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      The remainder of the 2017-18 campaign

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      Robby The Z
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      Re: The remainder of the 2017-18 campaign
      Reply #23: Feb 07, 2018 12:08:34 am
      A major factor not mentioned is staying clear of injuries...this is absolutely pivotal if we have aspirations of finishing higher than 4th and obviously the latter stages of the CL,

      We could probably cope with losing one or two matches but losing key players for any number of weeks could prove very damaging and most probably scupper chances of top 3..

      ...you would have thought bringing in back up in Jan would have alleviated concerns ...alas it was not to be and now we can only hope we don't get bit on the arse...anyhoo enough of the negativity, we are in the driving seat as far as a top 4 finish is concerned and i believe that when we mash the Spuds on Sunday will virtually guarantee that we will .

      ONWARDS & UPWARDS !!


      YNWA

      No question staying healthy and somewhat fresh will be vital. I also forget to mention that every season, in the run-in to either winning the championship or finishing top four (or whatever is being contested) the team that falls short does so because they fail to beat those teams set before them who they really should be defeating. It's as much as test of composure handling pressure as it is actual quality. Here's hoping we pass the test in that department, because it is still set right before us.
      hardcoresoldier
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      Re: The remainder of the 2017-18 campaign
      Reply #24: Feb 07, 2018 12:29:11 am
      A major factor not mentioned is staying clear of injuries...this is absolutely pivotal if we have aspirations of finishing higher than 4th and obviously the latter stages of the CL,

      We could probably cope with losing one or two matches but losing key players for any number of weeks could prove very damaging and most probably scupper chances of top 3..

      ...you would have thought bringing in back up in Jan would have alleviated concerns ...alas it was not to be and now we can only hope we don't get bit on the arse...anyhoo enough of the negativity, we are in the driving seat as far as a top 4 finish is concerned and i believe that when we mash the Spuds on Sunday will virtually guarantee that we will .

      ONWARDS & UPWARDS !!


      YNWA

      Excellent post billy.

      You'll struggle to find someone more optimistic than me but as you say with this depleted Squad, we are three injuries away from a complete collapse.

      This Squad is running on fumes at the moment, the Spurs game proved that.
      heimdall
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      Re: The remainder of the 2017-18 campaign
      Reply #25: Feb 07, 2018 11:04:04 am
      Excellent post billy.

      You'll struggle to find someone more optimistic than me but as you say with this depleted Squad, we are three injuries away from a complete collapse.

      This Squad is running on fumes at the moment, the Spurs game proved that.

      I'm not sure I entirely agree, if anything the Spurs game showed that we need to rest some players, I wouldn't mind a few games maybe playing a more traditional 4-4-2, especially against "weaker" opposition, with Solanke and Ings in attack with Mane, Bobby and Salah on the bench or rotated into the midfield as AM's. Not only would this completely confuse the crap out of opposition managers and give us different tactics to employ but it would give much needed rest to those 3 so as to prevent injuries, burn out etc.
      I think we have the players required in the squad but we would need to tweak the system a bit and rotate.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: The remainder of the 2017-18 campaign
      Reply #26: Feb 07, 2018 03:16:30 pm
      I'm not sure I entirely agree, if anything the Spurs game showed that we need to rest some players, I wouldn't mind a few games maybe playing a more traditional 4-4-2, especially against "weaker" opposition, with Solanke and Ings in attack with Mane, Bobby and Salah on the bench or rotated into the midfield as AM's. Not only would this completely confuse the crap out of opposition managers and give us different tactics to employ but it would give much needed rest to those 3 so as to prevent injuries, burn out etc.
      I think we have the players required in the squad but we would need to tweak the system a bit and rotate.

      I don't disagree about resting some players friend, but if we run out a 4-4-2 with Solanke and Ings as the strikers, the only confusion opposing managers will have will be "Why is he letting us win?"

      Resting is better done one player at a time. Also, looking at the full fixture list, the silver lining of the FA Cup exit is that it puts some air into our schedule. Hopefully there will be more Champions League matches after Porto, but it won't be anything like the congestion we have had the last two months.
      heimdall
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      Re: The remainder of the 2017-18 campaign
      Reply #27: Feb 07, 2018 03:23:25 pm
      I don't disagree about resting some players friend, but if we run out a 4-4-2 with Solanke and Ings as the strikers, the only confusion opposing managers will have will be "Why is he letting us win?"

      Resting is better done one player at a time. Also, looking at the full fixture list, the silver lining of the FA Cup exit is that it puts some air into our schedule. Hopefully there will be more Champions League matches after Porto, but it won't be anything like the congestion we have had the last two months.


      OK maybe not 4-4-2 but some formation which would allow us to not have to play Salah, Bobby and Mane every bloody game and would let us rotate in our other 2 strikers. I think both Ings and Solanke are the type of strikers who would prefer a more trad formation. It's surely worth a go, especially against weaker opposition. The midfield and defence would be as strong as it is now, although a 4-4-2 would obviously require a bit more attack from midfield than we currently see, so the only question is how well the alternative strikers would be.

      Oh and I would probably have 1 if not 2 of the fearsome trio in the midfield, that way we can rest them and also try something a bit new against these stubborn b***ard ultra defensive bottom teams.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: The remainder of the 2017-18 campaign
      Reply #28: Feb 07, 2018 03:28:30 pm
      OK maybe not 4-4-2 but some formation which would allow us to not have to play Salah, Bobby and Mane every bloody game and would let us rotate in our other 2 strikers. I think both Ings and Solanke are the type of strikers who would prefer a more trad formation. It's surely worth a go, especially against weaker opposition. The midfield and defence would be as strong as it is now, although a 4-4-2 would obviously require a bit more attack from midfield than we currently see, so the only question is how well the alternative strikers would be.

      Oh and I would probably have 1 if not 2 of the fearsome trio in the midfield, that way we can rest them and also try something a bit new against these stubborn b***ard ultra defensive bottom teams.

      So in that case I would try something like Solanke and Mane one match, Ings and Bobby the next, Bobby and Salah the next, using the others on the outside of midfield or attacking mid like you mentioned. If we have three matches in 7 days, you could rest each of the front three one time, but not more than once. The matches are too important at this point so I don't think any of them are going to get much rest, but I agree that Jürgen will have to look for those opportunities.

      Of course all of this depends on Solanke and Ings performing better on the park than they have so far.
      billythered
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      Re: The remainder of the 2017-18 campaign
      Reply #29: Feb 07, 2018 04:40:56 pm
      So in that case I would try something like Solanke and Mane one match, Ings and Bobby the next, Bobby and Salah the next, using the others on the outside of midfield or attacking mid like you mentioned. If we have three matches in 7 days, you could rest each of the front three one time, but not more than once. The matches are too important at this point so I don't think any of them are going to get much rest, but I agree that Jürgen will have to look for those opportunities.

      Of course all of this depends on Solanke and Ings performing better on the park than they have so far.




      I get that we need to rest certain individuals and protect them from burnout, had we still been in the FA cup then I'd say we'd struggle with the amount of games we have left and would most probably pick up injuries, that's not to say we wouldn't anyway, but like Heimy says being out of the cup could prove a godsend,
      Having said all that i would imagine that training at Melwood would not be as intense as it would have been earlier in the season, with the squad at the peak of their fitness , training sessions are more for working on systems, set pieces, and inter play,
      So although players playing twice a week is tough and demanding i think most can handle it quite comfortably,
      The problems start if niggles affect said training leaving players in the hands of the meds rather than on the pitches,

      We just need to hope and pray no one gets seriously crocked long term .

      YNWA
      hardcoresoldier
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      Re: The remainder of the 2017-18 campaign
      Reply #30: Feb 07, 2018 04:57:18 pm
      I'm not sure I entirely agree, if anything the Spurs game showed that we need to rest some players, I wouldn't mind a few games maybe playing a more traditional 4-4-2, especially against "weaker" opposition, with Solanke and Ings in attack with Mane, Bobby and Salah on the bench or rotated into the midfield as AM's. Not only would this completely confuse the crap out of opposition managers and give us different tactics to employ but it would give much needed rest to those 3 so as to prevent injuries, burn out etc.
      I think we have the players required in the squad but we would need to tweak the system a bit and rotate.

      My point is that we don't have the squad depth to rotate, as important as it is to the 'gegenpress' system.

      You rest any of the front three and it's a choice between Ings, Solanke and Oxlade. It is a massive drop in skill level.

      You rotate Robertson and you end up with Moreno.

      You rotate van Dijk and you end up with Matip, Klavan or Lovren, seeing as Klopp doesn't feel Gomez is ready to start at centre back just yet.

      Clyne is out so it's Arnold or Gomez.

      Karius or Mignolet, when we have Danny Ward?

      Can, Wijnaldum & Henderson, you rotate with Oxlade (possible rotator for front three), Milner or Lallana (unable to stay fit).

      Having offloaded Sturridge, Markovic and Coutinho we have left ourselves bare and vulnerable should we suffer a couple of injuries. I'd love to see Firmino get a bit more rest but there is nobody of substantial quality to rotate him with.

      Rotation will only work when you are rotating players of equal or at least almost equal quality. We cannot do that.
      heimdall
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      Re: The remainder of the 2017-18 campaign
      Reply #31: Feb 07, 2018 05:01:26 pm
      My point is that we don't have the squad depth to rotate, as important as it is to the 'gegenpress' system.

      You rest any of the front three and it's a choice between Ings, Solanke and Oxlade. It is a massive drop in skill level.

      You rotate Robertson and you end up with Moreno.

      You rotate van Dijk and you end up with Matip, Klavan or Lovren, seeing as Klopp doesn't feel Gomez is ready to start at centre back just yet.

      Clyne is out so it's Arnold or Gomez.

      Karius or Mignolet, when we have Danny Ward?

      Can, Wijnaldum & Henderson, you rotate with Oxlade (possible rotator for front three), Milner or Lallana (unable to stay fit).

      Having offloaded Sturridge, Markovic and Coutinho we have left ourselves bare and vulnerable should we suffer a couple of injuries. I'd love to see Firmino get a bit more rest but there is nobody of substantial quality to rotate him with.

      Rotation will only work when you are rotating players of equal or at least almost equal quality. We cannot do that.

      I hear you but I do think you are being a bit to negative about our squad, as long as don't have 4-5 injuries all at the same time then we should still be ok.
      billythered
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      Re: The remainder of the 2017-18 campaign
      Reply #32: Feb 07, 2018 06:17:04 pm
      I hear you but I do think you are being a bit to negative about our squad, as long as don't have 4-5 injuries all at the same time then we should still be ok.


      This season's post winter transfer window has a familiar feel and look to it, in as we are dangerously fragile going into the latter stages of this campaign, this time last year our season was virtually over having come through a disastrous December & January,
      This season we have last 16 CL and still in with a real shout for bridesmaids at best and 4th,

      Time will obviously tell whether selling our one and only class creator, loaning out a still top striker and further departees will completely scupper our season,
      I get that Klopp only wants those top no1 targets, and i also get that buying for the sake of buying is not his favoured method of recruiting but, the selling and loaning out of top players has weakened our strengths and left us vulnerable at the most pivotal time of the season,

      Surely bringing in one or two in would have given us room to perhaps rest those players dangerously close to burnout, even if they were not of the class required,

      Its a huge gamble to hope that any of our players stay clear of serious injury , we all hope they do of course but, why risk our highest league finish for years and not to mention a real chance of No 6, for the sake of a few million sheckles ?

      YNWA
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: The remainder of the 2017-18 campaign
      Reply #33: Feb 07, 2018 07:09:05 pm
      I'm not sure I entirely agree, if anything the Spurs game showed that we need to rest some players, I wouldn't mind a few games maybe playing a more traditional 4-4-2, especially against "weaker" opposition, with Solanke and Ings in attack with Mane, Bobby and Salah on the bench or rotated into the midfield as AM's. Not only would this completely confuse the crap out of opposition managers and give us different tactics to employ but it would give much needed rest to those 3 so as to prevent injuries, burn out etc.
      I think we have the players required in the squad but we would need to tweak the system a bit and rotate.

      Understand what you are say, even if I don'y necessarily agree with it... You do understand that in this time of the season the hardest game usually come from the Clubs around the relegation zone..?
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: The remainder of the 2017-18 campaign
      Reply #34: Feb 07, 2018 07:11:04 pm
      My point is that we don't have the squad depth to rotate, as important as it is to the 'gegenpress' system.

      You rest any of the front three and it's a choice between Ings, Solanke and Oxlade. It is a massive drop in skill level.

      You rotate Robertson and you end up with Moreno.

      You rotate van Dijk and you end up with Matip, Klavan or Lovren, seeing as Klopp doesn't feel Gomez is ready to start at centre back just yet.

      Clyne is out so it's Arnold or Gomez.

      Karius or Mignolet, when we have Danny Ward?

      Can, Wijnaldum & Henderson, you rotate with Oxlade (possible rotator for front three), Milner or Lallana (unable to stay fit).

      Having offloaded Sturridge, Markovic and Coutinho we have left ourselves bare and vulnerable should we suffer a couple of injuries. I'd love to see Firmino get a bit more rest but there is nobody of substantial quality to rotate him with.

      Rotation will only work when you are rotating players of equal or at least almost equal quality. We cannot do that.

      This ^^^
      heimdall
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      Re: The remainder of the 2017-18 campaign
      Reply #35: Feb 08, 2018 12:46:49 pm
      Understand what you are say, even if I don'y necessarily agree with it... You do understand that in this time of the season the hardest game usually come from the Clubs around the relegation zone..?

      Exactly, our tough games will be against the bus parkers so for these I would play 2 traditional strikers and drop Salah and/or Mane into midfield, just try something new because our current system is crap against the bus parkers and that is mostly because we lack creativity in midfield.
      RobieSlick
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      Re: The remainder of the 2017-18 campaign
      Reply #36: Feb 08, 2018 12:58:34 pm
      I'm not sure I entirely agree, if anything the Spurs game showed that we need to rest some players, I wouldn't mind a few games maybe playing a more traditional 4-4-2, especially against "weaker" opposition, with Solanke and Ings in attack with Mane, Bobby and Salah on the bench or rotated into the midfield as AM's. Not only would this completely confuse the crap out of opposition managers and give us different tactics to employ but it would give much needed rest to those 3 so as to prevent injuries, burn out etc.
      I think we have the players required in the squad but we would need to tweak the system a bit and rotate.

      Agree totally. But Klopp loves playing Bob & Mo.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: The remainder of the 2017-18 campaign
      Reply #37: Feb 08, 2018 12:59:09 pm
      Exactly, our tough games will be against the bus parkers so for these I would play 2 traditional strikers and drop Salah and/or Mane into midfield, just try something new because our current system is crap against the bus parkers and that is mostly because we lack creativity in midfield.

      If we play with two strikers, the strikers are Firmino and Salah, the ones who put the ball into the back of the net.
      heimdall
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      Re: The remainder of the 2017-18 campaign
      Reply #38: Feb 08, 2018 01:03:45 pm
      If we play with two strikers, the strikers are Firmino and Salah, the ones who put the ball into the back of the net.


      So are we completely writing off both Ings and Solanke then? All I'm saying is that we give them a go, we'd still have Salah, Mane and Bobby either on the pitch as AM's or on the bench ready to come on if it doesn't work. Personally I strongly feel that both Solanke and Ings would play with a striking partner rather than leading the line like Bobby does.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: The remainder of the 2017-18 campaign
      Reply #39: Feb 08, 2018 04:27:21 pm
      So are we completely writing off both Ings and Solanke then? All I'm saying is that we give them a go, we'd still have Salah, Mane and Bobby either on the pitch as AM's or on the bench ready to come on if it doesn't work. Personally I strongly feel that both Solanke and Ings would play with a striking partner rather than leading the line like Bobby does.

      agree they are more fit for a 4-4-2, especially Solanke. Not writing them off, but at this point of the season, I don't think we'll use more than one at a time in the starting lineup , and that rarely.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: The remainder of the 2017-18 campaign
      Reply #40: Feb 08, 2018 06:17:19 pm
      12 PL games left and CL games to play. I can imagine we will probably beat Porto, maybe get to CL QF. I'd estimate 16 games left. I think we're fine with our current squad until summer.
      JD
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      Re: The remainder of the 2017-18 campaign
      Reply #41: Feb 11, 2018 10:06:56 pm
      9 points ahead of Arsenal, effectively 10 points with our goal difference. 

      Would be a serious collapse now for us to not finish as a minimum inside the top five.  Would be first two consecutive top five finishes/top four finishes for 9 years.
      PGlynn91
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      Re: The remainder of the 2017-18 campaign
      Reply #42: Feb 11, 2018 10:41:52 pm
      9 points ahead of Arsenal, effectively 10 points with our goal difference. 

      Would be a serious collapse now for us to not finish as a minimum inside the top five.  Would be first two consecutive top five finishes/top four finishes for 9 years.

      Anything but 4th or higher would be a disaster. I think we can get 2nd!
      Harrisimo
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      Re: The remainder of the 2017-18 campaign
      Reply #43: Feb 11, 2018 10:50:21 pm
      Anything but 4th or higher would be a disaster. I think we can get 2nd!

      Although United got beat today they did look good going forward and only poor finishing cost them. On another day they could've scored 3. Sanchez has shook up the attack and they might be hard to overtake.

      We are in a battle for top 4 and it won't be easy. Of the 3 rivals, Chelsea might surprisingly be the weakest. Morata hasn't had the desired effect and they rely on Hazzard and he's a bit off this season, good but not good enough to carry Chelsea.
      Kopite78
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      Re: The remainder of the 2017-18 campaign
      Reply #44: Feb 12, 2018 10:37:41 am
      It's in our own hands to take a second successive champions league finish, which as much as I want shiny pots is so important for our continued development and growth back into a serious contender under Klopp, something we haven't been since Rafas days.

      We're on 54 points currently if you look at the fixtures, even take some of them out

      West ham home
      Newcastle home
      Watford home
      Bournemouth home
      Stoke home
      Brighton home

      Palace away
      West Brom away

      There's 24 points there and there is no reason why we shouldn't win all of those, there really isn't. It's in our hands

      24 onto 54 gives us 78 which would mean champions league football anyway.

      Then there's
      Utd away
      Chelsea away
      Everton away

      As essentially free hits and I think we can win at any of those, Chelsea currently are sh*te, the blues are the blues and utd will park the bus even at the toilet so who knows.

      Now I'm not saying we will win all of the last 11 here 🤣 I'm just saying it's in our hands, we don't have the worst run in at all, and if we play like we did yesterday, professionally clinical.. I think mostly those, certainly in the 8 in the first group won't be able to beat us.

      In our hands
      little-Luis:)
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      Re: The remainder of the 2017-18 campaign
      Reply #45: Feb 13, 2018 12:07:25 pm


      The original graphic that Sky used last night, but it says that Liverpool need 22 points to get top 4.

      7 wins & 1 draw in simple terms. I think it's very doable.


      Some of the home games we have are;

      West Ham
      Newcastle
      Watford
      Bournemouth
      Stoke
      Brighton

      Looking at them 6 alone, and we should be winning those. I know some of them are battling relegation and will put up fights á la Newcastle on Sunday but in theory we should win those 6 games and that is the majority of our battle there.

      At this moment in time, we are not in a position where we have to go to OT and beat United, or have to go to the Bridge and beat Chelsea and get wins in order to get top 4. 2 draws there and any other win, lets say for example away to Everton, and in theory we have top 4 sealed. A draw & loss to either of United or Chelsea along with those 6 wins and any other win should see us get the 76 points and get top 4.

      Worry about ourselves and we have it. Not relying on others to slip up.

      Now of course, those 6 games will probably not all be wins. Our home form is patchy this season. We may struggle to break down teams who will come and play for the draw. Rafa will definitely do that. We are going to rest lads in at least one of the games because of CL football - I would imagine the Newcastle game and maybe an other where Solanke will come in and maybe Ings or Woodburn will get a run on the wing but mapping it out like that makes the task seems somewhat easier to me.

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