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      The goalkeeper situation

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      JD
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      Re: The goalkeeper situation
      Reply #184: Jan 17, 2018 12:15:11 am
      Could be wrong here but can't help but think Karius brought in has squared nicely with the arrival of van Dijk.

      Almost as if Klopp was waiting for an improved defence to make the keeper change.

      Mignolet might have been wiser to criticise rotation when he was actually in the side! Brainless really.
      shabbadoo
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      Re: The goalkeeper situation
      Reply #185: Jan 17, 2018 12:28:42 am
      Could be wrong here but can't help but think Karius brought in has squared nicely with the arrival of van Dijk.

      Almost as if Klopp was waiting for an improved defence to make the keeper change.

      Mignolet might have been wiser to criticise rotation when he was actually in the side! Brainless really.

      Hmmm...I like your school of thought JD.
      AZPatriot
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      Re: The goalkeeper situation
      Reply #186: Jan 17, 2018 12:30:15 am
      Could be wrong here but can't help but think Karius brought in has squared nicely with the arrival of van Dijk.

      Almost as if Klopp was waiting for an improved defence to make the keeper change.

      Mignolet might have been wiser to criticise rotation when he was actually in the side! Brainless really.

      Think that is exactly what is going on. He has got 1/2 season now to prove himself if not then I would expect a new #1 come Summer.
      shabbadoo
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      Re: The goalkeeper situation
      Reply #187: Jan 17, 2018 12:35:50 am
      Kopite78
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      Re: The goalkeeper situation
      Reply #188: Jan 17, 2018 07:00:16 am
      How do i know that Ward is not worse than The two amigos, well  they're probably as bad as we can get in all honesty. It's hard to pick a decent game they've had so yes give Ward a shot if we're not going to buy a decent keeper.

      But he may well be worse? You don't know. Klopp however sees him everyday in training and will have a better idea
      The fact he hasn't given him a chance speaks volumes to me as I trust his judgement.

      He didn't send him on loan again to give him the opportunity to train here with the first team, the fact he's never been trusted to have a go again I trust Klopps judgement in what he sees

      Ward last season at Huddersfield let in 58 goals
      For context Newcastle and Brightons keepers let in 40 each
      Sheff Wednesday's let in 45

      I wouldn't want us to sign their keepers either

      We have a top class manager and I'd prefer to trust his judgement because as poor as Mignolet and Karius have been it's just as likely in training that ward is worse. If he was so much better then I have no doubt he would have gotten a chance
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: The goalkeeper situation
      Reply #189: Jan 17, 2018 07:38:32 am
      How do i know that Ward is not worse than The two amigos, well  they're probably as bad as we can get in all honesty. It's hard to pick a decent game they've had so yes give Ward a shot if we're not going to buy a decent keeper.

      Stoke away last season?  Migs the penalty expert, and then its err um...
      redkop63
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      Re: The goalkeeper situation
      Reply #190: Jan 17, 2018 10:36:57 am
      I just compare Karius against Cech. Both of almost equal height and built. Cech rushed out to narrow angles and make sure a trailing leg in case the ball comes round this direction. Dare to face one to one against opposition player. Covers the near post very well and dived early to try to save. Karius is the opposite and I;m not sure what is our goalkeeping coach doing about it, no improvement at all after so many games. The only good point is most of the time Karius's clearance went past the 3rd quarter while Migs barely go pass the halfway mark. I;m not sure Karius has the quality to be a world class keeper. These are some of the basic goalkeeping qualities needed and he is struggling with it. Worrying times ahead. 
      sore monad
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      Re: The goalkeeper situation
      Reply #191: Jan 17, 2018 11:10:36 am
      But he may well be worse? You don't know. Klopp however sees him everyday in training and will have a better idea
      The fact he hasn't given him a chance speaks volumes to me as I trust his judgement.

      He didn't send him on loan again to give him the opportunity to train here with the first team, the fact he's never been trusted to have a go again I trust Klopps judgement in what he sees

      Ward last season at Huddersfield let in 58 goals
      For context Newcastle and Brightons keepers let in 40 each
      Sheff Wednesday's let in 45

      I wouldn't want us to sign their keepers either

      We have a top class manager and I'd prefer to trust his judgement because as poor as Mignolet and Karius have been it's just as likely in training that ward is worse. If he was so much better then I have no doubt he would have gotten a chance

      You're probably right. But Robertson is better than Moreno and Jürgen kept picking the latter, til he got injured, so it's not guaranteed he's right.

      It might just be that Jürgen doesn't want to rotate any more than he already has done. If he dropped Karius now it would send out the message that he doesn't fully believe in him either and undermine his confidence, leaving us really having to keep our fingers crossed for Ward.

      Earlier on in the season I wanted us to give Ward a go. But now that Jürgen has plumped for Karius in the league I think he has to stick with him and give him a chance. I'm not a fan of rotating goalies in the league. Playing a different one in the cups, ok. But chopping and changing in the league is a mistake imo.

      Whatever you think about Mignolet as a keeper, he is basically right about the rotation. He came off a decent season last year, started as our no 1 this year, and then was dropped against Arsenal after 3 or 4 games for no apparent reason. If Jürgen wanted Karius as our league keeper this season he should have picked him from the start imo. I don't see the point in giving your goalies what is basically a public vote of no confidence. ( And for that reason I wouldn't drop Karius now, even though I do have major doubts about him.)
      Court LFC
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      Re: The goalkeeper situation
      Reply #192: Jan 17, 2018 11:22:15 am
      Could be wrong here but can't help but think Karius brought in has squared nicely with the arrival of van Dijk.

      Almost as if Klopp was waiting for an improved defence to make the keeper change.

      Mignolet might have been wiser to criticise rotation when he was actually in the side! Brainless really.

      Thought similarly on this also.

      With VVD at the back and Karius in goal it will only benefit our play going forward. No indecisive Mignolet to Lovren passing at the back!!
      Kopite78
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      Re: The goalkeeper situation
      Reply #193: Jan 17, 2018 11:29:42 am
      You're probably right. But Robertson is better than Moreno and Jürgen kept picking the latter, til he got injured, so it's not guaranteed he's right.



      Klopp is a big advocate of players getting up to speed for his style and approach
      Robertson and Chamberlain have spoken about it being different under the manager and what he expects

      I'd imagine that was a big part of the reason neither were starting regularly to start with

      Moreno (I'm not his biggest fan by a long stretch) was having his best spell in his time at the club u til his injury so it wasn't easy to drop him either

      srslfc
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      Re: The goalkeeper situation
      Reply #194: Jan 17, 2018 11:33:01 am
      I think pretty much all of us would agree that we've seen enough of Migs so of Karuis is to get the rest of the season to show what he's made of that can only be a good thing.

      Definitely looks like we'll be buying a new keeper in the summer.
      ozi_wozzy
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      Re: The goalkeeper situation
      Reply #195: Jan 17, 2018 12:30:56 pm
      Fs Migs, where's your head at? You're 30 and still can't be guaranteed a start so you're clearly not going to get any better, accept it instead of resorting to public interviews to force the issue. Keep it behind closed doors.

      I guess with the defensive question largely addressed with VVD and Migs' latest comments that are as hapless as his performances on the pitch, focus surely has switched to our next obvious Achilles heel.

      Happily invest some of that Couts cash on a keeper, 30-40 mil even.

      glines
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      Re: The goalkeeper situation
      Reply #196: Jan 17, 2018 12:32:18 pm
      So it raises the question, if we were to receive a bid for Mignolet this January (let's say £15m), would you take it leaving us with Karius and Ward until the Summer when we would reassess?

      I think I probably would. The squad would be thinner but it might give Karius more confidence without Migs looming over his shoulder and Ward might get the odd chance too.

      Hmmmm...
      Kopite78
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      Re: The goalkeeper situation
      Reply #197: Jan 17, 2018 12:32:44 pm
      Fs Migs, where's your head at? You're 30 and still can't be guaranteed a start so you're clearly not going to get any better, accept it instead of resorting to public interviews to force the issue. Keep it behind closed doors.

      I guess with the defensive question largely addressed with VVD and Migs' latest comments that are as hapless as his performances on the pitch, focus surely has switched to our next obvious Achilles heel.

      Happily invest some of that Couts cash on a keeper, 30-40 mil even.

      He's actually 29... even though he said he was 30  :lmao:

      I think of we want Oblak or Allison then far more than 30-40 will be needed for a keeper
      JD
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      Re: The goalkeeper situation
      Reply #198: Jan 17, 2018 12:50:09 pm
      So it raises the question, if we were to receive a bid for Mignolet this January (let's say £15m), would you take it leaving us with Karius and Ward until the Summer when we would reassess?

      I probably wouldn't just in case we did suffer a season ending injury. If we can get £15M for him now we could get £15M for him in the summer.

      If we get someone else in he can go but being left with just 2 keepers for half a season does seem an unnecessary risk.
      srslfc
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      Re: The goalkeeper situation
      Reply #199: Jan 17, 2018 12:58:14 pm
      I probably wouldn't just in case we did suffer a season ending injury. If we can get £15M for him now we could get £15M for him in the summer.

      If we get someone else in he can go but being left with just 2 keepers for half a season does seem an unnecessary risk.

      Agree with this.

      His value won't drop any significant amount before the summer and although I'm done with seeing him in our goal you never know what happens injury wise and if Karius or Ward were to get injured as you say it would leave us short.
      Scotia
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      Re: The goalkeeper situation
      Reply #200: Jan 17, 2018 01:01:31 pm
      I probably wouldn't just in case we did suffer a season ending injury. If we can get £15M for him now we could get £15M for him in the summer.

      If we get someone else in he can go but being left with just 2 keepers for half a season does seem an unnecessary risk.

      Agreed.

      The fella isn’t and never was good enough - lord knows I’ve ripped the pish something rotten - but some of the god awful sh*te he’s getting on Twitter is criminal.

      Critical mass of our fan base is golden but there’s a few fossilised turds out there.
      5timesacharm
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      Re: The goalkeeper situation
      Reply #201: Jan 17, 2018 01:19:41 pm
      But he may well be worse? You don't know. Klopp however sees him everyday in training and will have a better idea
      The fact he hasn't given him a chance speaks volumes to me as I trust his judgement.

      He didn't send him on loan again to give him the opportunity to train here with the first team, the fact he's never been trusted to have a go again I trust Klopps judgement in what he sees

      Ward last season at Huddersfield let in 58 goals
      For context Newcastle and Brightons keepers let in 40 each
      Sheff Wednesday's let in 45

      I wouldn't want us to sign their keepers either

      We have a top class manager and I'd prefer to trust his judgement because as poor as Mignolet and Karius have been it's just as likely in training that ward is worse. If he was so much better then I have no doubt he would have gotten a chance

      Just because he's a top class manager does not make him infallible. He has access to the same stats as are in the public domain and many more aside, it is far more likely that he sees Karius as the least-worst choice, and one that can, should he not perform to the required standard, strengthen any argument there might be for the spending big on a world class Keeper.
      Kopite78
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      Re: The goalkeeper situation
      Reply #202: Jan 17, 2018 01:23:24 pm
      Just because he's a top class manager does not make him infallible. He has access to the same stats as are in the public domain and many more aside, it is far more likely that he sees Karius as the least-worst choice, and one that can, should he not perform to the required standard, strengthen any argument there might be for the spending big on a world class Keeper.

      Where did i say he shouldn't nor think he won't spend on a new keeper?  :confused-smiley-013:
      Or in fact say anything at all opposite of your post?

      In fact I'm not sure what relevance your post has to mine
      « Last Edit: Jan 17, 2018 01:29:45 pm by Kopite78 »
      Mickred
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      Re: The goalkeeper situation
      Reply #203: Jan 17, 2018 01:24:19 pm
      if Karius now gets a run of games it looks like Klopp has seen enough of Migs who will no doubt be off provided that, Karius takes advantage of the situation and starts to build some confidence and improves from that.

      I think we will still be looking for a new keeper anyway.

      YNWA
      heimdall
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      Re: The goalkeeper situation
      Reply #204: Jan 17, 2018 01:38:55 pm
      He's actually 29... even though he said he was 30  :lmao:

      I think of we want Oblak or Allison then far more than 30-40 will be needed for a keeper

      I'd happily pay £100 million for a keeper like De Gea, Neuer, Oblak Allison etc. A great keeper makes a huge difference to a team, every bit as much, if not more than a superstar striker.
      FL Red
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      Re: The goalkeeper situation
      Reply #205: Jan 17, 2018 01:46:16 pm
      This situation will be sorted in the summer, guaranteed...for now though we've got what we've got. To be honest, it likely doesn't matter if it's Karius or Mignolet...we are going to have to outscore teams anyway. Just look at Virgil as your second keeper out there.
      dunlop liddell shankly
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      Re: The goalkeeper situation
      Reply #206: Jan 17, 2018 02:01:52 pm
      Neither Karius or Mignolet are good enough for this club, the fact they've been swapping with each other even since the German arrived last summer proves that neither can hold down the number one shirt.

      Karius was given a go, once he returned from injury, last season and after a run of some embarrassing mistakes he lost his place and didn't start another Premier League game from the 11th December onwards. Mignolet actually did alright when he came back into the side and it was pointed out by Jamie Carragher on numerous occassions that the performances from the Belgian may blind the club into thinking we didn't need a new keeper in the summer. Mignolet then started as number one for the League and Karius for Europe going into this season where both have made errors on a regular basis. Not every error leads to a goal, even for keepers. Errors include flapping at crosses, making the wrong decision with the ball at their feet, rushing out and getting nowhere near it etc etc.

      And now we're back at square one where one keeper has made too many mistakes and forced the manager's hand into making another change. So Karius is back in favour and in his first League outing in over a month, he makes another mistake. Now if he makes more mistakes in the upcoming games against Swansea and Huddersfield (and West Brom, if he's still our Cup keeper) does Klopp have to change it again for the month of February?

      For me, we need to address the situation now before it's too late. The window is open, bring in a world class keeper now - whoever that may be (I'm not gonna name names because I don't know half the people who are being banded around on these boards). Even if that keeper is inelgible for the Champions League, get them in now because they will be available for the League and given the likelihood of mistakes from our keepers, top four is not a guarantee just yet meaning come the summer we might not have Champions League football to offer these keepers, so get a keeper in who you know will do the job to ensure we are in the top four and back in the Champions League next year.

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