FSG put Liverpool up for sale

Are they really??

City lost: Sterling, Jesus, Zinchenko, Cancelo and they haven't gone mad. They replaced Jesus/Sterling with a world class player+ a player with good potential who they got for cheap in South America. The desperately need a LB and they are using an academy player + a Ake who is their Joe Gomez that can fill in for a fullback spot. I would say City are transitioning to a sustainable model right now, I know they spent loads in the past to get them there but they are not also panic buying everything on sight like Chelsea.

Do you believe the only way to own/run a football club is by state-owned villains or dodgy billionaires in a consortium?

If you believe, 'no' - could you tell me your third option?
If you believe 'yes' - are FSG state-owned villains or a dodgy billionaire consortium?

Which clubs are successful in the modern era right now ?


Clearly people aren’t happy with only spending what we make

So what are you left with - city , state owned , Chelsea - rich Consortium, Utd - leveraged debt

What other clubs out there have any other model and are successful

If there is another then brilliant. I’m not sure what it is

City lost: Sterling, Jesus, Zinchenko, Cancelo and they haven't gone mad. They replaced Jesus/Sterling with a world class player+ a player with good potential who they got for cheap in South America. The desperately need a LB and they are using an academy player + a Ake who is their Joe Gomez that can fill in for a fullback spot. I would say City are transitioning to a sustainable model right now, I know they spent loads in the past to get them there but they are not also panic buying everything on sight like Chelsea.

What on earth has that got to do with them being well run clubs?

Leeds spent millions in the 90's/2000's and Almost went bust.

And City's 'sustainable model' is questionable at best and downright illegal at worst.

City lost: Sterling, Jesus, Zinchenko, Cancelo and they haven't gone mad. They replaced Jesus/Sterling with a world class player+ a player with good potential who they got for cheap in South America. The desperately need a LB and they are using an academy player + a Ake who is their Joe Gomez that can fill in for a fullback spot. I would say City are transitioning to a sustainable model right now, I know they spent loads in the past to get them there but they are not also panic buying everything on sight like Chelsea.

They bought Grealish in to replace Sterling who cost £100m.. I know Sterling was still there at the time, but Grealish was his replacement. And Ake was a £45m pound investment who could play anywhere along the back 4, Joe Gomez cost £3m and plays like his price tag. They definitely did some dodgy things off of the books for Haaland to stay within the FFP rules, no way did he only cost £50m.

So now they only way we can be successful is if we have a model where we spend more than we make and we need someone to pick up the bill for the gap between outgoings and incomings ?

And that just leaves us with state ownership or finding some very rich consortium who are willing to lose millions each year

You could also sometimes spend more than you make, and some years spend less than you make. In fact that's how a lot of corporate businesses are run until the point at which they are so wildly profitable that it doesn't matter anymore. Sports franchises are a little bit different animal and a lot of them carry "healthy" debt because the value is in the status of the club itself. Man United is riddled with bad debt and they will still be bought for a healthy price which will make the old owners a lot of money. The new owners will figure out how to manage or leverage the debt and the club will likely continue to be run similarly to the way it's run now. There's a lot of emotion that goes into owning a sports club. FSG don't seem to have much of that. It's interesting...you should watch the docuseries on Wrexham. American owners that have "bailed out" / bought a club and have fallen in love with it (and the sport) and realized that it's going to cost a lot of money out of pocket to get it back to where they believe it belongs. Guess that's the romantic in me but that's the way to go. Get some owners that want to be fully invested emotionally and monetarily in the club and want to see it be successful.

You could also sometimes spend more than you make, and some years spend less than you make. In fact that's how a lot of corporate businesses are run until the point at which they are so wildly profitable that it doesn't matter anymore. Sports franchises are a little bit different animal and a lot of them carry "healthy" debt because the value is in the status of the club itself. Man United is riddled with bad debt and they will still be bought for a healthy price which will make the old owners a lot of money. The new owners will figure out how to manage or leverage the debt and the club will likely continue to be run similarly to the way it's run now. There's a lot of emotion that goes into owning a sports club. FSG don't seem to have much of that. It's interesting...you should watch the docuseries on Wrexham. American owners that have "bailed out" / bought a club and have fallen in love with it (and the sport) and realized that it's going to cost a lot of money out of pocket to get it back to where they believe it belongs. Guess that's the romantic in me but that's the way to go. Get some owners that want to be fully invested emotionally and monetarily in the club and want to see it be successful.

Wanted to highlight this bit.  Our owners bought this club 10 years ago for about 10% of what they stand to sell it for today.  Even with the money they have pumped into stadium improvements, they could not possibly be in any deeper than around 300M - 350M.  They stand to profit close to 2B on the sale of the club.  The value of the club has grown far more than the investment they have put in, so I think it's fair to expect that they should be willing to reciprocate some of that value back into the club for the likes of the players and fans.  However, they won't do this.  As you say, they are emotionally detached -- only in it for business reasons.  The sale of the club was an inevitability once the Super League went tits up. 

There’s going to be very little going on in terms of any takeover between now and the summer. I see reports where people say there is nothing remotely concrete in terms of talks at the moment. But that’s obvious given the current situation of the club. FSG apparently want 3.5-4 billion for the club but they’re never going to get that as things stand because why would anyone come in for the club now when they could come in during the summer when the club (as things currently look) will have no European football and when the revenue streams are set to massively decrease and in turn decrease the value of the club? What worth 3.5bn now could be worth 2.5bn in 6 months.

In terms of minority investment, that’s simply never going to happen because if it was going to then it would have happened by now seeing as FSG have been looking for that since 2016. Nobody is going to essentially let FSG keep control of the club but just spend someone else’s money.

FSG had the prime time to sell either when we won the league or last summer when the club was in its strongest position in terms of on pitch success.

The longer FSG hold out with their current valuation of the club, the more likely they will be at risk of losing more and more of what they could potentially get.

8th is the worst finish we had since the PL started in 1992, I think we will finish 8th though the more concerning part is the dramatic decline from nearly winning a quadruple less than a year ago.

If we had a young squad where we could see the potential then at least we could see a way forward. Unfortunately we have a lot of players on high wages whose contract runs for years yet, they deserved those wages as they resulted from some of our best times in a long time but with the current owners it is hard to see how we improve.

Fabinho is under contract till the end of 2026, Hendo till 2025 and I think it will be very hard to move players on due to age and current salary.

Our best midfield is an 18yr old with loads of promise, a player with a few months left in his contract so naturally will be protecting himself as he will get a large signing on fee come June 1st and Thiago who is injury prone.

Unless the rules for soccer are changing in the summer to a 5 man game then spending 120-150m on Bellingham is madness as he is not the final piece in the jigsaw, we need loads of pieces to slowly rebuild again.

Wanted to highlight this bit.  Our owners bought this club 10 years ago for about 10% of what they stand to sell it for today.  Even with the money they have pumped into stadium improvements, they could not possibly be in any deeper than around 300M - 350M.  They stand to profit close to 2B on the sale of the club.  The value of the club has grown far more than the investment they have put in, so I think it's fair to expect that they should be willing to reciprocate some of that value back into the club for the likes of the players and fans.  However, they won't do this.  As you say, they are emotionally detached -- only in it for business reasons.  The sale of the club was an inevitability once the Super League went tits up.

I think everything they've done in terms of bringing money into the club is just to benefit them. I understand they see the club as a buisness and want to make as much money as possible, but they have to put some money in every now and again to protect their assets.

They would be happy making £60m-£70m profit a year and hope Klopp can do miracles and still sell for £3billion .. as apposed to selling up now and not having that yearly income.

The owners should put a sign outside the stadium for any potential buyers.

No Arabs.
No Mancs.
No Time Wasters.

Unless the rules for soccer are changing in the summer to a 5 man game then spending 120-150m on Bellingham is madness as he is not the final piece in the jigsaw, we need loads of pieces to slowly rebuild again.

Soccer?

In a bit lad.

Which clubs are successful in the modern era right now ?

Clearly people aren’t happy with only spending what we make

So what are you left with - city , state owned , Chelsea - rich Consortium, Utd - leveraged debt

What other clubs out there have any other model and are successful

If there is another then brilliant. I’m not sure what it is

Sometimes you spend money you don't have. Not all the time. Sometimes. That's just business. Speculate to accumulate. Sometimes you have to take a hit. And yes, sometimes you have to sell to buy. But sometimes you have to take risks. Do you think a club owner would stick around if they were losing money left right and Friday? Not a chance. So they must be making some cash somehow. Must be. Why else have FSG stuck around for 12 years? There's a reason for that. Here's it is: Their long-term plan was to buy a club for £300m and sell it for billions. They aren't stupid. They've been in it for the money right from the start. And they are making billions. Literally! So there you go, that's why FSG have stuck around for 12 years. To make billions in profit. And they will. So is it really that incredulous to ask owners who are making billions of dollars profit - to help a manager out with a few signings to strengthen a team that's fallen off a cliff?

Here's (roughly) £24m every transfer window for 12 years. I'll be content to make a £3.5b profit. You're welcome.

Again, fair enough. Good business for them. But as soon as the team ages and we're struggling all over the pitch and screaming for funds to buy players, we get next to nothing. That's not acceptable. We've won stuff despite FSG's fiscal plan - not because of it.

FSG have given us some of (if not) the best moments of our Liverpool supporting years. But 24 hours is a long time in football and they are now looking like dinosaurs when compared to today's club owners. So pop over to Liverpool once, twice a year, and sit tight whilst the club makes you £.3.5 billion in profit. Not a bad deal if you can get it.

It's fine to hate state ownership for moral reason. But you can't deny they know how to properly run a club. Newcastle and City are properly run clubs at the moment.

Hahaha F**k off properly run. If they were properly run they wouldn't need the extra sponsorship from companies owned by the actual club owners for the FFP fiddle.

Sometimes you spend money you don't have. Not all the time. Sometimes. That's just business. Speculate to accumulate. Sometimes you have to take a hit. And yes, sometimes you have to sell to buy. But sometimes you have to take risks. Do you think a club owner would stick around if they were losing money left right and Friday? Not a chance. So they must be making some cash somehow. Must be.

Why must they be making cash ?

Im confused at that ? They have the club as part of the sports portfolio.

They will make their cash when they sell of the club in parts or as a whole - unless the thinking is they are taking money out of the club


And in regards taking a risk - it’s easy to say but what is the risk - spend £100mil on a player. 🤷‍♂️ what happens if that has issues ? Spend another ? And then another ?


They are speculating by looking to improve the stadium etc to bring in more funding

It’s easy for us to say - just take a risk , would we be ok to take the risk and put the risk on the club ?

Why else have FSG stuck around for 12 years? There's a reason for that. Here's it is: Their long-term plan was to buy a club for £300m and sell it for billions. They aren't stupid. They've been in it for the money right from the start. And they are making billions. Literally! So there you go, that's why FSG have stuck around for 12 years. To make billions in profit. And they will. So is it really that incredulous to ask owners who are making billions of dollars profit - to help a manager out with a few signings to strengthen a team that's fallen off a cliff?

Yes the work done over the last 12 years has improved the club to the point that if they sell they will make a profit - if the club overall improves through that period then what is there to complain about

Here's (roughly) £24m every transfer window for 12 years. I'll be content to make a £3.5b profit. You're welcome.

Again, fair enough. Good business for them. But as soon as the team ages and we're struggling all over the pitch and screaming for funds to buy players, we get next to nothing. That's not acceptable. We've won stuff despite FSG's fiscal plan - not because of it.

FSG have given us some of (if not) the best moments of our Liverpool supporting years. But 24 hours is a long time in football and they are now looking like dinosaurs when compared to today's club owners. So pop over to Liverpool once, twice a year, and sit tight whilst the club makes you £.3.5 billion in profit. Not a bad deal if you can get it.

Let’s be honest - if they spent the same as Chelsea people cooldnt a f**k how many times they come over

This season so far we have spent what - £130mil ? Brought in 4 players


We constantly bring in players each year but because it’s not who people want or at the level of other clubs then people start to stomp their feet


So what ownership model do you want - we need to find a billionaire who is more than willing to lose a fair amount of his own money , or a state that is going to use the club for sports washing


6 months ago we were going for everything and from that squad we added £130mil worth of players into the squad losing one main player - and now it’s “fallen off a cliff”

We had the same 3 years ago and recovered , we will recover again.  Everyone is acting as if that’s it - we are done , top club over , mid table here we come. We have built before , we can build again

The owners should put a sign outside the stadium for any potential buyers.

No Arabs.

WTF?

Soccer?

In a bit lad.

In Ireland football is a slightly tougher game than the football we are talking about here

WTF?

Ok I’ll rephrase it.

No Arabs of loose or blemished morals.

WTF?

It's called sarcasm!!

City lost: Sterling, Jesus, Zinchenko, Cancelo and they haven't gone mad. They replaced Jesus/Sterling with a world class player+ a player with good potential who they got for cheap in South America. The desperately need a LB and they are using an academy player + a Ake who is their Joe Gomez that can fill in for a fullback spot. I would say City are transitioning to a sustainable model right now, I know they spent loads in the past to get them there but they are not also panic buying everything on sight like Chelsea.

Sustainable model You mean Pep's got bored of spunking millions cos he wants to bring a few kids through now

Why must they be making cash ?

Im confused at that ? They have the club as part of the sports portfolio.

They will make their cash when they sell of the club in parts or as a whole - unless the thinking is they are taking money out of the club


And in regards taking a risk - it’s easy to say but what is the risk - spend £100mil on a player. 🤷‍♂️ what happens if that has issues ? Spend another ? And then another ?


They are speculating by looking to improve the stadium etc to bring in more funding

It’s easy for us to say - just take a risk , would we be ok to take the risk and put the risk on the club ?

Yes the work done over the last 12 years has improved the club to the point that if they sell they will make a profit - if the club overall improves through that period then what is there to complain about

Let’s be honest - if they spent the same as Chelsea people cooldnt a f**k how many times they come over

This season so far we have spent what - £130mil ? Brought in 4 players


We constantly bring in players each year but because it’s not who people want or at the level of other clubs then people start to stomp their feet


So what ownership model do you want - we need to find a billionaire who is more than willing to lose a fair amount of his own money , or a state that is going to use the club for sports washing


6 months ago we were going for everything and from that squad we added £130mil worth of players into the squad losing one main player - and now it’s “fallen off a cliff”

We had the same 3 years ago and recovered , we will recover again.  Everyone is acting as if that’s it - we are done , top club over , mid table here we come. We have built before , we can build again

130 mil in players? What am I missing?

Nunez, Gakpo, Ramsey, Carvalho. They were 130 mil?

130 mil in players? What am I missing?

Nunez, Gakpo, Ramsey, Carvalho. They were 130 mil?

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-liverpool/transfers/verein/31

https://www.thisisanfield.com/liverpool-fc-transfers-season-2022-23/

130 mil in players? What am I missing?

Nunez, Gakpo, Ramsey, Carvalho. They were 130 mil?

That'd be about right.

That'd be about right.

Jesus help me. Such a weird group to be brought in when your MF is aging and lost its legs. I'll never understand this.... And to pay THAT!!!!