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      VAR

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      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #240: Jul 11, 2018 07:53:48 am
      Where are you going with the "ghost goal" nonsense? That's not a VAR issue. Goalline Technology would rule on it inside 2 seconds flat. I was at our last game without it against QPR, in JC's last game, and we were denied a goal after 3 minutes because the ref didn't see the ball had clearly crossed the line, by some distance. I said at the time, "thank God that's the last time we have to put up with this crap". And it was. GLT is uniform today, and it helps make everyone's lives easier.

      Football is a business. And in any business, there's no margin for error, and serious mistakes are not tolerated. So they shouldn't be tolerated in football either. And when it isn't, you won't have to be waving your arms, and swearing your head off in away ends wondering why we've been done again, because you'll know the final decision given was the correct one.

      The hand of God is not a famous moment. It's talked about, because the decision given was wrong. It's wrong that such outrageous decisions were allowed for so long. They don't at this World Cup, and the game is much the better for it.

      We're finally getting new tv camera angles in for home games next season. Hopefully we're getting a screen too, as all domestic cup games at home will have VAR in operation. Our next game with it may be as soon as September, so we need a screen to let fans in the stadium know if/when a major decision has to be reviewed. The review could be the difference between another trophy in the cabinet, or try again the following year.

      Quote from DanMann
      More VAR failures tonight.

      Can anyone doubt the bias in football when Hazard gets blatantly and badly fouled, yet the ref who is watching it claims he dived, and the 5 officials in the VAR room stay schtum..

      From what I saw there was:

      No penalty claims.
      No red card incidents.
      No mistaken identities.
      No offside calls.

      Therefore VAR had nothing to do.
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #241: Jul 11, 2018 08:04:55 am
      Where are you going with the "ghost goal" nonsense? That's not a VAR issue. Goalline Technology would rule on it inside 2 seconds flat. I was at our last game without it against QPR, in JC's last game, and we were denied a goal after 3 minutes because the ref didn't see the ball had clearly crossed the line, by some distance. I said at the time, "thank God that's the last time we have to put up with this crap". And it was. GLT is uniform today, and it helps make everyone's lives easier.

      Football is a business. And in any business, there's no margin for error, and serious mistakes are not tolerated. So they shouldn't be tolerated in football either. And when it isn't, you won't have to be waving your arms, and swearing your head off in away ends wondering why we've been done again, because you'll know the final decision given was the correct one.

      The hand of God is not a famous moment. It's talked about, because the decision given was wrong. It's wrong that such outrageous decisions were allowed for so long. They don't at this World Cup, and the game is much the better for it.

      We're finally getting new tv camera angles in for home games next season. Hopefully we're getting a screen too, as all domestic cup games at home will have VAR in operation. Our next game with it may be as soon as September, so we need a screen to let fans in the stadium know if/when a major decision has to be reviewed. The review could be the difference between another trophy in the cabinet, or try again the following year.

      From what I saw there was:

      No penalty claims.
      No red card incidents.
      No mistaken identities.
      No offside calls.

      Therefore VAR had nothing to do.

      Oh my god.

      Couldn't think of anything worse than having a screen in anfield.

      Footballs f**king dead.
      Kopite78
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #242: Jul 11, 2018 08:44:55 am
      I agree with HTM

      It's f**king sh*te


      But on the Chelsea goal, had it been in then regardless of the goal line technology it would have been a penalty and probably red card (at the time) for Cech
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #243: Jul 11, 2018 09:04:14 am
      I agree with HTM

      It's f**king sh*te


      But on the Chelsea goal, had it been in then regardless of the goal line technology it would have been a penalty and probably red card (at the time) for Cech

      Exactly, the game would have been stopped and viewed which would have taken the sting out of the greatest atmosphere I've ever witnessed.

      VAR affects the match goer more than it does the sit at home fan more too in my opinion.

      People watching from home can see the replays so they probably have the attitude of how can the ref not see or give that (or the opposite) but when you're at the match you want the decision made by the ref there and then. That's what adds to the excitement.

      You don't want the play to continue for thirty seconds until the ball goes out of play for the referee to review it. It's just not the same at all. It will kill the passion and the atmosphere.

      Mark my words this will happen one day too. A referee will look at an incident inside the box but not give the penalty (which should have been given), the other team break and score straight away. The referee reviews the original incident and awards the penalty and therefore rules out the goal that's just been scored.  It will be a circus.

      There have been a few occasions even with the use of VAR that debates have continued amongst pundits etc whether it was even the right call.

      I just think the whole things a joke and it's for weird perfectionists with OCD.



      Magillionare
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #244: Jul 11, 2018 11:17:01 am
      It's the way the game is going.

      Referees are at a standard so low they need all the help they can get. If it means things change, so be it. It's been a tremendous success at the world cup, no doubt about it.

      Some luddites on here may not like it, but well... Tough.
      Kopite78
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #245: Jul 11, 2018 11:29:11 am
      Think the split will mainly be the ones who go the game and those who have a different experience watching on tv
      Magillionare
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #246: Jul 11, 2018 12:42:31 pm
      Think the split will mainly be the ones who go the game and those who have a different experience watching on tv

      They should have screens at games that show the decisions just like at rugby. Refs should have mics and we should hear the conversations they have with VAR, again just like rugby.

      A lot we can learn from VAR with an oval ball
      Kopite78
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #247: Jul 11, 2018 01:02:09 pm
      They should have screens at games that show the decisions just like at rugby. Refs should have mics and we should hear the conversations they have with VAR, again just like rugby.

      A lot we can learn from VAR with an oval ball

      Oh god I hope not. Rugby us the last thing in the world id want to mimic. Awful waste of time

      I was at the West Brom gane and it was an absolute farce in the ground.
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #248: Jul 11, 2018 02:20:26 pm
      Oh god I hope not. Rugby us the last thing in the world id want to mimic. Awful waste of time

      I was at the West Brom gane and it was an absolute farce in the ground.

      Couldn't agree more. What's a farce that match was.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #249: Jul 11, 2018 05:01:27 pm
      Quote from HamannsTheMan
      Mark my words this will happen one day too. A referee will look at an incident inside the box but not give the penalty (which should have been given), the other team break and score straight away. The referee reviews the original incident and awards the penalty and therefore rules out the goal that's just been scored.  It will be a circus.

      There have been a few occasions even with the use of VAR that debates have continued amongst pundits etc whether it was even the right call.

      I just think the whole things a joke and it's for perfectionists.

      It's not a joke, it's on the way. And if we play the first round of the League Cup at home (or at a EPL ground), it will be in use. So if I'm going, I'm fully aware that any major decision made is subject to review. Just as it has been at the World Cup.

      People have outlined the "mark my words  scenario" above. In 61 games at the World Cup, it has not happened. But even if it does, so what. We go back, we check the original incident and if it was wrong, we correct it on the spot, not do nothing and say how unjust it was, 30+ years later. And whoever wins the World Cup will win it by fair means.

      When the WBA ko time was confirmed, the club informed fans that VAR would be used. And because it was, we got 2 injustices overturned, that we wouldn't have without it. So the system worked the way it's supposed to work. The following week, we didn't have VAR against Spurs, there was a 5 minute delay over a penalty decision, accusations made left right and centre, and a very bad atmosphere as a result.

      It took this club over 100 years just to install a basic scoreboard. When it was finally put in, I don't think it hurt anyone. Getting a screen in, is to let fans know when we have to use VAR, not leaving them in the dark. Even before it comes in, most clubs already have a screen in their ground. It's not exactly the splitting of the atom.
      Magillionare
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #250: Jul 12, 2018 10:24:58 am
      Oh god I hope not. Rugby us the last thing in the world id want to mimic. Awful waste of time

      I was at the West Brom gane and it was an absolute farce in the ground.

      Very much disagree, tremendous sport rugby.

      It's going to be slow at the start, you need to give things a go and let it develop and improve.

      Would you rather a referee making a game changing error and not have it addressed for the sake of 2 minutes to check it. I understand it may take longer at this stage of VAR but my point about rugby was it was that way too at the start, but now it only takes 1 minute with a few short sharp clips from about 5 different angles, easy peasy.
      Magillionare
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #251: Jul 12, 2018 10:26:59 am


      Mark my words this will happen one day too. A referee will look at an incident inside the box but not give the penalty (which should have been given), the other team break and score straight away. The referee reviews the original incident and awards the penalty and therefore rules out the goal that's just been scored.  It will be a circus.



      So...

      The right call was made in the end?
      Kopite78
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #252: Jul 12, 2018 06:08:12 pm
      Very much disagree, tremendous sport rugby.



      I get that everyone is different and if someone likes something then sound but not for me personally ruggers
      An absolute boring monumental waste of time, I'd rather stick pins in my eyes.
      If it was a choice of watching a game of rugby or sitting in a dark room for the same amount of time then the dark room wins hands down
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #253: Jul 12, 2018 06:26:02 pm
      I get that everyone is different and if someone likes something then sound but not for me personally ruggers
      An absolute boring monumental waste of time, I'd rather stick pins in my eyes.
      If it was a choice of watching a game of rugby or sitting in a dark room for the same amount of time then the dark room wins hands down

      Rugby? It's the ultimate Victorian throwback for the upper classes - showing off Imperial macho strength while servicing your repressed homosexuality at the same time.

      Ok I jest! But broadly, I agree. I've given rugby a watch over many years and given it many chances but these days I'm absolutely convinced that it's not worth it. Brilliant atmospheres and all that but a very 2D sport.
      Magillionare
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #254: Jul 12, 2018 09:38:31 pm
      I get that everyone is different and if someone likes something then sound but not for me personally ruggers
      An absolute boring monumental waste of time, I'd rather stick pins in my eyes.
      If it was a choice of watching a game of rugby or sitting in a dark room for the same amount of time then the dark room wins hands down

      Fair enough mate. :D
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #255: Jul 12, 2018 09:42:22 pm
      Love both rugby codes myself
      HScRed1
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #256: Jul 12, 2018 09:52:03 pm

      Same here although I do prefer the greater details of Union over League.

      Test Cricket is something I don’t get at all.
      5 days and still getting a draw! Americans may have a point.



      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #257: Jul 12, 2018 10:21:14 pm
      Same here although I do prefer the greater details of Union over League.

      Test Cricket is something I don’t get at all.
      5 days and still getting a draw! Americans may have a point.





      Love cricket as well, all forms of the game, great day out and an excuse for a beer or two
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #258: Jul 17, 2018 10:59:53 pm
      Technically both major decisions in the final were 100% correct. Although the first one is currently beyond the remit of VAR, the angle behind Griezmann shows a foul committed, so a free kick was given.

      The penalty appeal shows a movement by the hand towards the ball. We've seen those calls given without VAR, (e.g. Roma got a similiar penalty against Klavan a few weeks ago) It's one of those calls  that if it's for you, you think it's obvious, and if it's against you, you think it's outrageous. But the ref now gets more than one look at an incident so they can make an informed decision, and most will give a handball in that instance.

      I'm sure we will have the ref and room communication broadcast in the next tournament, during a review. It won't change the final decision, but it will change the nature of the debate and help  put the conspiracy theories to bed. There's no reason why it can't be done right now, so I'm sure when the will is there, it will be done.

      As I expected, it has been widely welcomed by the fans and press.
      We've been spoiled by it's use and it's accuracy during the tournament, and many of the sceptics have been won over, during the tournament. Now it's back to the bad old days of one look refereeing for the coming season, that allows teams such as Roma to win penalties such as the above, with no opportunity to reconsider them or put them right. But one thing we know is that VAR is on the way to becoming the norm, and it'll be back putting wrong decisions right again, soon enough.
      Magillionare
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #259: Jul 18, 2018 11:28:23 am
      1st week of premier league action there will be a game altering decision, screwing a team out of points right from game 1 that VAR would have prevented.

      100% nailed on guarantee.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #260: Jul 18, 2018 11:33:39 am
      1st week of premier league action there will be a game altering decision, screwing a team out of points right from game 1 that VAR would have prevented.

      100% nailed on guarantee.
      Hopefully it is United complaining. That way the FA will have VAR in by Christmas.
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #261: Jul 18, 2018 12:55:34 pm
      Hopefully it is United complaining. That way the FA will have VAR in by Christmas.

      Is that Newcastle United your reffering too  :f_whistle:
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #262: Jul 19, 2018 07:37:00 am
      Quote from Magillionare
      1st week of premier league action there will be a game altering decision, screwing a team out of points right from game 1 that VAR would have prevented.

      100% nailed on guarantee.

      It's a fairly safe bet tbh. FIFA research says there's a major decision wrong, every 3 games. That means there will be at least 3 such wrong calls made on the first weekend, that we can't do anything about. That equates to a minimum of 114 such injustices over the season. With so much at stake up and down the league, that level of incompetence at this level, is outrageous, when it doesn't have to happen.

      But that is what was voted through last April.
      SM
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #263: Jul 19, 2018 07:47:58 am
      F**k all this VAR nonsense......just bang in 4 goals a game and they can have their shitty 1 bad decision we will still have the 3 points!
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #264: Aug 02, 2018 02:34:18 pm
      Sorry, not quite VAR, but how f**king ridiculous is this? lmao!

      https://twitter.com/eLDeeTheDon/status/1024811407093760002
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #265: Aug 02, 2018 08:04:52 pm

      Was watching that last night on sky, should of seen the camera view for the pens at the end, totally ridiculous.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #266: Aug 08, 2018 10:52:15 pm
      Last season:

      Penalties given for handball in EPL: 6 from 380 games
      Penalties given for handball in WC: 5 from 64 games

      What cheaters and conmen can get away with in the EPL, they couldn't at the WC, with Big Brother in the stands watching their antics. But what British refs consider handball and other refs consider as handball, are obviously different things.

      So expect outrage, chaos, and blame over wrong refereeing decisions to resume from this weekend.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #267: Aug 21, 2018 07:25:57 pm
      Day 2 EPL, VAR Quiz:

      Cardiff v Newcastle:
      Incident:
      Serious Foul Play by Newcastle player.
      Decision: No Decision Taken.
      VAR Review? Decision Overturned. Free kick, Straight Red Card, and standard 3 league game suspension for offender.

      Cardiff v Newcastle:
      Incident:
      Penalty claim by Newcastle.
      Decision: Penalty awarded.
      VAR Review? Decision Stands.

      Leicester v Wolves:
      Incident:
      Serious Foul Play by Leicester player.
      Decision: Free kick, Straight Red Card, and standard 3 league game suspension for offender.
      VAR Review? Decision Stands.

      Brighton v mancs:
      Incident: Penalty claim by Brighton.
      Decision: Penalty awarded.
      VAR Review? Decision Stands.

      Brighton v mancs:
      Incident: Penalty claim by mancs.
      Decision: Penalty awarded.
      VAR Review? Decision overturned.
      Simulation by cheating manc, standard yellow card for cheating manc, and free kick to opposition.

      v Palace (a):
      Incident:
      Penalty claim by us.
      Decision: Penalty awarded to us and scored.
      VAR Review? Decision Stands.

      v Palace (a):
      Incident:
      Serious Foul Play committed against us.
      Decision: Free kick, Straight Red Card, and standard 3 league game suspension for offender.
      VAR Review? Decision Stands.

      To Be Continued...
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #268: Aug 28, 2018 07:24:07 pm
      Day 3 EPL, VAR Quiz:

      Wolves v City:
      Incident:
      Goal scored by Wolves.
      Decision: Goal given.
      VAR Review? Decision Overturned. Free kick to opposition.

      mancs v Spurs:
      Incident: Penalty claim by Spurs.
      Decision: No action taken.
      VAR Review? Decision Overturned, Penalty awarded against cheating manc.

      Newcastle v Chelsea:
      Incident:
      Penalty claim by Chelsea.
      Decision: Penalty awarded.
      VAR Review? Decision Stands.

      Newcastle v Chelsea:
      Incident:
      Goal scored by Newcastle.
      Decision: Goal given.
      VAR Review? Decision Overturned, Free kick to opposition for use of elbow.

      Southampton v Leicester:
      Incident: Penalty claim by Southampton.
      Decision: Free kick to opposition for simulation, Second Yellow Card, Red Card, and automatic 1 game ban for offender.
      VAR Review? Decision stands.

      v Brighton (h):
      Incident:
      Penalty claim by us.
      Decision: No action taken.
      VAR Review? Decision Overturned, Penalty awarded against cheating opponent for handball.

      v Brighton (h):
      Incident:
      Penalty claim by us.
      Decision: Free kick to opposition.
      VAR Review? Decision Overturned, Penalty awarded against cheating opponent for foul on Firmino's ankle.

      In August, at least 8 major decisions in the league should have been corrected with VAR.

      TBC...
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #269: Aug 28, 2018 07:25:21 pm
      VAR resumes in the League Cup this week, with 8 teams lucky enough to know that the ref has more than one look at an incident if necessary, which could keep them in it or kick them out.

      Embarrassed by the success of it at the World Cup, and embarrassed again by it's successful implementation in their major national leagues, UEFA are reviewing their rash decision not to bring it in for this year's European Cup, and now considering using it from the quarter finals of this year's competition on.

      In that case, last year's final was the last final where you can get away with stuff you shouldn't get away with. A year too late for us maybe, but better late than never.

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