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      The Official Paul Tomkins Thread

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      stuey
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      Re: The Official Paul Tomkins Thread
      Reply #276: Jun 08, 2009 11:07:08 am
      I can well imagine Mr. Benitez reading this article with a knowing smile upon his face, Paul gives us an insight into the intricate complexities of team selection and all that involves - engrossing read.
      « Last Edit: Jun 08, 2009 12:59:09 pm by Venison 86 »
      ayrton77
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      Re: The Official Paul Tomkins Thread
      Reply #277: Jun 08, 2009 11:13:25 am
      Some interesting figures, but I feel the article as a whole just confirms a lot of what we already knew.

      We had a fantastic season with lots of squad players putting in top performances, but the injuries to our key players eventually proved critical to us missing out on the title.

      It bodes extremely well for next season however, as Paul touches upon at the end, as I find it unlikely that we will have quite as many of our top players out as long.
      The Invisible Man
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      Re: The Official Paul Tomkins Thread
      Reply #278: Jun 08, 2009 11:28:07 am
      Some interesting figures, but I feel the article as a whole just confirms a lot of what we already knew.


      Wasn't that the point? It confirms something we knew but didn't necessarily know why we knew it!
      stuey
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      Re: The Official Paul Tomkins Thread
      Reply #279: Jun 08, 2009 11:36:19 am

      Wasn't that the point? It confirms something we knew but didn't necessarily know why we knew it!
      Thats why I described it as "engrossing."
      Ross
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      Re: The Official Paul Tomkins Thread
      Reply #280: Jun 29, 2009 10:08:24 am
      Tomkins on Johnson and transfers

      While there are a number of journalists I like and respect, I find it's best for my peace of mind to not focus too much on transfer speculation in the newspapers.



      I'm sure if you combined just a few different reports, you'd conclude that Liverpool are losing the entire first team to various other clubs, and buying 179 players in their place. While there are good journalists, there are those who appear to have been sampling the kind of mushrooms that aren't really advisable to consume.
       
      Obviously there will be truth in some stories; but I think I once saw a stat that only about 10 per cent of transfer gossip tallies with subsequent transfers.
       
      Other stories may be true but for one reason or another don't come to fruition, but you do suspect some journos have an 'invent and submit' button on their keyboards that automatically throws a few random names and prices together in time for the print deadline.
       
      For my sanity, I find it's best to just wait and see who arrives and who leaves.
       
      I don't want any player the manager wants to keep to be sold, and I want him to get his first choice targets, but it's rarely that simple. Stirring the pot is what the media has to do, to hit its own targets. Agents also benefit from creating unrest.
       
      Whatever happens will happen. If anyone genuinely wants to leave Liverpool, then I won't lose any sleep; the club needs those who want to stay and fight for that 19th league title. And I'm sure most do.
       
      Likewise, if anyone Liverpool are trying to sign wants to earn more money elsewhere rather than compete in the Champions League and contest the title, then however gifted they are, they are no loss. I want players like Fernando Torres, who eschew silly money to be part of a top-class team and play for fans who adore him.
       
      I understand the desires of those targets who want regular first-team football, which is rarely guaranteed at a top four club. This summer is vital for a number of internationals, with the World Cup on the horizon – where achievement is the ambition, not money.
       
      But Liverpool need those determined to prove themselves in the year beforehand, even if it means fighting for a place in the team.
       
      Then there's the issue of transfer fees, and what a player is 'worth'.
       
      As each individual is different, there is no set value. It's about how much the selling club need to hold out for, and how much the buying club are prepared to pay. If supposedly overpriced signings lead to success, then they are worth the money. Does Alex Ferguson care that people said Michael Carrick "wasn't an £18m player"?
       
      Of course, a transfer merry-go-round appears to have been started in motion by events in Spain.
       
      Real Madrid, humiliated by Liverpool last season and envious of Barcelona's historic and über-stylish success, have gone into overdrive, spending more than the entire cost of the current Liverpool squad on just two players, and their largesse won't stop there.
       
      The era of the galactico has returned to the Bernabeu, and the repercussions are being felt across Europe.
       
      Chelsea are threatening a return to big spending, having slipped to the third best team in the land; Manchester United have £80m for Ronaldo and AC Milan are flush with £60m for Kaka; and Manchester City are determined to be taken seriously, with more money than anyone else, but hampered by a fairly mediocre recent history and no Champions League football to offer.
       
      As a result, at a time of widespread economic belt-tightening, several clubs appear to be abandoning anything that holds up their metaphorical trousers.
       
      The knock-on effect seems to be general price rises, and an even more frenzied summer of speculation than usual.
       
      The hidden factor, as ever, is that of wages. Liverpool pay very good wages, but have only the fourth highest wage bill. Manchester United and Chelsea pay between £30m and £60m more on wages per season (based on the most recently published financial figures).
       
      If you want a £30m player, you also have to set aside £30m for the wages of his full contract.
       
      The way they are going, Man City, with their apparently bottomless pit of money, will also overtake Liverpool in this area, if they haven't already.
       
      The trump cards that the Reds have are: a sixth-successive season in the Champions League; a manager voted the best around by the readers of newspapers in several major European countries; a side capable of challenging for the Premier League title; and a cachet that, with all due respect to City and even Chelsea, puts the club up there with the likes of Barcelona, AC Milan, Bayern Munich and Juventus, thanks to serious European success and a massive global fan-base. You can add Anfield and the Kop, too.
       
      Who, then?
       
      Predictably, I am often asked who I think Liverpool should sign. Like most fans I have my favourites: those who look like good players to me.
       
      But this is always the problem with any fan's wishes – it's almost the dreaded 'Director of Football' approach: enforcing your tastes on the manager, telling him (in your mind, or on a forum) what's best for his team.
       
      It is the man in charge of the side who knows best what he wants to add to the system, and so my wish is always that the Liverpool manager gets the players he wants, whether they are ones I happen to appreciate or not.
       
      Because let's face it, not all star names will fit the system, and sometimes the manager and his scouts will have spotted something in a more unsung player.
       
      Look at Dirk Kuyt: I can think of far more vaunted wide-men, and yet he was the sixth top scorer in the entire Premier League last season, and the league's sixth top assist-maker, with not one single winger ahead of him. Given that he doesn't take the corners and free-kicks that help players rack up assists, that's a great contribution, even before considering his work-rate and general team-ethic. He's not flash, but he delivers.
       
      The manager and his scouts will check a player's background, his attitude, his lifestyle. They will be the ones looking into the player's eyes in a negotiation, to find out what motivates him. Bill Shankly always preferred players with less skill if they had more character. A lot has changed in the game, but core attributes, like commitment and temperament, remain crucial. Not tricks on YouTube.
       
      We can all drool over superstars, but it can do more harm than good to bring in a top player who'll disrupt the great team spirit; earning big wages – or rather, failing to 'earn' them. Again, you can't quantify such things, but that's why good managers try to buy strong characters who won't upset the apple cart.
       
      Of course, a manager can also try and find the solution from within the squad. We might think a certain position needs addressing, but he might know who's ready to step up.
       
      Emiliano Insua developed brilliantly last season, and let's not forget Yossi Benayoun's transformation from squad player to one of the league's brightest lights from February onwards.
       
      In the coming season, Ryan Babel might yet be considered for more time in his favoured position behind the main striker – that's something only the staff will know. Then there's David Ngog and Krisztian Nemeth, both of whom could be ready sooner rather than later, and also Lauri Dalla Valle and Daniel Pacheco, who also have bright futures ahead of them.
       
      My point always comes back to the manager knowing best. Not only does he have a better footballing brain than any of us (and if he didn't, we'd be in the role instead), he also has an infinitely greater amount of information relating to his current team, his budding youth prodigies and his potential targets.
       
      By contrast, we're looking through a fog.
       
      It doesn't mean that every signing he makes will work out, or that every promising kid he rates will make the grade. But it does mean he is in a far better position to make what are always going to be judgment calls: who to buy, who to promote to the first team, and when.
       
      Also, Liverpool are getting to the stage now where there's less scope for improvement. Certainly the spine is hard to better; I wouldn't swap these players for anyone. It's hard to find top players prepared to play second fiddle, so maybe an impact sub is better to find than a bigger name.
       
      Above all else, anyone who can improve the Reds' First XI could be worth his weight in gold. You pay whatever it takes to make your team better, within your budget.
       
      Glen Johnson fits the bill of what I've been talking about: someone who can add pace, skill and crossing ability from right-back; doubling up as a winger, which a) allows Kuyt to drift into the box and b) takes advantage of the massive space the Dutchman's movement can open up.
       
      Johnson's also big enough, and quick enough, to do a job at both ends. His defending is certainly underrated, perhaps because he was in a high-profile team when still very inexperienced (and reputations stick), and because, as an overlapping full-back, he will naturally be caught out of position at times; after all, you can't be in two places at once.
       
      All the same, defenders tend to improve under Rafa Benítez, and at 24, Johnson has plenty of scope to get even better.
       
      I'm still a big fan of Alvaro Arbeloa (who has also done very well on the left, particularly when man-marking), but Johnson is the perfect overlapping full-back – and if there's one thing Liverpool have lacked in comparison with the other top four teams, it's the ability to get in behind the opposition with very quick marauding defenders who become wingers when in possession.
       
      Players like Evra, Boswinga (early last season), Sagna and Cole have been as crucial to the good results of those teams as some of their more illustrious names. Arbeloa, by contrast, is more of a defender who gets forward, rather than one who naturally excels in the final third.
       
      Again, there are no guarantees that players who improve the team in theory will do so in practice. They could get injured, or homesick, or wilt under the pressure of a massive club; you just hope that good judgement comes with good luck.
       
      In the case of Johnson, he's matured, having been too young when moving to Chelsea, and crucially, is improving rapidly. But his talent has been there for all to see since his West Ham days.
       
      He has plenty of big-game experience, and unlike some players, hasn't wilted when playing for England, all of which suggests he can handle the pressure.
       
      The fact that Chelsea wanted to buy him again for four times what they sold him for, and that other top clubs were interested, shows his worth. Whatever people think he was worth, others were prepared to meet the asking price.
       
      And adding a new dimension to the Reds' play could yet prove priceless.
       
      redkenny
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      Re: The Official Paul Tomkins Thread
      Reply #281: Jun 29, 2009 01:10:03 pm
      Tomkins on Johnson and transfers

      I'm sure if you combined just a few different reports, you'd conclude that Liverpool are losing the entire first team to various other clubs, and buying 179 players in their place. While there are good journalists, there are those who appear to have been sampling the kind of mushrooms that aren't really advisable to consume.
       

       

      Very funny and even more true!
      stuey
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      Re: The Official Paul Tomkins Thread
      Reply #282: Jun 29, 2009 04:58:05 pm
      Spot on and from the first observation about the mushrooms and some journalists unerringly accurate,as the man says any player who feels that his future lies outside Anfield will be despatched as soon as - we only want people with a genuine desire for the club its supporters and the city.
      Ross
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      Re: The Official Paul Tomkins Thread
      Reply #283: Jul 28, 2009 12:45:27 pm
      Tomkins: Remember me?



      One of the most interesting aspects of this year's pre-season has been the chance to see some players who weren't really featuring last year, including some who many didn't expect to still be at the club.

      Some forgotten men now have a chance to stake a claim, their slates wiped clean. And Liverpool have quite a few of these men who are like the proverbial 'new signings'.
       
      The first name discussed has to be Andriy Voronin. Not many senior players go out on loan and come back to stake a claim.
       
      Voronin could yet be an important addition to the squad. I was extremely impressed with him during his first few months at the club in 2007-08, before injury struck and he lost his form. He was the star of that pre-season, and shone in the opening month once the campaign proper got underway.
       
      Since then he's had an excellent season back in Germany, on loan at Hertha Berlin, and rediscovered some confidence and belief. He may never be ultra-prolific, but he does a bit of everything, and has good game intelligence.
       
      I was encouraged to hear Rafa Benítez saying that the Ukrainian wanted to fight for his place. Voronin is a good technical player, who can create as well as score, but he has to fit in with the Liverpool work ethic, and keep motivated even though the first choice pairing will be Steven Gerrard and Fernando Torres. So far he seems determined to be as good as his word.
       
      The same applies to Ryan Babel, who has looked very determined ahead of the new season. He's a player whose game hasn't quite clicked together yet, but who has so many of the assets that can do real damage to the opposition.
       
      I still think there's a very special player in there, but it's a question of how to bring that out of him, and whether he has the natural confidence to reach his full potential.
       
      He was limited mostly to cameo roles last season, and even in most of his starts he's flitted in and out of games. His next challenge has to be to assert himself on proceedings, and not disappear for periods of matches.
       
      But with a lot of the football going through Gerrard and Torres, and the right side likely to be very strong with Kuyt or Benayoun and Glen Johnson getting forward, it's unlikely he'll regularly find himself in a position to dominate games. He has to make an impression in the early minutes, and then will find the ball coming his way a lot more often.
       
      Hopefully the other left winger, Albert Riera, will now be used to the rigours of a 'full English' (season, that is, although maybe the breakfast too), and he's more experienced and tactically aware than Babel. I'm a big fan of Riera's quick and clever passing, and his close control, but Babel has that explosive pace that can get in behind defences, and, you suspect, potential to score the greater amount of goals. It'll be interesting to see who prevails.
       
      Another attacker, Krisztian Nemeth, missed most of last season through injury, just when it looked like he would force his way into the squad. He has good feet and a quick brain, but maybe lacks the pace to make an impact at a young age; it tends to be the real speedsters who break through quickest, while the thinkers come of age later on.
       
      Nemeth looks to be more of a natural finisher than David Ngog, but the young Frenchmen has an excellent all-round game: pace, technique, a centre-forward's height and improving strength. I had doubts that he was ready in his early games last season, but by the end of the campaign he had come on leaps and bounds. He still has a lot to learn about English football, and, at just 20, the game in general, but I think he's a very special player in the making.
       
      Philipp Degen has yet to even get started, and the arrival of Glen Johnson won't help his chances of being a regular. But if he can stay fit, he can only be a positive addition to the ranks; another option, to bolster the squad and provide both cover and competition.
       
      Certainly not a forgotton man by any stretch of the imagination, Fernando Torres missed half of last season's league campaign, while Daniel Agger missed even more football. These two will surely add to the points haul at Anfield if they stay fit this time around.
       
      Everyone knows how good those two are. But I don't think footballers should ever be put into strict categories when they've yet to prove themselves: 'rubbish', 'flop', 'not good enough for Liverpool', etc.
       
      When someone has left the club I'm more prepared to use those terms, because a final conclusion can be reached and a line drawn under their time at Anfield. But while they are still at the club, there is always scope to improve. You have to keep an open mind.
       
      I spent a lot of time between the summer of 2007 (dating back to before he even arrived) and last winter defending Yossi Benayoun to some critics. Not every signing can have the wow factor upon arrival, and not every player will get the regular opportunities in the team to find his groove.
       
      It depends on what you expect from a player. Not everyone is destined to be a first-team regular. So everyone has to be judged in the correct context. If you compare everyone with Gerrard or Torres, then of course 99 per cent of players will fall short. But all successful sides have their less glamourous individuals, particularly so in the squad age.
       
      In the case of Benayoun, I saw a perfect squad player. Clever, mobile, skilful, and with an eye for goal. For the money, it was a deal that made perfect sense.
       
      Was he special enough to be a shoo-in back in 2007? I didn't think so.
       
      But then in the latter half of 2008-09 it just clicked. He scored against Wigan, then produced a storming cameo against Chelsea; suddenly he was flying. For the last three months of the season he was one of the stars of the Premiership.
       
      So players can come good. Does that mean that the likes of Bruno Cheyrou or Sean Dundee should have been kept in case they eventually looked the part? Of course not.
       
      Managers have to be trusted to make those calls. He has to decide if someone is not good enough, or that he is, but just hasn't shown it yet. That's where seeing them in training every day helps, although eventually ability at Melwood has to be translated to the first team.
       
      Benítez's judgement was questioned over Benayoun. People said he was wrong to sign him, and wrong to select him at the start of this year. And that's the crazy thing about being a football manager: you have to believe that you're right, before it's proven, and knowing full well that there are no guarantees, even if the player in question does possess the necessary quality.
       
      But there are two reasons why I trust Benítez's judgement. The first is that no matter how many players he has bought (and people point to those who didn't work out), he has consistently improved the first team.
       
      The other reason is the speed with which he has acted when someone hasn't been what he was looking for. There was a decisiveness over the way he shipped out Robbie Keane after just six months, while players like Jan Kromkamp and Mark Gonzalez, who appeared to have pretty good pedigrees, were not kept for much longer.
       
      So there's a good chance Liverpool can improve on last season with the players already in the ranks. Of course, it's a rare campaign when every major player stays fit for 10 months. But a bit more luck in this sense than last season would be welcome.
       
      I don't see many players coming back at Manchester United, the Reds' obvious rivals for the title, although Owen Hargreaves being back in action is a clear benefit. Rio Ferdinand missed a few games last season, but otherwise they weren't too hamstrung. Chelsea, however, had a few major long-term absentees, such as Essien and Drogba, so they could automatically be stronger in 2009-10. Much depends on how their new manager fares, but Chelsea seem naturally well-organised.
       
      Manchester City will be a completely unknown quantity at this stage, with so many new players – players we know well, just not how they'll knit together – and Arsenal have a way of playing that means they can never be written off for a place in the top three, even if the title looks beyond them.
       
      Of course, there are also the players in all of the major squads who are as yet unheard of outside their own fanbase, who will make a name for themselves.
       
      At Liverpool, Martin Kelly (as a full-back, in his formative years) and Daniel Pacheco seem two good bets to me, as technically good, pacy players, while Mikel San Jose and Jay Spearing also look more than capable of doing a job at this early stage of their careers, albeit in positions of greater responsibility.
       
      Last year it was Yossi Benayoun who provided the biggest surprise, with Emiliano Insua the youngster who progressed the most. It'll be interesting to see who fills those roles this season.

      http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/NG165194090728-0808.htm
      Brian78
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      Re: The Official Paul Tomkins Thread
      Reply #284: Jul 28, 2009 01:15:18 pm
      No doubt some of the anti Voronin group will have a change of heart after reading that article 
      crouchinho
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      Re: The Official Paul Tomkins Thread
      Reply #285: Jul 28, 2009 01:26:03 pm
      No doubt some of the anti Voronin group will have a change of heart after reading that article 

      Hopefully.
      The Invisible Man
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      Re: The Official Paul Tomkins Thread
      Reply #286: Jul 28, 2009 01:39:56 pm
      No doubt some of the anti Voronin group will have a change of heart after reading that article 


      He's nothing amazing, but he can do a job.
      The Invisible Man
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      Re: The Official Paul Tomkins Thread
      Reply #287: Jul 28, 2009 01:41:33 pm
      Paul's new book - anyone got one and read it yet?


      http://www.paultomkins.com/redrace.html

      heimdall
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      Re: The Official Paul Tomkins Thread
      Reply #288: Jul 28, 2009 02:39:18 pm

      He's nothing amazing, but he can do a job.

      the jury's still out on him, he had a good season in Deutschland so lets see if he can produce the goods in the premiership.
      ShanerB
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      Re: The Official Paul Tomkins Thread
      Reply #289: Jul 28, 2009 02:53:22 pm
      No doubt some of the anti Voronin group will have a change of heart after reading that article 

      I don't think so. IMO I've seen enough of Voronin to think that he's just not good enough, much in the same way that people saw enough of the likes of Cheyrou to decide he wasn't good enough. I think you'd have to be a very fickle person to completely change your view on Voronin just because of a Paul Tomkins article. In saying that, I'd gladly and hopefully hold my hands up in error if Voronin goes on to have a good season.
      heimdall
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      Re: The Official Paul Tomkins Thread
      Reply #290: Jul 28, 2009 03:06:57 pm
      I feel Voronin could be useful as a sub but nothing more, he certainly shouldn't be starting games for us, I still have nightmares of him and Kuyt up front!
      The Invisible Man
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      Re: The Official Paul Tomkins Thread
      Reply #291: Jul 28, 2009 03:48:36 pm
      I don't think so. IMO I've seen enough of Voronin to think that he's just not good enough, much in the same way that people saw enough of the likes of Cheyrou to decide he wasn't good enough.


      Or the way people saw enough of Benayoun to say he's not good enough? Believe me, I read hundreds of posts on forums saying that.

      All teams have those players who "are not good enough" but who somehow play an important part in winning the league.
      ShanerB
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      Re: The Official Paul Tomkins Thread
      Reply #292: Jul 28, 2009 04:14:19 pm

      Or the way people saw enough of Benayoun to say he's not good enough? Believe me, I read hundreds of posts on forums saying that.

      All teams have those players who "are not good enough" but who somehow play an important part in winning the league.

      Well I think Benayoun showed enough in his first season to be considered a good squad player, he then went on to be something of a revelation in the second half of last season. Voronin on the other hand has shown nothing to indicate that he'll ever have something to offer, apart from a few meaningless friendlies when he first joined. For every player like Benayoun that didn't show his best initially but went on to prove himself there's plenty more such as the likes of Cheyrou, Biscan, Diao, Diouf etc that didn't. Players that simply don't seem good enough after a full season more often than not aren't good enough.

      Now he's going to get a chance to prove himself this season, one which I thouroughly hope he grabs with both hands, but I don't expect much. A season is enough to judge a player. They don't have to hit top form to be considered a good purchase but they have to show the potential to improve, something I simply don't think Voronin has.
      The Invisible Man
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      Re: The Official Paul Tomkins Thread
      Reply #293: Jul 28, 2009 05:06:27 pm
      Well I think Benayoun showed enough in his first season to be considered a good squad player, he then went on to be something of a revelation in the second half of last season. Voronin on the other hand has shown nothing to indicate that he'll ever have something to offer, apart from a few meaningless friendlies when he first joined.



      It was far more than that with Voronin - he was doing very well for the first few months. But Torres overshadowed him, as you'd expect.

      Voronin scored 6 goals in not that many starts - about the same amount as Robbie Keane, who many felt we should keep, in less playing time.

      He's a decent squad player, so what's the problem?
      Christ
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      Re: The Official Paul Tomkins Thread
      Reply #294: Jul 28, 2009 05:34:50 pm
      there is no problem mate... I just think some fans want us to deal easy in the market like Madrid and Man City. I'm sure if funds are available and Rafa has a different player in his sights, Voronin would be sold, but until then we have to accept and encourage the best out of the squad we have. Voronins stats arent bad, he has always been a bit part player. So next time fans decide to boo our own Players such as Lucas and Voronin remember you are only upsetting the team spirit of Liverpool Football Club,the team you say you support, that is the big Picture!
      RC9
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      Re: The Official Paul Tomkins Thread
      Reply #295: Jul 28, 2009 06:09:33 pm
      Rafa wants Voronin in his plans for next season and sees him as an important player. So Rafa must see something in him lets just wait and see.
      MsGerrard
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      Re: The Official Paul Tomkins Thread
      Reply #296: Jul 29, 2009 05:39:48 pm


      I've got it.....had it for my birthday, can't wait to get my teeth into it  ;D
      The Invisible Man
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      Re: The Official Paul Tomkins Thread
      Reply #297: Jul 30, 2009 11:03:01 am

      I've got it.....had it for my birthday, can't wait to get my teeth into it  ;D



      Err, I don't think it's edible, although I might be wrong...
      MsGerrard
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      Re: The Official Paul Tomkins Thread
      Reply #298: Jul 30, 2009 02:28:35 pm


      Err, I don't think it's edible, although I might be wrong...

      Your right....I tried and it didn't taste very nice at all  :laugh:

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