The 2008/09 Centre Back debate

Skrtel.
Agger.
Hyypia.
Carragher.
Hobbs.

You are Benitez.

Which two will knock up the most appearances this season?

Who are our best two choices?

The great Alan Hansen once said 'You don't rotate your centre-backs' and I for one am a big supporter of this idea.  Tinkering with your winger here and there is fine - they need to stay sharp and be able to put in a full 90 minutes of leathering up and down the pitch.  Centre-backs, for me, are a whole different breed.

Agger's a fine centre back but with missing practically a whole season, for me, he is the man with the biggest point to prove.  Carragher, to even dream of dropping Carragher would be tantamount to heresy?

Hyypia - he's past it isn't he? I doubt it.

While I expect Skrtel and Carragher to start the season, I have a sneaking suspicion it may be Skrtel and Agger who finish it. 

Funnily enough I think a fit Agger has more of a concrete place than Carragher. Whether you want to say thats tantamount to heresy or not, it's what I believe. Carra, much as I think he's an absolute legend and two years ago wouldn't have traded him for any other defender in the Premiership, no one can deny he's getting on a bit now. He's lost even more pace (not that he had a lot to begin with) and his excellent anticipation is starting to become a little tested. Last year there were several matches in which he had very poor games, and was put in situations where you could see very clearly he was uncomfortable and couldn't handle it, so he ended up giving away fouls. Now, the same really applies for Hyypia, even more so in fact, as he's older. Though he did very well last year, and had some sound games, he's not comparable to Vidic, to Terry or Carvalho, Toure or even Ferdinand. I think Agger has the quality to be a Carvalho/Toure-type and Skrtel is well on the way to becoming a Vidic sort of player. These quick(ish), strong, powerful and comfortable on the ball centre backs are what we need to progress. Carra and Hyypia are both very strong, but both lack a lot of pace, and neither is that good on the ball, so if we can't involve the midfield we tend to go long with hopeful balls played by centre backs who aren't good enough to pick a pass. Agger and Skrtel have both shown they can play fantastic passes, and have good vision from the back, which would only benefit the team.

I think I agree with you though JD, Rafa will go with Skrtel and Carra to start, and finish with Squirtle and Agger. In fact, that's what I'm secretly hoping for.

Jamie Carragher facing the Anfield scrap heap?

Maybe he should have stayed on with England after all.

I've gone for Agger and Carragher.

Although as much as I agree with the notion of sticking with two centre backs, I fear Carragher may well be switched about a bit or even rested now and again because of how Skrtel has proven to be a solid, no nonesense defender for us.

But as the first post suggests, if I was Rafa, I'd have Agger in because his ability to bring the ball out, pick out a good pass and create space is very valuable. And he's a very good defender with it.

Then Carragher, as much as he might be getting on a bit....? There is no doubt his leadership, no nonesense defending and reading of the game edges out Skrtel.

One thing we can be sure of though is that there's no room for sentiment with Rafa. And although I highly doubt Carragher will be subject to the bench as much as Crouch was last season, I'm quite confident that Rafa will want to test the partnership of Skrtel and Agger sometimes.

Hopefully, the competition can only inspire our centre backs rather than hinder them.

If we're going for goals then you'd have to have Hyypia and Agger - both can weigh in with a handful of goals.

I fear for Jamie. I really do.

I think Carra will still be 1st choice because he is the one most of the defenders look to and he keeps the defence in line, he is also a leader and a key part of the team. Him and Stevie are pretty 1st choice no matter how many other players play in their posistion IMO because they are part of the spine and foundations of the team

Carragher and Skrtel will do for me. Agger has been out too long. But we may start playing three Centre backs and two wide full backs. kinda like this below

                                 Reina

                   Carragher    Skrtel    Agger

      Dosenna                                          Degen

Carragher and Skrtel will do for me. Agger has been out too long. But we may start playing three Centre backs and two wide full backs. kinda like this below

                                 Reina

                   Carragher    Skrtel    Agger

      Dosenna                                          Degen

Good point Solodee. I know I've been a bit confused at times when we've brought on a wide defender and taken a winger off, when our backs have been against the wall. But the three at the back idea with wide defenders playing more forward has been good for us with piling the pressure on. I don't think we'll see us starting many games with that formation but we might end a few games like that.

Regarding Agger being out for too long though, don't you think it's practically like having a new signing with the inside knowledge of how his team mates play?

If we're going for goals then you'd have to have Hyypia and Agger - both can weigh in with a handful of goals.

That's also a good point but surely we have to go for the defending first and foremost?

Carra and Agger simply because they compliment each other so well.

Jamie Carragher has never been blistering in terms of pace. He's still the best reader of the game we have, esepcially at the back. He organises that defence, I'm not sure Agger/Skrtel are yet ready to take the responsibilty of leader at the back. Both still bein young and that. Carra doesn't shy away from that responsibilty, he gets the defence sorted. It's on his order the defence pushes up to play the offside and when they sit back. He is a must in any Liverpool side. Young defenders will learn much quicker of playing along side Carra than any other of our defenders, including Sami. Carra also has the ability to get other players out of trouble. If the balls given away cheaply, you can put your house on Carra being there to mop up. His bravery to go into every tackle is somethin none of our other defenders have either. Skrtel is solid and certainly not afraid of puttin his body on the line, but not the way Carra does.

Agger for me has to be the other choice. We need that contrast in styles. We need to be able to play from the back as well as hoof it into row z. Agger's ability to see the play and then use that ability to put in a raking diagonal pass is excellent. He's shown that he can bounce back as well, those semi finals against Chelsea in 07. First leg Drogba ran him raggered, but back at Anfield he showed how good he is. Danny Agger for me is the best young defender in the world. If he can stay fit these season and put that injury to the back of his mind then we're on for a bloody good season.

Sayin all that, the amount of games we play during a season, there'll be more than enough chances for everyone to prove themselves. It's a good position for Rafa Benitez to be in. To be able to pick from the two greatest defenders this club has had post 2000 (carra an sami) as well as two of the best young defenders in the game (agger an skrtel) as well as a few up and comin lads who are the future of this club (hobbs an san jose) Healthy competition.

I actually cant decide but what i will say is i hope our defenders dont get annoyed with being benched alot because centre backs should really be rotated much.

As I said in another thread I have the bad hunch that they will be rotated depending on who they are playing. Hope I am wrong but I just think Rafa just loves the tactical battle of it and with all the options we have.

If I was the manager I would really start the blooding of the Skrtel-Agger partnership. I thought Carra shown his age a little but last season and I dunno if he will continue this trend this season we will have to see.

I think we can all agree that we like Carra, he has nothing but loyalty towards LFC and he is a great defender and leader on the field, i think Carra with his experience will play next to skirtel and they will police the middle, i think hyypia is just about passed it he has lost some pace and gets past way to easy especially with the new quick strikers around, he is still pretty strong and good in the air but i think its time for him to move on now with agger skirtel and Carra there isn't much place for him. saying that i agree that you can not rotate the central defenders they need to build up a relationship and communication that central pairs need to function as a solid unit. with skirtel and agger being still very new to the team i cant see the gaffer dropping Carra you need experience in the center and that is what Carra offers as well as being a superb defender.

IMO , I think it will be Carra and Skrtel.  For starters JC has been there done that. Sure he might be getting a bit slower but how many times has he been there in the crunch times, how many goals has he saved with a last ditch tackle, a toe to knock it out just when we thought the other team were certainties to score. You just can't replace that overnight and I think Carra will be the main stay in the central defensive partnership this season.

Skrtel will be alongside him because he's just one mean mother that scares the sh*t out of opposition defences. I just don't thing Agger will start as much as Skrtel. Not for the first few months anyway. Agger's just come back from nearly a season off and as good as he is and as good and comfortable as he looked against Tranmere, with all due respect it was only Tranmere. He's going to have to get used to the pace of playing in the top flight again and I feel it will take more than just a few friendly matches for him to get up to scratch.

One thing I do know is that they are an awesome back 3 ....can't wait to see how our new RB & LB go alongside whoever RAFA decides to play in Central defense.

 I voted for Skrtel and Agger as the centre backs for the reason I think Carragher has the experience to fit in anywhere across the back.I do like solodes idea of the 3 playing across the back with the 2 full backs out wide.

Carra and Dagger. Just the perfect partnership to me. Jamie is the no nonsense, clear it, old school defender who you can rely on 100% of the time and Dagger is able to bring out the ball and link defence to midfield.

I'm surprised people are doubting Carra, he is an untouchable and part of the spine, you dont mess with the spine of the team.

We were all over the shop without Danny, he is a rock.

Just hope Martin doesnt threaten Rafa.

Daniel Agger & Martin Skrtel

I choose these because i believe these are the dream partnership you have Agger who loves to get forward create chances and allow other people to get forward but again still a great defender then you have Skrtel a monster and one of the best center backs  in England so i choose these 2

i wouldnt drop Carra though he would start right back or Agger would start Defensive Mid maybe 

This is a real tough one, went for Carragher and Agger in the end but Skrtel will surely get a decent amount of games.

I believe Skrtel and Agger if they become our centre back partnership this season will stay there but it is unlikely since Carra is at his high peak.

I'm going for Jamie Carragher and Dan Agger, as I think these two are the best pair, especially in important games. That's not taking anything away from Skrtel, who I think did an amazing job last season and will obviously only get better. But he has time on his side, and Jamie, as wonderful as he is, has started to slow down ever so slightly.......his experience though,  just like that of Sami's is essential in those all important European games and League games against the top sides.

Although I expect as the season wears on, to see a bit more of Skrtel replacing Jamie as I can see him tiring, unless of course Rafa rotates, and what about Sami?  I'm sure Rafa will give him a few games, I'd like to think that depending on the opposition, Rafa will play who he thinks will be best suited.

Don't want to much rotating around though  :

Interestingly

Hyypia - Carragher take a lead with 1 joint appearance.

Surprised.

Hyypia - Carragher take a lead with 1 joint appearance.

Are we not counting Wednesday then?

Are we not counting Wednesday then?

No.

I think its pretty much certain Carragher will be 1st choice centre back

Daniel Agger..... remember when he used to play for us?

Interesting eh.

hmmm tricky this one and I would go with Carra and Skrtel.

My reasons for this are that we all know Carra is a leader, a role model and every defence needs someone with these kind of skills.  Skrtel has impressed ever since he played like his 3rd or 4th game after a shaky start at the back and has kept the quality there and provided Rafa a constant head ache in the selection process whereas we all know Agger is a great, pacey centre back who would provide great cover for any of the two.  I have feeling that we may see every possible combination this season.

I want to see Agger play again!

I will go with carra & skrtel, but like k.kenny said i want to see agger play, he wasnt on the bunch.

I want to see agger play, he wasnt on the bunch.

The munch bunch 

He wasn't on the bench either 

Sorry Clint, I'm being facetious 

So where is Dan, does anyone have any news of him?

The munch bunch 

He wasn't on the bench either 

Sorry Clint, I'm being facetious 

So where is Dan, does anyone have any news of him?

Maybe his head chef has gone AWOL and he was needed for lunchtime service. 

skirtl is simply better than agger, but its close, in the long run it will be skirtl and agger, what great bargains, if we had have bought english players it would have cost 4 times as much

jamie c is the main one for now, but he is versatile and getting older now. but he is class

so jamie and skirtl with a change in 2 years to agger and skirtl

Agger will be back soon. His injury was a lengthy one we all know that, he is fighty his way back into the side, lets be honest skrtel is in fine form this season and has been playing excellently.

Im hoping we will get to see the Skrtel Agger partnership properly for the first time in the carling cup game

I have gone for Carragher and Skrtel. Agger should provide good competition, Hyypia can still be useful against smaller teams if Rafa wants to rotate, and hopefully Jack can get some games in the League Cup (starting with Crewe), FA Cup, and maybe the Premiership as well!

hopefully Jack can get some games in the League Cup (starting with Crewe), FA Cup, and maybe the Premiership as well!

Jack Hobbs is out on loan at Leicester Frankie. 

Opps... forgive the newbies! Didn't realise it while typing.

So one eye on Hobbs and David Martin at Leicester

Interesting thread. I've gone for Jamie and Skrtel.

Was like the hardest decision in the world. Agger can certainly come out with the ball and be more creative, but I feel that Skrtel will edge it.

I'll probably be miles off mark though. I hope Agger get's more games.

two fantastic players we are lucky to have, i believe they are our future center backs when carra hangs up his boots at 40 ish
i would like to see agger playing now he is such a great player to have he can score goals and reads the game like sami and is also classy  like hansen
then theres skrtel solid no nonsense takes no prisoners gets on with the job, but what about carra to good to leave out of any team,
he could play at right back hes not as quick as "bob" but can and has put some great crosses in to the box when hes gone that far.
its a nice problem to have but dan is just too good to have on the bench so what do you do?

When worse comes to worse you have to play them all. That means Carra at right back. I'm not a fan of it but if it means we get to keep Danny then by all means we have to.

Agger and Marty will be our partnership of the future and we have to make sure Danny is here to foresee the long term plan.

Massive blow if we lose him.

Why the hell ask this question?

For the time being Skrtel is in on merit. After that, who knows? Agger's a gem, but the team are keeping clean sheets and winning. So he'll have to wait his turn.

Why the hell ask this question?

For the time being Skrtel is in on merit. After that, who knows? Agger's a gem, but the team are keeping clean sheets and winning. So he'll have to wait his turn.

Is right.

I voted for Carra and Skittles because they are playing well at the moment so deserve to be in the team.

Agger has done nothing wrong but neither have the other two - and they are wearing the shirt at present.  His time will come.

So erm... stewards enquiry.

Voting locked now.

Unlikely to be Skrtel putting in the most apps.

Depending on the outcome tomorrow we may see Jack Hobbs returned.

And what happens with the UEFA team?

Hyypia was left out remember.

We've only got two centre backs for European games.

sh*t.

So erm... stewards enquiry.

Voting locked now.

Unlikely to be Skrtel putting in the most apps.

Depending on the outcome tomorrow we may see Jack Hobbs returned.

And what happens with the UEFA team?

Hyypia was left out remember.

We've only got two centre backs for European games.

sh*t.

Oh sh*t, the possible impact of that is now dawning on me, I'm praying to god the Carra an Dagger don't get injured to January now.

As for the CB debate, well not likely that there can be much debate about who starts now can there, Agger and Carra for the whole season really.

So im guessing Agger and Carra will be 1st choice now

So erm... stewards enquiry.

Voting locked now.

Unlikely to be Skrtel putting in the most apps.

Depending on the outcome tomorrow we may see Jack Hobbs returned.

And what happens with the UEFA team?

Hyypia was left out remember.

We've only got two centre backs for European games.

sh*t.

Agger will fill in in the CL/PL and Hyypia can fill in against the smaller Pl teams.

Cover for the Champions League?

If something does happen to Carra or Dagger will they put Arby centre-back and put Stephen Darby in right back?  Can Doss or Aurelio play centre-back?

Potentially worrying.  Especially seeing as Agger is still slowly returning from a huge lay-off and there must be doubts over his fitness because Rafa has hardly used him.

Cover for the Champions League?

If something does happen to Carra or Dagger will they put Arby centre-back and put Stephen Darby in right back?  Can Doss or Aurelio play centre-back?

Potentially worrying.  Especially seeing as Agger is still slowly returning from a huge lay-off and there must be doubts over his fitness because Rafa has hardly used him.

Agger didn`t suddenly forget how to defend.he`s played in internationals and reserve games since his recovery and is very capable of playing in the CL.
The next big CL game will be after we Qualify for the last 16.Agger will have played about 12 games by then.

I didn't say he forgot how to defend.  I was wondering what would happen if either of them got injured.

It's possible that Skrtel could be fit for the knockout stages. We'll know by tomorrow anyway. Fingers crossed.

We`ve loads of options.Abeloa has filled in at CB before.Hobbs could be recalled and we need two of Carra,Agger and Hyypia to get injured before we have a major problem.

I really hope so! It's potentially a full season injury though so I won't hold my breath!

Then again, it's Skrtel. He'll probably knock one of the Doctors out and get someone to pop it back in so he can play against Wigan!

I really hope so! It's potentially a full season injury though so I won't hold my breath!

Then again, it's Skrtel. He'll probably knock one of the Doctors out and get someone to pop it back in so he can play against Wigan!

Most players come back earlier than the Press claim they will.The London Media are just trying to piss on our parade.They`ve lost loads of back page headlines because we`re doing well.Anything negative they can print,they will.

We`ve loads of options.Abeloa has filled in at CB before.Hobbs could be recalled and we need two of Carra,Agger and Hyypia to get injured before we have a major problem.

You clearly haven't paid the slightest bit of attention to the question I was asking.

Hobbs (who is on loan) and Hyypia - neither of them are in our UEFA Squad.

Now Skrtel is out for the rest of the season so its Agger and Carragher.

You clearly haven't paid the slightest bit of attention to the question I was asking.

Hobbs (who is on loan) and Hyypia - neither of them are in our UEFA Squad.

After I answered your CL question I widened the Centre back disscussion to all games in the future.you must have missed that.

rafa will buy a defender in jan, we are linked with that brazilan not sure of his name. Agger is one of the best in the world and will walk into any team, it just a shame sumin like this happends for him to get his place back. get wel soon Skrtel.

Now Skrtel is out for the rest of the season so its Agger and Carragher.

Hyypia is still alive.

rafa will buy a defender in jan.

We don't need another defender.  At least Real Madrid can stop spouting their bullshit now.  They've definitely got no chance on Agger.

I think Rafa should recall Hobbs straight away to be honest. 

Dont need to buy another CB. I agree with JD, bring back Hobbs asap.

Although it could be a good time for San Jose to try and stake a claim.

We don't need another centre half in the transfer window and personally I don't think we need Hobbs back from Leicester.

If we get another long term injury to one of our centre halves then Sami will come in, so alls Hobbs would be doing is sitting on the bench which I'm sure San Jose/Ayala/Huth can do just as well. Also I'm pretty certain Antwi's loan at Tranmere is until the end of December which means he'll be back soon.

We should allow Hobbs to get vital first team experince at the Walkers Stadium because next year he will be in our first team plans and if we bring him back now he'll only be sat on the bench. The only chance he'd get a game at Anfield this year is if two of our three centre halves pick up long term injuries as well and the chances of having three long term injuries to four central defenders in one year are pretty slim. Leave Hobbs where is he as Sami can cover for Carra or Agger while the rest of our youngsters can do a job if we get to our bare bones.

I don't think Carragher is having a blinding season by any stretch of the imagination this year.

This all depends on Agger and how well he performs. 

I'm not sure how much sentimentality Rafa gives to the 'local lads' - but I would suspect that Skrtel usually would be the first name down on the teamsheet if you were picking our centre-backs.

So the question is - even if Daniel Agger played phenomenally - was our man of the match for the next 10 games - can anybody see Rafa dropping Carragher instead of Agger when Skrtel returns?

I think Carra's been back to his solid best, not the last ditch tackles we're used to but has rarely put a foot wrong this year (domestically) whereas in Europe both goals have been faults of his. Playing the fella onside in Marsielle and last nights misjudgement. The two games against Liege he hardly excelled either.

We've seen in the past Benitez isn't affraid to have a Premiership side and Champions League side, maybe Carra will only find his name in the Premiership one although I doubt that because Carra is one of those players who you know will come good when he has to.

As for Skrtel's return, it could be difficult because I don't think Carra will get dropped (I don't think Carra would allow himself to be dropped ) and Agger may refind some form so Skrtel may just have to wait. I don't think players can just be given their place back instantly, it does have to be earned. But we're looking a bit too far into the future, Martin isn't going to be fit until around Christmas so lets see how Dan Agger and Carra do in the meantime.

Bump this back up.

Who would have thought that Hyypia would have saw off the Agger challenge?

Only 3 people it would seem.

For the time being, if Rafa isn't willing to play Insua at left-back, put Agger there instead. Carra and Sami in the middle, and everyone's happy.

Job sorted, until Skrtel's back from injury of course! 

For the time being, if Rafa isn't willing to play Insua at left-back, put Agger there instead. Carra and Sami in the middle, and everyone's happy.

Job sorted, until Skrtel's back from injury of course! 

Spot on, it'll give Agger the oppurtunity to go forward which he appears to love to do so, he's not slow neither.

Agger+Skrtel

Carra and Skrtel are obviously first choice and it's causing uncertainty about Dan Agger's future. With only a matter of months left in the season, I don't see Agger regaining his place unless there's an injury to Carra or Skrtel. For the first time under Benitez we're in a title challenge so I don't see him starting to piss about with the centre halves for the league and I don't think Benitez will start to change his team too much for the Champions League either, not at this stage anyway. If of course we win in Madrid by three or four goals, we may see some changes for the return leg but it should be Carra and Skrtel for the first leg.

So it's looking likely that the 2008/09 centre back debate has been won by Carra and Skrtel. Resulting in Agger "looking" (and I use that word loosely) to move on.

Pretty annoying, when you think about it.

Carra days are getting fair numbered now, if Agger stays and plays well he should see his appearances increase and eventually he should cement his place in the first team. Not to mention if Skrtel got injured again, then he would have his chance again.

I don't think there's any need for Agger to leave Liverpool.

Agger and Skrtel.Carra as a right back and that would be nice.

Carra hasn't the pace to play right back he is one of the best centre backs in the world. Agger needs to admit to himself he hasnt been doing it and needs to address the reasons why.When he does get his chance he needs to take it and stop moaning he is not playing well enough to dislodge Carra Skyrtl or Sami for that matter.

For me it should be decided on current form/injuries at this stage of the season, so its Carra & Skrtel as far as I'm concerned.Sorry Danny you'll just have to wait your turn, it will surely come.