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      LFC Reds Poll

      Q. LFC Man of the Match v Watford?

      Loris Karius
      2 (1.7%)
      Andy Robertson
      4 (3.4%)
      Virgil van Dijk
      0 (0%)
      Joel Matip
      0 (0%)
      Joe Gomez
      0 (0%)
      Jordan Henderson
      1 (0.8%)
      Emre Can
      0 (0%)
      Georginio Wijnaldum
      0 (0%)
      Roberto Firmino
      1 (0.8%)
      Sadio Mane
      7 (5.9%)
      Mohammed Salah
      104 (87.4%)
      James Milner
      0 (0%)
      Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
      0 (0%)
      Danny Ings
      0 (0%)

      Total Members Voted: 119

      Voting closed: Mar 21, 2018 07:19:06 pm

      Liverpool 5-0 Watford: In game and Post Match discussion

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      Dadorious
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      Re: Liverpool 5-0 Watford: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #240: Mar 18, 2018 07:45:17 pm
      Nothing much to say apart from the mo salah show. What a signing this lad has been. Everything he touches just turns into goals. KDB will probably win player of the season because of city's freak form but mo deserves it, he has been the leagues best player this season, head and shoulders above anyone else.

      I thought Watford were dire in truth. Thought their tactics were all wrong and half of their players didn't even want to be there today. That said, I'm taking nothing away from us. We can only beat whats infront us and it was a rout. We battered them 5-0 without really getting out of second gear.

      As usual I always try and look for any weakness or any area in which we can perhaps improve on. This doesn't mean I'm not thrilled with the win, of course I am, but there is always room for improvement no matter how good you are.

      Defensively I felt we were in complete control today. We were solid. But I do think the right back position is a concern now. Trent has been exposed a few times against top opposition and his inexperience has shown. Gomez today made a couple of little errors in there today and I don't think he's very comfortable there.

      One moment sticks in my mind where Watford switched the play with a long diagonal ball and Gomez judgment was all wrong. The ball went over his head straight to the Watford winger and had he been half decent he may have turned that into a decent chance. It was very similar to city's first goal at anfield where he misjudged the ball to Sane who then went onto score. As it happened I think Gomez recovered pretty well in this incident but there were still a couple of moments that I felt a little uncomfortable with and it was lucky we were playing against dross.

      My second criticism comes to our centre mids and in particular Jordan Henderson today. I thought he was abysmal, especially in the first half. I lost count how many times he gave the ball away and some of them were just beyond comical.  I don't like him, I don't rate him, and moving forward we need to upgrade. During a match he will try or even make one or two decent passes and some of our fans just seem to excuse his weaknesses because of this. For example, he tried a through ball in the first half to salah. In my opinion it was actually a very poor ball. It was definitely the right idea, but he misjudged the weight of the pass, and it wasn't that difficult to do. But it got a big round of applause from the fans. I applaud the idea and maybe that's why some people clapped, but the execution of the pass was dreadful in my opinion and I expect him to make that pass.

      It isn't just Henderson though. The middle of the park is a big problem for us. It's ok when we play against sh*te like Watford because our attack will just drill them. But we definitely need a couple of top centre mids. The ones we have just aren't good enough for top level. Naby is a start but we need somebody to else to come in and partner him. Break the bank because this should be our priority in my opinion.

      But look, we were great today, and we're making big strides under klopp but at present the right back position and the centre mids concern me a little.

      Find it weird how anybody in the forum can give motm to anyone but mo today but I notice Robbo has a few votes. It's pleasing that he's becoming a big kop favourite because he really has been exceptional and he deserves all the plaudits. It's so refreshing to see a decent left back at the club after we've gone a good decade or so without one.

      I hate to compare any of our players to blueshite ones but he reminds me so much of an old school Baines, round the time he was competing with Ashley Cole for the England spot. Hes up and down that flank, he can come inside and play pass and move football, or he can keep to the byline and whip a ball in. More importantly, he's solid and his reading of the game is superb. I hope he continues going strength to strength and stays at the club for a very long time. Keep it up andy lad.

      Very good performance today red men.



      Was going to come in and post my views on the two areas of concern for me in the lead up to City and you've nailed both.

      That midfield 3 should never be seen on the same pitch again, complete shambles when Can went of and Hendo moved into the #6.

      lfc across the water
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      Re: Liverpool 5-0 Watford: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #241: Mar 18, 2018 08:01:44 pm
      Quote from Ribapuru
      His value has to be in the region of 300m now. He is the best in the world. Better than Messi, Ronaldo, Suarez... because he is 25 and those other 3 are getting old! Nobody is near him in value. Barcelona can't afford him! they will need to sell to balance the books over Coutinho! as for RM! right now they aint anything special! sitting 4th in la liga behind valencia.. 15 points behind Barca?  :lmao:  Barcelona blew their Neymar pay day on an over rated Coutinho  :D Coutinho is a good player, but it is surprising Barcelona wanted him so badly when he is not and will not ever anywhere near the best in the world. Coutinho would make our sub bench right now. People think Coutinho is adaptable but he really isn't.

      142m  :lmao: he may have good shots from distance but and good passing but as stated, too weak...

      It's only last week since we were told we missed him against the mancs. I guess it will happen after every bad result. In January, some were saying that Klopp needed to go because he didn't sign a replacement.

      Real are a few points off the top, as are we in our league. It's nothing to laugh about, and it's not an indication of things to come at either club over the coming years.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Liverpool 5-0 Watford: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #242: Mar 18, 2018 11:52:42 pm
      Obviously the MOTM is Salah. He is playing unbelievable football.He Is certainly in the ballon d' or conversation and certainly the PL Player of the Year.

      But, i voted for Firmino because Salahs performance is overshadowing his goal. That should be the goal of the year. He flicked it off the back heel, at speed,2 feet in the air and backwards. WHAT? It was Insane. It wasnt a lucky goal. He intentionally made that shot.

      Voted Salah MOTM, but agree Bobby's finish was sublime.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Liverpool 5-0 Watford: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #243: Mar 18, 2018 11:54:53 pm
      Got a decision to make in the man of the match poll, here.

      Hmm..

      LOL. Does anyone keep track or know if this is the highest percentage for a single player in the MOTM voting?

      I agree Sadio, Bobby and Robbo had good games, but for me, voting for someone other than Mo for yesterday is out-thinking one's self.  :)
      lester76
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      Re: Liverpool 5-0 Watford: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #244: Mar 19, 2018 12:18:34 am
      Anyone have any stats on his conversion rate from the start of the season to now.
      I was very aware for the first few months of the season that he needed a fair few chances to score whereas now it seems like every opportunity he gets, he scores!
      Anything me have any stats?
      king kenny
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      Re: Liverpool 5-0 Watford: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #245: Mar 19, 2018 12:40:53 am
      With a huge tie against City it was important to get the Utd blipp out of the system and we did that in absolute style. 
      AZPatriot
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      Re: Liverpool 5-0 Watford: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #246: Mar 19, 2018 12:44:12 am
      Was going to come in and post my views on the two areas of concern for me in the lead up to City and you've nailed both.

      That midfield 3 should never be seen on the same pitch again, complete shambles when Can went of and Hendo moved into the #6.



      Don't know which match you were watching but Henderson never moved to the 6...the started there with Gini and Can in front of him.
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: Liverpool 5-0 Watford: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #247: Mar 19, 2018 07:23:03 am
      One thing I love about Firmino is his willingness to adapt to those around him. He can create for Salah, drop back and defend, pass clean, assist whatever. Plus, it seems like he doesnt want to play for any other club but Liverpool. For 2 years we heard Suarez wa leaving, We heard for 2 years Coutinho wanted out...great players but i have a hard time liking a player who doesn't want to play for my club. Firmino seems to love playing at Anfield. You can see it in his play.
      hardcoresoldier
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      Re: Liverpool 5-0 Watford: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #248: Mar 19, 2018 09:21:47 am
      WOW!!!
      redkop63
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      Re: Liverpool 5-0 Watford: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #249: Mar 19, 2018 10:35:15 am
      Bud, I have voted for Salah as motm on so many occassions and I can;t remember how many times already. And I have watched the game a few times and if it had not been  Mane making those crosses/passes Salah may have to do all the work by himself. Both playing for themselves in the game aginst Utd. He looked a very different player from the one against Utd with so much improvement and for that I voted him. But Salah is not far behind either.
      redkop63
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      Re: Liverpool 5-0 Watford: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #250: Mar 19, 2018 10:40:04 am
      One thing I love about Firmino is his willingness to adapt to those around him. He can create for Salah, drop back and defend, pass clean, assist whatever. Plus, it seems like he doesnt want to play for any other club but Liverpool. For 2 years we heard Suarez wa leaving, We heard for 2 years Coutinho wanted out...great players but i have a hard time liking a player who doesn't want to play for my club. Firmino seems to love playing at Anfield. You can see it in his play.

      Well said. He is a workhorse with talent and with the quality players alongside him, he can only get better and better. He never moan or threatened to leave the club or for a bigger wage but keeps on improving and continue to contribute 100% on matchday.

      I have wanted him to leave before but I can see in the last year or so, he has improved by leaps and bounds. Getting tougher physically and knowing his way around the box.
      skamp
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      Re: Live: Liverpool V Watford
      Reply #251: Mar 19, 2018 11:05:35 am
      Surprised no Ox or Lallana!!

      Strong line up, let's win 5-0 and have Salah score 5 :)
      Close!!
      Dadorious
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      Re: Liverpool 5-0 Watford: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #252: Mar 19, 2018 12:35:53 pm
      Don't know which match you were watching but Henderson never moved to the 6...the started there with Gini and Can in front of him.

      No he's role became more central of the 3 when Emre went of as Milner and Gini were either side of him.
      AZPatriot
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      Re: Liverpool 5-0 Watford: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #253: Mar 19, 2018 02:46:05 pm
      No he's role became more central of the 3 when Emre went of as Milner and Gini were either side of him.

      If you say so...watched the part of the match before emre went out 3 times now...Hendo was behind emre and gini...I saw it from kickoff the commentators talked about it going as far to say the exact same thing. "With Henderson back in the side he takes the deeper role with Emre Can and Gini Winajaldum the more advanced positions in front of".

      That was the commentary and that is what I see on my DVR so we'll agree to disagree.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Liverpool 5-0 Watford: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #254: Mar 19, 2018 03:35:10 pm
      If you say so...watched the part of the match before emre went out 3 times now...Hendo was behind emre and gini...I saw it from kickoff the commentators talked about it going as far to say the exact same thing. "With Henderson back in the side he takes the deeper role with Emre Can and Gini Winajaldum the more advanced positions in front of".

      That was the commentary and that is what I see on my DVR so we'll agree to disagree.


      Yeah, no doubt Hendo played the deeper role of the midfielders, at times, he was in between our CB's!
      HScRed1
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      Re: Liverpool 5-0 Watford: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #255: Mar 19, 2018 03:50:36 pm
      Yeah, no doubt Hendo played the deeper role of the midfielders, at times, he was in between our CB's!

      That is a particular bug bear of mine, he does not need to do that esp when the two CB's on Saturday are very capable passers of the ball so all he is doing is creating one less option for the CB's to pass out to.

      There again looking at his ability to control a ball in a confined space i wouldn't be surprised if he does it on purpose!
      AZPatriot
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      Re: Liverpool 5-0 Watford: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #256: Mar 19, 2018 03:57:05 pm
      That is a particular bug bear of mine, he does not need to do that esp when the two CB's on Saturday are very capable passers of the ball so all he is doing is creating one less option for the CB's to pass out to.

      There again looking at his ability to control a ball in a confined space i wouldn't be surprised if he does it on purpose!

      Or he is putting himself exactly where the manager told him...and I did not see Klopp correcting his position so for me following instructions.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Liverpool 5-0 Watford: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #257: Mar 19, 2018 04:05:16 pm
      That is a particular bug bear of mine, he does not need to do that esp when the two CB's on Saturday are very capable passers of the ball so all he is doing is creating one less option for the CB's to pass out to.

      There again looking at his ability to control a ball in a confined space i wouldn't be surprised if he does it on purpose!

      Could not agree more, and I suspect with a better player, we could possibly see our #6 play higher up like how Jorginho does for Napoli.

      Or he is putting himself exactly where the manager told him...and I did not see Klopp correcting his position so for me following instructions.

      Yeah, maybe so, and perhaps Klopp knows Hendo is poor playing in the tight areas and had him drop deeper?
      HScRed1
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      Re: Liverpool 5-0 Watford: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #258: Mar 19, 2018 04:42:36 pm
      Or he is putting himself exactly where the manager told him...and I did not see Klopp correcting his position so for me following instructions.

      Lol yeah yeah,  honestly the depths some posters go to!

      I didn't see Klopp correct him for being unable to control simple passes either.

      Robby The Z
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      Re: Liverpool 5-0 Watford: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #259: Mar 19, 2018 04:54:53 pm
      You guys are cracking me up. No idea who was deepest Saturday.

      I will note that I've seen Jordan, Emre and Gini each play that deep (between the center backs) at times. The only game I've seen in person since Klopp came in was a friendly in the U.S. vs. Roma, and a midfielder would often drop back that far. In one of  Klopp's first matches, I recall Lovren and Emre arguing over whether the latter should have been in that space as Lovren wanted him further upfield.

      Not sure anymore what started all of this, but I do agree that Jordan Henderson in the starting XI will not take us to the promised land. We need another new player along with Naby in midfield.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Liverpool 5-0 Watford: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #260: Mar 19, 2018 05:21:12 pm
      You guys are cracking me up. No idea who was deepest Saturday.

      I will note that I've seen Jordan, Emre and Gini each play that deep (between the center backs) at times. The only game I've seen in person since Klopp came in was a friendly in the U.S. vs. Roma, and a midfielder would often drop back that far. In one of  Klopp's first matches, I recall Lovren and Emre arguing over whether the latter should have been in that space as Lovren wanted him further upfield.

      Well, if you watch the games Hendo plays in (and even vs Watford), he is usually the deepest and the hub player for large duration of matches.

      I actually forgot about about the incident where Hendo this season dropped deep vs a defensive team with Matip (or lovren, can't remember) having a go at him and told him to push forward, so who knows if Klopp wanted him that deep or not... thinking about it now, I am not sure I have seen Hendo that deep for a while.

      Boston not la
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      Re: Liverpool 5-0 Watford: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #261: Mar 19, 2018 05:32:31 pm
       :mad: i watched the game with no sound..well godawful diddly music so it was more red shirt pass goal red shirt cross goal etc etc.Great f***in stuff!Won, arsed about #6#8 false feckin 9. :scarf:
      AZPatriot
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      Re: Liverpool 5-0 Watford: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #262: Mar 19, 2018 06:19:36 pm
      Lol yeah yeah,  honestly the depths some posters go to!





      Totally agree, some posters think they know and see more than the manager himself.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Liverpool 5-0 Watford: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #263: Mar 19, 2018 07:31:08 pm
      Well, if you watch the games Hendo plays in (and even vs Watford), he is usually the deepest and the hub player for large duration of matches.

      I actually forgot about about the incident where Hendo this season dropped deep vs a defensive team with Matip (or lovren, can't remember) having a go at him and told him to push forward, so who knows if Klopp wanted him that deep or not... thinking about it now, I am not sure I have seen Hendo that deep for a while.

      Yes, Hendo is normally the #6 if he plays. Lallana, Ox (or Phil before he left) are at #8, and Emre, Milner and Gini in between (obviously not all at once).

      I may be missing some acrimony between posters here. We have some interchangeable parts in our midfield, but mostly I'm hoping for upgrade in two if not all three positions next season.

      « Last Edit: Mar 19, 2018 07:35:27 pm by Robby The Z »
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Liverpool 5-0 Watford: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #264: Mar 19, 2018 07:43:12 pm
      Yes, Hendo is normally the #6 if he plays. Lallana, Ox (or Phil before he left) are at #8, and Emre, Milner and Gini in between (obviously not all at once).

      I may be missing some acrimony between posters here. We have some interchangeable parts in our midfield, but mostly I'm hoping for upgrade in two if not all three positions next season.



      Oh, I was confused by your post, nevermind, you seem to know!

      Dadorious
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      Re: Liverpool 5-0 Watford: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #265: Mar 19, 2018 11:30:41 pm
      If you say so...watched the part of the match before emre went out 3 times now...Hendo was behind emre and gini...I saw it from kickoff the commentators talked about it going as far to say the exact same thing. "With Henderson back in the side he takes the deeper role with Emre Can and Gini Winajaldum the more advanced positions in front of".

      That was the commentary and that is what I see on my DVR so we'll agree to disagree.


      Ok whichever way you saw it then whether he started or was moved there he was poor is the point I am trying to make.

      With him in that role against City we have no chance!
      AZPatriot
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      Re: Liverpool 5-0 Watford: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #266: Mar 19, 2018 11:34:58 pm
      Ok whichever way you saw it then whether he started or was moved there he was poor is the point I am trying to make.

      With him in that role against City we have no chance!

      OK...take your word for it.
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Liverpool 5-0 Watford: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #267: Mar 20, 2018 02:47:59 pm
      Am I being harsh in saying I thought Hendo stuck out like a sore thumb in terms of how bad he was? Thought he was shocking. Giving the ball away cheaply in our own half, having no influence on the game at all and looked well off the standard we need. I saw a stat the other day how over the last 3 seasons he’s been available for a total 52% of the time. I’m not sure how he can be relied upon because he doesn’t play half the time, literally, and when he does play he looks far from captain material or at the standard we should be aiming for. When you look at the quality of the front 3, the midfield is a real concern. Can, Hendo and Gini can all be massively upgraded IMO.

      More positively, Mo was just boss, 4 goals and 1 assist! Wow. 36 goals for the season already and 28 in the league. I remember back when we thought it was great how Torres got 33 and Suarez hit 31? Now we have a player who actually looks set to smash into the 40+ mark. The sad thing is, this kind of season would have won the Ballon d’or at one time, now it’s down to whoever goes the furthest in the Champions League or an International tournament out of Messi and Ronaldo.

      Bobby was class as usual and Mane was very good again. Robbo is looking a real bargain and in general, it’s great that we bounced back from the Manc game in such good fashion, complete domination.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Liverpool 5-0 Watford: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #268: Mar 20, 2018 04:28:19 pm
      Am I being harsh in saying I thought Hendo stuck out like a sore thumb in terms of how bad he was? Thought he was shocking. Giving the ball away cheaply in our own half, having no influence on the game at all and looked well off the standard we need. I saw a stat the other day how over the last 3 seasons he’s been available for a total 52% of the time. I’m not sure how he can be relied upon because he doesn’t play half the time, literally, and when he does play he looks far from captain material or at the standard we should be aiming for. When you look at the quality of the front 3, the midfield is a real concern. Can, Hendo and Gini can all be massively upgraded IMO.

      Every time someone posts about our midfield, I just can't help myself in replying!!!

      Honestly, he sticks out in a lot of matches for me because of how average his distribution is. I have still yet to see him have a passing game like a natural #6 does. I still think with a better #6, people will be surprised at how much better our attack will be!!! After so many years of Hendo in there, I feel people have forgotten how a deep midfielder should distribute!

      I have no problem with Hendo being captain, nor do I have a problem with him being a first team player, just not our deepest midfielder!! Same with Wijnaldum and  Can. I feel all 3 are very good players and I still consider them CL quality standard in the right role, but we just need to get the balance right!
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Liverpool 5-0 Watford: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #269: Mar 20, 2018 05:26:44 pm
      Am I being harsh in saying I thought Hendo stuck out like a sore thumb in terms of how bad he was? Thought he was shocking. Giving the ball away cheaply in our own half, having no influence on the game at all and looked well off the standard we need. I saw a stat the other day how over the last 3 seasons he’s been available for a total 52% of the time. I’m not sure how he can be relied upon because he doesn’t play half the time, literally, and when he does play he looks far from captain material or at the standard we should be aiming for. When you look at the quality of the front 3, the midfield is a real concern. Can, Hendo and Gini can all be massively upgraded IMO.

      More positively, Mo was just boss, 4 goals and 1 assist! Wow. 36 goals for the season already and 28 in the league. I remember back when we thought it was great how Torres got 33 and Suarez hit 31? Now we have a player who actually looks set to smash into the 40+ mark. The sad thing is, this kind of season would have won the Ballon d’or at one time, now it’s down to whoever goes the furthest in the Champions League or an International tournament out of Messi and Ronaldo.

      Bobby was class as usual and Mane was very good again. Robbo is looking a real bargain and in general, it’s great that we bounced back from the Manc game in such good fashion, complete domination.

      He had an atrocious 5-10 minutes but aside from that I actually thought Gini was very average and I can't recall him offering anything apart from getting beat quite easily in the odd physical challenge for the ball.

      Beating Man City over two legs is going to be tough purely on the basis that our midfield just isn't good enough. I think if there's one thing that you'd get 100% agreement on among forum members and the general fan base it is that fact regarding our limitations in the middle of the park. For sure - it may be hard working but there is very little going on in terms of technique and even less going on in the cranial department. That said, I have noticed that Henderson is being a bit more ambitious with the ball now, trying to find that perfect ball over the top and a defence splitting pass through the middle - so he definitely IS trying. It was on display against Newcastle and I believe it was on display against Watford though without much success. And that's great. You learn so much from that. Far better to be ambitious and not quite pull it off than be conservative and prove nothing to yourself or the team.

      But the problem with that is it may have come too late in the day to start trying to prove yourself in that side of the game. When you know that Keita is soon to be a Liverpool player you can't help but feel this is one last desperate show of approval from Jordan in front of Jürgen and co to display that he IS the man for the job in the number 6 and that Keita should be accommodated higher up the field. But that begs the question why he wasn't doing this the previous two years when Jürgen has conducted all before him. When all is said and done and Jordan hangs up his football boots he'll probably look back on his Liverpool career and think 'I really didn't need to tap the ball 3 yards square of me to my team mate within our own half'. You learn nothing from that.

      Much has been made of our 'inability' to break down the deep lying defences. It's less of a debate this season than last but a debate it still is and you can only put that down to the lack of technical quality from Jordan and our other midfielders to find that quality, intelligent ball needed to break ultra defence opposition down. None of us know for certain what kind of role Keita will be deployed in when he puts on the red shirt but if it is to play in that number 6 role then Jordan's efforts as I noted above are maybe too little too late in that regards. He's been a decent player for us but sadly quality, outstanding displays have been all too infrequent for him to be regarded anything other than 'decent'. He has shown his ability to pull out a performance like Chelsea away last season and coupled with his work ethic that means that he still makes a good squad player for us. But for a starting eleven, particularly in that number 6 role, he cannot be considered a mainstay for that role. This summer he'll be approaching 7 years at this club - that is more than long enough to have made a final judgement on him.

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