      Migs and Bogdan out +£10m
      Leno in -£15m

      Flanagan, Lovren and Klavan out  +£20m
      VVD and Tah in -£50m

      Can, Markovic and Coutinho out +£110m
      Weigl and Goretzka in -£45m

      Ings and Sturridge out  +£30m
      Icardi/Werner in -£50m

      In - £170
      Out - £160

      I know prices are probably not what would be paid, just went off current value.

                     Leno
      Clyne  VVD Tah Rob’son
                    Weigl
            Keita      Lallana
      Salah     Icardi     Mane

      Bench: Karius, Matip, Milner, Hendo, Goretzka, Ox, Firmino
      « Last Edit: Oct 25, 2017 08:26:03 am by AlwaysTheKop »
      LFCSTEVE1984
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      Re: First Team Squad Going Forward
      Reply #17: Oct 25, 2017 10:36:08 am
      Would only happen in a career mode on Fifa but....

      Migs and Bogdan out +£10m
      Leno in -£15m

      Flanagan, Lovren and Klavan out  +£20m
      VVD and Tah in -£50m

      Can, Markovic and Coutinho out +£110m
      Weigl and Goretzka in -£45m

      Ings and Sturridge out  +£30m
      Icardi/Werner in -£50m

      In - £170
      Out - £160

      I know prices are probably not what would be paid, just went off current value.

                     Leno
      Clyne  VVD Tah Rob’son
                    Weigl
            Keita      Lallana
      Salah     Icardi     Mane

      Bench: Karius, Matip, Milner, Hendo, Goretzka, Ox, Firmino

      Yeah not with our owners, just found our belated Suarez replacements on my scouting mission though.

      The Pakistani and Iraqi Suarez's...

      Don't play footy but they're cheap, sure FSG will give Klopp time to coach them.





      We might even be able to poach the Iranian Messi if we can spread the budget that far.



      The 200 quid war chest might just be able to stretch that far 60 quid each on the two Suarez and 80 quid on Messi.

      They'll make that back in less than a day charging people for selfies.

       :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
      « Last Edit: Oct 25, 2017 10:40:58 am by LFCSTEVE1984 »
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: First Team Squad Going Forward
      Reply #18: Oct 25, 2017 01:28:38 pm
      GK

      Mignolet - He has been our number 1 now for 4/5 seasons and I think its fair to say that each season he costs us more games than he wins them for us. A world class goalie probably saves you 10/12 points a season. Mignolet usually costs us that. Has proven time and time again he isn't good enough. Somebody F***ing sell him.

      Karius - Deserves his chance between the sticks now. With such a large part of the season left to play we will see whether he is good enough or not. Any indication that he isn't then we must sign a proper established GK in the summer once and for all. We can't keep signing players with potential who never seem to fulfil it here.

      Ward - I can't see him getting a look in and he will be sold in the summer.

      Defence

      Clyne - We have definitely missed Clyne this season and I for one can't wait for steady Eddie to return to the team.

      Matip - I've seen enough qualities in Matip to be happy for him to be in our team. He is good, but he isn't good enough to carry both Mignolet and the CB next to him. In a way, he is a bit like henchoz where he made a great partner for Sami, but put henchoz in the back line without sami and he would be all over the place. If Matip had a dominant, commanding, confident CB alongside him I have no doubt we would see some excellent performances from him. I think right now he doesn't trust his goalkeeper and he certainly doesn't trust his CB partner and his performances have been affected as a result.

      Lovren - Awful. Dog sh*t. I never want to see him play for us ever again. That second goal on Sunday just shows what a thick knobhed he is. Get rid. Sell. Give him away for nothing I don't care just get rid.

      Gomez - Getting better all the time and should be going into next season as our third choice CB.

      Klavan - Has played enough now to prove he isn't good enough at this level.

      Moreno - He has done ok this season to be fair to him but I still think he is a ticking bomb. It won't be long until he makes a reckless challenge and gives a penalty away, costing us 3 points somewhere. I don't like him and I don't want him playing for us. Sell.

      Robertson - I don't understand this signing at all. He has played 2/3 times and has always done well. Looked composed, confident, and he can't half whip a ball in. Klopp doesn't play him though and persists with Moreno who he left out all of last season. This to me stinks of a club signing and klopp is purposely leaving him out. From the very few games I've seen him play for us I've been impressed though and would be happy for Robertson to be first choice.

      TAA - Great prospect and will one day be our first choice right back. Needs to gain a little bit more experience first though. He will get plenty of game time in the cups until he's ready.

      Flanagan - Gutted for him but his injuries have finished him. Sell.

       
      Midfield

      Gini - I really like Gini but his lack of consistency will be his downfall. I've seen him boss games on his own and then a week later he is a ghost. I think once Keita comes in then Gini moves to the bench. Good, solid squad option.

      Milner - How can you not like Milner? He may not be the best footballer in the world but he is a top professional and always gives it his best. I doubt he will be here though because at his age he will want first team football and that's something we cant offer him. Sell.

      Coutinho - He won't be here in the summer. Just hope he doesn't act like a little tw*t this time.

      Henderson  - Captain shithouse. We need to get rid of him. He isn't good enough for Liverpool. When will people wake up and realise? Look at the midfield we had a few years ago - Mascherano, Alonso, Gerrard.  Now we have Jordan Henderson. We should be trying our best to maintain standards - not drop them significantly. Who out of our rivals would take him if they could? Nobody! And this lad is our captain!  I've said it several times before but hes at his best when we don't have the ball. He covers a lot of ground and he has high energy levels. Unfortunately for him, we only have half a dozen of those type of games every season. Usually Liverpool dominate play and that's when you see just how poor he is as a footballer. He isn't a good DM, he isn't a good CM and he isn't a good AM. I'm sick of reading the excuses for him. Get rid of him now.

      Grujic - Hasn't been given a proper chance yet so don't see why that'll change all of a sudden for next season. Squad player to fill in during cup games but i'm pretty sure he will want to move on.

      Lallana - Was one of our best players last season and has flourished under klopp and in that central role. Not only would he be in my team but he would be my captain too.

      Emre - Hes sh*te but people have short memories. Towards the end of last season he played well for us and put in some really good performances but in general his Liverpool career has been a stinker and he is another one who just isn't good enough. Im disappointed he will probably leave on a free because we would have got a bit of cash for him but im not sad for losing him. He can be upgraded on massively. 

      Markovic - Sell.

      Wilson - Loan.

      Ejaria - Loan.


      Forwards

      Ox - Similar to Robertson I don't understand this signing. Why pay 40m for a player who had less than a year remaining on his contract just to put him on your bench? Why the desperation? Why pay that money for a substitute? Any other team in the league pays 40m on a player and they go straight into their line up, but not us?. It stinks of another club signing to me and klopp may not have actually wanted him. I don't think he is better than anybody we already have here either. Squad player.

      Firmino - Im a big fan of Bobby but I think we need somebody of better quality to play as our 9. We need somebody who we know will get us 20-25 league goals each season. Bobby will probably get somewhere between 10-15. So where does he play? We've got mane and salah out wide and for me, Lallana plays as the 10. So that means Bobby drops to the bench. BUT we can't go through a whole season without injuries, poor form or suspensions so he is the first one who comes back into the 11 when somebody's missing. He will still get tons of game time.

      Sturridge - On his day there are very few better in my opinion but he has to move on to save whats left of his career.

      Salah - Our second best player.

      Mane - Our best player.

      Ings - Finished unfortunately.

      Solanke - Looks promising. Squad player.

      Origi - I like him and I'd have him in the squad but I think he will be off.

      Woodburn - Loan.


                                                               New GK  (Karius)

                       Clyne (TAA)       Matip (Gomez)        New CB (cover)     Robertson (cover)

                                               Keita  (Wijnaldum)   New CM (Grujic)

                        Mane (ox)                        Lallana (Firmino)                Salah  (cover)

                                                               New CF (Solanke)


      Whats noticeable, and worrying, to me is that we need a whole new spine.  We need a GK if Karius can't prove himself, somebody to partner Matip, a big tall powerful CM to boss play with Keita and a world class forward too.

      We need to buy a bit of cover too. Klavan and Lovren need to go so we need to sign not one, but two centre halves.

      I'd be happy for the likes of Milner and Henderson to be squad players for us but I don't know if that's possible with their wages and I doubt either would settle for that role anyway. I hope Milner ends up at somewhere like Napoli where he will be a starter for a good team abroad somewhere and Henderson can F**k off to Crystal Palace as far as im concerned.

      To summarise, I'd only have SIX players in the current squad to be in my opening game next season. That's quite worrying.
      JD
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      Re: First Team Squad Going Forward
      Reply #19: Oct 25, 2017 01:58:15 pm
      Mignolet and Lovren wouldn't be in my long term squad as I consider them both the worst players at the club in their individual positions.

      Emre Can and Coutinho both see their futures elsewhere so all together that would be 4 out for next season.

      I think losing one first team player from each of the 4 departments on the pitch is plenty and I wouldn't want to see anyone else depart just yet from the 'squad'.   

      We may, or may not, already have a replacement for Mignolet at the club.  Irrespective of how well Gomez does we are going to need at least two CB's in to replace Sakho, and Lovren.  Keita seems more than a ready enough replacement for Emre Can and 'maybe' Coutinho's departure could be alleviated temporarily by a fully fit Mane and Lallana. 

      srslfc
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      Re: First Team Squad Going Forward
      Reply #20: Oct 25, 2017 02:19:26 pm
      I said at the end of the window that we have left ourselves far too light for the amount of games we had this season and after the weekend I'm even more concerned.

      Lovrens head goes and Jürgen seemed to want to do anything but bring Klavan on. Migs being Migs  was always going to happen at some point.

      This pretty much takes out two of the players the manager sees as first choice from and already smallish squad.

      We have 1 CB, no goalkeeper the manager seems comfortable nailing his number 1, no striker and a collection of midfield players who all seem to do the same job.

      5timesacharm
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      Re: First Team Squad Going Forward
      Reply #21: Oct 25, 2017 04:38:54 pm
      I said at the end of the window that we have left ourselves far too light for the amount of games we had this season and after the weekend I'm even more concerned.

      Lovrens head goes and Jürgen seemed to want to do anything but bring Klavan on. Migs being Migs  was always going to happen at some point.

      This pretty much takes out two of the players the manager sees as first choice from and already smallish squad.

      We have 1 CB, no goalkeeper the manager seems comfortable nailing his number 1, no striker and a collection of midfield players who all seem to do the same job.

      it's increasingly making a mockery of his five centerbacks comment. Still, if he can stablise things, we're well positioned to take advantage of points being dropped by the top six.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: First Team Squad Going Forward
      Reply #22: Oct 25, 2017 06:58:18 pm
      That may be but his point is still valid is it not?
      He says the majority of those I see being in our long-term (championship-winning) top 16 or 17 are not playing or playing bit parts. The players I mentioned in that long-term squad:

      Sadio, Mo, Naby, Phil (if) Gini, Adam, Bobby, Ox, Clyne Matip, Gomez, Karius/Ward

      Most of them are first team regulars. Naby is not here yet, Adam and Clyne are injured. Only Karius or Ward are not playing regularly at this time, so 1 or 12 are not first team regulars.

      So his point is totally invalid.

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