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      Arsenal 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion

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      stuey
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      Re: Arsenal 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #525: Dec 24, 2017 12:03:26 pm

      Could you clarify the comment?
      RedWilly
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      Re: Arsenal 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #526: Dec 24, 2017 12:14:22 pm
      Just to remind everyone we did get a point. Still unbeaten in I don’t know how many games and if we beat Swansea it’ll look like a very good point.

      The reaction to every draw we've had in this ten game run is ott

      It’s never a good point if you have a 2 0 lead. Before the game, yes maybe, but you have to judge it in its context. Once again we fu**ed up from a winning position and in the most ridiculous circumstance.
      GERNS
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      Re: Arsenal 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #527: Dec 24, 2017 01:59:02 pm
      Could you clarify the comment?

      Didn’t realise I’d done that 🤪
      But while I’m here, does anyone happen to have inside information as to why Pepe was shipped out ?
      I can only think Rogers was trying to emulate Rafa when he shipped out Jerzy following Istanbull, for Pepe.
      Who he clearly felt was s better all round keeper for the long term.
      Can’t think it was just down to FSG and Pepe’s wage structure.
      bigvYNWA
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      Re: Arsenal 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #528: Dec 24, 2017 02:10:11 pm
      Just watching the El Classico. Typical way a top top team close out a game with a 2 nil lead. Just kill the tempo. Simple game management and my darling LFC have no clue of that. Just sad seen us blow way too many leads that I’m more frustrated than when we weren’t playing well at all

      Madrid were down to ten men and were a couple tap ins away from tying that one even from 0-2 down.

      Hindsight is always 20/20.

      not even Christmas tho and we're out of the running!!


      To be fair, that statement currently applies to 18 other teams around us.
      Scotia
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      Re: Arsenal 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #529: Dec 24, 2017 02:24:17 pm
      Didn’t realise I’d done that 🤪
      But while I’m here, does anyone happen to have inside information as to why Pepe was shipped out ?
      I can only think Rogers was trying to emulate Rafa when he shipped out Jerzy following Istanbull, for Pepe.
      Who he clearly felt was s better all round keeper for the long term.
      Can’t think it was just down to FSG and Pepe’s wage structure.

      I think it was money, a big character who wasn’t scared to challenge and a little bit of the point you made re Rafa.......shipping someone out before they go over the hill.

      Unfortunately Pepe’s form since then has been as far ahead of Migs as it was before  :mad:

      Pepe isn’t perfect but he’s several levels beyond Migs.
      stuey
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      Re: Arsenal 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #530: Dec 24, 2017 02:31:33 pm

      To be fair, that statement currently applies to 18 other teams around us.


      Know what you're saying mate but the majority of other teams supporters are well used to the sound of echoing trophy cabinets during their lifetimes, unlike LFC who have tasted success. and have the means and the wherewithal to bring back the glory days.
      stuey
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      Re: Arsenal 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #531: Dec 24, 2017 02:40:28 pm
      Didn’t realise I’d done that 🤪
      But while I’m here, does anyone happen to have inside information as to why Pepe was shipped out ?
      I can only think Rogers was trying to emulate Rafa when he shipped out Jerzy following Istanbull, for Pepe.
      Who he clearly felt was s better all round keeper for the long term.
      Can’t think it was just down to FSG and Pepe’s wage structure.





      PS Why why was Reina shipped out?
      A goalie who still plays at the highest levels but but did not accommodate  FSG's wage parameters at that time and still would not.

      Who would you rather see between the sticks Pepe or the balloons you mention?
      False economies in perfection.

      « Last Edit: Dec 24, 2017 02:48:04 pm by stuey »
      5timesacharm
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      Re: Arsenal 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #532: Dec 24, 2017 02:59:01 pm
      Arsenal's second goal, I think it was the 2nd, came precisely from us playing a midfield ball backwards instead of us going forward.

      The very idea that we should start 'shutting up shop' after getting a two goal lead, considering our defence and keeper, sounds like a recipe for disaster.

      We're probably better sticking with the way we play and getting in a better keeper, centre-half and centre-mid and seeing if that switches the balance of draws into wins.

      United and Chelsea's more disappointing draws than ours this weekend have put ours into some perspective.  I'd take 4 points against all of the teams near the top every season.

      There are ways of shutting up shop that send the ball in a forwards direction. Or a sideways direction and we all know we have a master of the sideways pass in the team. They have no need to throw themselves forward in a wave of attacks, they can keep possession of the ball for ten minutes and let things calm down before building up to attack again. As I've said before, when under the cosh they don't have to always attempt a counter attack, they can launch the ball into their corner, have one of the forwards keep it there while the defence reorganises itself in preparation for the next attack from which we're then in a much better position to counter attack. The dark arts are missing in our team. Players can start crumpling under the lightest of challenges and disrupt the opposition's rhythm - it's done often enough to us. Just because a sloppy ball played back results in a goal because our keeper has arms made of smoke doesn't mean we can't shut up shop, we simply have to learn how to do it properly.
      Eddieo
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      Re: Arsenal 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #533: Dec 24, 2017 04:51:11 pm
      Arsenal's second goal, I think it was the 2nd, came precisely from us playing a midfield ball backwards instead of us going forward.

      The very idea that we should start 'shutting up shop' after getting a two goal lead, considering our defence and keeper, sounds like a recipe for disaster.

      We're probably better sticking with the way we play and getting in a better keeper, centre-half and centre-mid and seeing if that switches the balance of draws into wins.

      United and Chelsea's more disappointing draws than ours this weekend have put ours into some perspective.  I'd take 4 points against all of the teams near the top every season.

      I can't argue with your reasoning but we should have players who are able to control a game when we are two ahead.

      We have three or four players who aren't good enough
      JC16
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      Re: Arsenal 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #534: Dec 24, 2017 07:57:25 pm
      A malady that has affected LFC for approximately the same period  of time our present owners have been in situ.

      The Catch 22 phenomenon was operative only while an abject, self-serving modus operandi was followed to the letter.
      The desired result of course is nothing changes.

      The same phenomenon has been followed for 8 f**king years with the the resident manager taking the flack for the faulted game plan, in place of course for the self-serving ambitions of the FSG financiers.
      They only have one master and their deinition of success will never include anything that's got f**k all to do with football trophies or a victorious LFC side.

      I applaud you for doing a great job of replacing your broken record with one that plays the same tune.
      Kopite78
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      Re: Arsenal 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #535: Dec 24, 2017 08:09:35 pm
      I'm going to throw one out that I hope people take on board to an extent to show we are growing as a side

      Not many teams go to Arsenal and play them off the park for 50 minutes, like a big brother who is holding his younger brother on the forehead as he's trying to punch him.
      We did
      Also it has to be said not many teams can f**k that up in the space of 5 minutes..
      We did
      That needs sorting out, we conceeded the second as a basic reaction that we were trying to go forward again rather than take the sting out of it. We need a cheaty pr**k at that point who hits the deck and asks for treatment for 2 minutes whilst we get our heads together.

      But here's the bit we have to take heart from

      Not many teams coĺlapse from 2-0 to 2-3 and show enough character, enough fight, enough talent to still get something from the game.. trust me a lot of teams in that position continue to hide, continue to feel sorry for themselves, continue to lick their wounds and lose the game by whatever, 2-4... 2-5... God knows

      We didn't, we got ourselves together, showed massive character and bollocks guts  and put that 5 minutes behind us and got something from it.

      That may seem like nothing but it's not, anyone who's played at any level will tell you so..

      It may feel like small crumbs of comfort or no comfort at all but it really is.. it shows such fight and ability.

      As much as we do conceed  and that obviously needs sorting out we are difficult to beat. We are so close to becoming a really top side, stick with it please.. keep the faith.
      I've not felt this personally since Rafa.. It's close, let's not panic
      6stringer
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      Re: Arsenal 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #536: Dec 24, 2017 09:55:48 pm
      Hard to believe that Arsenal scored the three against us quicker than we scored three against AC Milan in Instanbul :o
      stuey
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      Re: Arsenal 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #537: Dec 25, 2017 10:14:38 am
      I applaud you for doing a great job of replacing your broken record with one that plays the same tune.

      The record isn't damaged and is playing in the repeat mode as it has for 8 f**king years under these frauds.
      While you happily applaud like a performing seal consider how many top strikers have left to join clubs with the potential to win big.

      That situation coincides with the length of time the Carpetbaggers have been here, right now we have an identical scenario, Coutinho is as good as gone, Salah and Mane will have their heads turned.

      Why?

      A refusal to shore up the defence and midfield leaves us open to 3 goals against in fifteen minutes and another 2 points lost, unbelievably this malady has not changed in 8 years.
      « Last Edit: Dec 25, 2017 10:37:38 am by stuey »
      Roddenberry
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      Re: Arsenal 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #538: Dec 25, 2017 11:25:16 am
      A refusal to shore up the defence and midfield leaves us open to 3 goals against in fifteen minutes and another 2 points lost, unbelievably this malady has not changed in 8 years.

      Unfortunately it is not as black and white as you've tried to paint it, it's more Jekyll & Hyde. No team has conceded fewer goals at home than us and that, no matter how you try to spin it, is damn impressive in this league. As is the fact that no team has scored more than us away from home either. If we could marry these two together, hiding the Hyde so to speak, we would be a true force. The Hyde to our good doctor though is that only three teams in the top half have less goals than us and only two teams have conceded more away from home.

      I wish the problem was as binary as you imply, it simply isn't.
      « Last Edit: Dec 25, 2017 05:32:51 pm by Roddenberry »
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Arsenal 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #539: Dec 25, 2017 05:15:12 pm
      Unfortunately it is not as black and white as you've tried o paint it, it's more Jekyll & Hyde. No team has conceded fewer goals at home than us and that, no matter how you try to spin it, is damn impressive in this league. As is the fact that no team has scored more than us away from home either. If we could marry these two together, hiding the Hyde so to speak, we would be a true force. The Hyde to our good doctor though is that only three teams in the top half have less goals than us and only two teams have conceded more away from home.

      I wish the problem was as binary as you imply, it simply isn't.
      not sure i follow all that jaga. We just need a better goalie. Simples.
      Roddenberry
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      Re: Arsenal 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #540: Dec 25, 2017 05:33:55 pm
      not sure i follow all that jaga. We just need a better goalie. Simples.

      To be honest, I'm in no way shocked that you failed to comprehend something.
      stuey
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      Re: Arsenal 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #541: Dec 25, 2017 05:53:20 pm
      Unfortunately it is not as black and white as you've tried to paint it, it's more Jekyll & Hyde. No team has conceded fewer goals at home than us and that, no matter how you try to spin it, is damn impressive in this league. As is the fact that no team has scored more than us away from home either. If we could marry these two together, hiding the Hyde so to speak, we would be a true force. The Hyde to our good doctor though is that only three teams in the top half have less goals than us and only two teams have conceded more away from howe.

      I wish the problem was as binary as you imply, it simply isn't.

      It is as simple a solution as implied, spend some real money on established players who can
      make a tangible difference to our midfield and defence.
      Roddenberry
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      Re: Arsenal 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #542: Dec 25, 2017 06:17:43 pm
      It is as simple a solution as implied, spend some real money on established players who can
      make a tangible difference to our midfield and defence.


      The best home defence in the league.
      stuey
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      Re: Arsenal 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #543: Dec 25, 2017 08:27:42 pm
      The best home defence in the league.

      Is that the reason we lead the trailing pack by twenty points??

      That misrepresentation above is akin to your trying to attach any kind of kudos to our current Premierrship standing.
      How many supporters I wonder would be as ecstatic about our defensive ills as you?

      One case in point - a goalkeeper who is guaranteed to strip away our goals for tally with every appearance.
      Somebody is obviously misrepresenting some stats when Mignolet gets to be first choice week after week.and continues to sabotage our best attempts for success.

      You continue with your perverse opinion for  whatever agenda whilst we remain an also ran.
      « Last Edit: Dec 25, 2017 09:46:13 pm by stuey »
      Roddenberry
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      Re: Arsenal 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #544: Dec 25, 2017 10:13:36 pm
      Is that the reason we lead the trailing pack by twenty points??

      That misrepresentation above is akin to your trying to attach any kind of kudos to our current Premierrship standing.
      How many supporters I wonder would be as ecstatic about our defensive ills as you?

      One case in point - a goalkeeper who is guaranteed to strip away our goals for tally with every appearance.
      Somebody is obviously misrepresenting some stats when Mignolet gets to be first choice week after week.and continues to sabotage our best attempts for success.

      You continue with your perverse opinion for  whatever agenda whilst we remain an also ran.

      I'm not defending the keeper or our defence, I am saying they can defend, they can perform, as us having the best home defence record, and as a team we give up very few chances, in the league attests to that. I just don't think changing just the keeper changes a lot. Our lack of goals at home concerns me as much as our frailty in defence away from home.

      I think the situation is a lot more complicated than who is our number 1.
      stuey
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      Re: Arsenal 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #545: Dec 25, 2017 10:56:31 pm
      I'm not defending the keeper or our defence, I am saying they can defend, they can perform, as us having the best home defence record, and as a team we give up very few chances, in the league attests to that. I just don't think changing just the keeper changes a lot. Our lack of goals at home concerns me as much as our frailty in defence away from home.

      I think the situation is a lot more complicated than who is our number 1.

      A case in point is De Gea; the mancs would be no higher than mid-table but for his efforts in covering a sh*te defence, same story last season.
      Just an example of a player qualified to cover the demands and challenges his role presents.
      Roddenberry
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      Re: Arsenal 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #546: Dec 25, 2017 11:31:00 pm
      A case in point is De Gea; the mancs would be no higher than mid-table but for his efforts in covering a sh*te defence, same story last season.
      Just an example of a player qualified to cover the demands and challenges his role presents.

      But it wouldn't solve the lack of goal scoring at home. As I said, just the keeper is not the answer.  Finding a way to replicate our home defensive performances away and our away striking record at home would be more beneficial.
      stuey
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      Re: Arsenal 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #547: Dec 26, 2017 02:11:28 am
      But it wouldn't solve the lack of goal scoring at home. As I said, just the keeper is not the answer.  Finding a way to replicate our home defensive performances away and our away striking record at home would be more beneficial.

      Definitely shifting the goalposts there.
      It does appear however that you agree with the premise that 8 years of false economies continue to show our deficiencies.
      redkop63
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      Re: Arsenal 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #548: Dec 26, 2017 05:58:30 am
      If we can't defend a 2 or 3 goal lead i would suggest we put 11 players inside our box until Klopp finds a way to fix the problem. Is there a rule against that?
      Roddenberry
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      Re: Arsenal 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #549: Dec 26, 2017 09:02:54 am
      Definitely shifting the goalposts there.
      It does appear however that you agree with the premise that 8 years of false economies continue to show our deficiencies.

      No, I'm saying exactly what I said first time, maybe just in terms you could comprehend this time. As for false economies, I can't agree as it's been just as much a case of who and when as much as what and our economic level is a much lower one than the two Manchester clubs.

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