Liverpool V's Wigan 2nd January

Give it a couple of weeks.

Come on JD, this is not like you, your our leader we are looking to you for inspiration.

Come on JD, this is not like you, your our leader we are looking to you for inspiration.

No inspiration from me.  Not even the Istanbul final could lift my spirits after tonight's result.

No inspiration from me.  Not even the Istanbul final could lift my spirits after tonight's result.

Jesus Christ, I haven't seen the game ......was it really that bad...

This blind faith in rafa is making us a laughing stock. FFS, the success he has had in cups has come from shoot-outs anyway.

The league is the test of a teams true ability and time after time we fall short and it doesn't look like improving. You can say he's improving the team all the time but Arse and the Mancs are improving at a more rapid rate then us and I bet if you look at the spending of the three clubs in last four years we are much higher than them two!

Same old story, not sharp enough in front of goal. How long more do we have to endure this? Rafa will need to be serious and start doing something about it, no point moaning about it week in week out. For a start he may want to re-visit the training programme, he may want to have intensive training on shooting and passing around the box before the next game and see what comes out of it. At this juncture there's nothing to loose. It's really a joy to watch arse's shooting and passing, particularly around the box (hate to say that but it's true), could it be that they have a far superior and effective training programme compared to us that their players could even dream of where to pass and shoot in their sleep? Besides that, Rafa kept moaning lately that our players are not ruthless enough, well he bought the players himself and why only now he realises that we need to be more ruthless? He should have bought ruthless players in the first place like John Utaka (he scored again this week for a 2nd grade team). He must have missed out watching how the past great Liverpool sides played while the mancs are playing in similar fashion at the moment and winning trophies. Rafa, go go and watch all those old tapes, the winning formula is already there, you just need to get the right players, not necessary big names, with the right training programme and we will be back on track.

Come to think of it and what I can see from the matches so far, Rafa is more of a master tactician than a ruthless and creative manager. How many times in recent games that we have dominated matches by means of dominating spaces on the pitch but not the creativity and ruthlessness to break down the opposition defences. His game plan to the players could be " make sure you don't loose possession, make sure you wait for the right opening, make sure you hold on to the ball, make sure you ................." but not make sure you break down the opposition defence at all cost? Let's not look too far, Kuyt and Voronin playing so far off the box does it not tells us that he wants to dominate the spaces to protect the midfield and extends beyond to the defence.

Our tactics and perhaps training will need to be revamped if we are serious about challenging for the title but first Rafa will need to make sweeping changes to his tactics fast and to quickly abandon his rotation policy (where's Babel today, did he play? No? Why Pennant, isn't Babel more match fit and superior than Pennant? If he misses out on 4th spot at the end of this campaign, I'm sorry to say it'll be Waterloo for him as far as the Yanks are concern.

This blind faith in rafa is making us a laughing stock. FFS, the success he has had in cups has come from shoot-outs anyway.

The league is the test of a teams true ability and time after time we fall short and it doesn't look like improving. You can say he's improving the team all the time but Arse and the Mancs are improving at a more rapid rate then us and I bet if you look at the spending of the three clubs in last four years we are much higher than them two!

Fowler23. What's making us a laughing stock is so called fans booing after a draw in the league!! That's the attitude you expect from clubs that can only dream to achieve what we have.

Tonight was hard to take. And I admit, I'm confused and very frustrated as to why we played tonight and how the team was set up. But the players go over the white line and they are good enough to cause problems for Wigan. And they are the ones that have the nerve to take pens in cup finals remember.

Any other Premiership team would love to swap shoes with us. Any!!

No manager is perfect and managers always learn. Would you like to go back to the days of Houllier, Evans etc?

At this point in time I'm more concerned about so called fans getting on the managers back and him being gone. In turn us taking many steps backwards. And many more years waiting.

Firstly,

Why would we play with only one striker AGAINST wigan AT home??? absolutely stupid mistake there by rafa....and more so when hes playing 2 defensive midfielders in alonso and mascherano...WHY? why are we playing defensive at home against an 18th placed team?? if we were winning 3-0, sure, keep the one striker, and play 2 defensive midfielders. When we're looking to save our season, we play attacking football, not complacent and defensive football....again, rafa's fault...

Secondly,

Why play pennant when babel has been playing his ass off and deserves a regular start???

Thirdly,

Like all of you have said, if we cant CONVINCINGLY beat sides like wigan and derby, we dont deserve to win the league...its as simple as that!!!!

Fourthly,

Like ive been saying all along, we dont have the caliber of players to win us the league....we rely too much on gerrard and torres, and we play with the "hope" that kuyt and crouch will score.

Fifthly,

Our team is not balanced. Theres a massive gap between our top level players, and the next level down. We have players who would not even come close to getting a game at the top clubs...

Rafa??wth should you do now???

Woke up at 05:45 this morning and i had two text messages on my phone. Score updates...the first one was the half-time score of 0-0...DAMN! I deleted that one quickly and went on to read the second one "WITH HOPE IN MY HEART". 1-1 ?? F*uuuuuuuuuck! (And i've been cursing eversince)

I haven't seen the game...and frankly I don't care who started. We could've been playing 11 grannies but we should be able to beat WIGAN...if we can't...we should just forget about the league. This lone striker business pisses me off...WHY RAFA Why did we start in defensive mode against a team fighting relegation?

I might kill "something" today...

I am so disappointed in that Wigan result that i will not comment on the game till I have cooled down.

I am so disappointed in that Wigan result that I will not comment on the game till I have cooled down.

I'll second that!

I could not post last night, I was so mad after the game, mind you I'm not much better this morning.
I have said this for 2 years now, Rafa is a very good cup manager, but does not understand the prem.
Playing 1 up front last night, at home to Wigan, 5 in midfield, come on I'm I missing something here.
This result sums up the negative attitude of Benitez, we all know are best line up is 4 4 2, so why does Rafa
have to change this, I can understand playing 4 5 1 away from home to one of the top sides, but come on
at home to Wigan.
We are now so many points behind the top 2, what little chance to had to gain ground on the top 2, has now gone.
Don't get me wrong, Rafa is a very good manager, but he just cant help messing around with the team.

 The 1st three games in the CL. we where very poor, then Rafa comes out and says we
have to play the last three like one off cup games, and look what we did, we where great.

Something is very wrong at Liverpool, Stevie Heighway and Paco has gone, big fall out with the owners, there is
a lot more to this, than what we are being told.

With hand on my heart, I still believe we have a lot of very very good players, Rafa just has to play the right player
in the right place.

We have the C L. and the FA cup to look forward to. lets hope we have a good run in both for Rafa,s sake.

I feel a little better now.

champions league anyone

I myself had no problems with the formation last night. And I think that although the buck lies with the manager, some fingers need to be pointed at the players.

Back to the formation. I've a couple of questions. Who are the 2 players, who have been scoring, and if being honest the only 2 who look like scoring ? Answer, Gerrard & Torres.

In this 4-4-2 you are restricting the number of goalscoring positions Gerrard can get into due to defensive obligations that come with the territory of a centre midfielder in a 4-4-2. Therefore the solution is to this is to play an extra centre mid player and let the shackles off Gerrard and allow him to get into the box whenever he feels.

Let's face it. Who would you rather have in goalscoring positions at the moment ? Gerrard or Crouch/Voronin/Kuyt. Think that one is a no-brainer. This all coupled by the fact he played 2 "genuine" wingers (We could have a separate argument on the players who should have played in these 2 roles) if Rafa had played a 4-4-2 Mascherano would dhave been terribly exposed and this would have meant less action going forward from Gerrard. I think 4-4-2 is the bog standard formation but given the fact we have 2 players in golscoring form it meant quite a bit of sense to let Gerrard forward at will, hence a formation change.

Whatever which way you people want to look at it. A team at home against Wigan that consists of Gerrard, Alonso, Mascherano, Torres, Carragher etc should have far too much for Wigan REGARDLESS of the formation. And this is where some of the finger need to be pointed at the players who have not performed. Given the players we have, if the only way of beating Wigan at home is if we play a 4-4-2 then we really are in trouble

Also whilst wagging my finger at players if Gerrard (he who cannot and must not be criticised) doesn't simply just tw*t his clearnce straight at Mascherano which fell right into the mighty Titus Bramble then the 3 points would have been ours as Reina had F**k all to do all night.

I think that last comment about Gerrard may have just got me banned from the board on grounds of Blasphemy

champions league anyone

Yes please!

Firstly,

Why would we play with only one striker AGAINST wigan AT home??? absolutely stupid mistake there by rafa....and more so when hes playing 2 defensive midfielders in alonso and mascherano...WHY? why are we playing defensive at home against an 18th placed team?? if we were winning 3-0, sure, keep the one striker, and play 2 defensive midfielders. When we're looking to save our season, we play attacking football, not complacent and defensive football....again, rafa's fault...

Secondly,

Why play pennant when babel has been playing his ass off and deserves a regular start???

Thirdly,

Like all of you have said, if we cant CONVINCINGLY beat sides like wigan and derby, we dont deserve to win the league...its as simple as that!!!!

Fourthly,

Like ive been saying all along, we dont have the caliber of players to win us the league....we rely too much on gerrard and torres, and we play with the "hope" that kuyt and crouch will score.

Fifthly,

Our team is not balanced. Theres a massive gap between our top level players, and the next level down. We have players who would not even come close to getting a game at the top clubs...

Sixthly,

When are you actually going to post something on here when we've won a game? Or do you only have anything to say when it's negative?

4-5-1 is not the reason we drew. Sorry, but it is not. In fact, you have to look at our Center backs. Not our forwards.

Wayne Bridge is reportedly on his way here.

Not an easy day for us Reds ...but I hope we've all calmed the F*** down already.
We just need to take it one game at a time now...just like Rafa said.
Hopefully Chelsea, Arsenal and United will drop some points soon so we can keep them in sight.

YNWA!

I myself had no problems with the formation last night. And I think that although the buck lies with the manager, some fingers need to be pointed at the players.

Back to the formation. I've a couple of questions. Who are the 2 players, who have been scoring, and if being honest the only 2 who look like scoring ? Answer, Gerrard & Torres.

In this 4-4-2 you are restricting the number of goalscoring positions Gerrard can get into due to defensive obligations that come with the territory of a centre midfielder in a 4-4-2. Therefore the solution is to this is to play an extra centre mid player and let the shackles off Gerrard and allow him to get into the box whenever he feels.

Let's face it. Who would you rather have in goalscoring positions at the moment ? Gerrard or Crouch/Voronin/Kuyt. Think that one is a no-brainer. This all coupled by the fact he played 2 "genuine" wingers (We could have a separate argument on the players who should have played in these 2 roles) if Rafa had played a 4-4-2 Mascherano would dhave been terribly exposed and this would have meant less action going forward from Gerrard. I think 4-4-2 is the bog standard formation but given the fact we have 2 players in golscoring form it meant quite a bit of sense to let Gerrard forward at will, hence a formation change.

Whatever which way you people want to look at it. A team at home against Wigan that consists of Gerrard, Alonso, Mascherano, Torres, Carragher etc should have far too much for Wigan REGARDLESS of the formation. And this is where some of the finger need to be pointed at the players who have not performed. Given the players we have, if the only way of beating Wigan at home is if we play a 4-4-2 then we really are in trouble

Also whilst wagging my finger at players if Gerrard (he who cannot and must not be criticised) doesn't simply just tw*t his clearnce straight at Mascherano which fell right into the mighty Titus Bramble then the 3 points would have been ours as Reina had F**k all to do all night.

I think that last comment about Gerrard may have just got me banned from the board on grounds of Blasphemy

Good post..not far off the mark at all. Formation was not a problem, quality of players on pitch to beat Wigan was not the issue. The issue was the players not being clinical and making basis mistakes. Could and should have scored a couple more if the final pass was right or finishing was better. As for their goal. It was a clear mistakt by Captain Marvel not clearnig the ball. If he had properly then it would not have been a goal.
So for all you so called "fans" Rafa cannot be singled out for blame on this one or at city - enough chances but not clinical.
As for the title....The point is we have a team we should expect to beat Wigan, Birmingham etc...but to win the league.Get real.. We have 1 x 20 million player 2 if you include home grown Gerrard....Manure have at least 4 or 5, Chelski a whole team of them. Arsenal not many, but I think everyone would agree Wenger is the excpetion . he buys all the young plaeys at 15,16 etc and brings those young players through.
So where it counts the REAL QUALITY we have not got enough and until we have 2-3 more grade A game changers rather than 4-5 grade B good players we will always be 3rd, 4th etc.

"A non-doer is very often a critic-that is, someone who sits back and watches
doers, and then waxes philosophically about how the doers are doing. It's easy to
be a critic, but being a doer requires effort, risk, and change."
Dr. Wayne W. Dyer

Think we need a reality check and to take stock of what it is Rafa is trying to do here!! It took people like Wenger and Ferguson 5 years at least to get things on track and look at the rewards they are reaping now!!

I was as disappointed as anyone last night but we need to be realistic. Granted, we should beat teams like Wigan but opposition teams are allowed to have good games and if it wasn't for Chris Kirkland and a pretty solid defensive performance we would have won. Not to mention a decent strike from Titus "Bumble"!!!

Rafa is the right man for the job and as has been said on previous posts the players need to stand up and start to take responsibility. I do believe however that we are moving in the right direction!!

Fowler23. What's making us a laughing stock is so called fans booing after a draw in the league!! That's the attitude you expect from clubs that can only dream to achieve what we have.

Tonight was hard to take. And I admit, I'm confused and very frustrated as to why we played tonight and how the team was set up. But the players go over the white line and they are good enough to cause problems for Wigan. And they are the ones that have the nerve to take pens in cup finals remember.

Any other Premiership team would love to swap shoes with us. Any!!

No manager is perfect and managers always learn. Would you like to go back to the days of Houllier, Evans etc?

At this point in time I'm more concerned about so called fans getting on the managers back and him being gone. In turn us taking many steps backwards. And many more years waiting.

I can name you three Premiership teams who would feel no reason at all to want to swap shoes with us I'm afraid.

I can name you three Premiership teams who would feel no reason at all to want to swap shoes with us I'm afraid.

Apologies mate. I forgot to mention in general history - not on current league form.