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      Manchester United 2-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion

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      Harrisimo
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      Re: Manchester United 2-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #625: Mar 11, 2018 07:34:24 pm
      Var is not foolproof as the final decision will be made by a ref. Pawson may well of been given the benefit and the decision might well have been.." stays with on field Ref". Even with cameras from 3/4 different angles and slow mo sometimes it is still not a cast iron penalty.

      We might get the decisions and we will have them go against us but all the petty prejudice will still be a element of it.

      Pawson gave Everton a debatable penalty and would've heard some abuse as he was coming off. I new, as others did, that unless it was a completely obvious penalty, he wasn't giving us anything. Even with the high raised boot of Valencia, which was clearly dangerous play, he was not going to send him off. VAR might have helped but these things are very rarely open and shut.
      fields of anny rd
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      Re: Manchester United 2-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #626: Mar 11, 2018 07:35:56 pm
      It's coming. It's not in the cups this season for no reason, so it's on the way to a ground near you soon. To weed out the cheats and the conmen, and sorting out the real referees from the incompetents. Cleaning the crap out of our sport.

      When we had it this year, we got our penalty appeal accepted and an offside effort disallowed. Without it yesterday, we had 3 legitimate penalty calls turned down. The common pitch referee in both: Pawson. Another incompetent numpty.

      VAR doesn't recognise big games from ordinary games, big teams over small teams, the difference between 50m quid players and freebies, and is not influenced by home crowds. It is a replay of an incident, allowing the video ref to make the right call based on an informed decision, instead of the guess and hope system refs currently use.

      We should have had at least one peno late on yesterday. With VAR, it would have been a slam dunk job and we could have got out of there with a point and a great comeback. The consequences of the wrong decision made may be the difference between finishing top 4 and not, it's more likely to separate 2nd from 3rd. We need VAR asap, so we get the decisions we're supposed to get, and wrong decisions like that, are never allowed to happen again.

      I hear you mate, but the stories I've heard is that premier league clubs are unconvinced and the majority will vote to keep the status quo for now.

      La liga and many top league across Europe are to implement it but the PL remains unconvinced.

      Sorry to piss on your chips man but it's one for the medium term rather than the foreseeable in England.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: Manchester United 2-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #627: Mar 11, 2018 08:36:54 pm
      My understanding is it was brought into the cup, as a dry run for next season. Since then, the IFAB have authorised it's use, so the FA will recommend that the clubs vote for it on the day of the vote, and the clubs will do just that.

      Personally, I think it's the referees and officials who should be voting for it, not the clubs. This is a refereeing tool to help them as needed, to reach the right decision. So it should be their call and theirs alone. On the ground, the vast majority of them want it, so that they don't have to take stick on the pitch, or held solely responsible for the outcome after a game.
      tezmac
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      Re: Manchester United 2-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #628: Mar 11, 2018 08:49:06 pm
      What hurts is they were sh*t and they beat us 2-0
      Livershrew
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      Re: Manchester United 2-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #629: Mar 11, 2018 09:46:07 pm
      What hurts is they were sh*t and they beat us 2-0

      how were they sh*t? thats how they play. dont get me wrong, they never impress me, and i think we are great, yet here we are, mid march 5 points behind them and barely able to lay a glove on them twice this season.
      lreland
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      Re: Manchester United 2-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #630: Mar 11, 2018 10:08:42 pm
      We never seem play well against them any other top 6 teams in league we seem play our good attacking football, we really slow and not any races in first half even when play at home we seem go sh*t not play normal attacking football
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Manchester United 2-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #631: Mar 11, 2018 10:12:29 pm
      So the jigsaw is, according to your last few sentences, miles off and not " a few pieces away".

      What?
      lreland
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      Re: Manchester United 2-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #632: Mar 11, 2018 10:27:57 pm
      Hope cu*ts get knock out champion league on Tuesday
      GERNS
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      Re: Manchester United 2-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #633: Mar 11, 2018 11:02:19 pm
      Hope cu*ts get knock out champion league on Tuesday
      There’s every chance that could happen. They were lucky it to be 4 down from the first leg. A score draw would be enough to f**k them off and Seville showed they are well capable of cutting through them.
      Don’t think they’ll park the bus like they did against us.
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Manchester United 2-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #634: Mar 12, 2018 04:18:52 am
      Hope cu*ts get knock out champion league on Tuesday

      Is right.

      Especially seeing as our resident Manc said he can’t see them struggling against them, back when we dropped points in the group against them.
      jimbo1962
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      Re: Manchester United 2-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #635: Mar 12, 2018 08:09:09 am
      We never seem play well against them any other top 6 teams in league we seem play our good attacking football, we really slow and not any races in first half even when play at home we seem go sh*t not play normal attacking football


      seems theyve become our bogey team.....except there is no German for "bogey team"
      Ebieahi
      • Forum Ronnie Moran
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      Re: Manchester United 2-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #636: Mar 12, 2018 09:58:07 am
      Poor day at the office i guess. We were basically out foxed by Jose in the first half with him playing long balls to beat our high press. Only problem is that we didnt defend those situations well at all else it would probably have ended a draw again.
      We definitely played the more attacking football and if we had a bit more luck, then VVD scores his header and the ref gives us at least one penalty.
      I dont think its the end of the world and perhaps the team needed this loss as another wake up call to eliminate complacency...coz considering this was the "biggest" fixture, the way we played in the first half was way too slow.

      On to the next one and i expect a positive reaction and some desire to win.
      hardcoresoldier
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      Re: Manchester United 2-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #637: Mar 12, 2018 10:33:55 am
      We can blame the referee. We can blame the lack of VAR. We can blame whatever we want.

      The fact of the matter is that we lost to Manchester United. As painful as that is it is the truth of the matter.

      Mourinho did what he always does, he employed a specific game plan to counter the strengths of his opponent.


      He rightly identified Salah as our main attacking threat and nullified him for the entire game. The onus was then on us to bypass Salah and utilise the focus placed on him and expose the centre of the field, something we failed to do, that is our fault.

      Any manager who sees Lovren in the starting eleven will instantly target him as a weakness and attack it. That is what he did and we failed to deal with it. Lovren will never be good enough to play for Liverpool, ever. Many have said we should have got van Dijk to track him but Lovren doesn't have the game intelligence to constantly change field position and maintain his positional awareness, he has proven this many many times during his time here. Lukaku (who i actually think isn't that good myself) was the pimp and Lovren was his bi*ch.

      Alexander Arnold was not on his top form but i don't blame him for the defeat, he is still young and doesn't have the benefit of the game experience that Lovren  has. Yes he was targeted but the fact that Lovren was playing as the right sided centre back was a big part of that problem. I feel that van Dijk should have started as the right sided centre back to protect Arnold as Robertson doesn't need protection. Again though, wherever you move Lovren to, Mourinho would target that space as a weakness to be exploited and rightly so.

      The problem we have is that we do not have 2 centre backs of sufficient quality to deal with the rigours and challenges of playing Premier League football. Virgil van Dijk has been a revelation but he can't do the work of 2 centre backs, nobody is that good. Personally i would have gone with Joe Gomez instead of Lovren. To have Arnold and Lovren on the same side of the defensive unit was a big mistake in my eyes, a mistake that effectively cost us the game.

      Another mistake i feel was the inclusion of Can in centre midfield and Milner on the left. Henderson was an absolute must for me, especially in a game where the midfield battle was so crucial. Matic and McTominay bossed the middle and at no time were they pressurised by Can or Milner. The holes in the centre of midfield in the first half were gargantuan, Can effectively playing as a centre back for most of the first half. Matic became the pimp, Can became his bi*ch. Mourinho selected a midfield made of steel, we selected a midfield made of paper mache.

      Once United had got the 2 goals it was job done as far as he was concerned, in came the low block (hence the 68% possession stats) and an invite to break them down, a tactic Mourinho has employed against us many many times (as Chelsea and United manager). A tactic that is frustrating but ultimately effective.

      As much as i hate Mourinho that doesn't mean that i don't respect him as a manager. He saw weaknesses and he exploited them perfectly with a ruthless desire. As excellent as our progress has been under Klopp it is games like this that still show us we are 4-5 players short of getting to the top level. A centre back, a goalkeeper and a completely new midfield.

      With all the midfielders we have purchased in the last five years i would never have thought i'd be advocating to rebuild an entire midfield.

      Well, it's onto Watford next and let's get back on track. Still much to do but still progressing. This Summer will determine where we go from here. 
      heimdall
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      Re: Manchester United 2-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #638: Mar 12, 2018 11:30:37 am
      We can blame the referee. We can blame the lack of VAR. We can blame whatever we want.

      The fact of the matter is that we lost to Manchester United. As painful as that is it is the truth of the matter.

      Mourinho did what he always does, he employed a specific game plan to counter the strengths of his opponent.


      He rightly identified Salah as our main attacking threat and nullified him for the entire game. The onus was then on us to bypass Salah and utilise the focus placed on him and expose the centre of the field, something we failed to do, that is our fault.

      Any manager who sees Lovren in the starting eleven will instantly target him as a weakness and attack it. That is what he did and we failed to deal with it. Lovren will never be good enough to play for Liverpool, ever. Many have said we should have got van Dijk to track him but Lovren doesn't have the game intelligence to constantly change field position and maintain his positional awareness, he has proven this many many times during his time here. Lukaku (who i actually think isn't that good myself) was the pimp and Lovren was his bi*ch.

      Alexander Arnold was not on his top form but i don't blame him for the defeat, he is still young and doesn't have the benefit of the game experience that Lovren  has. Yes he was targeted but the fact that Lovren was playing as the right sided centre back was a big part of that problem. I feel that van Dijk should have started as the right sided centre back to protect Arnold as Robertson doesn't need protection. Again though, wherever you move Lovren to, Mourinho would target that space as a weakness to be exploited and rightly so.

      The problem we have is that we do not have 2 centre backs of sufficient quality to deal with the rigours and challenges of playing Premier League football. Virgil van Dijk has been a revelation but he can't do the work of 2 centre backs, nobody is that good. Personally i would have gone with Joe Gomez instead of Lovren. To have Arnold and Lovren on the same side of the defensive unit was a big mistake in my eyes, a mistake that effectively cost us the game.

      Another mistake i feel was the inclusion of Can in centre midfield and Milner on the left. Henderson was an absolute must for me, especially in a game where the midfield battle was so crucial. Matic and McTominay bossed the middle and at no time were they pressurised by Can or Milner. The holes in the centre of midfield in the first half were gargantuan, Can effectively playing as a centre back for most of the first half. Matic became the pimp, Can became his bi*ch. Mourinho selected a midfield made of steel, we selected a midfield made of paper mache.

      Once United had got the 2 goals it was job done as far as he was concerned, in came the low block (hence the 68% possession stats) and an invite to break them down, a tactic Mourinho has employed against us many many times (as Chelsea and United manager). A tactic that is frustrating but ultimately effective.

      As much as i hate Mourinho that doesn't mean that i don't respect him as a manager. He saw weaknesses and he exploited them perfectly with a ruthless desire. As excellent as our progress has been under Klopp it is games like this that still show us we are 4-5 players short of getting to the top level. A centre back, a goalkeeper and a completely new midfield.

      With all the midfielders we have purchased in the last five years i would never have thought i'd be advocating to rebuild an entire midfield.

      Well, it's onto Watford next and let's get back on track. Still much to do but still progressing. This Summer will determine where we go from here. 

      Good post, I totally agree that we need a better CB than Lovren, but he had a bad game on top of being a limited CB, he has actually been fairly good for us recently so I understood Klopp picking him. Gomez, whilst being the future, is not ready yet and might have struggled even more than Lovren did, lets remember that Lukaku and Rashford are very good attackers and Lukaku is excellent at using his strength at winning balls and feeding team mates, the kind of thing that Benteke should have been good at but wasn't.
      I agree about the midfield needing more quality and I also think we need to be smarter in attack, we have 3 fabulous attackers but they need to be a bit more clever regarding dragging defenders out of posiiton etc but this would also be helped by having a better more creative midfield.

      Anyway that's the Manure game out of the way, we hardly ever win at their place so its not exactly a disaster, but we need to bounce back and beat Watford then Crystal Palace, which we should be more than capable of doing.
      hardcoresoldier
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      Re: Manchester United 2-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #639: Mar 12, 2018 11:44:12 am
      Good post, I totally agree that we need a better CB than Lovren, but he had a bad game on top of being a limited CB, he has actually been fairly good for us recently so I understood Klopp picking him. Gomez, whilst being the future, is not ready yet and might have struggled even more than Lovren did, lets remember that Lukaku and Rashford are very good attackers and Lukaku is excellent at using his strength at winning balls and feeding team mates, the kind of thing that Benteke should have been good at but wasn't.
      I agree about the midfield needing more quality and I also think we need to be smarter in attack, we have 3 fabulous attackers but they need to be a bit more clever regarding dragging defenders out of posiiton etc but this would also be helped by having a better more creative midfield.

      Anyway that's the Manure game out of the way, we hardly ever win at their place so its not exactly a disaster, but we need to bounce back and beat Watford then Crystal Palace, which we should be more than capable of doing.

      I don't think our front three could be any smarter if i'm honest. The onus is on our midfield to pull opposition players out of the low block to create the spaces for our front three, unfortunately it is they who are not smart enough, a sad but true fact.
      Tadders
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      Re: Manchester United 2-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #640: Mar 12, 2018 11:58:06 am
      I rememeber John Terry at anfield single handedly heading every single long ball\cross we played into their half all game. Lukaku is a very average striker and not anywhere near in the league of Carroll\Crouch\Drogba in the air, and yet Lovren made him look like a superstar.

      Mourinho played long ball, we couldn't defend it.
      heimdall
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      Re: Manchester United 2-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #641: Mar 12, 2018 12:40:59 pm
      I rememeber John Terry at anfield single handedly heading every single long ball\cross we played into their half all game. Lukaku is a very average striker and not anywhere near in the league of Carroll\Crouch\Drogba in the air, and yet Lovren made him look like a superstar.

      Mourinho played long ball, we couldn't defend it.

      I agree that not many players are in the same class as Carroll but I don't really mean that as a compliment! Lukaku is a very good player, strong and quick and with a damned good shot on him too, I'm a bit baffled by all the people on here who talk sh*t about him, but I guess its because he went from the Bitters to Manure.
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: Manchester United 2-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #642: Mar 12, 2018 12:43:43 pm
      This was the first game where we really missed Coutinho. There was no one in midfield to play that killer through ball.
      « Last Edit: Mar 12, 2018 03:22:16 pm by ORCHARD RED »
      hardcoresoldier
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      Re: Manchester United 2-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #643: Mar 12, 2018 01:13:23 pm
      This was the first game whet we really missed Coutinho. There was no one in midfield to play that killer through ball.

      Very true. When any opponent sets up with the low block it is very hard to break down, even harder to break down a low block implemented by Mourinho, he is a master at it.
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: Manchester United 2-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #644: Mar 12, 2018 04:06:46 pm
      Is right.

      Especially seeing as our resident Manc said he can’t see them struggling against them, back when we dropped points in the group against them.

      Who me!!  ;D
      AussieRed
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      Re: Manchester United 2-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #645: Mar 12, 2018 11:57:08 pm
      Bunch of cu*ts they are.

      Was worried all week leading up to the game about Rashford.

      To think he wouldn't have started if that useless C**t Pogba didn't get injured in the last minute of their last training session.

      Game could have been so different if he was a sub, don't think he would have had the same impact.
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Manchester United 2-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #646: Mar 13, 2018 04:17:15 am

      Yeah but I didn’t want to dig up that post just yet...didn’t want to tempt fate :laugh:
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: Manchester United 2-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #647: Mar 13, 2018 08:16:41 am
      Bunch of cu*ts they are.

      Was worried all week leading up to the game about Rashford.

      To think he wouldn't have started if that useless C**t Pogba didn't get injured in the last minute of their last training session.

      Game could have been so different if he was a sub, don't think he would have had the same impact.

      I still love you mother f**ker.  xxxxx:action-smiley-065:
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: Manchester United 2-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #648: Mar 13, 2018 08:18:13 am
      Yeah but I didn’t want to dig up that post just yet...didn’t want to tempt fate :laugh:

      It's good to have at least one manc on your site otherwise you'd all be agreeing with each other apart from the Klopp thread.  ;D
      Scottbot
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      Re: Manchester United 2-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #649: Mar 13, 2018 08:19:52 am
      A lot of posters bemoaning our inability to break them down and create more chances but the problem surely is our inability to keep a clean sheet? Therein lies the biggest challenge for the manager. You can't score 3-4 goals every game but if we could see out a 0-0 every once in a while in games as big as Sunday we would be in great shape. I'd like to see us become a team tat can win games 1-0 from time to time, for all the positives Jürgen doesn't quite seem able to get this into the DNA of this team.

      With regards to Lovren I can understand why he was picked, he has looked a better foil for VVD than Matip in recent weeks and tbf he has absolutely owned Lukaku in recent times when he was in an Everton shirt (in fact I can remember he absolutely bullied the lad in one game last season).

      It's a damaging loss because it brings Chelsea right back into the mix and top 4 is by no means secured (we play them at the Bridge on the penultimate game of the season) and we've still got the derby away to come. Chelsea do have to play Spurs though so a draw or Spurs win would be favourable in that game.

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