Why have we made such a slow start?

I’ll let you interject also.  Lethargy is not only a lack of enthusiasm it’s also sleepiness which is tired. A simple course of this is overexertion which was the case with the lads last year. Sugarcoat it all you want with the dictionary but the lads are tired!! In my opinion. Let’s leave the dictionary in the cupboard and just base our opinions 

Explain the lack of tiredness at Wembley

I don't think Naby gets in our best XI to be honest. And I don't know if a fully fit Naby Keita actually changes that much for us this season. The others do though, I agree with that.

It will be interesting to see (or know) if Jürgen has Jota in his best XI. I don't really like him out wide, I think he's a great goalscorer and not too much of anything else. So for me he'd play through the middle but given the big money signing of Nunez, you'd have to believe that Klopp sees him as the first choice centre forward (eventually).

Keita manhandled United last season when we won 5-0. Total terror to deal with. He can be a difference maker but would need consistent game time for that to happen and he's not going to get it since A. Thiago is the "everyday" starter, and B. he is prone to niggles that take him out a couple games at a time.

So really other people's reasons could be right then . What signs were there that arrogance and overconfidence existed ?

Of course other people's are equally valid...I don't suppose there is a way to determine who is right and who is wrong.
The arrogance was underestimating the opposition and not working hard enough...basically they thought the points were in the bag before a ball was kicked...That's what it looked like to me.

Explain the lack of tiredness at Wembley

My opinion of the team being fatigued is a opinion not one of fact, just as you disagree which maybe right. However, in my line of work ( greyhounds ) we use a term called the bounce factor which is also used in horse racing.

Basically when a greyhound/horse / individual comes back from a extend break they can throw a exceptional performance in which is quite hard to produce in the short term, in some cases long term. I actually use the program in my research of backing dogs.

It’s served me quite well over the years and do swear by it as my database backs it all up. Not saying it’s the same case with people but it’s a possibility not to underestimate.

My opinion of the team being fatigued is a opinion not one of fact, just as you disagree which maybe right. However, in my line of work ( greyhounds ) we use a term called the bounce factor which is also used in horse racing.

Basically when a greyhound/horse / individual comes back from a extend break they can throw a exceptional performance in which is quite hard to produce in the short term, in some cases long term. I actually use the program in my research of backing dogs.

It’s served me quite well over the years and do swear by is as my database backs it all up. Not saying it’s the same case with people but it’s a possibility not to underestimate.

That all sounds quite feasible Keith. We’ll see how things develop or not, over the next few matches.

My opinion of the team being fatigued is a opinion not one of fact, just as you disagree which maybe right. However, in my line of work ( greyhounds ) we use a term called the bounce factor which is also used in horse racing.

Basically when a greyhound/horse / individual comes back from a extend break they can throw a exceptional performance in which is quite hard to produce in the short term, in some cases long term. I actually use the program in my research of backing dogs.

It’s served me quite well over the years and do swear by it as my database backs it all up. Not saying it’s the same case with people but it’s a possibility not to underestimate.

Perhaps...who's to say...... I would however suggest the motivations of a dog, or a horse are far from comparable with a human being. We (Liverpool fan's) are far more complex animals.
Of course Man City had also had an extended break, yet they failed to throw in an excellent performance.

Enjoy the football at the weekend

Perhaps...who's to say...... I would however suggest the motivations of a dog, or a horse are far from comparable with a human being. We (Liverpool fan's) are far more complex animals.
Of course Man City had also had an extended break, yet they failed to throw in an excellent performance.

Enjoy the football at the weekend

Don’t let your ignorance on how the body parts works, doesn’t matter if it’s two legs or four. The bounce factor exists and scientifically proven, doesn’t mean it happens to everyone but just a possibility.

Once again your also  forgetting squad dept, no team in the league last year could match City’s.
Liverpool arguably had a best 11/15 last year whereas City had up to 20. However, feel free to kid yourself if that helps.

Don’t let your ignorance on how the body parts works, doesn’t matter if it’s two legs or four. The bounce factor exists and scientifically proven, doesn’t mean it happens to everyone but just a possibility.

Once again your also  forgetting squad dept, no team in the league last year could match City’s.
Liverpool arguably had a best 11/15 last year whereas City had up to 20. However, feel free to kid yourself if that helps.

I did say perhaps...as in perhaps you're right...There's no real answer here. This thread has gone a bit sideways, upside down and back to front.
I think I'm done ....You win

I did say perhaps...as in perhaps you're right...There's no real answer here. This thread has gone a bit sideways, upside down and back to front.
I think I'm done ....You win

It did go sideways but you did ask for a explanation of tiredness so I gave you a possible answer.
No winners or losers here just opinions.

The problem I have with all the fatigue, injured players scenario is why don't City suffer the same when they lose a few first team players..For the first three games we had the team to beat what was infront of us but failed to do so.

I have a feeling that after 5/6 years of playing the way we do, opposition coaches and managers know how to play us. They play on our weaknesses. They target Trent, close our midfield down and mark Salah tight..that seems to nullify us at the moment..

Jürgen singled out these performances for lack of passion and effort. This is part of what he said to the team in a meeting on Wednesday (as he shared with media today):

 “We have to improve and what you can improve immediately is effort,” he said. “I’m not sure but let me say it was maybe 95%. In the world of football we are living in you need 100%, if not a little bit more. And passion.”

If anyone is capable of going on a 10-20 game winning streak, it's us.

I'm concerned but not stressed, yet!

Early days yet, but I am confident, that we will find our true form, hopefully sooner than later. Need to start picking up points especially against teams like Bournemouth. Ideally we will have all three at the end of today's game !

Poor start over and done with....Next please

Who on earth started this topic 

Explain the lack of tiredness at Wembley

There wasn't because for about the tenth time I've read your posts, what game where you watching when we played the Charity Shield? You know the difference between Wembley and the King Power?

Poor start over and done with....Next please

It's not though, we meed another win on Wednesday or yesterday means F**k all!!

I did not watch yesterday's game, but I think the question is still relevant.

I'll say three things.

The wings
As good as Diaz is, he is not Mane yet. Not in terms of skills, but Mane was very good a connecting with Robertson and our No.9, whoever he was. Diaz still needs to develop that, not for himself but for the team. The reason the stats of our midfield is so poor (goals and assists) is that the threat comes from Robertson and TAA but if they cannot go forward, the balance is off. There's' not enough threat in our attack.

The attitude
I think our preseason was not good. The team was not ready even though we found a way to win against M.City. I suspect we played too much last season and during preseason too. Preseason was too short.
For whatever reason, the team was not mentally ready. A lot of things were off. VVD was too complacent, Henderson showed little to no leadership in midfield and in front, everyone was finding the marks. TAA was forcing things and for sure defensively we were very very silly.

Midfield
Playing without a proper DM (Fabinho) is a fatal mistake for us when we're in a difficult phase. As I said earlier, TAA and Robertson need to be able to go forward, otherwise the balance of the team is off. Henderson and Thiago are not expected to score or assist regularly because that's not their role in the team. They are here to recycle the ball and move it forward as quickly as possible, that's it. With TAA and sometimes VVD all over the place, not having Fabinho against ManU was fatal. And lacking a DM when we need control, puts us in a more difficult phase. Also, Milner should not start. HE would not got on the bench of most teams in the top 10 of the league, to think that he can do a jod as a starter is a joke.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/aug/23/liverpools-early-season-woes-have-variety-of-factors-behind-them

Title of an Andy Hunter article but I think the topic deserves its own thread (after 44 pages of posts from the United match). Nothing in the article really new, but a decent summary.

We looked old and slow in too many instances last night.  Answer must be so much more involved than "buy somebody." Who is/are the man/men to really step up and right the ship?

Injuries and lack of quality back up.

Think the lads just reminded themselves the level they need individually and collectively to match previous levels dont think we will have a problem on that score again.

Who on earth started this topic 

Behave Cas!!! 

Dramatic improvement Saturday but let's see the team maintain high form. Stiffer test Wednesday

Behave Cas!!! 

Dramatic improvement Saturday but let's see the team maintain high form. Stiffer test Wednesday

Just teasing you Robby 

Oh I'm sure we will, confident that we'll go on a run now.

There wasn't because for about the tenth time I've read your posts, what game where you watching when we played the Charity Shield? You know the difference between Wembley and the King Power?

It's not though, we meed another win on Wednesday or yesterday means f**k all!!

I watched it on the television....Just forgot it was at Leicester.

So with Jones and Matip back , we have Jota and Thiago back training tomorrow so for the BS game we could have a heck of a better bench when you also add Nunez