VAR

Yeah the amount of money is a factor now. Billions are resting on the correct decision made. That wasn't the case 100 years ago.

We're into the 5th year of this, and the 11th year of GLT. Whinging about how the game was refereed 100 years ago isn't going to suddenly change things.

No it hasn't. Apart from the first week, it's been a fairly quiet start to the season by VAR, with interventions relatively rare.

The goal was given because the ref, linesman, and VAR all agreed that it wasn't offside. Simple as that really.

You're blaming VAR for the referee making his own judgement. When the ref saw the forward trod on the defenders foot, he thought it was a foul. Yet you blame VAR for it.

It's only a couple of years since the lack of VAR in Scotland was allowing players to score goals in that fixture after clearly handling the ball. Thankfully those days are now gone.

The forum is about giving opinions without fear. That's what I do. Apart from the mad manc, I respect everyone here. After 12 years here, I believe I'm mature enough to engage with anyone in a respectful manner. I don't frighten anyone, threaten anyone, belittle anyone, swear at anyone, defame their character, or question who they support.

To survive on football forums, you never give up. This club is all about not giving up. You say what you need to say and you defend it when challenged. This thread was set up after the West Brom game in the cup, and I made it fairly clear from the outset what I thought of the use of VAR. That has not and will not change, no matter what.

With the greatest of respect you do not engage, engaging would include listening, and evidently you don't ...You are a certifiable Sophist, and a committed Eristic..... meaning you treat debate as a sport and not a philosophical pursuit.

No I want you to tell me in your words how it isn’t offside and how they didn’t get it wrong.

You’re very quick so in your words please, explain that goal and why it wasn’t offside.

Clear And Obvious Error alert: I never said I agreed with them, I simply told you what happened. If you want more words about it, you need to check the audio that was released, because there's nothing more to explain about it from me.

Because I did check out the audio, I found out what happened in the Wolves game on Day 1. The whole point of sending the ref to his monitor is to show him something he hasn't seen. The ref on the pitch sees the incident and instantly says it's a collision that he doesn't give penalties for, so sending him to the monitor would not have made any difference. So why was his VAR held responsible?

With the greatest of respect you do not engage, engaging would include listening, and evidently you don't ...You are a certifiable Sophist, and a committed Eristic..... meaning you treat debate as a sport and not a philosophical pursuit.

You engage on a forum by debating, not listening. You're not here to change minds. You say what you believe to be right. If it's accepted that's fine. If it's not, you defend your position as required. What you don't do is insult people, especially when you don't know them. Plenty have though because they think they know stuff, and they've faced the consequences for it. The latest being Jermaine Jenas at the weekend.

Meanwhile, credit where it's due. Nice to see the VAR regime led by Webb, disallow goals against the mancs in their last 3 league games, including a manc based VAR in one of them. Also, good to see the manc based ref park his fake subconscious bias aside, when having to do his job and send a City man off at the weekend.

And while we're on the subject of congratulating manc based referees, a big shoutout to the manc based ref who parked his own non existent bias against us aside at the weekend, and awarded Salah a penalty for the first time in almost 2 years. Showing once again that regardless of where they're from, they can't have any subconscious bias or be under the influence of big clubs at all, when going about their job.

cu*ts.

This is the standard in the Premier League...

cu*ts.

This is the standard in the Premier League...

Can’t wait to hear that silly kunt across the waters comments about VAR in your match. Will he finally admit VAR a joke? I think not.

VAR hit the biggest low since it was introduced tonite with such bad/inept decisions have gone to a new level.  No danger you lads robbed.

Go on, talk your way out of this one 

What an absolute disgrace - fuming 

VAR is a complete cluster F**k judged on what happened yesterday to confirm it.
Scrap the whole thing and go back to how  we used to be.
Yes there were mistakes in the old system, but there seems to be more injustices in VAR so I for one say get rid.
Just my opinion for what it is worth, which in the  grand scheme of things is not a lot.

VAR is a complete cluster F**k judged on what happened yesterday to confirm it.
Scrap the whole thing and go back to how  we used to be.
Yes there were mistakes in the old system, but there seems to be more injustices in VAR so I for one say get rid.
Just my opinion for what it is worth, which in the  grand scheme of things is not a lot.

I totally agree and would take the old system in a heart beat. I’ve just posted this in the corruption thread.


 Corrupt a very strong word and in the heat of the moment can see why many of you say yes. However, it’s far from corrupt, this is the best league in the world and we haven’t reached the Saudi standards just yet.

It’s just complete fuckwits at the end of VAR and some seriously bad calls by the officials/ref on the day. There’s no way  PGMOL make a statement straight after the game if such dealings went on. Chances are some may lose their jobs over this and quite rightly.

The VAR system is so flawed due to so many subjective decisions they leave themselves wide open. Error after error, week in week out. This ( so far ) is the worse mistake they’ve made. You lads undeniably robbed off a result.

I totally agree and would take the old system in a heart beat. I’ve just posted this in the corruption thread.


 Corrupt a very strong word and in the heat of the moment can see why many of you say yes. However, it’s far from corrupt, this is the best league in the world and we haven’t reached the Saudi standards just yet.

It’s just complete fuckwits at the end of VAR and some seriously bad calls by the officials/ref on the day. There’s no way  PGMOL make a statement straight after the game if such dealings went on. Chances are some may lose their jobs over this and quite rightly.

The VAR system is so flawed due to so many subjective decisions they leave themselves wide open. Error after error, week in week out. This ( so far ) is the worse mistake they’ve made. You lads undeniably robbed off a result.

Dunno how many times this has been said mate but VAR isn’t the problem, the PGMOL is, VAR works perfectly well across a number of other sports and although some decisions can be controversial all in all it’s fair and just and acceptable, so we have to question why doesn’t it work as well in the EPL…..only one thing prevents it doing so is……..the totally inept PGMOL….take them out of anything to do with VAR, install ex professional players, managers and ex referees to sit in with independent VAR officials and I think we’ll have a better run system, it’s not f***in rocket science is it ffs !!!


YNWA

scrap it regardless of yesterday its killing  the euphoria of celebrating a goal it just what football should be

Dunno how many times this has been said mate but VAR isn’t the problem, the PGMOL is, VAR works perfectly well across a number of other sports and although some decisions can be controversial all in all it’s fair and just and acceptable, so we have to question why doesn’t it work as well in the EPL…..only one thing prevents it doing so is……..the totally inept PGMOL….take them out of anything to do with VAR, install ex professional players, managers and ex referees to sit in with independent VAR officials and I think we’ll have a better run system, it’s not f***in rocket science is it ffs !!!


YNWA

Agreed VAR not the problem  but if I had to choose one or the other I’d go back to the old way. It’s fantastic for goal line technology and from that prospective happy to keep it. With all the so called technology all we talk about is the incompetence of the officials running it week in week out, that’s isn’t good for the game.

In the old days when the ref/lineman’s made a bad offside call as fans we use to say it swings in roundabouts and generally evens itself out during the season.

What the answer is long term I’m not sure. However, something has to happen as it can’t go on.

Dunno how many times this has been said mate but VAR isn’t the problem, the PGMOL is, VAR works perfectly well across a number of other sports and although some decisions can be controversial all in all it’s fair and just and acceptable, so we have to question why doesn’t it work as well in the EPL…..only one thing prevents it doing so is……..the totally inept PGMOL….take them out of anything to do with VAR, install ex professional players, managers and ex referees to sit in with independent VAR officials and I think we’ll have a better run system, it’s not f***in rocket science is it ffs !!!


YNWA

IF, and only if VAR was used exclusively to confirm metrics, ie. measurable offside, a foul inside or outside the box then it would have some merit. The problems with it stack up when other people make subjective judgements. People make mistakes, we always have and we always will...it's part of the human condition, no amount of training can prevent it...reduce it, yes, but eliminate it, no.
Decision making gets less accurate as more people are tasked with making them...this paradox exists due to cascade bias, namely, if a person knows the previous persons view, they are likely to agree with it. This subtle, often subconscious pattern gets worse the more people are in the chain, with a pressure of not wanting to be the odd one out......(Sidney Lumet's masterpiece "12 Angry Men" addresses this perfectly)
You say install ex-players, managers etc. This would make it even harder, as those individuals would have played/managed certain clubs and will have built up a lot of bias and not all subconscious...How could you not? Imagine a situation where, I don't know...Steven Gerrard was tasked to make a VAR judgement...even if the teams didn't include Liverpool...say it was Chelsea, it would be almost impossible not to have a bias.
Finally, You say VAR works well in other sports. This is an accepted fallacy. Post incident technology works very well when confined to measurable
parameters. Cameras are fixed on cricket creases, microphones are set to register the slightest brush of the bat etc. Tennis, again the ball is in or out. Rugby is often touted as an example of VAR working well. This is exaggerated, TMO's can and do make mistakes. The laws of rugby are so numerous and complex, therefore they are under review constantly. We now have a "sin bin" where a yellow carded player is assessed by a VAR committee whether to upgrade to red. My neighbour, just back from the WC in France says the conversations/confussion about decision making is as vocal in rugby as football....it's just not as covered in the press.
We live in an age where technology is deemed the answer for everything...it isn't...Football should be one referee, two linesmen/women...And just accept they get it wrong sometimes.

VAR Stockley park do they get pissed whilst officiating because for the life of me it seem that way.   I can imagine them on a more serious note like someone mentioned with their doughnuts and coffee. 

They are there for assistance. How come the referee doesn't ask for their assistance?   I mean a ref thinks am not sure about this decision hey can you check it.   How come they assist when they want.  In other words if they are ready to assist and not distracted by the taste of their doughnuts or whatever.

Where is he.....

Where is he.....

He’s not done his weekly visit yet Higgy.   

Ain’t no way even he can defend that yesterday, even if he tries he deserves a ban.

Ain’t no way even he can defend that yesterday, even if he tries he deserves a ban.

Oh he will find a way to twist things as the pr!ck normally does.    our post will be copied & pasted 

I can only look at yesterday and come to one conclusion, that game was bent , there is no way those officials should be near a football game ever again , that has to go down as one of the darkest days in officiating I think I’ve ever seen , I fckin hate var for what it’s took out of the game , but var wasn’t the problem yesterday , it was those stinking rotten useless officials , yesterday left a dirty stain on the game .

Dunno how many times this has been said mate but VAR isn’t the problem, the PGMOL is, VAR works perfectly well across a number of other sports and although some decisions can be controversial all in all it’s fair and just and acceptable, so we have to question why doesn’t it work as well in the EPL…..only one thing prevents it doing so is……..the totally inept PGMOL….take them out of anything to do with VAR, install ex professional players, managers and ex referees to sit in with independent VAR officials and I think we’ll have a better run system, it’s not f***in rocket science is it ffs !!!


YNWA

It works across other sports because other sports have their laws set in stone as to what is and isn't legal, while still giving some wiggle room for the on-field decision. And it's all available to hear and see to those in the stadium and watching at home. It's much harder to be a cheat when everybody can see and hear what you're doing.

I can really only comment on cricket as it's the only other sport I watch that has the assistance of a video official. But the third umpire checks every ball for a no-ball, like VAR is supposed to do with offsides. And if the bowlers foot is a whisker over the line, it's a no-ball. It's set in stone. You can't get an LBW wicket if it pitches outside leg. It's set in stone. You can't get an LBW wicket if it hits the batsman outside the off stump. It's set in stone. But if it's a tight decision, they have the wiggle room for "umpire's call". If it's just clipping the stumps and the umpire says nah it's not out then it's not out because they allow on-field decisions.

None of this F***ing hand ball bollocks where no one knows the rules, none of these subjective tackles, none of these is he or isn't he interferring with play. But football won't put these things in stone because it's much easier to give the decision they want when everything is subject and dependant on how the official(s) on the day interpret the incident.

We need the refs miking up and make the VAR conversations audible to all, because the officials can’t be trusted

Also, I am F***ing SICK of hearing this whole 'Once the games continued they can't bring it back' bullshit...

Who remembers the day a Man Utd game literally ended, the full time whistle was blown, and VAR decided the start the game back up to give United a penalty? Yeah because I F***ing do! So they better stop with that bullshit excuse!

Also, I am F***ing SICK of hearing this whole 'Once the games continued they can't bring it back' bullshit...

Who remembers the day a Man Utd game literally ended, the full time whistle was blown, and VAR decided the start the game back up to give United a penalty? Yeah because I F***ing do! So they better stop with that bullshit excuse!

Think that was in the days pre var but I vaguely remember something about the game your talking about

Think that was in the days pre var but I vaguely remember something about the game your talking about

Nah it was VAR who told them to restart the game and award the penalty, the VAR official was Simon Hooper.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/12082485/manchester-united-penalty-drama-why-bruno-fernandes-goal-after-final-whistle-stood#:~:text=Why%20was%20Fernandes%20allowed%20to%20take%20the%20penalty%3F&text=Simply%2C%20because%20the%20full%2Dtime,full%2Dtime%20whistle%20that%20followed.

Nah it was VAR who told them to restart the game and award the penalty, the VAR official was Simon Hooper.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/12082485/manchester-united-penalty-drama-why-bruno-fernandes-goal-after-final-whistle-stood#:~:text=Why%20was%20Fernandes%20allowed%20to%20take%20the%20penalty%3F&text=Simply%2C%20because%20the%20full%2Dtime,full%2Dtime%20whistle%20that%20followed.

Cheers thought it was further back than that just goes to show how corrupt they all are really