Is English officiating corrupt?

They don't need factual evidence of a crime to make an allegation of a crime. Will that allegation be investigated? Of course not.

You know very well that you cannot "prove" bias when we are dealing with "subjective" matters. We literally have a system of Government where the officials can pick and choose what laws of the game they apply and how.

It is absolutely plausible that a fan of Liverpool could officiate a Man City game and choose to deny them a penalty that would see them drop a point or all three in one of their final games. That penalty is entirely subjective and it doesn't matter what the offence was.

Handball? Meh... depends
Contact? Possible.. depends

I could sit there now with an official hat on and literally affect the outcome of City's matches with my bias, and you would have no evidence that I had done so.

That Luton fan could have denied 20 penalty claims in that match and you would still say there is no evidence so nothing happened. An Everton defender could have gone Suarez and smashed the ball away with his hand on the goal line and it would still be "subjective" to give a penalty or not.

It’s all nothing but nonsense and sour grapes at the end of the day


Referring is under massive scrunity every single time a game is played and their mistakes are highlighted to the 9th degree


Refs in other countries and indeed internationally have been found to be corrupt and been caught

Yet nothing in the prem


Forest didn’t lose the game because a Luton fan was VAR and didn’t give them a penalty because it would have affect Luton - ( if anything a draw would have been better for Luton ) - he didn’t give a penalty because he didn’t think the ref made an obvious error - and Forest as a club have embarrassed themselves with their statement and will get a massive fine for it

The astonishing fact is there is no means of monitoring much less correcting the woeful decisions made by the visually impaired/biased officials of the FA.

The astonishing fact is there is no means of monitoring much less correcting the woeful decisions made by the visually impaired/biased officials of the FA.

Who Refs the Refs..go on forever. Too many involved in the decision making process. VAR is just causing decisions to rumble on and on. This latest controversy will drag on and on. Seems like the system was designed to cause issues.

It's caught between two stools. Sometimes the Ref is sent to the monitor, mostly he isn't. The hand ball rule seems to have been reinterpreted mid season. The clear and obvious error rule...is exactly the opposite...it's not clear & obvious what is a clear & obvious error.

What is clear & obvious is that the system is flawed.

Who Refs the Refs..go on forever. Too many involved in the decision making process. VAR is just causing decisions to rumble on and on. This latest controversy will drag on and on. Seems like the system was designed to cause issues.

It's caught between two stools. Sometimes the Ref is sent to the monitor, mostly he isn't. The hand ball rule seems to have been reinterpreted mid season. The clear and obvious error rule...is exactly the opposite...it's not clear & obvious what is a clear & obvious error.

What is clear & obvious is that the system is flawed.

VAR by its very nature cannot be flawed, what can be faulted as you indicate is the human element which sometimes incredibly overrules filmed evidence.

The Sky lot have clearly been told to pack it in by the PGMOL regarding criticism of officials.

Marked difference how they react now to blunders earlier in the season.

It’s all nothing but nonsense and sour grapes at the end of the day


Referring is under massive scrunity every single time a game is played and their mistakes are highlighted to the 9th degree

Your talents to defend the indefensible are wasted on here. You should apply to Sky and see if you can take Dermot Gallagher's job. Get paid to spout nonsense.

Your talents to defend the indefensible are wasted on here. You should apply to Sky and see if you can take Dermot Gallagher's job. Get paid to spout nonsense.

Yet you still can’t provide a single bit of proof to any corruption within referees in the Prem


So show me when a referee has given decisions based on the team they support

Why didn’t quote the rest of the post 🤷‍♂️

Why didn’t quote the rest of the post 🤷‍♂️

Because there wasn't any point. You were just pretending to be able to read the minds of officials and claimed that you know for a certainty that the Luton fan did not allow his preference that Forest lose the game affect his decisions that had a direct influence on Forest losing the game.

As for your point about evidence, I already explained above why it is not possible to provide evidence and you conveniently ignored that.

Because there wasn't any point. You were just pretending to be able to read the minds of officials and claimed that you know for a certainty that the Luton fan did not allow his preference that Forest lose the game affect his decisions that had a direct influence on Forest losing the game.

As for your point about evidence, I already explained above why it is not possible to provide evidence and you conveniently ignored that.

Ok - how many prem referees have been found guilty of corruption 🤷‍♂️


And my initial post said


“Refs are sh*t - they don’t intentionally make bad decisions just to help a team they support

Ok - how many prem referees have been found guilty of corruption 🤷‍♂️

I've already explained this. But let's try again.

Imagine you are the VAR official and you genuinely want to favour Liverpool. You have the opportunity to deny Man City a penalty and you go ahead. You make a conscious decision to affect the outcome of a VAR decision and Man City drop points. Mission accomplished.

How could anyone PROVE that you intentionally made the choice through your own bias?

They can't. Your decision is subjective and no matter how many thousands of people might scream and shout about it, you will have the excuse that you did it for X reason.

Point being, you simply cannot prove that an official was bias when we are dealing with subjective decisions. They may well be bias. They can be. But no one can prove it.

I've already explained this. But let's try again.

Imagine you are the VAR official and you genuinely want to favour Liverpool. You have the opportunity to deny Man City a penalty and you go ahead. You make a conscious decision to affect the outcome of a VAR decision and Man City drop points. Mission accomplished.

How could anyone PROVE that you intentionally made the choice through your own bias?

They can't. Your decision is subjective and no matter how many thousands of people might scream and shout about it, you will have the excuse that you did it for X reason.

Point being, you simply cannot prove that an official was bias when we are dealing with subjective decisions. They may well be bias. They can be. But no one can prove it.

You do realise that it’s a decision that will prob be scrutinised heavily under the microscope


The refeeres are not stupid enough to intentionally attempt to affect the game based on the team they support - there are thousands of cameras on them , every said is recorded


So yes the referees are not intentionally making decisions to favour the team they support

I've already explained this. But let's try again.

Imagine you are the VAR official and you genuinely want to favour Liverpool. You have the opportunity to deny Man City a penalty and you go ahead. You make a conscious decision to affect the outcome of a VAR decision and Man City drop points. Mission accomplished.

How could anyone PROVE that you intentionally made the choice through your own bias?

They can't. Your decision is subjective and no matter how many thousands of people might scream and shout about it, you will have the excuse that you did it for X reason.

Point being, you simply cannot prove that an official was bias when we are dealing with subjective decisions. They may well be bias. They can be. But no one can prove it.

That is a fair enough point mate but for me I genuinely don't think there is any high level corruption among the refs just that most of the are simply not good enough at their jobs and some of the rules are either too complicated or too vague which leaves room for fans to do label corruption.

You do realise that it’s a decision that will prob be scrutinised heavily under the microscope


The refeeres are not stupid enough to intentionally attempt to affect the game based on the team they support - there are thousands of cameras on them , every said is recorded


So yes the referees are not intentionally making decisions to favour the team they support

But what you said does not in any way counter my point. You are simply saying as a blanket assumption that it wouldn't happen.

I'm saying it could happen. It would be very easy for it to happen. But.. and this is crucial, no one would be able to prove whether there was bias or not. With it being subjective, every official is entitled to make whatever decisions they like and they are justified. That's why we never get the same decision about the same incident in two different matches.

Consequently no official can ever be found guilty and you can always claim "aha.. it is not proven". That doesn't mean it didn't happen of course..

The Sky lot have clearly been told to pack it in by the PGMOL regarding criticism of officials.

Marked difference how they react now to blunders earlier in the season.

Hahaha was funny the way Neville nearly wet himself when Saha started pointing out how's there is errors by refs every weekend

Because there wasn't any point. You were just pretending to be able to read the minds of officials and claimed that you know for a certainty that the Luton fan did not allow his preference that Forest lose the game affect his decisions that had a direct influence on Forest losing the game.

As for your point about evidence, I already explained above why it is not possible to provide evidence and you conveniently ignored that.

The Luton fan is Stuart Atwell

Forest will get an apology from PGMOL, then a disrepute charge from the FA

Everton were docked 10 points for breaching the Premier League's 'profitability and sustainability' rules in seasons 19/20...20/21...22/22. Reduced to 6 on appeal.Nottingham Forest were deducted 4 points for breaching PSR in 22/23.

Manchester City however have outstanding PSR charges as well as other charges. It is well over a year since the charges were levied and I understand some of the charges date back to 2009 through to 2018.

There's currently no indication of when the hearings will begin and could still be more than another year before any dates are set. This doesn't mean City are getting preferential treatment, it's just that there is a wealth of evidence and detail to get together. But still should've moved quicker considering they nabbed others 10 times quicker.

But what you said does not in any way counter my point. You are simply saying as a blanket assumption that it wouldn't happen.

I'm saying it could happen. It would be very easy for it to happen. But.. and this is crucial, no one would be able to prove whether there was bias or not. With it being subjective, every official is entitled to make whatever decisions they like and they are justified. That's why we never get the same decision about the same incident in two different matches.

Consequently no official can ever be found guilty and you can always claim "aha.. it is not proven". That doesn't mean it didn't happen of course..

L in PJ's states there's no corruption from officials and says the lack of evidence is proof....it is factually untrue that a lack of evidence is proof of innocence. This is why in criminal cases a defendant when acquitted is found not guilty, as opposed to being found innocent...no one is ever found innocent....for the very reason we are talking about, lack of evidence doesn't prove you didn't commit an offence, it just means the evidence (if any) can't be proven (beyond a reasonable doubt). We have no way of ever knowing/proving why any VAR official decides any incident, even if he resorts to bias...it may be unconsciously, and therefore unknown even to himself. All human beings are subject to bias, conscious or unconscious.
This is why (and it's statistically been proven) judges remand more prisoners before lunch (when they are hungry) ..than after lunch...they were in a bad mood when hungry....and a good mood when they're full.

The Luton fan is Stuart Atwell

Forest will get an apology from PGMOL, then a disrepute charge from the FA

They've got their appeal against the 4pt deduction for PSR breach, in a week or so. They might not get an apology from the Everton game.

Hahaha was funny the way Neville nearly wet himself when Saha started pointing out how's there is errors by refs every weekend

Neville sets himself up like he's some kind of supreme judge. Saha was saying what the fans say, well most of them. Snivelle looked at him as if to say.."I'm the supreme judge of the rights and wrongs of this issue "

The Sky lot have clearly been told to pack it in by the PGMOL regarding criticism of officials.

Marked difference how they react now to blunders earlier in the season.

The two refs that are on sky are mates with all the other ones so they won't criticise them it's a closed shop. Stopped watching sly sports news on a Sat since Jeff left, it's absolutely pathetic now.

Neville sets himself up like he's some kind of supreme judge. Saha was saying what the fans say, well most of them. Snivelle looked at him as if to say.."I'm the supreme judge of the rights and wrongs of this issue "

He's a pompous little pr**k. Glad I don't see to much of him.

The Luton fan is Stuart Atwell

Forest will get an apology from PGMOL, then a disrepute charge from the FA

Atwell could be a chavs fan, arse fan, spuds fan, hammers fan, just about anyone in that neck of the woods.
He may have declared he was a Luton fan to detach himself from his real supported club, as he never expected to see Luton in the prem anyway. 🤷‍♂️
Isn’t there a ref manc supporter who declares he’s a born and bread Stockport county supporter or something ?

Atwell could be a chavs fan, arse fan, spuds fan, hammers fan, just about anyone in that neck of the woods.
He may have declared he was a Luton fan to detach himself from his real supported club, as he never expected to see Luton in the prem anyway. 🤷‍♂️
Isn’t there a ref manc supporter who declares he’s a born and bread Stockport county supporter or something ?

Anthony Taylor supports Altrincham