Competition amongst centre backs

The situation with the centre back position is very interesting as we have got four top quality centre backs who all have an excellent case for playing in every match (apart from Hyypia  who can't play every mathc due to his age of course). Yet of course none of them can all  play every match,

Carragher: He is an excellent centre back and im sure that he does not want to be selected in the right back position. Although he can do a good job at right back his game flourished when Rafa put him in centre back. However next season Dengen may now deny this happening again in the future.

Skrtel: He's has already had a taste of the playing near to regular football with Liverpool. However with Agger coming back into contention next season, he may have to bide his time. Also although I know tha Rafa had been tracking the guy for a while before he signed him, I just wonder that if Agger was fit and playing, would Rafa have still signed him at the JAnuary transfer market.  He has been an excellent signing...forget Vidic, this man is the real deal.

Agger: It has been a hugely frustrating season for him. Now he has to start all over again from the beginning to stake his claim for the centre back spot. He has been excellent whenever he has played for us. Yet Now he has got extra compettion in Skrtel

Hyppia: An absolute legend in my eyes and would love it for him to reach the 500 game milestone. But surely Rafa will give him fewer games than he did last season.


and of course there is Hobbs is the promising youngster can he get a look in at all with such depth of talent in that position. Will he be patient enough to bide his time.

So what do you think, it will be such a headache for Rafa next season to pick two centre backs. Of course this an ideal situation for a manager but to keep every one happy is another issue to consider. Obviously Skrtel and Agger will become the future partnership but that is later in the future. It is certaintly competitive and I feel we have better players in the centre back department + better depth than the other big four clubs. What will Rafa's strategy be?  I will be interested to see how this competition develops... as it is exciting for the club.

Nobody can be picked on merit, this is a fresh season and the slate starts clean for all, so the centre halves (like every position) have gotta be picked on how they perform in pre season and training, but also what will benifit the team most.

My ideal pairing would be Carra and Agger but if either aren't performing up to a standard required for Liverpool Football Club then they can't be picked on what's happened in the past and must be dropped. With this being such a massive season we can't afford to carry passengers or let sentiment creep into a player keeping his place.

I think that the first choice defence line up will be

Arbeloa Carragher Agger Dossena

Skrtel and Agger will fight it out largely for the LCB position but Agger will be the starter during pre-season to get his fitness levels back up and let him get a feel for the defence and first team football again. I think sami will be used less next season as hopefully there will be no more big injuries to our players, sami will get a good few games though, he is still a world class centre back.

With the 7 subs being introduced next season Hobbs will be in the squad quite alot I think. I do think Carragher will be rested more next season aswell and rafa will experiment with the Agger Skrtel partnership which is a good thing as I feel it will become our CB partnership for the future. Carragher is still first choice though, it is largely who partners him. Good problem for the manager though most certainly, 5 fantastic centre backs and another one in the reserves too.

Good idea for a topic by the way mate.

I do think Carragher will be rested more next season aswell and rafa will experiment with the Agger Skrtel partnership which is a good thing as I feel it will become our CB partnership for the future.

I understad what you're saying but the centre half position is one you don't really mess around with. You need regularity in that position and swapping and changing every five/six games isn't gonna help. I know people will come back and say "try them out at Hull at Anfield" but when Hull visit Anfield they'd be lucky to get in our half so it wouldn't be a test for Skrtel/Agger and find out if they can partner each other. I think it should be a set pair for the season.

On the other hand anybody thought three at the back like under Evans? Carra, Agger and Skrtel?

I do think Carragher will be rested more next season aswell and rafa will experiment with the Agger Skrtel partnership which is a good thing as I feel it will become our CB partnership for the future.

I understad what you're saying but the centre half position is one you don't really mess around with. You need regularity in that position and swapping and changing every five/six games isn't gonna help. I know people will come back and say "try them out at Hull at Anfield" but when Hull visit Anfield they'd be lucky to get in our half so it wouldn't be a test for Skrtel/Agger and find out if they can partner each other. I think it should be a set pair for the season.

On the other hand anybody thought three at the back like under Evans? Carra, Agger and Skrtel?

Well its likely to happen so it doesnt matter. Neither of them will settle for being benched all the time and they shouldnt need to either. Cant see Agger or Skrtel being benched all the time to be honest can you ?

For me it will be Agger and Carra when available and fit. At the beginning of the season though i do see Carra and Skrtel playing most, Danny needs to get back playing footy before being stuck in to the side. Sami will have very limited opportunities if the other 3 stay fit. So for me i would go for:

Arbeloa   Carragher   Agger   Dossena

Or as Ed said in another topic we could use the attacking powers of Degen and Dossena down the flanks as wingbacks when they settle in more, with them flooding forward out of attack down the flanks with Carra, Danny and Marty all playing.

            Skrtel    Carragher   Agger
Degen                                           Dossena
                   
Or switch Skrtel and Carra around if you'd like.

I wrote a little bit about the situation when we were discussing the team set up for next season so I am going to repeat my-self a bit.

Carra for me last season started to show his age, there was times where he was holding on to players in the box and looking like he lost half a step (though he was never fast but really not as slow as Sami). I really don't know if sort of downfall will continue this season as with a little bit with Carra and a lot with Finnan the season that just past.

I think coming into the new season the spots will be there to be won and I think Agger comes in and plays like he did his 06/07 and the start of the last season and Sktrel plays like he did last half a season I really think Carra is going to have a tough time getting into the squad every game. I would like to see Rafa start playing both Agger and Skrtel a lot more because they are the future of the club in that position and I think the time is now to start working this relationship. It is always hard to say leave a player which is such an important figure for the long time but I think next season will be the blooding of the new pair.

Of coarse my view is on the premise that all will be on form and never hurt which is never going to be the case and you always play the players who are on the best form but this is my view all thing being equal.

As far as Sami goes he is great cover, I think due to injury we really asked a lot of Sami who delivered a good run of form for a majority of the season but I think with him making less appearances that his quality of performance will be high all the time he plays because he will always be fit and I think he has the right mind set to come in and do the job when needed.

One thing I don't want to see is major rotation in this position. You get any pair made up of Carra, Skrtel and Agger that is on good form then you have to run with it because it is very important to keep this part of the spine combine with the keeper bar injury/terrible run of form

I think its a good thing to have competition between players to start, and it will fire them up.
Personally I would like us to stick to whatever combination is working, and not swap them aroud too much.. We could play with 4 at the back like this:

    Arbeloa---Carra-----Agger----Dossena

or with three at the back like this
     
         Skrtel----Carra----Agger

If we played with 3 at the back our formation would have to be something like

       Skrtel------Carra-------Agger
          Masch-----Barry/Alonso
          Babel------------Gerrard
          Torres----------Kuyt?Villa?

Or three in the middle, and one striker.
But this depends on who we sign this transfer season, but competition between the centre backs can ony be a good thing.

I look at the riches we have at the centre of defence and with Mascha playing just in front of them and it adds up to a hell of a defence, I can't see to many problems whist we are fighting on four fronts the problem may come if we drop out of a few competitions but let's hope by then Rafa will know the best pairing, one things for sure make a few mistakes and there is world class cover to take your place and from that point it will keep the centre backs on their toe's.

Obviously it's better to have such a depth of quality as we have in this position, but it's still hard for me to imagine leaving on of them on the subs bench every week! We can't make Carra sit out, he's one of the best in the world as well as being one of the most dedicated and passionate. Skrtel deserves a starting spot too after all he has done for us since his arrival! He settled in so quickly and became one of our most dependable players, well worth all the money we put into him. As for Agger, he has impressed everyone and has been very unfortunate to be out so long due to his injury, and at full fitness he should be starting too!

The idea of playing all three has already been brought up in this thread, but this depends upon the attacking ability of our new signings, as yet unproven in the Premiership. It's an attractive thought though, as we would have three very solid and established defenders protecting in case of a counter attack whilst the others are able to get forward in larger numbers and greater width. This could work in our favour as the lack of natural width was missing this past season, and many an attack on our part was broken down due to players cutting inside too often and our play becoming somewhat predictable.

Seeing that we have just secured the services of Dossena, I really thing the selection at the back will be more like this:

                                                   Reina

                                Carragher                   Skrtel

            Dossena                                                              Degen

                                     Manscherano    Alonso

With the full backs being attack minded.

Seeing that we have just secured the services of Dossena, I really thing the selection at the back will be more like this:

                                                   Reina

                                Carragher                   Skrtel

            Dossena                                                              Degen

                                     Manscherano    Alonso

With the full back being attack minded.

Looks good, but what do we do with Agger once he's fit? (And shouldn't Dossena and Degen be on the other sides?)

Looks good, but what do we do with Agger once he's fit? (And shouldn't Dossena and Degen be on the other sides?)

Yeah exactly, what do we do with Agger once he is fit to play. It is becoming like a puzzle in that position and Rafa has got a tough job on his hands to decide  the best two centre back before each match. However there is such depth and array of talent that Rafa as well as the fans have got to be delighted with. To be honest, Im glad Rafa the manager because I would really struggle to chose who to pick.

Also just wondered , do you think we would have still signed Skrtel in JAnuary transfer window last season if Agger was fit and playing well?

Yeah exactly, what do we do with Agger once he is fit to play. It is becoming like a puzzle in that position and Rafa has got a tough job on his hands to decide  the best two centre back before each match. However there is such depth and array of talent that Rafa as well as the fans have got to be delighted with. To be honest, Im glad Rafa the manager because I would really struggle to chose who to pick.

Also just wondered , do you think we would have still signed Skrtel in JAnuary transfer window last season if Agger was fit and playing well?

I honestly don't know, but one thing I'm sure of is I'm glad he came! Carra is far from finished, but I see Skrtel in a similar mould - he's passionate and commited, always gives the maximum for every challenge, and isn't afraid to hoof the ball into row Z when needed! He'll be a great replacement the day Jamie retires, and I think he should form an excellent partnership with Agger when he's back on form.

I have to agree with a few comments here that possible rotation of the centre backs is a concern. We always seem to go on a decent run when the defence is settled. I'm wondering whether Rafa is considering using Carra more sparingly from now on, given that towards the end of some matches last season he got himself into trouble positionally and might consider himself lucky with a few penalty decisions. I see Skrtel as more of a ready-made replacement for Carra in terms of clearing the lines, with Agger being more gifted in distribution. If Agger is fit then, and he hasn't fallen out with Rafa as some have alleged, I think the back 4 for the biggest games will probably be:

Arbeloa -------    Carragher (Skrtel) --------   Agger  ---------   Dossena     

As for 3 CBs and 2 WBs - I don't think we'll ever see us starting a game with it. 3 CBs might be an option late on to defend the long ball when tactics have gone out the window (which Torres and others have identified as costing us big last season).   

Yup i was making this point when skrtel started to really play well last season, i though "you no what agger may find it hard to get back in here" But honestly i think that Carra will keep his place but unfortuantly this maybe his last season as a first team regular IMO

I expect San Jose to get a few games, probably subs and Carling Cup.

I've said it many times Mikel San Jose is going to be a treasure to our club - just needs to muscle up a little bit more now... reminds me so much of a young Alan Hansen.

I expect San Jose to get a few games, probably subs and Carling Cup.

I've said it many times Mikel San Jose is going to be a treasure to our club - just needs to muscle up a little bit more now... reminds me so much of a young Alan Hansen.

Yea i was talking to my mate (united supporter) and we were discussing the young prospects in our teams. He in fairness named a few good prospects (fabio, rafael and the 2 french guys) but we have soo much more like San Jose, Nemeth, Spearing to name a few

I wrote a little bit about the situation when we were discussing the team set up for next season so I am going to repeat my-self a bit.

Carra for me last season started to show his age, there was times where he was holding on to players in the box and looking like he lost half a step (though he was never fast but really not as slow as Sami). I really don't know if sort of downfall will continue this season as with a little bit with Carra and a lot with Finnan the season that just past.

I think coming into the new season the spots will be there to be won and I think Agger comes in and plays like he did his 06/07 and the start of the last season and Sktrel plays like he did last half a season I really think Carra is going to have a tough time getting into the squad every game. I would like to see Rafa start playing both Agger and Skrtel a lot more because they are the future of the club in that position and I think the time is now to start working this relationship. It is always hard to say leave a player which is such an important figure for the long time but I think next season will be the blooding of the new pair.

Of coarse my view is on the premise that all will be on form and never hurt which is never going to be the case and you always play the players who are on the best form but this is my view all thing being equal.

As far as Sami goes he is great cover, I think due to injury we really asked a lot of Sami who delivered a good run of form for a majority of the season but I think with him making less appearances that his quality of performance will be high all the time he plays because he will always be fit and I think he has the right mind set to come in and do the job when needed.

One thing I don't want to see is major rotation in this position. You get any pair made up of Carra, Skrtel and Agger that is on good form then you have to run with it because it is very important to keep this part of the spine combine with the keeper bar injury/terrible run of form

Top post mate, you echo my thoughts to a tee.

I too think Carra is getting on abit and when I mentioned it after a few games last year when he'd been vulnerable, people just didn't listen. I understand that it's hard to accept that such a legend is getting on a bit, but it's happening and I can see a slow, ageing defender becoming a liability next year. Admittedly Carra makes up a lot for that slowness with his anticipitation, but that's can only do so much. I'd like to see Agger and Skrtel build a patnership, as that combo is obviously the future.

Let's just hope Agger is fully fit next year. If so, he and Carra would probably just about be the number one combo. Should Agger not recover, Skrtel is more than able to step in.

Carra has never been quick and last year we were all praising how good Hyypia was, when he's as slow as a snail...ok maybe that's a bit unfair on the snail but Carra's lack of pace has had him shown up on many occasions, mainly by Arsenal. Every player is allowed a bad season or dip in form and since Carragher has been the best defender in England for a good five years before last season I think he was allowed that one bad year. I don't put it down to his lack of pace, just a one off.

This up coming season he'll be back to his solid best.

ya get a good rating for that post dunlop. pretty much sums up my feelin over carra's place in the team. his comittment is unmatched and he shows such passion for the club

Carra is our rock in defence. He is apart of the spine and that is something you just dont remove from the team. Pepe, Jamie, Stevie and Nando are our untouchables and you could add Masch to that. So that leaves Martin and Danny fighting it out for the LCB spot. Agger is a natural LCB, he and Jamie work in sync together and he is our way forward out of defence. No doubt for me that its Danny and Jamie to start on most occasions with Skrtel playing when one of them is changed.

i cant wait to see whats actually going to happen and having agger back will be like having a new signing

competition for positions is always healthy and could be the ingrediant that we have been missing for the last few seasons .
Every player wants to don the shirt and play every game evry week ,So you can  guarentee you will get 110% out of players if they know there position is underthreat.  IMO

just thought I'd bump this thread because of the "criticism" Carra was recieving in here compared to his form this year.

This season Carra has been 95% faultless (only the Leige game in Belgium and that mistake by playing everyone onside which led to the goal against Marsielle) and it just proves that last season was a one off. He and Skrtel have now got that understanding and look like forming the best partnership in the Premiership.

I will admit he proved me wrong by turning the clock and really started off the season this year much better than last season and I hope for it to continue throughout the rest of the season.

just thought I'd bump this thread because of the "criticism" Carra was recieving in here compared to his form this year.

This season Carra has been 95% faultless (only the Leige game in Belgium and that mistake by playing everyone onside which led to the goal against Marsielle) and it just proves that last season was a one off. He and Skrtel have now got that understanding and look like forming the best partnership in the Premiership.

Right on.

When we first bought Skrtel I do remember thinking that he'd be retiring to the back up position when Agger returned to full fitness. Since then he's been a revelation! An unknown to many of us when Rafa signed him, he's become one of our most dependable players.

I love his no-nonsense attitude, and although he often seems on the verge of commiting a foul he almost always manages to stay on the right side of the thin line between a full bodied challenge and an offense. A true professional, he's always prepared to put hid body on the line if needs be, throwing himself in front of a shot when he can! In that we he reminds me of Carra, the total commitment and unselfish attitude I mean, as well as the no messing about when he's the last man! Row Z and out of danger!

I suppose the only thing lacking is the attacking talent provided by Agger, though Skrtel has been showing the odd sign of coming forward now and again, with the odd run, and was even once crossing from the left wing against PSV! A classic moment, I loved it!

I do think that for the moment we need to stick with this partnership, as whilst it is working so well I don't see the need to change. Agger has far more competition for his spot now than I (and perhaps he!) imagined just a few months ago!