Criticise Voronin so why not Kuyt?

But JD is it all about putting fear in the opposition when coming face to face against the best teams.  He did a good job to nullify their threat on the left hand side.  And let others do the damage.   

Dirk Kuyt is a hard worker.

As a winger on the right? I prefer Pennant; but Kuyt's work rate is an added advantage.

As a striker, I prefer Crouch, but Kuyt puts his foot into it everytime. You dont beat Kuyt and go scot-free he comes after you; kinda like Mascherano does.

I feel sorry for Crouch, but he is no no. 1 striker, Torres is.

Kuyt stays.

Kuyt has been playing on the wings and has been working his little dutch socks of all season. Voronin looks like a shell of a player and has progressivly diminshed as the season went on, were as kuyt has got better

Kuyt has been playing on the wings and has been working his little dutch socks of all season. Voronin looks like a shell of a player and has progressivly diminshed as the season went on, were as kuyt has got better

To me he is still at the same standard as he was last season just in a differant position

Put Babel on the right of attack and buy Silva and put him on the left.. then we'd be talking!

That IS what will be happening. Contacts...Why do you think the price for Crouch is so high?

Back to Kuyt.

The fact of the matter is, we spent $11m on a STRIKER. Who the way I see it, was so bad upfront and offered so little threat, that he HAD to be put out wide.

Yes he runs a lot, but sht put a Liverpool shirt on my back and 45,000 screaming fans infront of me and I will run my arse off too. That should be part and parcel of playing for Liverpool FC not something that gets special praise because there is nothing else positive to say about the lad.

I am praying that Kuyt isn't with us next season.  That isn't going to do me any favours on this site i know, as he has alot of fans.  He isn't a winger, it's as simple as that.  Or is he a worthy striker.  Imo we are struggling on both flanks, the left hasn't been so blatant because Babel shows glimpses (I'm a massive Babel fan) and is growing in confidence.  He will , i believe one day be World Class.  But with old Dirk he is a failed striker making a go @ it on the wing, it shows.  He does contribute alot to a game but we need the best.  We need the likes of Stevie G and Torres, players of their calibre.  More players in that bracket.  I've always wanted him to be a success and get goals.  We need a change.

I think that kuyt is a great player, I rate him alot. Ok he don't seem to score many goals, but if your a stirker and play on the wing then your going to score alot goals. But i think that Kuyt will be here next season.

As for Voronin, I thought he had a great pre season and looked really good, he scored goals, worked hard, had pace, but after his injury he didn't come back and play well, he missed alot of chances like agaisnt Arsenal in the league. I can't really seen Voronin here next season.

Kuyt has done everything he has been  to do this season ,And i dont think another season at anfield is going to do any harm

That should be part and parcel of playing for Liverpool FC not something that gets special praise because there is nothing else positive to say about the lad.

I think Dirk deserves a little more credit than that. Although he may not be the most creative or prolific of attackers he does provide a lot to the team. I'm not going to say he would be my first choice out of all the players in the world but he has proved to be an effective player in the latter parts of the season. I feel he has a lot to offer and is easily good enough to be part of our squad next season.

I think Dirk deserves a little more credit than that. Although he may not be the most creative or prolific of attackers he does provide a lot to the team. I'm not going to say he would be my first choice out of all the players in the world but he has proved to be an effective player in the latter parts of the season. I feel he has a lot to offer and is easily good enough to be part of our squad next season.

Sorry but I'm just not in the same boat. If we want to be aiming for that title we have to have better quality on the wings. When was the last time we had real quality out wide? I mean real quality, John Barnes in his prime sorta quality? 15 odd years maybe?

You look at all the title winning teams of the last decade (more if you want) Every team has had top quality wide players.

Chelsea have Had Joe Cole and Arjen Robben
Manu have had Ronaldo recently and years gone past Beckham and Ryan Giggs.
Aresnal had Ljunberg, Pires.
We've had, Pennant, Gonzales, Nunez, Riise, and an injury ravaged Kewell and now Kuyt.

Anyone spot the difference there?

You can have world class in the middle (gerrard) you can have world class up front (Torres and previously Owen) but those players alone are not going to get you a title.

Look at United when they had RVN and Arsenal when they only had Henry, they didn't really have brilliant wingers it's only really the last 1 and a half season that Ronaldo has really come on leaps and bounds and Arsenal are still looking for that class out wide. Obviously they look to have found it with Walcott.

You must have those quality wide players capable of not only quality delivery but also being able to beat their man and have the confidence to go past them with pace. None of the attributes fit into dear old Kuyts play.

I really think that Pennant offers us more going forward. I think he showed alot of promise in the latter half of the season.

Unless we bring in some real quality on the wiings, we wont be challenging next season either.

I think you missed the point of my post kopkiwi. I'm not saying that Dirk is a world class wide player and should be first choice next season. I'm just pointing out that he has other qualities and has a lot to offer our squad next season. Hw works tirelessly up and down the pitch and offers a goal threat from wide positions which he has proved in the latter part of the season.

I really think that Pennant offers us more going forward. I think he showed alot of promise in the latter half of the season.

The fact that Dirk has kept Jermaine out of the team speaks volumes about his quality in my opinion. If Pennant really was a top class wide player the Kuyt would get nowhere near the first team.

I think you missed the point of my post kopkiwi. I'm not saying that Dirk is a world class wide player and should be first choice next season. I'm just pointing out that he has other qualities and has a lot to offer our squad next season. Hw works tirelessly up and down the pitch and offers a goal threat from wide positions which he has proved in the latter part of the season.

The fact that Dirk has kept Jermaine out of the team speaks volumes about his quality in my opinion. If Pennant really was a top class wide player the Kuyt would get nowhere near the first team.

What do you detemine to be a goal threat from out wide?

I mean Ronaldo, that's a goal threat. So is Joe Cole. Kuyt? Not a chance, sure he scored a few goals in the CL towards the end, but were two of those not massive deflections that otherwise would not have been goals.

I will admitt the guy is one fit mofo who would run more than anyone else in the league, but is that really what we need/want out wide?

Oh don't get me wrong, I don't rate Pennant anywhere near England national team class, let alone world class. And I think the fact Kuyt has been picked over him says more for Rafas selection policy and choice of tactics rather than the quality of the two.

I think Pennant showed he had something to offer, he took his goal bloody well against Fulham and I think was by far and away our most dangerous player that day. Infact towards the end of the season I think he was one of our better players. Bar the obvious choices.

Again I feel you are missing my main point about Kuyt kopkiwki. He is a very good player to have in the squad but I am not saying he would be my first choice in the right forward position next season.

What do you detemine to be a goal threat from out wide?

He is a threat in that he knows what positions to take up when the ball is on the far side of the pitch. He still has a strikers instincts to get into scoring positions.

Oh don't get me wrong, I don't rate Pennant anywhere near England national team class, let alone world class. And I think the fact Kuyt has been picked over him says more for Rafas selection policy and choice of tactics rather than the quality of the two.

Totally disagree. If Rafa thought Pennant had true quality as a wide player he would have played a lot more games this season. The point I made about Dirk's goal threat is one reason why I feel Rafa picks him before Pennant, as Jermaine can beat a player and put in a cross but he offers very little else in my opinion.

I think Pennant showed he had something to offer, he took his goal bloody well against Fulham

Key point of this sentence. Jermaine can look a world beater against the lesser sides but comes up short in most of the big games, where Kuyt has proved that in a difficult season he can have an influence in the big games.

Kuyt: The harderst worker in the premiership.
That tag dosent mean anything at all when you end the season with absolutely nothing. I would rather have a player who regularly scores in his position than have a player who runs around the whole pitch all match long. Not a big fan of Kuyt at all.

I agree with u completely that Kuyt is useless. I know some people have a point of view that has that aggressive performance and always runs behind the ball at the right of the pitch but I'm sure that Pennant can perform better than Kuyt and at the end of the day he scored 3 goals in the league.

If there are some fans that are convinced of his performance I think that this is our main problem that a big club as Liverpool and his fans accept players which I call " pseudoattackers ". I didn't talk about Voronin cuz he didn't have the enough chance but when he plays he does well.

but I'm sure that Pennant can perform better than Kuyt and at the end of the day he scored 3 goals in the league.

Pennant has scored only 3 goals since he has been at the club.

The only reason I can live with Kuyt being at Liverpool is because he has given me the funniest comedy moment of the season: When we were playing against Man U at Old Trafford, we were 3-0 down and I can remember Kuyt was running with the ball in a diagonal run towards the corner flag. .
As its mostly the winning team who always go to the corner flag towards the end of the match when they're wining - my brother who I was watching with made a joke saying: "Rafa must be watching thinking: We're 3-0 down son. We're not winning Kuyt, we're losing."

I dont think Kuyt deserves so much criticism no way in the world. People are saying we had Benayoun and Pennant, but both were given a chance on the right early on in the season and did F**k all. If i remember correctly Pennant started the season on the right and his run ended for him when he was sent off at Porto in the first game. In fact both were so mediorce that Rafa tried Voro on the right, this did not work out so by January when sh*t hit the fan he tried with Dirk and it worked out for us especially in Europe.

He did well and put his hand up to get down and dirty and did the hard yards. It seems that alot of us are forgetting the LFC way, we are starting to fantasise about splashing million ala Chelsea and Manure on so called "class and flashy" players. I am proud that we have players in our squad who are like Kuyt, who will put their hand up and do the hard yards beacuse that is the Liverpool way.

I'm beginning to become annoyed with the amount of critisicm Kuyt is getting, every couple of days in one of the threads somebody is slagging off Kuyt. Yes Voronin has scored more league goals than him but he hasnt scored more overall! also Kuyt has been out on the wing alot this season and has been putting in great performances where as Voronin has been a load of sh*t since the 1st 3 league games of the season and could'nt even get back in the team. Kuyt probably should more goals than he does given his scoring record in Holland but at the end of the day it doesnt matter who gets the goals just so long as we get the win and commited 100% performances!
Also why are people saying he is useless, ffs do you not remeber his great performances and his vital goals in the champions league this season? If he hadnt of scored against Inter then i am pretty much certain we would not have gone to the san siro with a 2 goal lead!

(rant over )

I'm beginning to become annoyed with the amount of critisicm Kuyt is getting, every couple of days in one of the threads somebody is slagging off Kuyt. Yes Voronin has scored more league goals than him but he hasnt scored more overall! also Kuyt has been out on the wing alot this season and has been putting in great performances where as Voronin has been a load of sh*t since the 1st 3 league games of the season and could'nt even get back in the team. Kuyt probably should more goals than he does given his scoring record in Holland but at the end of the day it doesnt matter who gets the goals just so long as we get the win and commited 100% performances!
Also why are people saying he is useless, ffs do you not remeber his great performances and his vital goals in the champions league this season? If he hadnt of scored against Inter then I am pretty much certain we would not have gone to the san siro with a 2 goal lead!
(rant over )

Would not have mattered as we won there anyway 

I guess what it comes down to is what we all expect to see from a winger. My perception of a right sided midfielder, is someone with pace who can go past defenders and deliver a deadley cross from the bi-line or cut inside and unleash a thunder shot at goal. Someone in the mould of Bentley.

Others might look at it and think, well I would rather someone who gives me 110% and covers every inch of the side line and tracks back. Fair play.

Or there is those players who can stand out there and ping in telling cross after telling cross, ala Beckham.

Unfortunatly as fans we are also adverse to looking at how we think the team should play and with which players we would get the best results.

We can all agree on one thing though, we all want whats best for the team. We just all have differing views on how to go about that.

I think the main thing that frustrates people about kuyt is the goals thing. i personally love him he plays with more effort and commitment than most strikers no disrepect to others thats just a compliment to him but i think people just feel he keeps others out of the team when they should be given a chance they dont even get a look in. I've never felt as sorry for a player as i did for crouch this season, that hurt alot as a fan to see him getting so little game time especially after last season and he has still managed to impress me this season with his goals.

I think the main thing that frustrates people about kuyt is the goals thing. I personally love him he plays with more effort and commitment than most strikers no disrepect to others thats just a compliment to him but I think people just feel he keeps others out of the team when they should be given a chance they dont even get a look in. I've never felt as sorry for a player as I did for crouch this season, that hurt alot as a fan to see him getting so little game time especially after last season and he has still managed to impress me this season with his goals.

I couldn't agree more. He really showed in the few chances he did get, that he is an asset to the team. He scored some important goals for us. At Arsenal amongst others. How he hasn't gone nuts is beyond me. It must frustrate him something chronic to see Kuyt play and start week in week out, not score at all and yet still not get picked.

I don't think you can judge any player purely on the number of goals he scores.  Kuyt has not been played in his 'natural' position, let's face it he was not bought to play on the right, but he has done a job there this season.  Voronin has not had enough games to demonstrate whether he could be a real goal threat.

The real question is, are either of these players good enough to play for LFC.  The only person's opinion that counts in this matter is called Rafa Benitez.  My opinion, for what it is worth, is that neither of them are good enough but I will trust in Rafa as he sees a lot more of them than i do.