Rafa MUST win us the league next season

Rafa doesn't have to win the league next season. 

As long as we are still in serious contention for the league in April/May then he will have done his job.

Of course, winning everything would be nice.

True man. very true but we do need to start finding success in domestic competition. im not gonna call for a league title but maybe at least puttin some focus on FA or league cups and bring one of them home. To prove we aint just the one trick pony that the mancs claim.

What a laugh ! A fifteen million transfer fund, and any more you have to raise from selling players.  Yes Parry should go, to the likes of Birmingham or Wigan or Everton. Who the F**k does he think he's dealing with here ? He is no doubt a spokesman/lackey/messenger boy, for Hicks by the sound of it.

Benitez has to win the league this coming season as far as I'm concerned. He came here with a five year plan (apparently) and you don't need five years and 150 million plus to get Liverpool Football Club fourth.

We all know the success he's brought to the club and I'll never forget any of it but there's no point being blinded by successes in the past. It's the present that matter and at this present moment Benitez has got us no closer to winning the league than Houllier did. I don't think a challenge is good enough, you don't get anything for coming second. "First will always be first, second will always be nothing" Must win the league next year.

So many new users come on this forum and they're quick to take shots at Benitez and change their ways quickly, please please read this thread a few more and you will see all the arguement you are going to use have been tried and failed.  It really gets boring when the same thing is said time and time again.  And welcome on board!

Sorry mate but my view on Benitez is simple. The fella is a genius but he still needs to win the league next year.

I've heard the arguements defending him so many times they bore me to tears. He needs time, he needs money, he can't work under the current conditions. None of those excuses wash with me. He didn't need money when he was signing Reina, Agger, Skrtel, Arbeloa, Crouch and so on. He didn't need time to win the Champions League or FA Cup or reach a Carling Cup final. And he was able to work under the conditions when we beating Inter, Arsenal, Reading, Bolton, Newcastle and so on. It seems to me that the more money and more time he's had the worst the club has got.

I love Benitez and hope he's our manager for many years, but he has to win the league next year.

Sorry mate but my view on Benitez is simple. The fella is a GENIUS but he still needs to win the league next year.

 

I've heard the arguements defending him so many times they bore me to tears. He needs time, he needs money, he can't work under the current conditions. None of those excuses wash with me. He didn't need money when he was signing Reina, Agger, Skrtel, Arbeloa, Crouch and so on. He didn't need time to win the Champions League or FA Cup or reach a Carling Cup final. And he was able to work under the conditions when we beating Inter, Arsenal, Reading, Bolton, Newcastle and so on.

It seems to me that the more money and more time he's had the worst the club has got.

UEFA doesn't seem to agree with you for sure they've just ranked us as number one!

I think you are either very confused or you just want to start an arguement!

As for him spending 150m it is more like 80m the sort of money Utd spent last season on four players! 

Amazing how people expect a win when the current champions and Euro champs will probably end up spending more just like they did last summer. A challenge is about most we can expect next year IMO.

so what if UEFA rate us number 1 pal? Does that give us a league title? Does that give us a god given right to win the Champions League? Does that mean anything? No it F***ing doesn't. It means nothing, if we were the best team in Europe then we'd of won the Champions League but we didn't. We got knocked out in the semis in case you forgot. And no I'm not confused, the reason we're ranked number one is because of Benitez' genius. He's taken us back to the glory European days. But being ranked number is as important as how many times Rafa Benitez takes a sh*t.

150m is 80m? christ all mighty that'll take some explaining. We spend 150 million but because United spend a lot that means it's only 80. Fucks sake where do people get off on these pathetic arguements. Worst defense I've heard for any manager EVER. I guess basing on that logic then that Torres only cost us 5 million because Rooney cost United nearly 30 eh? Here's me thinking Martin Skrtel cost just over 6 million when in reality he only cost 1 million because Ferdinand cost United 30. Really think it's time you think things through a little more.

What Benitez has done in Europe makes him a genius as far as I'm concerned. I didn't expect him to take us to one Champions League final before 2010 never mind two with possibly more. But what does the Champions League mean in the Premiership? Nothing at all. If we win the Champions League do we win the Premiership as well? No we don't. They are two different competitions and because of that Benitez has to win the Premiership to prove he's worthy of managing this club because I for one am not happy being a cup team.

Amazing how people expect a win when the current champions and Euro champs will probably end up spending more just like they did last summer. A challenge is about most we can expect next year IMO.

United spent more on Ferdinand than our entire defense but which side kept more clean sheets?
United spent more on Hargraves, Carrick, Nani and Anderson than us, but I'd take Mascherano, Alonso, Lucas and Gerrard anyday.
United spent more on Rooney than we did on Torres but who scored more goals?

Really do people firmly believe that we can't compete because of money or is it just a convientant excuse. Take your head out your arses and realise the reason we're not competeting is becuase of consistantcy. We are not consistant enough and unless he's just signed a 5 year deal with United, consistantcy cannot be bought. Why do you think we do so well in the cups? Because the cups are one off games, consistantcy isn't really needed, in the league it is. You have to play CONSISTANTLY well. We don't. United and Chelsea do.

Arsenal prime example. Last year played the best football for most of the season then come late Feburary early March they played without consistancy and failed to win the league. Every side has a bad period, United's was at the start of last year, but those who play CONSISTANTLY well enough will compete for the honours. United were the best side in the league last year.

Sorry mate but my view on Benitez is simple. The fella is a genius but he still needs to win the league next year.

I've heard the arguements defending him so many times they bore me to tears. He needs time, he needs money, he can't work under the current conditions. None of those excuses wash with me. He didn't need money when he was signing Reina, Agger, Skrtel, Arbeloa, Crouch and so on. He didn't need time to win the Champions League or FA Cup or reach a Carling Cup final. And he was able to work under the conditions when we beating Inter, Arsenal, Reading, Bolton, Newcastle and so on. It seems to me that the more money and more time he's had the worst the club has got.

I love Benitez and hope he's our manager for many years, but he has to win the league next year.

Yes Rafa has made some brilliant signings on a relatively low budget, but there's only so much you can do with your hands tied. We have a solid base to the squad, we just need to add a couple of extra bits of attacking creativity. Unfortunately the nature of the game is that a good attacking player is a lot easier to spot, so it becomes a lot trickier to pluck an unknown signing from obscurity like you can with a defensive player. If we want to get some quality attacking players they're gonna cost money, simple as that.

I do feel Benitez ends up shouldering a lot of blame that really shouldn't be apportioned to him. Yes none of us are happy with the fact that we haven't won the league for 18 years, but that's not Rafa's fault. What he has done is close the gap on the top year on year since he arrived here whilst also picking up a few other trophies along the way. If he stopped improving our position then I would be calling for his head myself, but until that happens he will have my full backing. It's a cliche I know, but Rome wasn't built in a day, we are a lot closer than we were four years ago & I fully expect Rafa to close the gap further this season. I'm not gonna stick my neck out & say we'll win the league next season, lady luck can also have a big say in that, but I am confident we will be challenging.

You are definately confused as you just keep on contradicting yourself by giving Benitez credit but then state that he hasn't won the premiership.  Do you know what a genius is and how rare they are! You want to contemplate on firing a genius what drugs are you on! 

United spent more on Ferdinand than our entire defense but which side kept more clean sheets?
United spent more on Hargraves, Carrick, Nani and Anderson than us, but I'd take Mascherano, Alonso, Lucas and Gerrard anyday.
United spent more on Rooney than we did on Torres but who scored more goals?

Really do people firmly believe that we can't compete because of money or is it just a convientant excuse. Take your head out your arses and realise the reason we're not competeting is becuase of consistantcy. We are not consistant enough and unless he's just signed a 5 year deal with United, consistantcy cannot be bought. Why do you think we do so well in the cups? Because the cups are one off games, consistantcy isn't really needed, in the league it is. You have to play CONSISTANTLY well. We don't. United and Chelsea do.

Arsenal prime example. Last year played the best football for most of the season then come late Feburary early March they played without consistancy and failed to win the league. Every side has a bad period, United's was at the start of last year, but those who play CONSISTANTLY well enough will compete for the honours. United were the best side in the league last year.

Why are you acting asif money isnt important. IT IS. We need consistency that is right, BUT it takes spending to get the best players who normally are the ones who are consistent OK. There are always going to be exceptions but they are not easy to find and when searching for those kinds of players you normally have to go through a few bad ones to get to a consistently good player and we dont really have time for that. 

We do need consistency but we also need the players to give us that and alot of the time they dont come cheap. Our defence is fine other than the need for more attacking from our wingbacks, players that give you consistency normally come cheap in the defence department they dont tend to in the attacking positions and the attacking positions are the ones we need to fill. If you can name me a cheap LM RM and SS for cheap that will give us more consistency then by all means do but it isnt easy atall so we DO need money and that is PART of the reason we cant compete, it is NOT just a convenient excuse.

Yes Rafa has made some brilliant signings on a relatively low budget, but there's only so much you can do with your hands tied. We have a solid base to the squad, we just need to add a couple of extra bits of attacking creativity. Unfortunately the nature of the game is that a good attacking player is a lot easier to spot, so it becomes a lot trickier to pluck an unknown signing from obscurity like you can with a defensive player. If we want to get some quality attacking players they're gonna cost money, simple as that.

I do feel Benitez ends up shouldering a lot of blame that really shouldn't be apportioned to him. Yes none of us are happy with the fact that we haven't won the league for 18 years, but that's not Rafa's fault. What he has done is close the gap on the top year on year since he arrived here whilst also picking up a few other trophies along the way. If he stopped improving our position then I would be calling for his head myself, but until that happens he will have my full backing. It's a cliche I know, but Rome wasn't built in a day, we are a lot closer than we were four years ago & I fully expect Rafa to close the gap further this season. I'm not gonna stick my neck out & say we'll win the league next season, lady luck can also have a big say in that, but I am confident we will be challenging.

lets just stick to the truth...closed the gap year in year out...ok. Houllier's last year we ended up 30 points behind, Benitez' first we were 37...no gap. It then got down to 9, not bad. Then went up to 21 points. Are you sure he's closed the gap every year? Becuase I'm not.

Next stopped improving our positions. OK again time for the truth. Houllier's last year we were fourth, Benitez' first we were fifth. OK so then we came third for two years then last season ended up fourth. Fourth is no improvement on third or am I living on a different planet.

Also the reason identifying unknown attacking players is because people think we have to buy the latest wizzkid on the continent. Did we go out and buy Eusabio? No we got Roger Hunt. Did we buy Pele? No we got Kevin Keegan. Did we buy Maradona? No we got Dalglish. Did we buy Van Basten? No we got Rush. Did we buy Basistuta? No we brought Robbie Fowler through the youth system. Why not take a punt on Kyle Lafferty (burnley) or Sylvain Ebanks-Blake (wolves) or Jermaine Beckford (leeds)? Young British lads who'd jump at the chance to play for England's most successful club but nah, lets buy Jose Gomez Dominguez from Real Betis. He's obviously got more talent hasn't he?

Why are you acting asif money isnt important. IT IS. We need consistency that is right, BUT it takes spending to get the best players who normally are the ones who are consistent OK. There are always going to be exceptions but they are not easy to find and when searching for those kinds of players you normally have to go through a few bad ones to get to a consistently good player and we dont really have time for that. 

We do need consistency but we also need the players to give us that and alot of the time they dont come cheap. Our defence is fine other than the need for more attacking from our wingbacks, players that give you consistency normally come cheap in the defence department they dont tend to in the attacking positions and the attacking positions are the ones we need to fill. If you can name me a cheap LM RM and SS for cheap that will give us more consistency then by all means do but it isnt easy atall so we DO need money and that is PART of the reason we cant compete, it is NOT just a convenient excuse.

Michael Keightly, Kyle Lafferty and Danny Hayes...there you go. But will we look at them? Nah course not because how can a Championship player be any better than a third rate Spaniard eh

Michael Keightly, Kyle Lafferty and Danny Hayes...there you go. But will we look at them? Nah course not because how can a Championship player be any better than a third rate Spaniard eh

So these players are good enough to enable a proper title challenge or are they just some players you think are good ? How have they done for their clubs over the season just gone ?

You are definately confused as you just keep on contradicting yourself by giving Benitez credit but then state that he hasn't won the premiership.  Do you know what a genius is and how rare they are! You want to contemplate on firing a genius what drugs are you on! 

There's nothing contradicting in anything I say. Benitez is a genius in europe. He's not in the Premiership. Contradiction? No, stating the bleeding obvious? Yes.

So these players are good enough to enable a proper title challenge or are they just some players you think are good ? How have they done for their clubs over the season just gone ?

Well Keightly is being tipped as the replacement for Bentley at Blackburn. Bentley a man that all top clubs are looking at so to be predicted as his replacement is high praise.

Lafferty is only 20 yet already played over 10 times for N.Ireland and is wanted by both Glasgow clubs (Cletic and Rangers) The Bhoys won the league and Rangers won the two domestic cup competitions in Soctland as well as finishing second in the league and reaching the UEFA Cup final.

Danny Hayes is just another great player from the Ipswhich accademy. They've produced many talents over the years and Hayes is the latest and has also been linked with moves to Premiership clubs.

lets just stick to the truth...closed the gap year in year out...ok. Houllier's last year we ended up 30 points behind, Benitez' first we were 37...no gap. It then got down to 9, not bad. Then went up to 21 points. Are you sure he's closed the gap every year? Becuase I'm not.

Next stopped improving our positions. OK again time for the truth. Houllier's last year we were fourth, Benitez' first we were fifth. OK so then we came third for two years then last season ended up fourth. Fourth is no improvement on third or am I living on a different planet.

Also the reason identifying unknown attacking players is because people think we have to buy the latest wizzkid on the continent. Did we go out and buy Eusabio? No we got Roger Hunt. Did we buy Pele? No we got Kevin Keegan. Did we buy Maradona? No we got Dalglish. Did we buy Van Basten? No we got Rush. Did we buy Basistuta? No we brought Robbie Fowler through the youth system. Why not take a punt on Kyle Lafferty (burnley) or Sylvain Ebanks-Blake (wolves) or Jermaine Beckford (leeds)? Young British lads who'd jump at the chance to play for England's most successful club but nah, lets buy Jose Gomez Dominguez from Real Betis. He's obviously got more talent hasn't he?

You're talking about years ago when clubs didn't have the sort of scouting networks they do now. Back then you could pick up quality players that no-one had heard of, but these days if there's anyone half decent out there then all the top clubs have them on their radar. Yes there is the occassional exception to the rule, Rafa himself has picked up a fair few of them, but if you have to keep shopping in the bargain basement you're not gonna end up with brilliant players every time, especially when it comes to attacking players.

Your point about league position is one that's brought up every time by the Rafa doubters, in fact I've answered it enough times already but seeing as you're new & I have to maintain my reputation for being good to newbies I'll go through it again.

In the words of the great Bill Shankly 'First is first and second is nothing'. Obviously our primary objective has to be to try & win the league every season, but if we don't then it is a hell of a lot more important to me how far off the top we were than whether we finished second, third or fourth. Overall we have definitely made progress, we have gone from sending our £10m 'star signing' on a free transfer to Bolton to selling our cast-offs for £8m to Juventus. If you look at the squad we had then & the squad we have now the gulf in class is plain for all to see. The gap was massive when Rafa took over, and that sort of gap isn't just gonna be closed overnight. We are very close now and I do fully expect us to be challenging this season, but if we don't win the league then I won't be calling for Rafa's head as long as we have progressed again. Despite the fact that the competition started light years ahead of us & have then been spending more than us every year since Rafa has still been managing to close the gap, unfortunately the grass is always greener for some people. We will not find anyone else who will do the job Rafa has done with the funds he has had available, and anyone who wants to get rid of him is a fool IMO.

The thing that I dont see is how these will help us to challenge for the title. They may be good young prospects but having a big club interested in signing you isnt the mark of a title challenging player. It shows promise but we already have that in youngsters we have within our team and in our reserve setup. If these players were that good and you are using big clubs being interested as an example why arent any of the top 4 interested in them ? Fair enough you think we arent because we prefer to buy players form abroad but what about the other 3 ? Why arent man u chelsea OR arsenal being linked to them instead of blackburn rangers and celtic ? Bentley is being linked to 2 top clubs 2 is hardly all top clubs is it.

Playing for your international side over 10 times isnt an amazing feat, once again its a promising sign but babel turned 21 not too long ago yet he has 24 caps for holland and he's still just a player with potential who still needs some more time to grow as a player, he isnt yet a title winning/challenging player and yet he has more caps for a better international side than this Lafferty. Im not saying Lafferty is a bad player but habing that many caps means nothing. How does any of that prove they can make us make a sustained title challenge ?

Eddie, I've heard the defense arguements so many times it bores me tears. Nothing personal, it's just I've heard them that often.

So what you're saying is you'd rather finish 20th and only 3 points off top, than second but 30 points behind the champions? OK fair enough that's up to you. If it's the point total that matters then Gerard Houllier is a better manager as he ended up 8 points behind, Benitez' closest is 9. Are we in agreement? I have a feeling we aren't. But all arguements have holes in them so don't be too worried.

OK so I'm talking about years ago with the likes of Hunt, Keegan, Dalglish, Rush but are you honestly telling me that talent disappears? Are you trying to say Neil Mellor couldn't do what Voronin does? Or Kyle Lafferty is any worse a forward than Dirk Kuyt? If you are then I can honestly say I feel for you. If you geniunely think that we can't find a talented lad from the lower leagues who could do what many of our current squad could do. There's lad on a park of a Sunday who can do what half that squad does.

The thing that I dont see is how these will help us to challenge for the title. They may be good young prospects but having a big club interested in signing you isnt the mark of a title challenging player. It shows promise but we already have that in youngsters we have within our team and in our reserve setup. If these players were that good and you are using big clubs being interested as an example why arent any of the top 4 interested in them ? Fair enough you think we arent because we prefer to buy players form abroad but what about the other 3 ? Why arent man u chelsea OR arsenal being linked to them instead of blackburn rangers and celtic ? Bentley is being linked to 2 top clubs 2 is hardly all top clubs is it.

Playing for your international side over 10 times isnt an amazing feat, once again its a promising sign but babel turned 21 not too long ago yet he has 24 caps for holland and he's still just a player with potential who still needs some more time to grow as a player, he isnt yet a title winning/challenging player and yet he has more caps for a better international side than this Lafferty. Im not saying Lafferty is a bad player but habing that many caps means nothing. How does any of that prove they can make us make a sustained title challenge ?

Fair enough point and I'm not saying these are the answers, what I am saying is that they can do a much better job than what we currently have. I'd rather see Keightly than Benayoun. Lafferty than Voronin or Hayes than Kuyt. But the reason these aren't wanted by any of the big sides is simple, they play in the Championship. Other than Walcott I can't think of a player who's in the Championship and a one of the top clubs have gone after them and said "here you go lad, you're playing in the first team"

The youngsters we've brought in from lower league English sides, Anderson and Hobbs the biggest two, have been sent out on loan and probably will be again and then be flogged without given a chance in the first team. Same with the reserves. Why go out and spend 8 million on this Italian left back when we have Insua. We need to put a bit more belief in our youngsters, look how United won everything in the 90s to build what they have now. They had a base of experince, aided with the youngsters. We need to put a few kids in and get rid of the deadwood.

And I know I was scraping the barrel a bit with Lafferty's caps for N.Ireland but like I said earlier, every arguement has holes in it.

So what you're saying is you'd rather finish 20th and only 3 points off top, than second but 30 points behind the champions?

Now you're just being silly. Obviously there is a threshold that we can't go below, namely fourth place, but the difference between fourth & second is much less important to me than how many points off the top we are. So to rephrase your question in a more sensible & less nonchelant way let's ask if I would rather fourth & ten points off the top or second & 20 points off the top. I can honestly say I would take fourth every time because the smaller gap would mean we are a lot closer to winning it.

OK so I'm talking about years ago with the likes of Hunt, Keegan, Dalglish, Rush but are you honestly telling me that talent disappears?

Read my post again & you'll find I've already answered this question. The talent hasn't disappeared, but everyone is a lot more aware of it now than they were back then & it is a lot harder to find an unknown player hwo will make it big.

Are you trying to say Neil Mellor couldn't do what Voronin does? Or Kyle Lafferty is any worse a forward than Dirk Kuyt?

TBH yes Mellor probably is just as good as Voronin IMO, but neither are good enough. Voronin will go this summer, same as it was right for Mellor to go as he wasn't up to it either. Voronin actually looked like a handy player back in Germany so for a free transfer it was probably worth a punt to see if he could cut it, he's shown he hasn't so we will let him go, that's how it works. I'm not entirely sure what point you're trying to make with this comment?

There's lad on a park of a Sunday who can do what half that squad does.

It always seems to go the same way with the rafa-bashers on here. It starts with the fairly reasoned arguments like you have, then when confronted with a bit of disagreement it suddenly seems to move on to the totally ludicrous statements like this one. I'll put money on it right now that within a week you will have referred to all the posters on here as 'you lot', accused me of not letting you have an opinion, and had a full blown argument with Donrafael whilst still maintaining a strange level of flirtiness about the discussion

Fair enough point and I'm not saying these are the answers, what I am saying is that they can do a much better job than what we currently have. I'd rather see Keightly than Benayoun. Lafferty than Voronin or Hayes than Kuyt. But the reason these aren't wanted by any of the big sides is simple, they play in the Championship. Other than Walcott I can't think of a player who's in the Championship and a one of the top clubs have gone after them and said "here you go lad, you're playing in the first team"

The youngsters we've brought in from lower league English sides, Anderson and Hobbs the biggest two, have been sent out on loan and probably will be again and then be flogged without given a chance in the first team. Same with the reserves. Why go out and spend 8 million on this Italian left back when we have Insua. We need to put a bit more belief in our youngsters, look how United won everything in the 90s to build what they have now. They had a base of experince, aided with the youngsters. We need to put a few kids in and get rid of the deadwood.

And I know I was scraping the barrel a bit with Lafferty's caps for N.Ireland but like I said earlier, every arguement has holes in it.

In the case of benayoun, he got into double figures with his goals and made a huge impact on alot of the games he played. He's a vital player and to be honest was one of our best signings. This other player must be something special if you want him over yossi, yossi is underrated, very underrated people are quick to forget who set up nandos first liverpool goal, who set up nandos goal against chelsea in the CL semi, who had a huge influence on the 8-0 win over besiktas.

Kuyt, is the hardest worker you will find in football, i have faith in him and think he will have a good season in the coming one. We wouldnt have done as well in the CL without him playing he is another underrated player, he has had one bad season but i still dont want him to leave he's a dedicated player who had to deal with his father dying and has shown courage and heart throughout the season.

Voronin theres no excuse for nbut be honest do you expect him to be here next season ? didnt think so.

This is what i mean its easy to throw criticism of our squad around but when you look at it properly you realise it isnt as easy as buy a few promising lower league players and we'll be able to challenge. Fair enough some of them deserve a chance but you talk about only theo walcott being picked up by a top club and being given a chance but have you not heard of Ramsey ? have you not heard of Bostock? have you not heard of Fontaine? These have all been linked to premier league clubs and would be given a chance to show what they can do.

Its easy to dismiss it as OH we just go for foreign players and dont go for any championship players but the truth is we dont really need them thats why we dont go for them. To challenge for the title we need a mixture of experience and youth. Why buy Dossena when we have Insua ? Because Insua isnt ready, we need him to be eased into the side, being a young player thrust into the premier league can destroy your career. It may seem far fetched but it really can, you have a terrible game due to inexperience and your confidence hits rock bottom and that isnt easy to get back. Whats better easing a player in by getting a new player in his position and having him as the understudy playing a few games here and there and being easied into the side or him being thrown in at the deep end with a risk of him not being ready then having to wait even longer to get a first team chance.

All these young players you menetioned may be promising i bet none of them are as good as nemeth and he's only 19, it takes time to break into the first team at a big club. Think of the mancs, they have Eagles, fantastic winger absolutely fantastic player and yet they bought nani ? Why because it is a better move than throwing eagles into the first team. All big teams tend to do it.

We need to focus on the weak points in our squad and thats what rafa is doing. If these players were good enough, all the top teams would be battling it our for them a bit like a good few top sides are for ramsey. We have made so much more progress than rafa has been given credit for, look at our reserves achievements this season and they still arent considered the best reserve team by opposition fans.