Of UEFA, Heysel, Hillsborough, Hicks/Gillet and More - the Tony Evans Interview

FROM KOPBLOG

TONY EVANS COMMENTS

ON UEFA, HEYSEL & HILLSBOROUGH

Definitely. Uefa is still putting big games into stadiums that are not equipped to cope with the crowds. In some respects, all-seater stadiums are more dangerous than terracing - when mass bunks take place, for example. Everyone’s standing but there’s an 18-inch trip wire in front of you - the seats. There are scores of problems Uefa need to address, from the corporate love-ins to ticket prices. The bottom line is that they treat the fans with contempt. We have emotional ties to our teams, but football’s rulers just see us as mugs to be fleeced for every penny. When they announced Moscow as a venue, my forlorn hope was that they’d get a Monaco v Porto type final with empty terraces and empty coffers.

As for being haunted by the memories, Hillsborough is the most difficult. None of us who lived through it will ever get over it fully. I’m still angry about 1984. Roma continue to stab and slash people. If a British club acted like they did, they’d have been closed down years ago. They are my second most hated club.

Heysel is more complex. I behaved badly that day. I was an angry, 24-year-old working-class boy who was determined not to suffer at the hands of ultras again. I never went with any thought of “revenge” - a word that’s cropped up over the years. What did I have against Juventus? If it would have been Roma I would have been looking for revenge, bloody right. I was wary and aggressive in Brussels, though. I’d seen Italian boys in action and wasn’t going to take any crap. Essentially, I was on a hair-trigger. There were a lot like me.

I hate all this stuff claiming it was Londoners, England hooligans or a National Front mob who caused the problems. If any of those people would have shown their faces, they would have been seen off pretty quickly. The reason people died was that a wall collapsed. But a chain of events led up to that point that, had any link been taken out, they would have gone home alive. The behaviour of some of our fans - me included - was a big link in that chain.

People are critical of me for saying this. Loads of people went, weren’t aggressive and saw none of the hostile undercurrent, I know. My mother, my youngest brother and my sister - both barely teenagers - were there and they did nothing to feel blameworthy about. My other brother was with me and was disgusted by how me and members of our group acted. We did nothing violent but were boorish, aggressive bullies. There were too many like me that day and it was very different behaviour from our usual demeanour in Europe.

I took the ordinaries to matches, drank in the Yankee and the Wine Lodge and moved in matchgoing - away matches, that is - circles. It wasn’t a hooligan culture but they were different days. It was a time of confrontation - picket lines, the city council, Troops Out marches - and that doesn’t even take into account going the match and bumping into the idiots looking for Scouse blood.

After I wrote about Heysel for the paper, someone on RAWK suggested I was an Evertonian making it up. I suppose this is a longwinded way of saying that the denial haunts me more than what I did. I wasn’t so bad. I was just a pr**k. But I did play a very, very small role in something that ended up with people dead.

For a lot of people, it seems to me, there wasn’t even any empathy until after 1989. Now there’s a new generation who think Heysel was nothing to do with us. It was. At least some of us.

ON STADIUM Vs TV

Yes. It will get worse. People are not forming the bonds with the clubs that we have. When I was 9, I’d go up the ground for 12, be first in at one and hanging over the fence at the front of the Anny Road for the rest of the afternoon. When Stevie Heighway took a corner, I could hear him grunt when he hit the ball. I was there, I could touch the atmosphere, was part of it. Why do I still love it? It’s because of that. Because I believe it’s my culture. Because it’s part of my identity. Can you get that from a telly?

The same with being at games. Even when you lose, you have adventures you can talk about for decades - you should come out and be bored by me an my mates still abusing each other about incidents half a lifetime ago. What adventures can you have in front of the television?

ON HICKS, GILLETT & LFC FANS

I feel angry and impotent. The last thing I’m interested in is who owns a club. I want what they want - to win - but for a completely different reason. They want it because it makes them money, I want it because it makes the people happy. The club was owned and run by small men with no vision or ambiton and they made it easy for the Americans . Why did Rick Parry not see what Arsenal’s directors saw: that a new stadium could make the club financially secure and all it would take was a relatively small loan and some balls? And then, to sell to men who would be exposed as dangerous by a google search? It frightens me. Nobody takes into account how important football clubs are to communities, what they symbolise, what they mean. Least of all the people who own the club now. These are dangerous times.

I’m impressed by the energy and creativity of our support. It’s always been there - football culture as we know it was shaped by our boys, after all. As well as that, the Reclaim The Kop innitiative was a step in the right direction. The Union can only be a good thing but everyone needs to get involved, no matter where they come from. There’s been a growing gap between the young Scouse fans and out-of-towners. It needs to be closed. I see the club as part of my Scouse heritage but, as far as I’m concerned, supporting Liverpool is right and proper wherever you’re from. Unity is crucial at the moment. Resist, resist, resist. Togetherness is just about the only weapon we’ve got.

Sadly, though, I don’t think the Share Scheme will work. Too much cash at stake. But the great thing is that people care enough to try.

ON MEDIA Vs LFC

No, I come from the opposite point of view. We’ve got so many friends in the media. There are Liverpool supporters everywhere in the sports departments and a lot of the writers have a soft spot for us. Of course there are always a few who come from the opposite angle, but by and large we’re well thought of. Sports department have traditionally treated the club and fans better than the front ends of the papers have treated the city. The number of writers who tell me how much they love going to Anfield never ceases to amaze. Our fans get great publicity. The thing is, we always remember the negative stuff.

Every set of fans think the media hates their club. There’s probably someone on Red Issue now saying The Times is biased against United because the football editor’s a Kopite. Well I am on a personal level but not professionally. The thing is, certain clubs are more newsworthy. We’re one of them. So there’s more coverage, both positive and negative, than you’d get for a small club (just to clarify for our Evertonian friends, I’m thinking of Stoke. Honest).

And there are times when every club attempts to deflect criticism by blaming the media. They blast you for a piece, saying it’s made up, even though they’re the people who gave you the story in the first place.

ON RAFA BENITEZ

I’m very wary of Shankly comparisons. I seem to recall “Are you Shankly in disguise” being sung to Houllier.
Rafa is his own man, with plenty to recommend him. He can be frustrating but he delivers success. Istanbul, the FA Cup, another final in Athens and a Riise brain fart away from another. Those who call for him to be sacked are deluded. He is very focused, ruthless and is a winner.

Last season was a disappointment but he was hanging on to his job by his fingernails for half of it. As for needing more money, he’s had plenty. The problem has been more about how he’s been allowed to use it. He feels his transfer policy has been obstructed. If he’s free to do as he pleases, he believes he will get the right people in.
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Interesting....... What do you think?

Agree with it except the money and media.

The media are against Liverpool massively. Even here is Aus. Liveprool Football Club is hacked on because of the stereotype of the city. Sometimes the sh*t that comes out of some people in the media shocks me (The S*n, NOTW - Beasley).

As for money, I'm sure someone will back me up with statistics, but he has not had the same freedom that Fergie and Wenger have and Mouinho had. Give him 60 million before player sales and then we can comment but untill then we cant.

Truthful and inciteful article,  I do have some major reservations about the last paragraph. The Times is not biased against the SCUM if anything they report very well on the Mancs and as far as the wider media is concerned, including sky sports and the s*n, they are pretty much very very negative toward us. Even some lowly half wit ex-players are very negative to the cause when in fact they should get behind the current team and not be so "oh we were well special in our day but the mistakes Rafa is making are this and that" (mark lawrenson and Ronnie Whelan Take note).
I also whole heartdly disagree with the points regarding that every set of fans think the media hates their club. The Manc loving sky pundits often  heep praise on the club so much so that the Manc supporters are often seen laughing and joking in interviews with Sky outside the ground, I really dont think there is much justification for this remark.

I do though however think the peices about Hillsbourough and Hysel are very true and I cannot even begin to comprehend the feelings or emotional turmoil because I wasnt there. He also writes truthfully about the way UEFA treats fans, in fact so truthfull are his statements I wonder what Platini would make of them?? Probably brush them under the carpet as usual.

As for his comments on the share scheme I do think he is in error on this part, because its passion that drives fans to be dedicated to making things like this a succsess, Exeter City have done this to great effect and so have Barcelona this is two ends of the spectrum and with the right people doing the right things it could work quite nicely.

It's a good read. He makes some excellent points, especially regarding the fans and the ownership issues! I also admire him for speaking openly about Heysel!

I think we all have the same feelings regarding money and the media, as I disagree with those two points!

He's right that Benitez hasn't been allowed to spend the money as he wishes, but that was mainly detrimental to the fact that we didn't have the money to give Benitez, so he's sort of left that bit out! :

And the media does seem to have a grudge against us! I'm not saying that the papers don't chat sh*t about other clubs but there seems to be this vendetta that all the papers seem to love rejoining every couple of weeks! (note this silly saga about Chelsea signing Torres at all costs at the minute, with all papers disregarding the fact that club representatives have came out and stated that no means no!)

Agree CRK with the Chelsea thing.

The media are powerful creatures. They have seen the way they can control a way a club is run (Jol's exit, Big Sam's exit, Ronaldo's exit to be, Rafa's job, Grant's job etc etc) and now its Torres' turn. The sad thing is, Nando came here because of his love for the club not the money (took a pay cut to come here) so it wont work this time media, give it up you filthy, dirty, scum bas**rds.

A valid point also in the selection of the Americans as the new owners; rather unfortunate the way things have turned out.