Rafa going for a 4-3-3 next season?

Amid speculation that Barry will be a Kop and Alonso leave    this article from football365.com might make some sense:

"LIVERPOOL

Budget: The credit crunch has caused Tom Hicks to cancel plans to build a new stadium in Texas and has probably cut into Rafa Benitez's kitty as well. The Spaniard has cope to raise funds himself but his starting sum may be as little as £10m.

What's Being Said: "I'm sure we won't need too much. Our squad is much better and we maybe need to sign four or five players, but we will not need to spend big, big money. It is all about doing the deals at the right moment. I will not give you any names, but there are some players in the top sides who are not performing well and their cost was massive. If you want to win the title, you must spend millions and millions. It is not easy, so the key is maybe to sign the players that you need and the players that will make the squad stronger.

"...We have some signings for the next season done. They are senior players for the first team and young players for the first team and reserve team. Two of them are really close, young players, and one senior player is done. He talks good English, but is not English" - Rafa Benitez.

Liverpool's offer for Gareth Barry was revealing in two respects. Firstly, in the words of Martin O'Neill, "it was barely an offer", suggesting that Rafa Benitez has even less cash at his disposal than has previously been guesstimated. That suspicion was soon to be supported by Benitez publicly inviting Portsmouth to buy Peter Crouch for £16m, a stance that was tantamount to the Spaniard admitting that has to sell before he can buy.

Secondly, the apparent prioritisation of recruiting a central midfielder suggested that the introduction of a new formation was being considered. Benitez is already well stocked in the middle of the park, yet Barry's left foot would provide the perfect balance in the centrepiece of a 4-3-3 system that would see Javier Mascherano in the centre of the middle trio and Steven Gerrard to his right. It would be a formidable combination, as well as a system offering support to Fernando Torres.

If that is what Rafa has in mind - and it remains an 'if' - then his next move would be to hunt for a suitable right-winger. Dirk Kuyt is as much a willing trier as he is unsuited to the role, while the inclusion of Jermaine Pennant on the list of players offered in part exchange for Barry confirms that he has lost Benitez's faith. Another Arsenal refugee, David Bentley, would solve the problem.

With Crouch bound to leave and Andriy Voronin apparently on his way to Stuttgart, a support striker must also feature on Rafa's agenda. Yet the spine of his team - and squad - is first-rate. Daniel Agger is back in training and ready to compete against Martin Srktel to be Jamie Carragher's regular partner in the centre of defence, so Sami Hyypia's departure would be of little consequence.

Instead, Benitez's attention is likely to be focused on the pressing need to recruit wingers and full-backs of genuine quality. Udinese left-back Andrea Dossena is being sought, while speculation linking Wayne Bridge with a move to Anfield has never been quashed. One player definitely on his way is long-time target Philipp Degen, a right-back recruited from Borussia Dortmund on a Bosman free. Steve Finnan presumably joins the list of expendable assets at Anfield.

Yet the backdrop to all the rumour-mongering is the prolonged uncertainty over the club's ownership and the all-important matter of finances. Unless DIC's takeover is hurried through, and there appears to have been little or no progress in that regard recently, Benitez will have to raise his own funds for the four of five purchases he requires through crafty wheeling and dealing.

So far, the portents have not been promising. By valuing Crouch at £16m, he has only succeeded in persuading Pompey to cool their interest, while the £10m valuation of Scott Carson, which even the player himself has criticised, has caused Villa, already antagonistic towards Benitez, to look elsewhere. Benitez's desperation to raise significant funds is understandable, yet so far it has been counter-productive. An impasse has seemingly been reached and it may only be broken if he drops his prices. Potential buyers can afford to bide their time in the knowledge that it is Benitez who will surely have to blink first. "

I really think that Alonso will not be sold as when injury free he is very consistent and that Rafa likes to rotate the squad. We need two wingers and a good left centre back now.
Hopefully they will be the final jigsaws of the puzzle.

How do you think it will all shape us next season?

I don't get the assumption that if we trying to buy a player for as cheap as we can then we are considered poor :

As for the article I agree with what it talks in terms of formation and what I said before in another thread about if Barry comes just means Javi will hold back and do what he does best and I think Rafa is buying players to suit the system and why a players like Crouch and Pennant are going to be sold.

As for Rafa dealings I think he is just coining the prices quite high then when it comes time to talk prices he would like to give the illusion that he is doing them a favor by lowering the prices. The only thing I don't get is why we are going to be looking for high prices for Crouch and Carson when we have Alonso who is always being touted as going for 12m-14m range which is just dumb.

Also don't agree at the end where he says we need two wingers and a left center back.....we have a great left center back, his name is Agger. Though maybe he went to say Left Back.

Amid speculation that Barry will be a Kop and Alonso leave    this article from football365.com might make some sense:

"LIVERPOOL

Budget: The credit crunch has caused Tom Hicks to cancel plans to build a new stadium in Texas and has probably cut into Rafa Benitez's kitty as well. The Spaniard has cope to raise funds himself but his starting sum may be as little as £10m.

What's Being Said: "I'm sure we won't need too much. Our squad is much better and we maybe need to sign four or five players, but we will not need to spend big, big money. It is all about doing the deals at the right moment. I will not give you any names, but there are some players in the top sides who are not performing well and their cost was massive. If you want to win the title, you must spend millions and millions. It is not easy, so the key is maybe to sign the players that you need and the players that will make the squad stronger.

"...We have some signings for the next season done. They are senior players for the first team and young players for the first team and reserve team. Two of them are really close, young players, and one senior player is done. He talks good English, but is not English" - Rafa Benitez.

Liverpool's offer for Gareth Barry was revealing in two respects. Firstly, in the words of Martin O'Neill, "it was barely an offer", suggesting that Rafa Benitez has even less cash at his disposal than has previously been guesstimated. That suspicion was soon to be supported by Benitez publicly inviting Portsmouth to buy Peter Crouch for £16m, a stance that was tantamount to the Spaniard admitting that has to sell before he can buy.

Secondly, the apparent prioritisation of recruiting a central midfielder suggested that the introduction of a new formation was being considered. Benitez is already well stocked in the middle of the park, yet Barry's left foot would provide the perfect balance in the centrepiece of a 4-3-3 system that would see Javier Mascherano in the centre of the middle trio and Steven Gerrard to his right. It would be a formidable combination, as well as a system offering support to Fernando Torres.

If that is what Rafa has in mind - and it remains an 'if' - then his next move would be to hunt for a suitable right-winger. Dirk Kuyt is as much a willing trier as he is unsuited to the role, while the inclusion of Jermaine Pennant on the list of players offered in part exchange for Barry confirms that he has lost Benitez's faith. Another Arsenal refugee, David Bentley, would solve the problem.

With Crouch bound to leave and Andriy Voronin apparently on his way to Stuttgart, a support striker must also feature on Rafa's agenda. Yet the spine of his team - and squad - is first-rate. Daniel Agger is back in training and ready to compete against Martin Srktel to be Jamie Carragher's regular partner in the centre of defence, so Sami Hyypia's departure would be of little consequence.

Instead, Benitez's attention is likely to be focused on the pressing need to recruit wingers and full-backs of genuine quality. Udinese left-back Andrea Dossena is being sought, while speculation linking Wayne Bridge with a move to Anfield has never been quashed. One player definitely on his way is long-time target Philipp Degen, a right-back recruited from Borussia Dortmund on a Bosman free. Steve Finnan presumably joins the list of expendable assets at Anfield.

Yet the backdrop to all the rumour-mongering is the prolonged uncertainty over the club's ownership and the all-important matter of finances. Unless DIC's takeover is hurried through, and there appears to have been little or no progress in that regard recently, Benitez will have to raise his own funds for the four of five purchases he requires through crafty wheeling and dealing.

So far, the portents have not been promising. By valuing Crouch at £16m, he has only succeeded in persuading Pompey to cool their interest, while the £10m valuation of Scott Carson, which even the player himself has criticised, has caused Villa, already antagonistic towards Benitez, to look elsewhere. Benitez's desperation to raise significant funds is understandable, yet so far it has been counter-productive. An impasse has seemingly been reached and it may only be broken if he drops his prices. Potential buyers can afford to bide their time in the knowledge that it is Benitez who will surely have to blink first. "

I really think that Alonso will not be sold as when injury free he is very consistent and that Rafa likes to rotate the squad. We need two wingers and a good left centre back now.
Hopefully they will be the final jigsaws of the puzzle.

How do you think it will all shape us next season?

I think Rafa is pretty happy with our form using the 4-2-3-1 , and to be honest I like the football we play under this formation bettter the the 4-4-2 ( but thats more of an after thought). So I dont think he will paly a 4-3-3 next year all though it weill be worth keeping an eye on the formations he uses during the pre-season games.
I really dont think we need Alonso & Barry, and to be honest if I had to choose I'd pick Xabi anyway.
Perhaps Rafa thinks he can make a profit selling Xabi and buying Barry, perhaps he wants Barry cause he can also play as a wind back??? I dont know.
Anyway I think he will stick with 4-2-3-1 and if I was Rafa it would look like this:

                                                         Reina
Dengen ( if he's any good)        Carra                Agger / Skrtel                 Aurellio /   


                               Alonso                          Mascherano




? ( world class winger )          Gerrard                                   Babel

                                 
                                                     Nando



I would be happy with that, especially if that right winger is Franck Ribery




 
     

Yes, that formation is what I've been calling for all season sjkreds. Rafa actually started using it, and I think he'll continue to do so whether or not we sign Barry. I see Barry as a direct replacement for Alonso, and to be honest I'd prefer to have Alonso.

The article is probably right, we'll be going for some variation of 4-3-3 that becomes a 4-5-1 without the ball. Their guesses on where we'll sign players for is probably spot on too, a left back, winger and perhaps another support striker if Voronin and Crouch leave.

Didn't really explain anything, I think all of that was pretty clear all along.

I'd be delighted if we keep that system going next season it certainly made for some exciting watching when it was employed this year. In my opinion Babels best work will be done on the wings the lad is lightning quick and if he can add a bit of quality to his delivery he'd be virtually unplayable. Maybe we should go for a naturally left footed winger and switch Ryan to the right for balance

I agree SuperSkrtel. I was delighted to see him change to our current formation. Rafa has to stay with it. It would be a shame if he changed it again next season to 4.3.3. The players seemed to be getting to grips with it,especially towards the end of the season. We have the right players for 4.2.3.1.The only downside to it i feel is Gerrard in some games seemed out of place. He somtimes saw very little of the ball. We seemed to bypass the midfield at times,hitting long balls up to Torres.Masch and Alonso need to pass the ball quicker.Getting the ball out wide instaed of hoofing the ball 30,40 yards up the field.

4-2-3-1 will be the main formation we use next season in my opinion. But if we get a new striker i think it could be a 4-4-2 all depends who we buy and what rafas plans for babel and crouch are i think.

we need a good solid striker to make the formation work well. someone like Villa or that brazillian kid. moreno or whatever the name is. but is the money there? and i hope barry doesnt get brought in. i dont rate him

4-2-3-1 will be the main formation we use next season in my opinion. But if we get a new striker I think it could be a 4-4-2 all depends who we buy and what rafas plans for babel and crouch are I think.

Totally agree.

The way things have gone last season, combined with speculation with Bentley, I'd presume Babel would stay on the left with Kuyt moving up just behind Torres if it went to 4-4-2. Or even Kuyt on the left with Babel moving up front. But I reckon the 4-2-3-1 will probably be the main formation.

Think it's fair to say Crouch might be gone by next season?

Who knows though.

4-2-3-1 will have to be the main formation after the sucessfull run in to end of season
really hope we dont carry on using it against the bottom half of table teams as i think id prefer to see a 4-3-3 or   4-4-2  with a diamond in the middle as we need to do away with all the draws and with masch dont need another defensive mid.
Back 4 are looking solid too if we get Dossena so should be able to rely on them and allow the mid to push up and add to stricking force.
Need to sort out that right wing with "quality" - (rafas fav word)

I think whether we sell alonso and get barry or not also affects next seasons formation. Im hoping we keep xabi as this will help us to progress well next season in my opinion. We arent going to find a better deep lying playmaker for the fee we are being offered for xabi so i think we should ensure he remains. Xabi and Mascherano compliment one another well and i think there are a very important part of the 4-2-3-1 formation we have been using, given better wingbacks and wingers (which seems to be exactly our target this transfer window) we could really become a serious attacking threat which would see us draw alot less games during the season and win alot more.

Rafa will stick to his 4-2-3-1. Its popular amongst Spanish and South American sides and is Rafa's choice formation when he managed all his clubs, most notably Valencia. After 4 years of spending he is finally able to employ his formation and wont be shifting anytime soon IMO. He will look to upgrade his players, for sure, but to switch to say a 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 would seem somewhat unnatural with our game.

Valid point crouchinho I believe Rafa has already settled with the formation we have seen these past few years and will just rotate a higher calibre of players next season if he gets the right funds to fend of other clubs interested in our targets that is.

Yes, that's right, it's the system he used to good effect at Valencia, and seems to be becoming the norm for the top four clubs in the Premiership. Arsenal, Utd and Chelsea all only use one striker nowadays, but the problem for us has always been that we haven't had a good enough man to do the job. With Torres we've now got a player more than capable of playing that role, and as has been said, all we need to do is 'upgrade' the weaker players we have in certain positions now, rather than having to buy players in a system Rafa didn't really want to play.

I think the difference with valencia and us was they had stronger wide players and a playmaker in gerrards position rather than an all rounder in stevie. They played the football arsenal get so much praise for nowadays quick sharp passing and their attacking play tore teams to bits. This is the main reason i believe in rafa so much, we have all (or most of us) seen how good his valencia team were and i believe he can get us playing better football with better players given what he wants which isnt even alot its just serious backing which we as a club need anyway.

I think 4-2-3-1 is probably the best formation for us but i do worry about babel, i think he will eventually get fed up on the left and may seek a move in time if he is forced to play out all of next season in a wide position rather than through the middle. He really doesnt seem to like it playing out wide and doesnt look confident their but as soon as he gets a bit of time in the middle he's more wiling to attack and more often than not scores. His situation reminds me of theo walcotts current one and i cant see either of them getting what they want due to the manager knows best thing. Babel seems desperate for a game upfront but with 4-2-3-1 he has no chance of pushin torres out of that striker spot and even if torres got injured (touch wood he doesnt) crouch or kuyt or a new striker would still be ahead of babel in the pecking order it seems. I think playing both babel and torres upfront would be lethal and would guarantee goals, both deadly in and around the box but it doesnt seem likely to happen.

I can see your point with Babel lil cisse but he must of known when he came to Liverpool that he was going to play the left because that is where he has been played for most of the season. It isn't like Babel was always playing upfront then was pushed to a wide position like what happen to Kuyt.

If we are going to be the 4-3-3 then Babel best position IMO is playing off the lead striker like Torres. In that formation he is given the freedom to cut in and cut out wide when he wants. You also have to think we get a new LB who is good pushing up to provide the width in attack then it will let him have more freedom to do what he wants with the ball and his runs.

The 4-5-1/4-3-3 is pretty much the same thing only one formation is more for attacking and the other for defending. Just depending really on how well we are playing on the night. If indeed we are going to play a 4-5-1 then you want out-and-out wingers and selling someone like Pennant and keeping Yossi who is more of a attacking mid give me the idea we are going to look at more of a 4-3-3. Also the fact we got one really attack minded full back and looking at another LB who is suppose to be attack minded from what I read then that is where the width is going to come from in the 4-3-3

I think that we will play 4-3-3 next season, with 3 midfielders