Rafa MUST win us the league next season

UEFA doesn't seem to agree with you for sure they've just ranked us as number one!

I think you are either very confused or you just want to start an arguement!

UEFAs 2008 Rankings have us at 3rd behind chavski n i think its AC

In the case of benayoun, he got into double figures with his goals and made a huge impact on alot of the games he played. He's a vital player and to be honest was one of our best signings. This other player must be something special if you want him over yossi, yossi is underrated, very underrated people are quick to forget who set up nandos first liverpool goal, who set up nandos goal against chelsea in the CL semi, who had a huge influence on the 8-0 win over besiktas.

Kuyt, is the hardest worker you will find in football, i have faith in him and think he will have a good season in the coming one. We wouldnt have done as well in the CL without him playing he is another underrated player, he has had one bad season but i still dont want him to leave he's a dedicated player who had to deal with his father dying and has shown courage and heart throughout the season.

Voronin theres no excuse for nbut be honest do you expect him to be here next season ? didnt think so.

This is what i mean its easy to throw criticism of our squad around but when you look at it properly you realise it isnt as easy as buy a few promising lower league players and we'll be able to challenge. Fair enough some of them deserve a chance but you talk about only theo walcott being picked up by a top club and being given a chance but have you not heard of Ramsey ? have you not heard of Bostock? have you not heard of Fontaine? These have all been linked to premier league clubs and would be given a chance to show what they can do.

Its easy to dismiss it as OH we just go for foreign players and dont go for any championship players but the truth is we dont really need them thats why we dont go for them. To challenge for the title we need a mixture of experience and youth. Why buy Dossena when we have Insua ? Because Insua isnt ready, we need him to be eased into the side, being a young player thrust into the premier league can destroy your career. It may seem far fetched but it really can, you have a terrible game due to inexperience and your confidence hits rock bottom and that isnt easy to get back. Whats better easing a player in by getting a new player in his position and having him as the understudy playing a few games here and there and being easied into the side or him being thrown in at the deep end with a risk of him not being ready then having to wait even longer to get a first team chance.

All these young players you menetioned may be promising i bet none of them are as good as nemeth and he's only 19, it takes time to break into the first team at a big club. Think of the mancs, they have Eagles, fantastic winger absolutely fantastic player and yet they bought nani ? Why because it is a better move than throwing eagles into the first team. All big teams tend to do it.

We need to focus on the weak points in our squad and thats what rafa is doing. If these players were good enough, all the top teams would be battling it our for them a bit like a good few top sides are for ramsey. We have made so much more progress than rafa has been given credit for, look at our reserves achievements this season and they still arent considered the best reserve team by opposition fans.

To be honest with you mate, yes I do expect Voronin to be here next season because no one will take him off our hands. Benayoun isn't good enough for Liverpool. He's a poor version of Luis Garcia. One good game in every 10 isn't up to Liverpool's standard. Players like him are the reason we won't win the league because he's far too inconsistant. Kuyt runs, runs and runs but still isn't good enough. He's not a forward and he's not a right winger. His basic skills lack a lot. Control, passing and accuracy, still nowhere near good enough. But if you're happy with players who'll get us fourth rather than win the league then good for you.

It's all well and good bedding youngsters in but we've been bedding Insua in for two years now, surely it's time to see if he can hack a regular place. We have Abreloa/Aurelio/Riise (possibly) and Carragher to all cover at left back if Insua isn't good enough to leave us eight million for something we do need. Just another waste of money, to be fair I class Gareth Barry in the same catergory. He isn't desperately needed but instead of saving twenty million for say Bentley/Berbatov we go out and sign a central midfielder and left back. But hey, why would we try and fix the problems we clearly have when we can buy another central midfielder. As for Nemeth the lad is top draw. I'd rather see Nemeth on the bench than Voronin/Kuyt. I'd rather see Plessis/Spearing given a go ahead of an unrequired Barry (I am a fan on his by the way, it's just we don't need him)

We don't need championship players but we did need Voronin? Itandje? Josemi? Barragan? Well call me stupid but I thought the point of transfers was to bring in quality. Obviously me and Rafa Benitez have a different idea.

As for United how do you think they won everything in the 90s? Gary Neville, Phil Neville, David Beckham, Ryan Giggs, Lee Sharpe, Ryan Giggs, Paul Scholes, Nicky Butt all coming through their youth system. Aided by the experince of Schemical, Pallister, Bruce, Irwin, Keane, Ince, Cantona, McClair, Hughes, Cole, Yorke. I'd rather see our youngsters come in with hunger than mickey mouse players who are just happy picking up a wage. Darby at right back, Insua left back, Anderson right wing, Nemeth up top. I'd rather have those four as starter or back up than what we're putting out now.

Now you're just being silly. Obviously there is a threshold that we can't go below, namely fourth place, but the difference between fourth & second is much less important to me than how many points off the top we are. So to rephrase your question in a more sensible & less nonchelant way let's ask if I would rather fourth & ten points off the top or second & 20 points off the top. I can honestly say I would take fourth every time because the smaller gap would mean we are a lot closer to winning it.

Read my post again & you'll find I've already answered this question. The talent hasn't disappeared, but everyone is a lot more aware of it now than they were back then & it is a lot harder to find an unknown player hwo will make it big.

TBH yes Mellor probably is just as good as Voronin IMO, but neither are good enough. Voronin will go this summer, same as it was right for Mellor to go as he wasn't up to it either. Voronin actually looked like a handy player back in Germany so for a free transfer it was probably worth a punt to see if he could cut it, he's shown he hasn't so we will let him go, that's how it works. I'm not entirely sure what point you're trying to make with this comment?

It always seems to go the same way with the rafa-bashers on here. It starts with the fairly reasoned arguments like you have, then when confronted with a bit of disagreement it suddenly seems to move on to the totally ludicrous statements like this one. I'll put money on it right now that within a week you will have referred to all the posters on here as 'you lot', accused me of not letting you have an opinion, and had a full blown argument with Donrafael whilst still maintaining a strange level of flirtiness about the discussion

1) how was I being silly? You said you were more interested in points than position. So surely coming 20th and only three points behind is better than second and twenty points behind. I'm only using your idiotic logic. Also do we class Gerard Houllier as a better manager than Benitez after all he finished second and eight points behind in comparrison to Benitez' third and nine points. Do we consider Houllier as the better manager using your logic?

2) It's not difficult to spot the talent or one who'll make it big. The problem is modern day managers are too sh*t scared to buy a lower league player. Michael Keightly for example, he was playing non league football until Mick McCarthy bought him for Wolves two years ago and now he's being tipped as Bentley's replacement.

3) Mellor may not of been a Fernando Torres but he was certainly better than Voronin and I'd be happier seeing Mellor come on than Voronin. But nah, that would be the simple thing to do. Something which Rafa Benitez isn't too fond on.

4) I'll refer to people as "you lot" like I refer to all Americans as "you yanks" or all Aussies as "you aussies" or all people from Newcastle as "you geordies" or all people from London as "you cockney southern tw*ts" so if I refer to you as you lot, it won't be anything different to the usual. I'll never say you won't let me have an opinion because you don't control my fingers, so I can type what I wish without your permission. Likewise you can type what you like.

1) how was I being silly? You said you were more interested in points than position. So surely coming 20th and only three points behind is better than second and twenty points behind. I'm only using your idiotic logic. Also do we class Gerard Houllier as a better manager than Benitez after all he finished second and eight points behind in comparrison to Benitez' third and nine points. Do we consider Houllier as the better manager using your logic?

I'm not even gonna argue this one with you, anyone with half a brain can see the point I was making, and I'm pretty sure you can too & you're just being argumentative for the sake of it.

2) It's not difficult to spot the talent or one who'll make it big. The problem is modern day managers are too sh*t scared to buy a lower league player. Michael Keightly for example, he was playing non league football until Mick McCarthy bought him for Wolves two years ago and now he's being tipped as Bentley's replacement.

If it's not difficult then why aren't we all working as football managers, and why do managers on multi-million pound salaries still manage to get it wrong?

3) Mellor may not of been a Fernando Torres but he was certainly better than Voronin and I'd be happier seeing Mellor come on than Voronin. But nah, that would be the simple thing to do. Something which Rafa Benitez isn't too fond on.

So you're suggesting we should have kept Mellor? Get a grip! As I already said, Voronin may well be sh*te & Mellor may well be slightly better, but that doesn't mean that Rafa was wrong to get rid of Mellor & try to bring someone better in, it just means that the choice of replacement wasn't good enough.

4) I'll refer to people as "you lot" like I refer to all Americans as "you yanks" or all Aussies as "you aussies" or all people from Newcastle as "you geordies" or all people from London as "you cockney southern tw*ts" so if I refer to you as you lot, it won't be anything different to the usual. I'll never say you won't let me have an opinion because you don't control my fingers, so I can type what I wish without your permission. Likewise you can type what you like.

The last comment by me was an attempt at humour, those that have been on the boards a while will understand what I meant as it has actually worked that way on quite a few occassions with other posters. I am glad to hear that you won't be accusing me of not letting you have an opinion as like this it is another discussion that I have had way too many times. I am also glad to know that I can type what I like, believe me it is a massive weight off my shoulders. I'll also respect your choice of words when referring to people from different parts of the country, but in return as a 'southern cockney tw*t' myself you will have to respect my choice of words if I decide to refer to you as a thick shithead c**t.

To be honest with you mate, yes I do expect Voronin to be here next season because no one will take him off our hands. Benayoun isn't good enough for Liverpool. He's a poor version of Luis Garcia. One good game in every 10 isn't up to Liverpool's standard. Players like him are the reason we won't win the league because he's far too inconsistant. Kuyt runs, runs and runs but still isn't good enough. He's not a forward and he's not a right winger. His basic skills lack a lot. Control, passing and accuracy, still nowhere near good enough. But if you're happy with players who'll get us fourth rather than win the league then good for you.

It's all well and good bedding youngsters in but we've been bedding Insua in for two years now, surely it's time to see if he can hack a regular place. We have Abreloa/Aurelio/Riise (possibly) and Carragher to all cover at left back if Insua isn't good enough to leave us eight million for something we do need. Just another waste of money, to be fair I class Gareth Barry in the same catergory. He isn't desperately needed but instead of saving twenty million for say Bentley/Berbatov we go out and sign a central midfielder and left back. But hey, why would we try and fix the problems we clearly have when we can buy another central midfielder. As for Nemeth the lad is top draw. I'd rather see Nemeth on the bench than Voronin/Kuyt. I'd rather see Plessis/Spearing given a go ahead of an unrequired Barry (I am a fan on his by the way, it's just we don't need him)

We don't need championship players but we did need Voronin? Itandje? Josemi? Barragan? Well call me stupid but I thought the point of transfers was to bring in quality. Obviously me and Rafa Benitez have a different idea.

As for United how do you think they won everything in the 90s? Gary Neville, Phil Neville, David Beckham, Ryan Giggs, Lee Sharpe, Ryan Giggs, Paul Scholes, Nicky Butt all coming through their youth system. Aided by the experince of Schemical, Pallister, Bruce, Irwin, Keane, Ince, Cantona, McClair, Hughes, Cole, Yorke. I'd rather see our youngsters come in with hunger than mickey mouse players who are just happy picking up a wage. Darby at right back, Insua left back, Anderson right wing, Nemeth up top. I'd rather have those four as starter or back up than what we're putting out now.

No he isnt likely to be here. Weve already had interest in him so that makes no sense. Considering benayoun has had more good games then bad ones that point makes no sense either. He isnt inconsistent and hasnt been atall since he joined. If kuyt's nowhere near good enough why have are we keeping him, how is he still making the holland first 11 ahead of players like huntelaar.

4 games does not equal bedding a youngster in, thats not even half the amount needed. Your talking about not good enough to win the league and you want to throw in a reserve player and have players that are either not good enough or dont even play in that position as his replacement if it doesnt work out for him. I dont want barry either but we look like we will get him.

All this stuff is criticism of rafa's management so why do you rate him as a manager ? Barragan left for personal reasons, hes a good player. Voronin started well then went bad, he didnt cost a penny. Itandje looks like he will leave, josemi was given the boot because he wasnt good enough. Theres no point throwing all these youngsters in as they need time. Why are you naming all these old man u players, that was the past, who was the last player in their team to step up from the reserves ? exactly.

One of the points made was Rafa's team won 82 points in 06 yet the team has not done as well in the point stakes for the past 2 yrs yet if you look a little deeper last season we had a CL final to go to and when qualification was done we took our foot of the gas a little even though Rafa would not have liked the players to do that I think it's second nature to make sure you don't pick up any injury's that'll keep you out of a final and in the last few season's we had a lot of trouble scoring goals although we created lots of chances but we had no Torres then. This season now all is over has been another improvement by the Red Men and that's down to Rafa and every year he's been with us he has improved us as a team year on year and what I'll say to people who think we will do better without Rafa is look at the club from youth level through to the first team and tell me he has not improved us and I'll show you a liar.


All that Rafa has been lacking is the backing of the owners 100% not the sell to buy that he has to make do with every year since the club was sold, and we were all hoping for a little better and thought these days we could live with the Joneses and sell when we wanted to without being dictated to yet that's what has happened just take the case of Crouch here's a guy we could get 12 to 15 mill for if only we could say no now and wait until nearer the deadline, but clubs know we need the money so they can wait yet if we were with owners who could say we can wait (like the Ronaldo thing going on down the road) then the price rises. This coming season will be the one where Rafa will take stock and if it go's well I would love him to stay for years but the trouble is a lot of supporters want or now think it's delivery time and no trophy no job but it's never that simple what if we challenge for all the top honors but win none do we call time on Rafa. I for one would like him here until the club is sorted out and then with luck we will have the right owners in place to give Rafa their full backing with finances and then we shall see what he can achieve...

Dunlop liddell, you’ve been talking about three youngster’s and their potential, and have been stressing recruiting youngsters from the lower leagues as our prime transfer policy to bridge the gap against the money rich competitors, but in the same sentence don’t want to give the time for these to develop.  Let take this young recruitment policy a little further first of all I think and many would agree with me that Benitez has doing well with youngsters it takes time but there is enough light under the tunnel to give me and many the confidence that there is talent on its way.  Players like Insua, Nemeth, Plessis, Hobbs, Alzhar, Anderson, Pacheco, San jose, Spearing…. etc there is quite a few that have potential. 


Let us take a step back and make a bench mark for developing youngsters.  As much as I can’t stand Wenger there is no one that can deny him his success in this department.  He is at the highest level the best in the business for developing and bringing in youngsters.  And if it can take him a period of two and half years and still not be using Walcott as regular starter, a player that you have yourself mentioned as hot property then surely players like Anderson, Insua, nemeth and co. will need a little bit of time.  Wenger has done remarkable in this department and has bridged the gap with his vision and influence in this department winning a fair share of silverware.  But when Chelsea emerged with their financial Russian muscles is it a coincidence that from being the best team in the league by a country mile they have gone belly-up.  Whilst there were challenging with one competitor they were achieving a fair share of success as soon as two walls of gold bullion obstructed them they just went down hill.  I know it maybe off the topic and none of us care about Arsenal, but shouldn’t Wenger be sacked as he can’t compete anymore and compared to Benitez over the past four years he gone from managing unbeatable team to one that has hardly won anything.

The thing is too many people take the media as the gospel truth.  The media  is quick to be negative about us and as we are a strong set of fans that stuck the fingers to the biggest circulating tabloid.  Even though the market is as competitive as any other, but journalists want to dictate everyone’s thinking and those that don’t go with it becoming aliens and targets. We have a manager that generally doesn’t like to give a pile of crap to the media to write about which also doesn’t work in our favour.  The media give so much credit to Arsenal and their style of play and that they need time to develop the youngsters, but with our youngsters keeps insisting to us that the prem is bread n butter.  What is bread and butter its bollocks – butter is bad for you it has too much cholesterol.  Of course we want the premiership but other competitions are important too and especially Europe it doesn’t getter bigger and is no bigger achievement for the country, the league and most importantly for us. 

I do think that Benitez will be giving the premiership a lot of extra emphasis in the coming campaigns as he knows that it’s the only one that has deluded him and has made it clear.   Nevertheless he will competing against better squads and two teams at least with more world class players and if there is a manager that will give me confidence that we with a chance it is Benitez as he has been there and done it.

i think that it'd be great to see the Liverpool Acadamy put to its full potential and i love seeing the arrival of top class young talent arriving on merseyside. Tho youth purchases/signings cannot be a substitute for world class players from home and abroad. Rather it seems best to buy top class bodies for the 1st team while also hunting out and securing the future services of the hot new prospects. Sorry for disjointed post but iv had a nightmare day and im tired

This coming season will be the one where Rafa will take stock and if it go's well I would love him to stay for years but the trouble is a lot of supporters want or now think it's delivery time and no trophy no job but it's never that simple what if we challenge for all the top honors but win none do we call time on Rafa. I for one would like him here until the club is sorted out and then with luck we will have the right owners in place to give Rafa their full backing with finances and then we shall see what he can achieve...

Exactly! Where the F**k has all the impatience come from recently? FFS, Rafa has done wonders with the team, from the squad he started with compared to the current line-up, I know which one I'd choose any day. He has brought class and the promise of better things, but I think this has worked against him with a certain number of supporters.

After the "drought" we went through during the 90's following the success of the prior 15 years, we have recently had a flurry of trophies, notably the UEFA Cup, FA Cup and Champion's League. I think the people who experienced the glory days, or remember them at least, feel that our time has come around again, but things aren't as simple nowadays as they were then. Teams can "buy" success to a certain point, like Chelsea, though this style of management seems doomed to failure due to the lack of bonding between players, and the greed between players and management the very system breeds. This isn't the way forward for a team who wants long-term success, but it hinders our progress nonetheless. Hence the need for patience! Let's not follow the "consumer" mentality that is invading other clubs, and have faith in Rafa to take us to the top.

Nevertheless he will competing against better squads and two teams at least with more world class players and if there is a manager that will give me confidence that we with a chance it is Benitez as he has been there and done it.

That's what I'm talking about. Other teams are buying the best players on the planet and our transfer budget is 1/4 of theirs, yet our team is expected to come out on top! That's rubbish IMO, we can only expect Rafa to take us close and be in the running realistically, the rest is out of his hands. Chopping and changing is for teams like Newcastle - Chelsea are going the same way if they are not careful, and I for one don't want Liverpool to follow them.

Why is it we are becoming obssesed with winning the prem of course i wanna win the league again im one lucky enough to see us win many but things have changed even i can accept that now. If Raffa stays at this club and doesnt jib it with all whats going on behind the scenes with tweedle dum an dee an i wouldnt blame the lad if he walked , Then mark my words he will win us the prem , theres no one better out there to do the job hes doing simple as. Ive waited 19 years i can wait a bit longer

lets just take it one at a time.

money? bollocks excuse...why? ok here's the explaination why...Newcastle outspend most Premiership sides year in year out yet haven't won a thing since the 50s. So I've come to the conclusion that money seems to be a conveniant excuse for Liverpool fans. Also why didn't QPR walk away with the Championship when they're owned by a man RICHER than Ambrovich? Those of you who follow lower league footy like meself will know that QPR didn't even make the play-offs. Money takes you so far, it doesn't GUARENTEE SUCCESS.

time? that's always a good one but again it's bollocks. Kenny Dalglish won the double in his first year as player-manager in 1986. He won the league in his first year with Blackburn. Mourinho won it in his first two years with Chelsea. And before anyone comes back with "chelsea bought the league" didn't they have the finicial power in 2003/04 under Ranieri or 2006/07 under Mourinho or last year under Grant? You don't need a great deal of time and even if you did I would consider four years enough time to have made even the smallest challenge for the premiership.

owners? seems to be the favourite of late. Oh and by the way that's bollocks as well. Again the explaination is pretty simple. If it's Hicks' and Gillett's fault when we lose surely it's all down to them when we win isn't it? Or look at it another way if it's the yanks fault that we're not winning the it's Jamie Carragher and Steven Gerrard's fault that the new stadium is built. Now I don't think anyone in their right mind will praise the yanks for us winning or blame players that the stadium isn't built because neither are true, likewise though, when we lose it's not the yanks fault. Also how can people blame the yanks for such a bad season when they were rowing with each other just as much during the period of mid February to the end of the season yet we won the majority of our games during this period, I think losing just two (united in the league and chelsea in europe). I will blame the yanks as much as anybody for things off the field (stadium, debt, transfers, contracts and so on) but what happens on the field is players and coaching staff fault.

they're the three main excuses and as far as I'm concerned none hold much truth in the matter. Truth is our players and manager are to inconsistant, don't have enough passison or pride and priorites lie in the wrong places. Same goes for so many fans. Speaking as a regular match goer I can say this quite honestly. Many of our fans are a disgrace. They can sing their hearts out for a European tie but come Wigan at home the ground is like a funeral with a few pockets of fans singing. The club needs a shake up from top to bottom to realise that Havant and Waterlooville is just as important as Barcelona.

It's still a must that he wins the league next year because you don't get prizes for coming second. We're Liverpool Football Club for fucks sake, the club is built on people willing to run through brick walls for the club, right now I don't think we have enough people who would. There all happy picking up a pay packet while performing at a level that will get them fourth. Well fourth isn't good enough. The legends of the past from day one like John Houlding would be turning in their graves if they felt Liverpool Football Club was accepting fourth. Houlding created this club and within the first two years we went from a Lancashire League side to a top flight first divison side. That's why it's a must we win the league, because for a club of our size nothing but first is good enough. Obviously somewhere along the lines though second, third or fourth suddenly became good enough.

^^ agree with some of your points.

If, as has been widely been suggested, that replacing Alonso with Barry is going to be one of the summer masterstrokes then I really do worry.

Bentley aside, I've not been excited by a single player we have been heavily linked with so far this summer.

Liverpool were really not that far behind last season.  We lacked ruthlessness and we failed to win some games we dominated.  The margin was I think still quite thin.  If we had thrown caution to the wind a few times and been a bit bolder some of those draws should have been turned in to victories.

The exerts in Europe towards the end of the group stages did have an effect on a Premier League hangover.  I'm all one for long European runs, but I feel that we sometimes put too many eggs in that basket.  If only Anfield could rock for Premiership games like we did for those amazing European nights then the holy grail may be returned.

We will win the league with Raffa Benitez of that im certain lad

Ok so lets get rid and start again new manager ,coaches ,players how long do you think your gona wait then. I know were LFC  18 times champions and yes well be champions again but not if we get rid of Raffa let him build thats what hes doing . Youve only got to look at the ressies to see what a set up hes got there most of them our his buys. Give me a manager whos better than him an ill swerve to one side

It seems to be your favourite phrase so I thought I'd use it as well, your post is total bollocks. Do you really believe that with the opposition starting off in a stronger position & then spending more money than us year on year since Rafa took over that we have some God given right to win the league? It's interesting that you can only name one club that has spent money without achieving anything, and that happens to be the club that proves the point about managers needing time. Why do you think Newcastle haven't won anything despite all their spending? The have never given a manager enough time to build something, and as a result will always be perennial underachievers.

You seem to have the very deluded view that we deserve to win things just because we are Liverpool, and TBH I really can't be bothered debating it with you anymore, I will just refer you back to my previous posts in this & many other topics. Fortunately for us you are not in charge of the club, as we would be in a very bad way if you were.

There has to come a time when you consider that a manager has failed.

Arguably Gerard Houllier brought us closer to the title than anybody else in recent years and he was given 5 years?

I think the vast groundswell of opinion of Liverpool fans is that we certainly expect to be involved in a real title challenge next season or the time will come to consider if someone else can do a better job.

I think the vast groundswell of opinion of Liverpool fans is that we certainly expect to be involved in a real title challenge next season or the time will come to consider if someone else can do a better job.

A challenge absolutely, I myslef will be considering whether he's the right man if we don't make a challenge. I still don't buy this theory though that he has to win the league or get sacked.

Next season is key in Rafa's future. But it shouldn't necessarily be Rafa's last season if he doesn't win the league.

What I expect is to be in a challenge for the title long after Christmas - hopefully April or May. There's a good nucleus to the team now which can brave the full journey. It's just a few details on the attacking front and left back, that's lacking. We are not going to win the league with Torres on his own up front all season, expected to score all the goals. We need someone with vision going up the right flank. We could do with a few more goals chipped in from midfield. And we can't have central defenders being dragged out wide to cover sleepy left backs.

These things, according to reports, are being focused on. We can all go all around the world and back about what players we feel we should be going for. But the area's of improvement are the discussion right now for next season. And we're not exactly loaded to go out and compete for a plethora of amazing talent. Nor has Rafa got the time to bed in a plethora of potential young future legends.

For me, it's not entirely a case of what players Rafa has brought in/will bring in. It's more of who he picks to play. If next season there is a bit more continuity in the league with the selections, then I have no doubt in my mind that we can go very far. But if we don't improve, then obviously more questions will be asked.

We will win the league with Raffa Benitez of that im certain lad

Ok so lets get rid and start again new manager ,coaches ,players how long do you think your gona wait then. I know were LFC  18 times champions and yes well be champions again but not if we get rid of Raffa let him build thats what hes doing . Youve only got to look at the ressies to see what a set up hes got there most of them our his buys. Give me a manager whos better than him an ill swerve to one side

OK so give me some sort of time scale of when he's finished? I mean in 50 years do we all sit there and go, "next year Rafa will win the league because he's only peice away from the jigsaw" Within four years we haven't come close. Not a bleeding sniff, so when exactly is the master peice finished? Do we just sit here and wait for him to win the league so you can all go "told you so" despite that not happening for at least another five years. Souness was given four years why didn't we let him finish? Evans was given four why wasn't he allowed to finish what he built? Houllier maybe he should of been allowed to finish it eh? Seriously are people so completely blinded by the Champions League of 2005. Yes it was a great achievement, yes it was possibly the greatest night in this club's great history and yes Rafa Benitez was our manager, but you have to move on. We've won nothing for two years now, if we don't win the league next year then he has to go. Five years is more than enough time to make a bloody good side. We have great players...the problem lies with the manager.

It seems to be your favourite phrase so I thought I'd use it as well, your post is total bollocks. Do you really believe that with the opposition starting off in a stronger position & then spending more money than us year on year since Rafa took over that we have some God given right to win the league? It's interesting that you can only name one club that has spent money without achieving anything, and that happens to be the club that proves the point about managers needing time. Why do you think Newcastle haven't won anything despite all their spending? The have never given a manager enough time to build something, and as a result will always be perennial underachievers.

You seem to have the very deluded view that we deserve to win things just because we are Liverpool, and TBH I really can't be bothered debating it with you anymore, I will just refer you back to my previous posts in this & many other topics. Fortunately for us you are not in charge of the club, as we would be in a very bad way if you were.

Hang on pal I can name a list of clubs who've spent without winning a list of trophies. Since 2000, clubs who've spent and won less than 5 trophies...Spurs, City, Villa, Sunderland, Newcastle. Quite a list there. So obviously it's only Newcastle? Christ you must be off your rocker you mate. Also we need time do we? Well Ramos won the League Cup in his first year...wow lenghty stay that. Benitez won the European Cup in his first year, long time needed. FA Cup second season, F***ing hell he was here for donkey's years. The more money he's had and the more time's he been here we've been winning nothing. FACT.

Who said we have a god given right? hmmmm.......nope still don't know, maybe you can point me in the right direction. What I said, quite clearly, but obviously wasn't simple enough for you, was this..."for a club of our size nothing but first is good enough" which is the truth. Obviously idiots like yourself (no offence) take this as we only have to turn up to win, when the clear meaning of it is for one of the biggest clubs in the world to be accepting anything but first is an embarrassment.

I'd like to raise another of your pathetic arguements. The one where you'd rather finish fourth than second. Are you one of those who thinks we can't compete for money? If so then finishing second surely offers you more money as well as a guarenteed pass to the group stages of the Champions League ensuring more money, but hey when we've got fans saying "i'm happy with fourth" what chance do we have of winning the league.

Hang on pal I can name a list of clubs who've spent without winning a list of trophies. Since 2000, clubs who've spent and won less than 5 trophies...Spurs, City, Villa, Sunderland, Newcastle. Quite a list there. So obviously it's only Newcastle? Christ you must be off your rocker you mate.

You were the one that only mentioned Newcastle in the first place, I didn't say it was only Newcastle that spend money, I pointed out the fact that you had only named one team. Out of the other clubs you have listed though only City have spent some real money, and that was only this season. What happened then? They pushed for a top four finish for most of the season.

Also we need time do we? Well Ramos won the League Cup in his first year...wow lenghty stay that. Benitez won the European Cup in his first year, long time needed. FA Cup second season, F***ing hell he was here for donkey's years. The more money he's had and the more time's he been here we've been winning nothing. FACT.

We're talking about the league here mate, not a cup competition. Pointing out the cup competitions won by Rafa at an early stage has no relevance.

Who said we have a god given right? hmmmm.......nope still don't know, maybe you can point me in the right direction. What I said, quite clearly, but obviously wasn't simple enough for you, was this..."for a club of our size nothing but first is good enough" which is the truth. Obviously idiots like yourself (no offence) take this as we only have to turn up to win, when the clear meaning of it is for one of the biggest clubs in the world to be accepting anything but first is an embarrassment.

Wow, two attempts at insulting my intelligence in the same paragraph, good effort. I understand this must be a stressful time for you, exams and all that, so I'll let you off. Read the statement you've made again, 'for a club of our size nothing but first is good enough'. Reading it again this statement says exactly the same to me as it did the first time round, that you believe we have some right to win the league because of who we are. It may have been perfectly clear to you what you meant but the way it was worded didn't make it perfectly clear to anyone reading.

I'd like to raise another of your pathetic arguements. The one where you'd rather finish fourth than second. Are you one of those who thinks we can't compete for money? If so then finishing second surely offers you more money as well as a guarenteed pass to the group stages of the Champions League ensuring more money, but hey when we've got fans saying "i'm happy with fourth" what chance do we have of winning the league.

You seem to be picking up a nasty habit of misquoting people, where did I say I would rather finish second than fourth? What I said was the points gap to the top was more important to me than if we finished second or fourth there is a big difference. You then go on to misquote again, who has said they're happy with fourth?

One plus though, your spelling seems to be improving the more you post

This is ridiculous, Fergie didnt win the league in his first 5 season so why should 5 seasons (including the coming season) be enough for rafa ?

We need to have faith in him to win us the league not say win it next year or you shouldnt be our boss. If he won us the CL again the coming season im sure you wouldnt want rid of him would you.

Bloody hell. I havent gone through hardly any posts as they are too long and cant be arsed reading them so i'll just ask:

If Rafa wins the CL, does he keep his job and secure 4th again? Surely. Rafa's job doesnt hang on the PL. If Fergie's ass was saved thanks to the FA Cup then you have to ask yourself, 'Doesnt Rafa deserve our respect for winning the CL and the FA Cup by giving him more time?' I know this argument was based on how far ahead Man Utd ended up being and how we failed to mount any sort of challenge past November but history shows, stability is key, a revolving door out the front of the gates gets you nothing no matter how much money you spend in this league with Newcastle and Tottenham proving my point. He can have another 3 seasons and bring no league as long as we end up being in the position we want to be. He clearly has the skills to take us to the top but not being able to lead a side consisting of the players he wants will not help our club and neither will having a new manager. 3 more seasons after this one, no challenge's in those 4 seasons, and its bye bye Rafa, no sweat, but in order to be a failure in my books, you have to have had a really decent shot at it and Rafa IMO hasnt had one.

Whose sayin were happy with fourth im not , Do you think any fan is happy where there team finish. Only the champions should me made up, But theres top teams out there mate all competing for the honey. Its not like years ago when you could say at the beginnin of the season only two sides were in with a shout. I lived through them days , An I want them back again, But we do not have a divine right to win the league any more .

Benitez is a top top manager and is the best out there at the moment for our club. An yes money does come into it in todays game, Look at last season we take a quality player off and replace him with an average no mark, The mancs take a quality player of a replace with quality. Same as the chavs, We need to have quality running right through the squad,
Were impatient its ok sayin go the lower leagues like we used to and find a gem but we want the finished article now , Thats what we have become as football fans. Even years ago when we did buy top names they always spent a time in the ressies to learn the Liverpool way of playing , Therd be F***ing murder if we done that now, Can you imagine sticking Fernando in the ressies last season and lettin him settle in , yeh right,

Weve got players at the mo who are surplus to requirements you all know who they are , But weve also got a few regular first teamers ill name Babel as one who needs to get a bit of bottle , Love the kid but he hasnt found his feet yet imo big strong as an oxx but shits himself sometimes were the tackle is concerned . Gets that right in his game an hell be fine come next season.
Then youve got the wage players who only think abar whats in the packet at the end of the month . Its abar wearing the red shirt imo and we havnt got enough of them.
From what ive seen of Skytel . an Mash they play for the shirt, so yep im hopeful for next season .

Im wafflin now but just answer me this who is better than Raffa to manage this club, cause I cant think of anyone. An another thing what has he actualy done wrong to warrent the sack.
Yeh ok he hasnt won us the prem but he will

As I said before im suprised he hasnt walked already with all the sh*t that been happening any one else would have , But thats because the mans loyal. he F***ing loves us and we should return the respect hes shown us and leave him alone

Dunlop you have way too much time on your hads my friend I have been posting on the forum for 6 months and have never seen anyone put so much time in writting so much crap. Your posts have alot of bark about them but no bite what so ever. I think the Liverpool team you have built on Fifa is quite successful and wins you alot of trophies.

I think you have missed the main point that well respected fans and bloggers on this forum have tried to portray across to people like yourself. I will put in a simple and layman question for you; can a mare win a horse race??? F**k no! Right now we are that mare consider firstly the squad Rafa inherited and the mass clean out that he had to go through, then he is building his own squad we have the best youth team in the country allready proven this year. Then there is the ownership issues that we have had and the shoestrig budget, yes I said it shoe string budget we are working on in compariosn to the other 3 clubs. You praise Chelsea and their success in winning the league in the first year Moureen took over, yet you dont look at the fact that they won sh*t all this season and only grabbed the FA Cup the season before , Wenger has not won anything in the past 3 years either should he be given the sack? No he wont get the sack because he has a proven track record of success in winning titles, well so does Rafa he done it with Valencia it took Wenger 4 years the first time around. So why now all this pressure and expectation from Rafa when the playing field is clearly unbalanced??? Once the playing field is balanced through ownership resolve and bigger transfer budget will be able to compete.  I am not content with finishing fourth but I am aware and realistic about the situation.


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