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      Should Jürgen ask Carra to sort the defence out????

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      Mickred
      • Forum John Barnes
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      Should Jürgen ask Carra to sort the defence out????
      Oct 26, 2017 01:35:40 pm
      On one hand this would be seen as a weakness on Jürgen's part but on the other a strong decision to get some help.

      I would like to be a fly on the wall if Carra was to let rip at this shower of shitte defence, i don't think there would be many defencive players that would make the same mistake more than once.  I remember when Carra told Agger that he was not concussed and had to play on and Agger still played better than this lot while seeing double!!

      Why can we not find a player that can just defend?  this is not just Jürgen, it has been at the club for a few years now.  I had hoped that Jürgen would have sorted it by now.

      YNWA
      RobieSlick
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      Re: Should Jürgen ask Carra to sort the defence out????
      Reply #1: Oct 26, 2017 01:58:18 pm
      Don't know if he should but if I was Carra then I would offer my services (it is possible he has offered it already).

      Also, since this is a long term problem, perhaps getting Steve Clark in might not be a bad idea. I think Clark worked with the King when he was the manager taking over from Hogson.

      BTW: Someone described Liverpool as follows


      but I think they were being generous. The midfield is just as bad as defence and offence is not that good.  >:(
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Should Jürgen ask Carra to sort the defence out????
      Reply #2: Oct 26, 2017 02:02:01 pm
      This winds me up no end.

      Carragher is a local hero no doubt, a true Liverpool legend. As a player though he was bang average and that's the harsh but brutal truth of it. It cannot be questioned that he didn't put his body on the line for us and give it everything he had in every single game and that's why I'll always love him but no way was he ever this fantastic brilliant defender because he just wasn't.

      Its a myth he was this super organiser. He was at the heart of our defensive problems for many years.  He performed his very best for us in the season Sami partnered him and if I remember rightly we conceded the fewest goals in the league that year. But I remember only too well how shambolic his partnership with Skrtel was and at times Agger too.

      The same type of goals we concede now we conceded every week with him and Agger or Skrtel at the back. The likes of Droga, Zamora, Kevin Davies bullied them constantly.

      But anyway, whether you agree with me or not on that, you can't just bring somebody like Carragher in and say sort this defence out. It goes way beyond just the back four. You have to defend as a team, so you have to completely change your style, set up and even how you attack too.

      If I was to guess, id say carragher would have us set up the way Rafa did, every man behind the ball and make it very difficult for the opposition to beat us, while having flair players in attack who can win you a game. That's just not in Klopps nature.

      As frustrated as I get sometimes, I prefer and love klopps methods too. We might be off form at the minute but its all so worth it when we smash Arsenal at home 4-0 and the football he has us playing at times.

      We aren't that far away with Klopp. The way we play is fine, its exceptional at times actually, he just needs a few better players than the ones he currently has.

       
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Should Jürgen ask Carra to sort the defence out????
      Reply #3: Oct 26, 2017 02:04:54 pm
      This winds me up no end.

      Carragher is a local hero no doubt, a true Liverpool legend. As a player though he was bang average and that's the harsh but brutal truth of it. It cannot be questioned that he didn't put his body on the line for us and give it everything he had in every single game and that's why I'll always love him but no way was he ever this fantastic brilliant defender because he just wasn't.

      Its a myth he was this super organiser. He was at the heart of our defensive problems for many years.  He performed his very best for us in the season Sami partnered him and if I remember rightly we conceded the fewest goals in the league that year. But I remember only too well how shambolic his partnership with Skrtel was and at times Agger too.

      The same type of goals we concede now we conceded every week with him and Agger or Skrtel at the back. The likes of Droga, Zamora, Kevin Davies bullied them constantly.

      But anyway, whether you agree with me or not on that, you can't just bring somebody like Carragher in and say sort this defence out. It goes way beyond just the back four. You have to defend as a team, so you have to completely change your style, set up and even how you attack too.

      If I was to guess, id say carragher would have us set up the way Rafa did, every man behind the ball and make it very difficult for the opposition to beat us, while having flair players in attack who can win you a game. That's just not in Klopps nature.

      As frustrated as I get sometimes, I prefer and love klopps methods too. We might be off form at the minute but its all so worth it when we smash Arsenal at home 4-0 and the football he has us playing at times.

      We aren't that far away with Klopp. The way we play is fine, its exceptional at times actually, he just needs a few better players than the ones he currently has.

       

      A truly ridiculous thing to say.

      And as to the thread - no. Jürgen shouldn't be asking someone who prefers punditry over coaching to sort our issues out.
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Should Jürgen ask Carra to sort the defence out????
      Reply #4: Oct 26, 2017 02:10:42 pm
      A truly ridiculous thing to say.

      And as to the thread - no. Jürgen shouldn't be asking someone who prefers punditry over coaching to sort our issues out.

      Why is it ridiculous?

      Put a physical forward up against either Carragher or Agger and they crumbled. Both were awful in the air.
      heimdall
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      Re: Should Jürgen ask Carra to sort the defence out????
      Reply #5: Oct 26, 2017 02:16:45 pm
      Why is it ridiculous?

      Put a physical forward up against either Carragher or Agger and they crumbled. Both were awful in the air.

      I agree that they weren't the best but they were a hell of a lot better than the crap we have now, and Cara's abilities as a player is not a reflection of how good he could be as a coach, a very good illustration of this is that none of Maureen, Rafa, Wenger or Klopp were very good players but all have been great coaches at one time or another.
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Should Jürgen ask Carra to sort the defence out????
      Reply #6: Oct 26, 2017 02:28:08 pm
      I agree that they weren't the best but they were a hell of a lot better than the crap we have now, and Cara's abilities as a player is not a reflection of how good he could be as a coach, a very good illustration of this is that none of Maureen, Rafa, Wenger or Klopp were very good players but all have been great coaches at one time or another.

      I disagree personally.

      If Carragher was playing in our back line now alongside either Agger or Skrtel then I'm convinced we would still be conceding from set pieces/direct balls into the box every week.

      When a player retires or moves on people quite often forget the flaws they had and only remember the good in them. Quite often you get people saying Riise was a great full back for us for example. He wasn't, he was terrible at defending and believe me I remember being in the car on the way home from the match every single week and the football phone ins would blow up with people ranting about him. But fans remember his great goals and how often he praises the club and the city and they have fooled themselves into thinking he was this great left back for us - he wasn't, he was average in truth and wouldn't have got a game for any top side back then.

      Its similar to carragher. I always see people label him as this great organiser and leader but he wasn't. Some of the goals we conceded when carragher was playing were every bit as comical now.

      I do not question one bit that he had fight, he had spirit and he had passion which is something he could inject into some of our lads. He wasn't a great defender though, just average in my opinion.

      We will never know how good he is at a coach until he takes a role up. Neville was a brilliant player it has to be said, and he talks a good game on sky sports too, but he failed miserably in his first coaching/managerial role.
      Scotia
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      Re: Should Jürgen ask Carra to sort the defence out????
      Reply #7: Oct 26, 2017 02:39:23 pm
      This winds me up no end.

      Carragher is a local hero no doubt, a true Liverpool legend. As a player though he was bang average and that's the harsh but brutal truth of it. It cannot be questioned that he didn't put his body on the line for us and give it everything he had in every single game and that's why I'll always love him but no way was he ever this fantastic brilliant defender because he just wasn't.

      Its a myth he was this super organiser. He was at the heart of our defensive problems for many years.  He performed his very best for us in the season Sami partnered him and if I remember rightly we conceded the fewest goals in the league that year. But I remember only too well how shambolic his partnership with Skrtel was and at times Agger too.

      The same type of goals we concede now we conceded every week with him and Agger or Skrtel at the back. The likes of Droga, Zamora, Kevin Davies bullied them constantly.

      But anyway, whether you agree with me or not on that, you can't just bring somebody like Carragher in and say sort this defence out. It goes way beyond just the back four. You have to defend as a team, so you have to completely change your style, set up and even how you attack too.

      If I was to guess, id say carragher would have us set up the way Rafa did, every man behind the ball and make it very difficult for the opposition to beat us, while having flair players in attack who can win you a game. That's just not in Klopps nature.

      As frustrated as I get sometimes, I prefer and love klopps methods too. We might be off form at the minute but its all so worth it when we smash Arsenal at home 4-0 and the football he has us playing at times.

      We aren't that far away with Klopp. The way we play is fine, its exceptional at times actually, he just needs a few better players than the ones he currently has.

       

      Each to their own but for me that’s miles off mate, miles.

      He’d be the first to tell you he was no Hansen or Lawrenson but he was a very decent defender.

      I’d take him in a heartbeat over any our current lot.

      Re the OP though - I’m not convinced it would help. Players have to want to defend and truthfully, other than Clyne, I’m not sure any our defenders relish that 1 on 1 thing.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Should Jürgen ask Carra to sort the defence out????
      Reply #8: Oct 26, 2017 02:55:33 pm
      Lolling at the thread.
      Mickred
      • Forum John Barnes
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      Re: Should Jürgen ask Carra to sort the defence out????
      Reply #9: Oct 26, 2017 03:01:21 pm
      My point was not to put Carra back in defence, but to have a different opinion on how to solve the problem as he does know the game very well and was a decent defender.  I agree that this has been with us for years and i can't see us winning the league until this is sorted. 

      Our midfield is not good enough, maybe Kieta will solve this next season and our attack needs to be more clinical and take their chances.  That being said, if we had a better defence we may just turn defeats into draws and draws into wins.

      Rafa was the best at killing games off and getting a result, but not exciting to watch so i would much prefer Jurgens methods to win games.
      Danzel
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      Re: Should Jürgen ask Carra to sort the defence out????
      Reply #10: Oct 26, 2017 03:37:54 pm
      My point was not to put Carra back in defence, but to have a different opinion on how to solve the problem as he does know the game very well and was a decent defender.  I agree that this has been with us for years and i can't see us winning the league until this is sorted. 

      Our midfield is not good enough, maybe Kieta will solve this next season and our attack needs to be more clinical and take their chances.  That being said, if we had a better defence we may just turn defeats into draws and draws into wins.

      Rafa was the best at killing games off and getting a result, but not exciting to watch so i would much prefer Jurgens methods to win games.

      That's where I think you're wrong. The majority of pundits, that includes Carra, honestly haven't got a clue what they're talking about and are stuck in the time when they were still playing. All they do is point out the obvious and kick in open doors. Modern football is different in a lot of areas.

      Klopp was on this show with Carra where they were analysing different situations in which we either conceded a big chance or a goal. Carra said something like:"In this situation, I would do this or would want my defender / full back to do that." Klopp then asked to rewind the whole thing and explained what he wanted the players to do in that specific situation. It was the complete opposite of what Carra thought.

      The way we set up, you can't see the defence as a different part / isolated unit of the team, you don't just have the "back four" you can take apart and coach. We defend as a unit, we press as a unit and depending on which pressing system we're playing, it's often the player closest to the ball or in a good position to press, who will press. If that's a full back, then it's a full back and then he will be the one joining the press. If Carra would come in and coach the back four, you'd have situations in which the back four is running back (which is what Carra would do in those situations) while midfield and the rest of the team are pressing, you can't have that.

      In my opinion our midfield starters (Henderson, Wijnaldum, Lallana) as a trio are good enough and offer enough defensive cover. What we see is that whenever one of our two 8's is missing and replaced by Can, Milner or even Coutinho, that we lose a lot of the midfield stability and cover that the three of them provide as a unit. Keita coming in next season and Chamberlain, in time when he gets used to the tactics, should go a long way to solving the midfield problems.
      shabbadoo
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      Re: Should Jürgen ask Carra to sort the defence out????
      Reply #11: Oct 26, 2017 03:49:02 pm
      Hmm, our manager who was not only a winning defender but also in the capacity as a 'manager' will turn to our ex player who has no managerial experience how to set up a defence as manger?..

      Playing & managing are 2 different animals..

      stuey
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      Re: Should Jürgen ask Carra to sort the defence out????
      Reply #12: Oct 26, 2017 04:13:26 pm
      Surely that is a typo!!
      Jürgen should be asking JWH&Co to sort the defence out, adding to our one solitary striker (injured) and our spluttering midfield.
      Jamie was a solid defender he is not a F***ing miracle worker.
      fckmediocrity
      • Forum Billy Liddell
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      Re: Should Jürgen ask Carra to sort the defence out????
      Reply #13: Oct 26, 2017 04:23:05 pm
      The question should be more like ''Should Jürgen ask FSG why the f*ck they haven't backed him in the transfer market when they said they would? ''
      or ''Should the supporters ask FSG where is that 200mil warchest?''
      or ''Why isn't there at least a single person with football backround running this club?''
      or ''What does *manipulate the transfer* market even mean?''
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Should Jürgen ask Carra to sort the defence out????
      Reply #14: Oct 26, 2017 04:23:07 pm
      I don't think we need a defensive coach, just better and the right sort of players for our system. We have to accept that we will never defend like Atletico, Utd & Juventus. We should look more so at the likes of Napoli and City (even Barca & Dortmund back in the days), and ask; what have they got right that we haven't?

      They all have a sweeper keepers and that allows their defenders to be more comfortable when playing high. Their midfielders are all composed and comfortable on the ball and can use possession as a form of defensive play (like Napoli), and they all have/had specialists.

      Imagine if we had, Ward/Karius, VVD, Gomez and Casemiro/Jorginho, tell me that wouldn't make a huge difference? A Sweeper keeper, central defenders that are pacey, comfortable on the ball and defending a high line. And a defense minded specialist at the hub who can bloody distribute from deep and offer composure, composure that would transcend across the team.
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: Should Jürgen ask Carra to sort the defence out????
      Reply #15: Oct 26, 2017 04:40:24 pm
      No
      alex1995
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      Re: Should Jürgen ask Carra to sort the defence out????
      Reply #16: Oct 26, 2017 05:09:59 pm
      For sure he needs help. Be it from Carragher or another person.
      David Wright
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      Re: Should Jürgen ask Carra to sort the defence out????
      Reply #17: Oct 26, 2017 05:27:31 pm
      Do not know the answer tbh, but something needs to be done. Sorting out the defence must be a priority, to get the side moving in the right direction. Successful sides where always built on a solid defence.
      Swab
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      Re: Should Jürgen ask Carra to sort the defence out????
      Reply #18: Oct 26, 2017 06:09:19 pm
      heimdall
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      Re: Should Jürgen ask Carra to sort the defence out????
      Reply #19: Oct 26, 2017 06:14:40 pm
      Hmm, our manager who was not only a winning defender but also in the capacity as a 'manager' will turn to our ex player who has no managerial experience how to set up a defence as manger?..

      Playing & managing are 2 different animals..



      "Winning defender", please explain, because as far as I've read Klopp was a second rate player who never really excelled at the highest level.
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Should Jürgen ask Carra to sort the defence out????
      Reply #20: Oct 26, 2017 06:20:14 pm
      For sure he needs help. Be it from Carragher or another person.

      The day Jürgen starts consulting people wholly unqualified and below his level in a coaching sense on how to improve his tactics is probably the day he retires. Carragher, as great a player he was for Liverpool, is not qualified. Legendary status as a player doesn't grant you those positions of wisdom.
      5timesacharm
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      Re: Should Jürgen ask Carra to sort the defence out????
      Reply #21: Oct 26, 2017 06:31:37 pm
      Why would an ex-defender ask an ex-defender to sort his defence out, especially an ex-defender with no mangerial experience under his belt?
      srslfc
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      Re: Should Jürgen ask Carra to sort the defence out????
      Reply #22: Oct 26, 2017 06:47:53 pm
      Why would an ex-defender ask an ex-defender to sort his defence out, especially an ex-defender with no mangerial experience under his belt?

      Indeed.

      It is a bit weird that we are so bad at the back with Jürgen being a defender.

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