Zonal Marking

There's always a reason why Rafa persists with zonal marking, there's something which he sees - which we obviously can't see.

The bulk of our goals conceded this season come from mainly set-pieces. Understandably that is why zonal marking comes into question. For me the zonal system works easy - mark the area you have to, or rather the zone and so you're effectively responsible for whatever players that enter that zone.

I don't see it that flexible because you have to be rigid, making sure you are not getting out of your zone. Imagine if 10 opposition players crowd 1 zone and we are going to leave them all unmarked because of others in different zones. The movement of opposition players play a part as well. As Ivanovic exposed this in our CL loss last season. If you make a mad dash out of shock and into the other zone which leaves another zonal marker flabbergasted and then he's going to panic and we're going to lose a goal.

Yesterday the understanding was obviously not there at all. They took advantage that easily, the ball was stuck into the net and we were again undone by set pieces. Just like Brian said how 4 of our defenders stood nowhere marking sh*t. Theres obviously more Bolton attackers having a go at us, the simple way to undo zonal is just to crowd a certain area and then get the ball into that area and they have an advantage over us already.

However, I am not panicking and not for changing the zonal system just yet. We have no time to work on that now. Changing to a completely different system when the players are accustommed to 5 years of zonal doesn't seem right to me. This can/should be done in the off season instead. Perhaps we should have a little tweak, having just a mixture of zonal and man. Those players which have no man to mark in the zone can easily go into another area to make sure that the defence is properly well covered.

Man marking is the way forward, simple but effective. Nearly every other team use the man marking system and no matter how much we go from corners and free kicks into the area we don't score - it just goes to score that man marking is good.

I am all for man marking, also nearly every player prefers man marking because it is not as complicated as the zonal system, just a defensive lapse and you're gone, while for man marking its more about making sure your opponent don't get the ball. But for me not the time to change the system just yet, not panicking just yet, wait till the more experienced defenders come back and maybe we can see how they would organise the zonal system.

Even though we are using zonal now we just need to be much more alert and have some common sense and not mark empty space.

great post rof, this makes a lot of sense to me and i do agree.

Zonal Marking F U C K  IT O F F !! It just is not working for us...

If we marked players, then the marking would come under fire.

We've simply not been good enough at defending set pieces lately and it's got to stop.

Zonal marking has turned into a theme for us at the back. But it's kept goals out in the past.

Determination from the players is what's needed.

We have advocates of both pro and anti-zonal marking on here; personally, I do not understand it. I do not like it.

If I was now playing 'Zonal' and marking a space; it's possible that I could either, be marking no-one or someone much better in the air - in fact I could be defending a space that had more than one opponent attacking it; all of who were better than me in the air. Is that correct?

 

Yesterday, Insua (5' 10"), was marking his 'zone' perfectly when who should wander into it only Elmander (6'2") - guess who won that aerial battle, leading to a goal? .....* cuts his "told ya so!" song and dance short and continues.....

The anti-zonal legions can point to the goals we concede from set pieces and, to be honest, it's hard to deny we've got a case. However, those that are quick to defend 'zonal' blame the players and how they play the system.

It would then follow that, if the players are to blame it's because they; a) don't understand it or, b) aren't good enough to operate within that system.
Logic would seem to dictate therefore; that until the players either understand 'Zonal' or are good enough to execute the system: it may be best that we stop playing 'Zonal'. - Only a thought like.

I really have a problem with man-marking though, ROF.

Top class players peel away far too easily i nthe man marking system. Fernando has scored so many headers by simply dropping off the defenders' shoulder and making a run to the ball. Just look at his goal v Porto in the Champions League 2 seasons ago and then Tottenham last season just as a few examples.

Zonal marking works, if you have all aspects of it in sync and we don't.

Zonal marking works, if you have all aspects of it in sync and we don't.

I don't mean to put words into your mouth or anything but...... to me that sounds like an admission that Zonal marking isn't working. 

I don't mean to put words into your mouth or anything but...... to me that sounds like an admission that Zonal marking isn't working. 

I know it's not working, i've been vocal in saying that it isn't but while some think it should be scrapped, i think it can be improved.

Professional footballers should be able to adapt to any system be it man to man or zonal.

As for the lack of communication whatever happened to opening your gob and either shouting 'man on!!' or 'Carra's/Terminator's ball!!'?

Also, remember when the crowd used to help by bellowing 'MAN ON!!!'?

That seems to have died a death recently.

in short, there's nothing wrong with Zonal or man marking.  the problem is plain and simple bad defending, and at the moment that is our problem.

I know it's not working, I've been vocal in saying that it isn't but while some think it should be scrapped, I think it can be improved.

See, to me that's interesting crouchinho. For I stated in earlier posts that I do not understand set-piece 'Zonal' marking and I asked for someone more familiar with the concept to explain it in detail. I do understand the basic premise of the system but am struggling with the mechanisms (particularly at set-pieces). In what way, for e.g., can it be optimised? What do we need to change to make it work?

I believe football is a beautiful but simple game so perhaps I'm naive when it comes to systems. I'm not trying to have a row - just seeking insight.

See, to me that's interesting crouchinho. For I stated in earlier posts that I do not understand set-piece 'Zonal' marking and I asked for someone more familiar with the concept to explain it in detail. I do understand the basic premise of the system but am struggling with the mechanisms (particularly at set-pieces). In what way, for e.g., can it be optimised? What do we need to change to make it work?

I believe football is a beautiful but simple game so perhaps I'm naive when it comes to systems. I'm not trying to have a row - just seeking insight.

That's cool.

Currently we seem to have Pepe standing alone in the 6 yard box and our players start about 8 yards from the goal. The problem here is, the players break from their zone and end up in one big bunch.

What i have noticed is we have no one standing on the two posts. If we just stick two men on either post and just keep them there until it's cleared it would improve the situation.

Also, we seem too keen to hit them on the break. I love our counter attacking play but filling the box with every player but having 6 or 7 of them not in a position to clear the header is just pointless. Why can't we just have 1 man up field to gather a cleared ball and hold it up for some support? The rest of them can just concentrate on clearing the ball.

There were 4 Bolton players who were left unmarked yesterday from the corner and it led to the goal. It speaks volumes about the our inability for proper defending from set pieces. Time and again I feel this has been brutally exposed by top sides, most notably Chelsea last season and then it has happened on a more consistent basis in the past 4 games or so.

I get your point with feared strikers being able to peel away from defenders easily, but I do think for us now zonal marking is not working so we should try to tweak the system a little bit. That is all.

Even if we were in zonal but if the top strikers like Rooney/Drogba etc have some game intelligence to avoid marking, well then they would get away with it easily as well, too.

There is nothing wrong with Zonal marking. The players are not executing it.

Johnson (who I don't think is a fault), The greek fella and Insua are relatively new to this I'd imagine. Although Insua will know it better he hasn't come to terms with. He still needs to work on the basics.

Carra knows it, but he has been dominated by opposing players especially in the air this season.

All in all though, it is a worry.

See, to me that's interesting crouchinho. For I stated in earlier posts that I do not understand set-piece 'Zonal' marking and I asked for someone more familiar with the concept to explain it in detail. I do understand the basic premise of the system but am struggling with the mechanisms (particularly at set-pieces). In what way, for e.g., can it be optimised? What do we need to change to make it work?

I believe football is a beautiful but simple game so perhaps I'm naive when it comes to systems. I'm not trying to have a row - just seeking insight.

Firstly BBB we need to do the basics right.

That is, if I player enters your zone pick him up. If he drifts through your zone, let him go. Give a teamate a yell to let him know if he hasn't seen the attacker entering his zone.

Don't get caught flat flooted, this is one of the biggest critisisms of zonal marking. Attack the ball in your zone.

Do not be out muscled by your man. Clearly as we are not the biggest of teams at the back, get up early to attack the ball (carra, Insua). If you still loose out due to the height of the attacker. Jump with him, make it hard for him to direct his header by staying goal side.

Do we use zonal marking to protect pepe or does rafa believe it is the best solution to defend set pieces,i myself have no confidence in the system as it has too many flaws ,if you keep the same team game after game then each player knows his role  it would work ,but if you change 3 or 4 players it leads to confusion many a time i have seen carra trying to organise who goes where and the corner or free kick is coming over ,i also think it is easy to shift the blame ,boltons first goal was down to the ball going to the far post and being knocked back there was about 3 bolton players ready for the knock back while we had 3 or 4 players just standing static .pellegrino was brought over to organise zonal marking but we seem to concede more goals than ever . 

Do we use zonal marking to protect pepe or does rafa believe it is the best solution to defend set pieces,I myself have no confidence in the system as it has too many flaws ,if you keep the same team game after game then each player knows his role  it would work ,but if you change 3 or 4 players it leads to confusion many a time I have seen carra trying to organise who goes where and the corner or free kick is coming over ,I also think it is easy to shift the blame ,boltons first goal was down to the ball going to the far post and being knocked back there was about 3 bolton players ready for the knock back while we had 3 or 4 players just standing static .pellegrino was brought over to organise zonal marking but we seem to concede more goals than ever . 

We primarily use zonal marking to defend set-pieces.

The system is not flawed, if that were true you could say the same thing about man to man marking. As each week teams who adopt this system conceed goals up and down the country from set-pieces.

Is it safe to say, LFC-Red, that if "the system is not flawed" then we are just sh*t at executing it? That being the case; it's no wonder teams exploit our weakness a set-pieces. I think it's safe, therefore, to assume that they'll continue to do so.

Now, the thing is, if we know the players are incompetent when it comes to 'zonal making at set-pieces; why do we persist with it? Could we be that much poorer at man to man?

Anyways, I hope we get to grips with defending set-pieces, and soon!

  

Is it safe to say, LFC-Red, that if "the system is not flawed" then we are just sh*t at executing it? That being the case; it's no wonder teams exploit our weakness a set-pieces. I think it's safe, therefore, to assume that they'll continue to do so.

Now, the thing is, if we know the players are incompetent when it comes to 'zonal making at set-pieces; why do we persist with it? Could we be that much poorer at man to man?

Anyways, I hope we get to grips with defending set-pieces, and soon!

  

Thats the thing BBB, our players are probably not incompetent when it comes to zonal marking. But like I said, with the Greek fella, Johnson and Insua coming in at the back. It is a system the defenders will need to be accustomed to. They are going to need time to sort it out, its too early to say whether their incompentent or not. There just not executing it right.

Infact when we defend from set-pieces ALL our players come back to defend. So it isn't just the defence, but they are essential to it, and they are new colleagues.

I think we should persist with it as Rafa has proved over the last five years with our defensive record that zonal marking is not flawed. How many Golden glove awards has Pepe won?

Every year its the same when we concede afew goals, but like i said a while ago our stats stand up against anyones. Its is down to the players to carry out the duties of the system, its through bad concentration or hesitation that were mainly conceding and this will improve AS USUAL. No defensive system is impenetrable.

Up until this weekend I had been fairly neutral on zonal defending but now I think it is not the best way to go.

I say this because it just suddenly occurred to me that Bolton simply outnumbered our defenders at set pieces, putting 2 or even 3 players in one of our "zones" which only had one defender in it. This seems to be a fundamental weakness of the system.

Unless there is more to it that I don't understand...in which case our defenders had better wise up sharpish.

Either way, we look weak at the back at the moment. Carra seems to be having to be in three places at once, or thinks he does, which ends up with him being wrong too.

Not totally convinced Skrtel is the answer either....yes, he is GOOD but not really GREAT in my opinion. In other words, he is a million miles from being as good as some of our all-time greats, at least so far. Perhaps he can get there but I'm not a big fan of his yet at least. And, when all is said and done, if our central defence is not word class we are always going to struggle in some games.

Not totally convinced Skrtel is the answer either....

Expect your door beat down, and all hell to break loose inside your home and then the fires of hell to burn you alive once Skrtel reads this

I still don't feel we should change our system. I've already said my piece on this and don't really want to again, but changing aint going to help. The system works, the players just are not executing and communicating this to what they need to. We have had the best defence over the last few years i feel, so to suddenly change after a few bad games would be a knee-jerk reaction. Just needs improving is all. The players would have to get used to a new system if we changed, and im sure that would be rough to. And then we would have a thread called "Man to Man" with everyone saying why did Rafa change, Zonal is the only way, i never liked Man to Man, etc, etc..

It's just not working for us.

We're dropping so many points and conceding so many goals from set pieces.

It almost promotes a culture where no player sees themself at fault for any goal because it was 'not their area to defend'.

I think it really may be time for change now, and this isn't just a knee-jerk. I feel nervous every time we give a bloody set piece away.

We use a mixture of zonal and man-to-man. Skrtel just lost his man.