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      VAR

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      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #30: Feb 20, 2018 10:09:22 pm
      Quote from HUYTON RED
      No I'm pretty much saying I don't like VAR as the system will take out pure emotional moments like what happened when that goal went in and the celebrations that followed. Most celebrations after VAR decisions are always muted when compared to moments like Garcia's goal.

      I'm aware of that, but I'm still willing to accept it if can be verified. Instead, Mourinho still moans about the goal all these years later, knowing full well the consequences if it wasn't given.

      As it is, there are lots of goals where celebrations and emotions are cut short  after seeing a flag up or a free kick given, which is sometimes the wrong decision. At least with VAR, we'll know that everything is being checked and once the game restarts, we'll know that the decision given was the correct one.
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #31: Feb 20, 2018 11:09:02 pm
      To be honest I rarely get the chance or time to watch local football mate but I know a guy who's a big Glens fan and he says the standard is abysmal.

      The ref's or the Glen's? Actually they're both abysmal! 😁
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #32: Feb 24, 2018 10:51:20 am
      Quote from ORCHARD RED
      You watch Irish League mate? We could be doing with it other here given the standard of refereeing.

      If they haven't the facilities in England beyond the Premiership, what chance Northern Ireland? Heck, Anfield doesn't even have a big screen to show anything. My national league only introduced the vanishing spray last year, so the idea of using any technology at all, is futuristic.

      I don't think it's a necessary that fans in a stadium see an incident being reviewed, but they need to know that an incident is under review. Just seeing VIDEOASSISTANT on a scoreboard would cover it.

      Next year it will be happening after every goal and major incident, to ensure fair play is enforced and goals scored are 100% kosher. Diving will be wiped out, more penalties will be given, more goals will be ruled out for offside, and more "accidental" handballs will be ruled as deliberate. And in 5 years time, the game will be cleaned up and we'll be wondering what all the fuss was about.
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #33: Feb 24, 2018 11:30:40 am


      Next year it will be happening after every goal and major incident, to ensure fair play is enforced and goals scored are 100% kosher. Diving will be wiped out, more penalties will be given, more goals will be ruled out for offside, and more "accidental" handballs will be ruled as deliberate. And in 5 years time, the game will be cleaned up and we'll be wondering what all the fuss was about.
      I really can't see that happening mate, much as I like VAR. That would slow the game far far to much and take the excitement of every goal that is scored.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #34: Feb 24, 2018 11:54:50 am
      Need VAR badly, since this thread is a bit Boolean in nature, add a poll?
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #35: Feb 24, 2018 08:36:41 pm
      Quote from Keith Singleton
      I really can't see that happening mate, much as I like VAR. That would slow the game far far to much and take the excitement of every goal that is scored.

      I said before I recognise that, but that's the way it has to be. You can see it happening, because it will be happening. It already is. As now, the vast majority of goals and decisions on the field will stand. But all it takes is a couple of replays to prove it or reject it. There may be hundreds of millions of cash at stake for the clubs involved, so we need the right decision.

      I've walked away from too many games in too many grounds on too many screens too many times down the years, at club and international level, the victim of a ref error or a cheat, wondering why football lets this  happen. I'm sure you and millions of others have felt the same. Timing is no defence. This puts a stop to all that, once and for all so imo, it can't come soon enough.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #36: Feb 28, 2018 10:21:38 pm
      Apparantly, it was the highlight of a Spurs Cup game. I say apparently as I haven't seen the game. And apparently, all the decisions made by VAR were judged as the correct ones, to overturn wrong decisions made on the pitch. That is what it's there for.

      I just wish we had it when it was our turn to play Spurs. Then we would be in second spot already.
      what-a-hit-son
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #37: Feb 28, 2018 10:25:36 pm
      Apparantly, it was the highlight of a Spurs Cup game. I say apparently as I haven't seen the game. And apparently, all the decisions made by VAR were judged as the correct ones, to overturn wrong decisions made on the pitch. That is what it's there for.

      I just wish we had it when it was our turn to play Spurs. Then we would be in second spot already.

      I went to Anfield for the FA Cup game against West Brom and it absolutely killed it. Nobody knew what was going on and even though we benifitted from its decisions I walked out with more questions than answers.

      Thought it would be for me but not so sure now.
      siavashiva
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #38: Feb 28, 2018 11:46:55 pm
      Don't like it. Doesn't matter if it benefits us or not, I'd down vote it any day. This is not tennis in a relatively small venue where you could actually see and hear the officials. Football games take place in huge arenas and things like VAR just kill the vibe. My two cents.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #39: Mar 01, 2018 12:42:02 am
      Quote from what-a-hit-son
      I went to Anfield for the FA Cup game against West Brom and it absolutely killed it. Nobody knew what was going on and even though we benifitted from its decisions I walked out with more questions than answers.

      Thought it would be for me but not so sure now.

      Everybody knew the game had VAR, and VAR means every major decision is liable to be reviewed. Several were, and wrong calls were overturned. If they were not reviewed, teams would have profited from wrong decisions given and cheating.

      The only important VAR question is, was the right decision made? When the answer is yes, that is the only answer that matters. When we have VAR, we have fair play and justice on a football pitch.
      Roddenberry
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #40: Mar 01, 2018 02:32:54 am
      Everybody knew the game had VAR, and VAR means every major decision is liable to be reviewed. Several were, and wrong calls were overturned. If they were not reviewed, teams would have profited from wrong decisions given and cheating.

      The only important VAR question is, was the right decision made? When the answer is yes, that is the only answer that matters. When we have VAR, we have fair play and justice on a football pitch.

      I don't care about the correct decisions, I expect referees to make mistakes and I accept them as part of the game. The fact is the fans moan about correct decisions now and blame refs when the team ain't good enough. Should be taking timekeeping out of refs hands and revisit VAR when it's less intrusive.


      heimdall
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #41: Mar 01, 2018 09:30:03 am
      Until all grounds have big screens the simple solution is to broadcast the communication between the on field Ref and the VAR Ref, same as they do in cricket appeals, that way the crowd are kept in the loop and everyone should be happy.
      chats
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #42: Mar 01, 2018 09:38:17 am
      Need your head testing if you think a game like last night's is the way you want football to go.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #43: Mar 01, 2018 10:56:16 am
      Quote from Roddenberry
      I don't care about the correct decisions, I expect referees to make mistakes and I accept them as part of the game. The fact is the fans moan about correct decisions now and blame refs when the team ain't good enough.

      That's not good enough. Our sport should not be a safe haven for cheats and con artists to thrive. There is too much at stake for mistakes to be just accepted.

      At least at Wembley, they display the words VAR Review on the scoreboards. That's much more progress in communication about a review, than a referee's earpiece.

      VAR is there to ensure justice is served on a football pitch. Every decision overturned, is simply what the original decision should have been in the first place. We need this and should have had it years ago.
      Roddenberry
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #44: Mar 01, 2018 11:37:25 am
      That's not good enough. Our sport should not be a safe haven for cheats and con artists to thrive. There is too much at stake for mistakes to be just accepted.

      At least at Wembley, they display the words VAR Review on the scoreboards. That's much more progress in communication about a review, than a referee's earpiece.

      VAR is there to ensure justice is served on a football pitch. Every decision overturned, is simply what the original decision should have been in the first place. We need this and should have had it years ago.


      Still don't care and mistakes are what creates a lot of the joy of football for me. I don't give a sh*t about justice on the pitch, no matter how much hyperbole you spout, especially when, at present, it's so do disruptive and dealing with a miniscule number of issues. I'd prefer things that are able to be implemented now, that will have a real impact. Timekeeping should be priority, we've had games that have barely seen forty-five minutes of game time. It's easily solved and removes the far more prevelant cheating of time wasting. Referees having access to game footage afterwards, being able to review their own performance, issues in the game and hand out and rescind cards as they see fit. I'd then, after 24 hours have passed, make the refs available to the press, but VAR, nah, football is sanitized enough these days, without this.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #45: Mar 01, 2018 12:15:07 pm
      Well you're going to have to care, because this is the future of officiating, so I suggest you better get used to it.

      This is not about sanitising the game, this is about applying the laws of the game, as they should be, on the spot. While most decisions will stand, every major decision made is subject to review. You cannot dive, you cannot foul, you cannot cheat and expect to get away with it anymore.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #46: Mar 01, 2018 05:10:01 pm
      Those saying the disallowed goal should have stood are wrong. The defender was held back by Lamela's arm and then Lamela kicked it in the net a few seconds later. BBC and Pundits full of it.
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #47: Mar 02, 2018 09:32:43 am

      Nothing knew then.  ;D
      RedWilly
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #48: Mar 03, 2018 06:14:38 am
      Well you're going to have to care, because this is the future of officiating, so I suggest you better get used to it.

      Are you capable of having a discussion without coming across as a complete w**ker?

      Making sound as if it’s a life or death decision. Some people are attracted to football because of the pace of the game. Other people have opinions just as valid as your own. Get used to it.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #49: Mar 03, 2018 08:25:25 pm
      I am used to it. I've no problems with other opinions. It's when people say they're happy when mistakes are made that I can't agree with. Mistakes are not good enough in this, or any other sport. If a player makes mistakes, he gets dropped. If a ref makes mistakes, nothing can be done. Until now.

      Since my last post, La Liga has announced it's coming in next season. Quite a jump from a league that doesn't even have goalline technology atm.

      More importantly, the IFAB have now cleared the way for it to be used at the WC. So the winner will win it by fair play at all times.
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #50: Mar 17, 2018 12:51:25 pm
      Swansea v Spurs.

      Yet another incident where it wasn't clear cut decision based on how the ruling of VAR are given. Correct call but still not happy that they can't implement a proper set of rules.. Definitely takes the buzz out of scoring though knowing you have to wait for confirmation.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #51: Mar 17, 2018 05:15:39 pm
      And how is the "buzz" different, to scoring a goal, then seeing the ref give a free out or a lino's flag? Same thing: No goal.

      If it's the correct call, then job done. In the league fixture they played, Spurs scored a goal that should have been ruled out for offside, but there was no VAR so nothing could be done. Today there was and the right decision was reached. You can't con a camera and that's that.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #52: Mar 17, 2018 07:50:40 pm
      And how is the "buzz" different, to scoring a goal, then seeing the ref give a free out or a lino's flag? Same thing: No goal.

      If it's the correct call, then job done. In the league fixture they played, Spurs scored a goal that should have been ruled out for offside, but there was no VAR so nothing could be done. Today there was and the right decision was reached. You can't con a camera and that's that.
      Agreed, some cry babies butthurt because the game was paused.
      RedWilly
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #53: Mar 17, 2018 08:42:10 pm
      And how is the "buzz" different, to scoring a goal, then seeing the ref give a free out or a lino's flag? Same thing: No goal.

      If it's the correct call, then job done. In the league fixture they played, Spurs scored a goal that should have been ruled out for offside, but there was no VAR so nothing could be done. Today there was and the right decision was reached. You can't con a camera and that's that.

      I agree with VAR but it would be good if they could figure out a way to get a quicker decision and communicate.

      Get VAR working in a manner where it keeps the pace of the game and everyone’s a winner. I’m sure they will though, it’s early days for it yet.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #54: Mar 17, 2018 08:52:59 pm
      It can be done quicker, but it isn't atm. Replays can be shown within 10-15 seconds of a goal. But the host broadcaster won't show them until they're finished showing all the usual celebrations first. Which takes anything up to a minute.

      Apparantly the wonky lines were used again by the same broadcaster covering this game, as happened last time. I believe it's all a conspiracy in order to keep human error to referee matches. There's no way a qualified ref with VAR, is using anything except one straight line at the last defender, to determine whether a goal is offside or not.
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #55: Mar 17, 2018 08:56:47 pm
      It's often said that we should look to Rugby and tries scored when it comes to video refereeing.

      That's a poor reference considering how stop start and tedious rugby is as a game. Last week I saw a scrum in the France v England match take 5 minutes to carry out. It was pathetic and it made me realise that video refereeing probably speeds up that sport more than anything!

      Anyhow, rugby was created by some public school n*b picking up a football and ruining the game. It's the last sport that football should be looking towards!
      Roddenberry
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #56: Mar 17, 2018 10:08:59 pm
      I still don't thing it's a necessity, lots of things that should have happened first. Timekeeping should be out of a referees hands and refs should be allowed to review their own performance and rescind or dish out cards. after rewatching the game. Mistakes are some of the best bits in games, whether by refs, players or managers, VAR has proven to be subjective at points, but we're taking away a part of the game I love.
      « Last Edit: Mar 17, 2018 10:19:15 pm by Roddenberry »
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #57: Mar 17, 2018 10:17:38 pm
      I still don't thing it's a necessity, lots of things that should have happened first. Timekeeping should be out of a referees hands and refs should be allowed to review their own performance and rescind or dish out cards. after rewatching the game. Mistakes are some of the best bits in games, wether by refs, players or managers, VAR has proven to be subjective at points, but we're taking away a part of the game I love.

      I don't agree with the notion that mistakes are some of the best bits of the game but I now agree that this isn't suited for football despite me thinking the opposite beforehand. If you're playing by a draconian rule book like in rugby then that's fine but this is football and I think people forget just how flexible and interpretive a game it is in comparison to almost any other sport out there.

      Also does it threaten to standardise refereeing across the continent? Part of the intrigue surrounding football is that a fair piece of play in Britain may be seen as foul play in the southern continent or vice versa. My worry is that one particular VAR decision in a high profile match in front of hundreds of millions threatens to judge all situations as similar in games after that.
      Roddenberry
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #58: Mar 17, 2018 10:24:21 pm
      I don't agree with the notion that mistakes are some of the best bits of the game but I now agree that this isn't suited for football despite me thinking the opposite beforehand. If you're playing by a draconian rule book like in rugby then that's fine but this is football and I think people forget just how flexible and interpretive a game it is. Does it threaten to standardise refereeing across the continent? Part of the intrigue surrounding football is that a fair piece of play in Britain may be seen as a foul play in the southern continent or vice versa. My worry is that one particular VAR decision in a high profile match in front of hundreds of millions threatens to judge all situations as similar in games after that.

      It's, more precisely, the moaning fams I love. One high profile ref error, the defeat is all his fault, despite hitting the post 10 times and one of your players getting himself sent off. Whilst we on this point though, I've always wanted to say refs haven't ruined games by sending players off early, the player sent off did that. I always meant to say something as I detest that bit of lazy, stupid fan logic.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #59: Mar 17, 2018 11:21:58 pm
      Players, managers, and fans complain about the inconsistency of refereeing decisions. If the rules are draconian, then the rules should be changed, not VAR.

      All VAR is, is a replay of an incident and shows the ref operating it, what to do if there is an issue with it. It's then up to him to advise the ref on the pitch, to implement the rules as they stand at the time, to the incident. And in doing so, provide the consistency that many have been screaming for, for decades.

      It doesn't do emotions, it has no regard for big clubs or small clubs, big crowds or six men and a dog attendances, it just presents the facts. Communication and speed of decisions can be improved, but it's still doing the job it's supposed to do.

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