Do we need a sports psychologist right now?

A piece that appeared in the Daily Post in October regarding Pako’s departure

JAMIE CARRAGHER has dismissed suggestions the departure of Pako Ayesteran has contributed to Liverpool’s downturn in form – and believes anyone that does is “looking for excuses”.
Since Ayesteran left his post as assistant manager at the end of August following an irrevocable breakdown in his working relationship with Rafael Benitez, Liverpool have won just three of eight games and slipped to fourth in the Premier League.

Ayesteran’s exit was formally confirmed at the weekend, although the Spaniard will remain contracted at Anfield until the end of June next year to prevent him falling into the immediate clutches of any rival clubs.
But while Carragher believes Ayesteran was “outstanding” as Liverpool’s fitness coach, the centre-back has revealed the footballing side of training has remained unchanged since the departure.
And the 29-year-old has rubbished rumours Benitez’s methods have been adversely affected by the loss of his former trusted lieutenant.
“Gerard Houllier had the same thing thrown at him when Patrice Bergues left, and in that case I do think that had a big impact,” said Carragher.

“But the difference now is that Rafa Benitez is a coach, while Gerard Houllier was more of simply a manager and observed coaching rather than actually taking it.
“I got on great with Pako, he was superb at his job and he had a great relationship with the manager, but he was the fitness coach.
“Rafa is the coach. At the end of the day, we’ve lost a fitness coach, not a football coach, although it’s a fitness coach who was outstanding at his job.

“But it’s still the manager picking the team. Rafa is the football man and that hasn’t changed, and I’m sure the results since Pako has left is just a coincidence.
“I can understand why people might look at that. People are always looking for reasons why a team isn’t playing so well, but in the training sessions we are still doing the same things.
“If people do look at Pako leaving as the reason for our loss in form, I think they are looking for excuses really.”


Jamie has hit the nail on the head when he said “people are looking for excuses really.” Whenever we have a downturn in form every single aspect of the club is analysed, from whether the players feel loved enough to what the food is like at the training ground!
Frankly it is a lot more straightforward than that as some of the players and management should be asking themselves “am I giving a 100%?”, these people are proffesionals who are the best at what they do (except Voronin obviously!) and shouldn’t need molly coddling into giving their all, christ I think every fan to a man (or Woman ) would pay the club to have the honour of wearing that red shirt nevermind being given £50k a week for the privelige!

At the moment the club is in turmoil and far from blaming the players I believe the reason for our innocous form is down to the management, no not just Rafa because as if you read some of my other posts you will know I am a Rafa believer, but also because of the owners and their shambolic attempts at trying to run a “soccer franchise” from the other side of the Atlantic.
How on earth can we expect players to perform at the top of their game when we have such uncertainty at the club?.... Is the boss staying? Will we have any new signings? Will we have new owners? Because if no money is paid by February we will no longer be owned by Cagney and Lacey but The Royal Bank of Scotland will take up the reigns!

I have never in all my years following the reds had the embarrassment to see the club become a magnet for all the football rumours we have had chucked at us lately and until the ownership and management are ‘cemented’ into place so no one can be under any illusion who owns/manages our great club we will have a few more farces acted out in the media on a daily basis.
Sort that out and iam sure everything will begin to fall into place.


Oh by the way Xavi Valero our esteemed goalkeeping coach is a master in Sports Psychology apparently so if as it looks like they are getting help already then it doesn’t seem to be helping their game much, unless of course he only works with Pepe? And then I would say he is doing a wonderful job.

“Xavi Valero took over the post of Goalkeeping Coach after Jose Ochotorena moved back to Valencia in 2007.
Valero began his professional career as a goalkeeper with Castellon in 1992, before moving onto Mallorca, Logrones, Murcia, Cordoba and Recreativo de Huelva in Spain. He also spent a short time with Wrexham where he put into practice the English he had studied at the University of Castellon.

He holds a Master in Goalkeeper Coaching from the Spanish Football Federation (RFEF) and a Master of Sports Psychology from Madrid Univeristy (UNED). Valero previously worked with Jose Ochotorena at Logrones.”

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/team/squad/valero/

Top post Glenbuck - very clarifying even if JC doesn't mention the emotional bonds that Pako cemented with various players (inc Xabi and StevieG) during his time.

Wish JC would come out with a similarly "calming of the waters" / back up for Rafa article at such at important time for him as winning his 500th cap tonight... and you know what - I think he will.
 

Maybe that is what Carra thinks and i fully respect that but just look at how the players looked during and after games before he left and compare it to now it clearly has changed. Its not just pako having left but rather that combined with a number of other things.

Hopefully now that Carra has spoke about Pakos departure and the fact that the football training has changed little since he left that we can put this topic to bed. Rafa will turn this around. If pako was so instrumental why is he not a manager himself in his own right?

What does the mentality of the players have to do with the football training?

What does the mentality of the players have to do with the football training?

Not a lot, unless you make genuine friendships with players as you do it...

Not a lot, but peopl

Hopefully now that Carra has spoke about Pakos departure and the fact that the football training has changed little since he left that we can put this topic to bed. Rafa will turn this around. If pako was so instrumental why is he not a manager himself in his own right?

Maybe waiting for a call from Maureen?

Donrafael
So I was right about the tw*t bit... at least the post/thread wasn't totally wasted.

Have you ever heard of sports psycologists? or even how the likes of Tiger Woods, Federrer, Alonso, England and Australian rugby teams, most NBA teams, most elite track-athletes... but not footballers on the whole (although I am sure a few do on the quiet)... use them, considering the pressure they are under on a daily basis?

So what exactly are you taking the piss out of Mr mature Oldred? ...when our own players are often splaterred on our tv screens and papers, even more than some of the world-stars I've mentioned above...

Nice to see the taboo, piss taking coming through though, as I thought it would... nice one fella.

Another crack at a decent answer maybe now sir? ..or too ashamed - come on - have a try at least?

So I will respond.

Firstly don't call me a tw*t.  I haven't been abusive to you and am entitled to my opinion.  Take the piss by all means but leave the abuse to bitter and twisted people e.g. Evertonians.

Most of the world stars mentioned above operate in Sports which involve one to one encounters, not team sports.  In that case mental state is the difference between being a world champion and an also ran.

Not that some of the previous managers at Liverpool have not used a bit of 'psychology' in motivating the players.  As already mentioned Bill Shankly was an expert at this.  As for pressure I will revert to what Bill Shankly said when asked if he was under pressure.  When you have a wife and family and can't put food on the table, that's pressure.

If we do not already have a sports psychologist at the club, which would surprise me the amount of staff modern clubs have, then I don't think we should go down that road.  What we need is an assistant manager to take some of the workload off Rafa.  He/She could do the psychological bit.

I think it would be disappointing if there is not motivation enough in just pulling on a Liverpool shirt.  If we have reached that point it is a sad day for Liverpool.

So I will respond.

Firstly don't call me a tw*t.  I haven't been abusive to you and am entitled to my opinion.  Take the piss by all means but leave the abuse to bitter and twisted people e.g. Evertonians.

Most of the world stars mentioned above operate in Sports which involve one to one encounters, not team sports.  In that case mental state is the difference between being a world champion and an also ran.

Not that some of the previous managers at Liverpool have not used a bit of 'psychology' in motivating the players.  As already mentioned Bill Shankly was an expert at this.  As for pressure I will revert to what Bill Shankly said when asked if he was under pressure.  When you have a wife and family and can't put food on the table, that's pressure.

If we do not already have a sports psychologist at the club, which would surprise me the amount of staff modern clubs have, then I don't think we should go down that road.  What we need is an assistant manager to take some of the workload off Rafa.  He/She could do the psychological bit.

I think it would be disappointing if there is not motivation enough in just pulling on a Liverpool shirt.  If we have reached that point it is a sad day for Liverpool.

Oldred, apologies for the tw*t bit, it was out of order. Perdon.

I see Rafa is saying today, that team has mental issues at the moment - not technical... funny that.

...Don you are right about the mental difficulties facing the team at the minute but i do not agree with the personal issues that you suggest the players are suffering from. The mental issues which i think Rafa is talking about is the lack of confidence that the team and in particular the strikers are suffering from and which in turn is seriously affecting our performances and results. For me off the field events and personal problems dont come into the equation when playing football. Fair enough if something tragic like a family member has died the day before a game or something but usually when I play football at least , I dont think about what is happening in my life one bit ....im playing football for gods sake! therefore thats what im thinking about. Just think the last time you played footy down the astro or whatever ... your not thinking about anythingelse whilst playing are you ? ...and i dont see why because they are proffesionals it should be any different. If anything they should be more focused on the game and I hate it when players give excuses of off the field problems for thier poor form. It is just a lame excuse in my opinion. I didnt like Gerrards recent comments about the off field problems with the owner affecting the team ....it shouldnt. Fair enough he is entitled to express his opinion on the matter and I would back him to do so in order to speak out and back Rafa but to claim its affecting the team just dosent cut it with me.

I personally wouldnt agree with getting a sports physcologist ......i am personally of the opinion they need a kick up the arse ....they are playing for Liverpool.

The example you refer to - Gerrard - is not the type of player who responds to that (kicks up the arse, quite the contrary).

He is a "high maintenance" player - he is in fact well known for it... Houllier used to put his arm around him all the time, as did Pako... Rafa doesn't feel he has to. Net Net - we don't get the best out of the chap.

To be fair , Gerrard needs to sort it out if thats the case and get his head toegether. He is the captain of our club and should be the one leading by example and not someone who needs 'an arm round him all the time'. I just dont understand this whole concept , what dose Gerrard want ?  , to be told every five minutes that he is the most important player at the club ? ..... the fans singing his name every 5 minutes should and i think is enough.

I am not having a pop at him by the way , as i dont feel the point made reflects the strict truth , everybody keeps saying Pako was the one who had the connection with the players ... how do we know this ? ...I always thought he was more of a tactician than a player liason type feller.


....basically i just dont believe that the reason we are playing badly this season is anything to do with the owners saga or Pako leaving. Maybe , just maybe it will affect some players and i must admit Gerrard is a sensitive lad but the whole team ? .... i just dont buy it.

From the way I see it, we may need a "master tactician" more than a "psychologist". Rafa is too analytical and conservative with his tactics to the extend that he's kiling the players' confidence. Players are paid by thousands of pounds every week to perform and they jolly well perform up to mark.

No we won't need a sports psychologist right now, the players just need a kick up the backside!

No we won't need a sports psychologist right now, the players just need a kick up the backside!

But Stevie G might cry or ask for a transfer... some players DO NOT work with kicks up the culo... and our Captain is one of them... another is Torres ...and another is Babel... I'm sure there are more in our dressing room.

To be fair , Gerrard needs to sort it out if thats the case and get his head toegether. He is the captain of our club and should be the one leading by example and not someone who needs 'an arm round him all the time'. I just dont understand this whole concept , what dose Gerrard want ?  , to be told every five minutes that he is the most important player at the club ? ..... the fans singing his name every 5 minutes should and I think is enough.

I am not having a pop at him by the way , as I dont feel the point made reflects the strict truth , everybody keeps saying Pako was the one who had the connection with the players ... how do we know this ? ...I always thought he was more of a tactician than a player liason type feller.


....basically I just dont believe that the reason we are playing badly this season is anything to do with the owners saga or Pako leaving. Maybe , just maybe it will affect some players and I must admit Gerrard is a sensitive lad but the whole team ? .... I just dont buy it.

Think of it this way. You have a sensitive manager who puts up a front and seems stubborn but under it all hes just another normal person doing his job. All the speculation around the club grows and grows and every game you see the look on the managers face, he is bordering tears and cant even do his job properly due to not having the backing he needs and fear of being fired.

This added to seeing your captain feeling the pressure affects the dressing room majorly and results not going your way just makes it all the worse.

everybody keeps saying Pako was the one who had the connection with the players ... how do we know this ? ...I always thought he was more of a tactician than a player liason type feller.

Read this book.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Season-Brink-portrait-Benitezs-Liverpool/dp/0752879367/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=gateway&qid=1201815826&sr=8-1

Tells you all you need to know about Pako's complimentary role to Rafa - away from the pure fitness coach role... and I've had it verified as true - but that's another story...

But Stevie G might cry or ask for a transfer... some players DO NOT work with kicks up the culo... and our Captain is one of them... another is Torres ...and another is Babel... I'm sure there are more in our dressing room.

Only winners accept punishments, because punishments make them go that extra step further! I'm sure Stevie G would accept punishment.. he's not bigger than the club whether he likes it or not!

Only winners accept punishments, because punishments make them go that extra step further! I'm sure Stevie G would accept punishment.. he's not bigger than the club whether he likes it or not!

That's the thing, sometimes he is made to feel bigger than the club, because the team that represents it is built around the fact that HE wants to play in the middle... when it is more than proved that the TEAM is more effective when he plays on the wing/libero allowing for Xabi or Masch to start games too...

For me it has always been a no brainer - but the press and StevieG himself think otherwise.  Rafa needs to put THINGS back in their place, for the sake of the team... and must have a zero tolerance of his Captain's probable sulking.

When a guy becomes too big at a club, it isn't always a good thing, no matter the natural ability - e.g. Torres & Atletico de Madrid (local lad and captain) - since his departure the team is competing in Europe and for a CL place for the first time in many years... (note qualified for europe through Inter Toto - Nando had already left).

I love StevieG and think he is a fantastic footballer, but he certainly ISN'T bigger than what is best for the TEAM and the Club... anyway he plays it both ways too... when it comes to England doesn't he?

^ what did fergie do to beckham, and van nistleroy when they were getting big heads......he showed them the door, and the mancs have never looked back since.

just a thought....

^ what did fergie do to beckham, and van nistleroy when they were getting big heads......he showed them the door, and the mancs have never looked back since.

just a thought....

A very decent thought at that!

Nobody wants him out to be honest, but if the team isn't delivering or being optimised to fit around him... and then HE doesn't deliver either... well what are you supposed to think?

IRWT

^we'll probabally be burned at the stake for having this conversation...

Its clear to all premiership sides that we have to have one defensive CM and one attacking CM. Our main Def CMs are MAsch and Xabi obviously. But if you look at Arsenal, mancs and chelski, their counterpart for stevie G's role, fabregas, scholes(anderson now) and essien are all completeley different players to stevie. They all stay in their pivot role in the center of the park and spray the ball forward to the strikers and wingers.

While this problem might also be attributed to the lack of quality of our wingers or strikers, I have the belief for a while now (before the slump in form) that stevie is more of a liability in midfield. I love and admire stevie the same as the next supporter, but this is what I feel and my honest opinion.

The right is his place.

But then with him on the right we have no pennant ever playing no benayoun ever playing. They seriously wont get a start and will both become cup and late sub kind of players. Stevie will keep someone out of the team wherever he plays so either way its the same problem.