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      Are Bert and Ernie from Sesame Street running our club?

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      Glenbuck
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      Are Bert and Ernie from Sesame Street running our club?
      Sep 10, 2008 09:09:09 am
      I realise we have a takeover topic but this is more to do with what our current ā€˜custodiansā€™ are getting up to (or not as the case maybe) this piece in todayā€™s Guardian certainly puts into perspective  just how much of a financial farce Bert and Ernie have created at OUR CLUB!. Reading through it you wonder how nobody has called in for scrutiny the takeover as surely there must be some sort of body that can help sort this mess out before we go into meltdown?

      I see three options on the table the first is we are bought out by DIC and whilst I donā€™t see them as a cash machine they would surely clear the clubs debts when taking over. The second is the RBS refuse the odd couple anymore money and time and force them into action re: selling the club. And the third and easily the most dire of the three is that they bury their heads in the sand (a good start in my opinion!) and the club goes the way of Leeds, now whilst I think this is the less likely of the three it is a possibility so I really hope for all our sakes meetings are happening now.


      Stadium delay puts Liverpool on dead-end street

      Failure to begin building in Stanley Park hurts residents of run-down Anfield as well as damaging top-four hopes

      Manchester United's arrival at Anfield on Saturday for Liverpool's first match since the club's owners, Tom Hicks and George Gillett, failed to raise the money for a proposed new stadium, could almost have been timed deliberately to hammer home Liverpool fans' crushing disappointment with the North American duo.

      It was United's dominance of English football in the mid-1990s - eclipsing Liverpool, relentlessly expanding Old Trafford and wringing every last penny out of it - that drove Liverpool into their agitated search for a new and larger stadium. The only reason Liverpool were put up for sale was to find "investors" who would build the new stadium on Stanley Park, thereby pushing Liverpool's earnings somewhere near a level at which they would be able to compete with United. David Moores, the club's chairman and major shareholder, ultimately favoured the Americans over the rival billions of Dubai International Capital partly because Hicks and Gillett were more positive about their ability to get the stadium built.

      In their formal offer to take over the club, Hicks and Gillett wrote to all shareholders that they had: "Indicated [their] intention to take forward the Stanley Park development ... and to commence building one of the leading stadia in Europe as soon as is reasonably practicable." The offer document also made it clear that Hicks and Gillett had borrowed the Ā£185m necessary to buy the club, and another Ā£113m to pay off its debts and fund player signings. Instead of moving quickly to raise money for the stadium, last January the co-owners were refinancing those initial loans, taking out a Ā£350m credit facility with Royal Bank of Scotland. RBS now has a mortgage over Anfield, the Melwood training ground and every lock, stock and barrel owned by Liverpool Football Club. That Ā£350m has been borrowed just until this coming January, with the option to extend it only as far as next July.

      Sceptics argued that Hicks and Gillett, having brought so much debt to the club, rather than investment, would struggle to borrow another Ā£400m to fund the stadium, but Hicks denies that the club's indebtedness was a factor in the failure to do so this year. Instead, in a cursory statement last month, Liverpool blamed the credit crunch, saying "the building of the new stadium will be subject to delay" due to "global market conditions".
      No further explanation has been forthcoming from Hicks, other than that all large projects are affected by banks' current reluctance to lend. The revised aim is for Liverpool to kick off in the new stadium a year later than planned, for the start of the 2012-13 season. Even if that does happen, putting Liverpool Ā£750m in debt, by then United will have had four more seasons at their 76,000-capacity Old Trafford home; Arsenal will have had the same time at their lucrative new Emirates Stadium; and Chelsea will have had four more seasons enjoying the fruits of Roman Abramovich's largesse. Furthermore, Sheikh Mansour of Abu Dhabi is now threatening to make Manchester City into nouveaux riches contenders for a top-four Premier League finish.

      If Liverpool were to be knocked out of the qualification places for the Champions League, which earned them Ā£21.6m last season, their long tenancy of English football's first rank could be lost. Yet there is more to Hicks' and Gillett's failure to finance the new stadium than the challenge to Liverpool's footballing status. The new stadium on Stanley Park and plans to develop the current Anfield site into a hive of restaurants, shops and offices are central to plans to regenerate the area around the old ground, which, over the years, has declined into near-devastation.

      Anfield could currently lay claim to being the most economically unequal place in Great Britain. Around the Premier League club's famous ground are rows of shattered streets whose houses have stood empty and boarded up for years. Like many areas in formerly industrial towns and cities, particularly in the north-west, old jobs disappeared in the 1980s and people moved away. Houses, if they were occupied at all, were let short term to people who had no stake in the area. The terraced streets of Anfield and neighbouring Breckfield were blighted by crime and many houses were burnt out before being sealed with grimly familiar metal shuttering, a process known locally as being "tinned up".

      The area around Venmore Street, opposite the stadium, is, according to the Index of Multiple Deprivation, the most deprived local authority ward in Britain. Crowds of fans walk past its boarded-up terraces on matchdays and it is difficult to imagine that Liverpool's Spanish striker Fernando Torres, the very definition of a European golden boy, can be parading his multimillion-pound skills just over the stadium wall.
      The football club's role in this neighbourhood's decline and planned resurrection has been a long-running issue. Many residents bitterly resented the club, a decade ago, for buying up houses on Skerries Road, next to Anfield, and leaving them empty in case the club ever wanted to knock the row down and expand the stadium. Then, in 2000, there was uproar about leaked plans worked up by Liverpool and the city council, without consultation, to build a new stadium and, in the process, demolish 1,800 houses.

      That prompted a change at the club, towards a closer relationship with the community, and the current plans for Stanley Park followed extensive consultation with groups of residents who retain a defiant pride in the area.
      A group remains opposed to building on the park, but planning permission was granted largely because the project is intended to regenerate this blighted district. The new stadium was conceived not only as a landmark move for the world-famous club, but as a statement of confidence in the city's future. The development of the old stadium site, to be renamed Anfield Plaza, is designed to bring in 900 jobs. "Anfield Plaza is central to the area's economic revival," explains John Kelly, Liverpool city council's executive director for regeneration. "We are very disappointed that the project has been delayed. The local people, in one of the most deprived areas of the country, have been waiting a long time."

      While the club stagnates, the council and local organisations have been getting on with things. Improvements to Stanley Park are going ahead, helped by Ā£16m in grants. New housing has been built, or houses improved - including on Skerries Road, which was taken on by a development company and now looks very spruce. The football club lost a Ā£5m European Union grant to build the required community centre in the new stadium because they ran out of time; the money has been allocated instead to improving four local facilities.

      However, people are still living around bleak streets, with hundreds of houses awaiting demolition, amid poverty which is shaming.
      "A lot of work is going on," says Marie Rooney, a long-term activist and chair of the local Anfield and Breckside Community Council. "But the stadium was supposed to be a catalyst, and jobs created, which hasn't happened. I've lost confidence. A lot of people have, because we have been waiting so long. It's an embarrassment now. The Americans seem to want to do it without spending their own money, but I have lost confidence in whether they have the ability to deliver."
      Hicks and Gillett say they still have that ability, with borrowed money, but starting next year.


      Source
      http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/sep/10/liverpool.premierleague
      ayrton77
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      Re: Are Bert and Ernie from Sesame Street running our club?
      Reply #1: Sep 10, 2008 09:28:41 am
      Thanks for posting that Glenbuck, it shows the Hicks and Gillett saga in a whole different light. It's not just the debt they've put on our club, their takeover from Moores lifted the hopes of thousands of people who's lives would improve with the building of the new stadium and the renovation of the "old" Anfield.

      Their lies are a slap in the face not just of the supporters of Liverpool FC, but to the families who were relying on the jobs created by their investment.

      Get them out of this club, this city, this country! Why couldn't they just F**k off with the profit DIC promised them so many months ago? By now the new stadium would be under construction, and we would have begun this season with a clear vision of our future.

      cu*ts!
      shane23
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      Re: Are Bert and Ernie from Sesame Street running our club?
      Reply #2: Sep 10, 2008 01:41:07 pm
      its about time we say goodbye to the yanks. The have shown that they are not prepared to challenge in the transfer market properly. we need to go up to the next level in spending to really challenge the scum.
      the new stadium situation is just another indicator that we have the wrong men in charge of OUR club.They dont seem to have clue what they are doing.
      The man city situation has shown even more that we are in even greter danger of been left behind. If it goes on for another few years we will be so far behind we will never catch up and reclaim our spot as Englands number one
      DOBBS83
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      Re: Are Bert and Ernie from Sesame Street running our club?
      Reply #3: Sep 10, 2008 02:20:52 pm
      Yes I believe it is...




      ...and Ronald McParry the clown as well.
      JD
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      Re: Are Bert and Ernie from Sesame Street running our club?
      Reply #4: Sep 10, 2008 02:48:52 pm
      Thanks for the post Glenbuck.

      Interesting article.  The Anfield regeneration was key to the plan, and would have helped secure some development money from agencies in the UK and Europe, but we simply can't afford to delay any further.  We are getting ourselves in to a bigger and bigger hole.

      So basically,

      1. Hicks and Gillett borrowed Ā£298 million against their own names to a) pay the shareholders Ā£185 million and clear some debts/pay wages?? (Ā£113 million).

      2. They refinanced with Wachovia and RBS, taking out a Ā£350M loan (AGAINST the club) to pay off their original loan (and whack another Ā£50M on to start developing the ground.

      3. They would like to refinance (yet again) to the tune of Ā£750M to a) pay off the second loan and b) fund the new stadium.

      There is no way in this world Liverpool FC can be allowed to get in to debt to the tune of Ā£750M when these pair of pricks haven't put a single penny in to it.

      Interest payments alone would be of the order of Ā£60 million.  Just completely unaffordable.  Liverpool FC just are not worth that kind of money - and no bank in the world would lend them that much using the football club alone as collateral.

      We've gone from being a club about Ā£50 M in debt to a club Ā£350 M in debt in the space of 18 months.

      Anybody coming in is a) going to have to square their ridiculous Ā£350 M debt first and then give these pair of bellends some kind of profit to make them sell.

      Liverpool didn't spend much this summer so the club should have a positive cash figure I would have thought of about Ā£30-Ā£50 million.

      They can take that profit and just F**k off.
      CRK
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      Re: Are Bert and Ernie from Sesame Street running our club?
      Reply #5: Sep 10, 2008 02:56:29 pm
      It's farcical. It's the residents around there, the fans, the employees of our great club. Everyone involved and close to (relationship wise and proximity wise) is suffering because of these two gobshites.

      I do sincerely hope that plans are underway for them to do one, as they're not only threatening our great history and our great future, but they're preventing good people from a better way of living. Potential jobs around there are on hold. An increased revenue for people and businesses around Anfield. It's all looking a bit distant at the moment isn't it?
      Dadorious
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      Re: Are Bert and Ernie from Sesame Street running our club?
      Reply #6: Sep 10, 2008 03:59:03 pm
      Thanks Glenbuck for that great post and link. Not being from the UK and never being to Liverpool before I had no idea that the Anfield area was in so much strife and so dependent on the construction of the new stadium. They have now not only endandgered our sacred club but also the very foundations and the community that supports it. Something needs to be done immediately we are royally fu**ed and I dont see how anybody in their right mind would want to consolidate our large debt. I know we have all been praying and screaming for DIC but how helpless is our plea? No matter how much support and interest the board at DIC has in the club they are still running a corporation and looking to make a feasible business investment. A 350 mill debt will turn everybody off I dont know I think it will take a small miracle for any foreign investor to buy us out of this sh*t.

      F***ing Moores and Parry I am sure they must have had a look at the business tender and proposal these two yank kunts had when they wanted to buy us. If they had any love or passion for the Liverpool club and its city they would have foreseen this and not allowed the sale to happen. But it was the personal incentives and offers that were made that made these two snakes look the other way. I hope Moores, Parry and the two Yanks all rot to death!
      redkenny
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      Re: Are Bert and Ernie from Sesame Street running our club?
      Reply #7: Sep 10, 2008 05:20:29 pm
      There's not really all that much I can say. It's just heartbreaking.

      Living by Anfield and working around the area quite often, I know only too well of how run down the area is. And it's been like that for some time. You just can't blame the people of that area losing hope and confidence of an improvement in the near future.

      Obviously we all know very well of how these tw*ts can easily sink our great club to even lower depths and undo all what Shankly started. But they're also messing with peoples every day lives in the process, the longer they cling on to their deluded fu**ed up pipe dream of making money out of us.

      I hope and pray this nightmare ends very soon.
      JD
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      Re: Are Bert and Ernie from Sesame Street running our club?
      Reply #8: Sep 10, 2008 05:37:11 pm
      Good post RK. 

      We shouldn't forget that the people living in Anfield are getting a pretty rough deal too.

      When these two arrived some of these people would have dreamed about the regeneration and increased prosperity a new stadium and new facilities could have brought.

      All they've got now is a flattened sports centre, boarded up houses all around Anfield and the occasional visits to one of their boozers by Hicks son.

      Not good enough.
      carragerrard
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      Re: Are Bert and Ernie from Sesame Street running our club?
      Reply #9: Sep 10, 2008 05:47:11 pm
      I don,t know if this is already on the  forum board ,but I found it annoying seeing this
       its about 4 months old but it was scheduled to be finished and opens next year 


      DALLAS STARS TO BUILD NEW DR PEPPER STARCENTER McKINNEY IN CRAIG RANCH

      FRISCO, Tex. ā€“ The Dallas Stars and Hicks Sports Marketing Group (HSMG) announced today that they will build a new Dr Pepper StarCenter ice arena in Craig Ranch in McKinney, Texas. The Dr Pepper StarCenter McKinney will be built on 7.3 acres of land in Craig Ranch in far southwest McKinney. It is scheduled to open in August, 2009.

      This new ice facility will mark the ninth Dr Pepper StarCenter in the Metroplex, utilized for youth and adult hockey, and general ice skating for the public. The city of McKinney will own the center and the Dallas Stars Hockey Club will operate it.

      Hicks Sports Marketing Group is the exclusive sponsorship and marketing representative of the expansive Craig Ranch development. Just as the Dallas Stars, Texas Rangers, Liverpool Football Club and Mesquite Championship Rodeo are part of the Hicks Sports family, so now is Craig Ranch.

      ā€œWeā€™re absolutely thrilled to be partnering with Craig Ranch,ā€ said Jim Lites, president of HSMG. ā€œThis is a perfect location for a Dr Pepper StarCenter. The Dallas Stars have grown the sport of ice hockey to new levels in North Texas and we will continue to expose it to more kids and families and get them out there skating. More and more kids are playing hockey and this newest facility will only continue that trend.

       just pasted part of the article  to see it all go   http://stars.nhl.com/team/app/?service=page&page=NewsPage&articleid=361292
      « Last Edit: Sep 10, 2008 05:51:24 pm by xabigerrard »
      Magillionare
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      Re: Are Bert and Ernie from Sesame Street running our club?
      Reply #10: Sep 10, 2008 05:54:38 pm
      :D KK were are you :lmao:

      (for anyone who doesn't no someone named me and 7-kingkenny-7 bert and ernie a few weeks ago :P)
      bartman49
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      Re: Are Bert and Ernie from Sesame Street running our club?
      Reply #11: Sep 10, 2008 05:59:16 pm
      Hicks talks of the project starting a year later so does that mean he wont go, Morres has a lot to answer for. Their must be a way of putting some pressure on these guys and the one about a call to all L'pool fans world wide not to bank with RBS and it's subsidiaries just may make someone think they (Hicks & Gillett) ain't worth it, isn't Halifax? part of the RBS group, it's not going to be easy but that worth fighting for never is but if it impacts on their profits even a small amount then it will be worth it...
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Are Bert and Ernie from Sesame Street running our club?
      Reply #12: Sep 10, 2008 10:52:28 pm
      I do hope none of you are refering to me and Mag seeing as we have been labled Bert and Ernie  :laugh:
      Magillionare
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      Re: Are Bert and Ernie from Sesame Street running our club?
      Reply #13: Sep 10, 2008 11:09:00 pm
      :D KK were are you :lmao:

      (for anyone who doesn't no someone named me and 7-kingkenny-7 bert and ernie a few weeks ago :P)

      I do hope none of you are refering to me and Mag seeing as we have been labled Bert and Ernie  :laugh:

      Ernie can you not read ;) ::)


      I think that hicks and gillet, will infact run out of time in terms of fiannance and be forced to sell the club at a lower price than they would have received a month ago, and as far as i'm conserned.... normally when a player, staff member or owner leaves Liverpool, i always wish the best of luck, give them the YNWA and all that. With Hicks and Gillet... i wish complete and utter failure and i look foward to seeing both crash and burn in all aspects of their life for making one of the finest clubs the world has ever seen, and tarnishing the history forever. Once more, i don't wish you luck tom, i don't wish you luck george, you will be walking alone like the dogs you are and i hope when you leave you never step within a continent of anfield again!
      dunlop liddell shankly
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      Re: Are Bert and Ernie from Sesame Street running our club?
      Reply #14: Sep 10, 2008 11:21:11 pm
      It's a real shame what's going on, not only with the club but also the area of Anfield. I know it hasn't been the nicest district of Liverpool for some time, but it's getting worse by the minute. Unfortunately this is a common trend in a lot of inner city Liverpool. While the city centre (or town as it's commonly known) goes under millions and millions of pounds worth of construction, the surrounding areas are left to rot. But the residents of these areas are meant to be over the moon because we get a new road leading into town. The council need to pull it's finger out and instead of wasting money on F***ing lambananas or massive spiders or anything else for a one year event, they wanna build the city up for those who will be here after 08. It's all very well making the city centre look nice, but for those areas surrounding it are still run down. But these areas are full of community spirit. We are prepared to help each other when times are hard. When the taps leaking and the corpy can't be arsed coming out to fix it for a week, next door will invite you in to stay for a while. That's what makes these areas so special, full of red brick terraced houses (more often than not council owned) create people who will help others. Poverty, depravation, hardship are words that common around inner city Liverpool but we still come out fighting. As for the jobs on "Anfield Plaza" they won't go to the residents of Anfield. They'll be going to the clean cut, proper speaking folk from the outskirts of Liverpool or the illegal immigrants that this city is over run with. The everyday folk that watch this city go further into the mire everyday are the ones who don't get the chance to prove themselves. If anybody from the Anfield area gets a job in these places, it'll be as a cleaner or flipping the hamburgers in the back, it won't be as a manager(ess) or supervisor. Everyday folk aren't good enough for those jobs. It's a F***ing sorry state of affairs but the truth is, this city doesn't give a F**k about it's local residents. It only cares about it's celebrities or people from outside the city. The city loves to give the impression that it can put on a great show for those outside the city but those who live here day after day get sh*t on constantly. It really is an embarrassment the way this city treats the inner areas. I've experinced it meself, I've lived in Toxteth me entire life, I still see it to this day. The council of this city don't care unless the media attention is on them, then they to look like they care when they couldn't give a flying F**k.

      Anyway I've gone on a bit of a rant there about our council when I should be trying to keep on topic which is about Hicks and Gillett. They're ruining this club, don't deserve to be in charge of a club that's got such loyal fans like ours. It makes you wonder what David Moores was thinking apart from the dollar sign he saw in his eyes. That's what makes this worse, we were sold out by one of own. A Liverpool fan like me and you sold us out to these two. It's alright for him, he doesn't struggle to find money for the match or he isn't surrounded by this every day. He's off enjoying life by selling us out and yet he still has the nerve to attend matches. F***ing c**t. I don't want to see him at Anfield any more than I do Hicks, Gillett or Parry. The quicker this club is in the hands of a genuine fan who doesn't publically humiliate the club and fans the better.
      neilh2105
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      Re: Are Bert and Ernie from Sesame Street running our club?
      Reply #15: Sep 11, 2008 07:42:53 am
      Thanks for the post Glenbuck.

      Interesting article.  The Anfield regeneration was key to the plan, and would have helped secure some development money from agencies in the UK and Europe, but we simply can't afford to delay any further.  We are getting ourselves in to a bigger and bigger hole.

      So basically,

      1. Hicks and Gillett borrowed Ā£298 million against their own names to a) pay the shareholders Ā£185 million and clear some debts/pay wages?? (Ā£113 million).

      2. They refinanced with Wachovia and RBS, taking out a Ā£350M loan (AGAINST the club) to pay off their original loan (and whack another Ā£50M on to start developing the ground.

      3. They would like to refinance (yet again) to the tune of Ā£750M to a) pay off the second loan and b) fund the new stadium.

      There is no way in this world Liverpool FC can be allowed to get in to debt to the tune of Ā£750M when these pair of pricks haven't put a single penny in to it.

      Interest payments alone would be of the order of Ā£60 million.  Just completely unaffordable.  Liverpool FC just are not worth that kind of money - and no bank in the world would lend them that much using the football club alone as collateral.

      We've gone from being a club about Ā£50 M in debt to a club Ā£350 M in debt in the space of 18 months.

      Anybody coming in is a) going to have to square their ridiculous Ā£350 M debt first and then give these pair of bellends some kind of profit to make them sell.

      Liverpool didn't spend much this summer so the club should have a positive cash figure I would have thought of about Ā£30-Ā£50 million.

      They can take that profit and just F**k off.

      and this from the pair who looked straight into the camera lens and said.......(I paraphrase) "we will not saddle the club with anymore debt" blatant barefaced lies!
      What the F**k have Parry & Moores got to say about these crimes against our club?
      Moores is probably busy counting the interest on his additional Ā£8m tw*t!
      If and when we are taken over I hope those two get their cards first, god I F***ing loathe the pair of them
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Are Bert and Ernie from Sesame Street running our club?
      Reply #16: Sep 11, 2008 07:48:26 pm

      Apparently not :D
      L23 REDMAN
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      Re: Are Bert and Ernie from Sesame Street running our club?
      Reply #17: Sep 12, 2008 11:09:22 am
      Don't know about Bert an Ernie !!
      More like Bonnie an Clyde !!   >:(
      Infamous American robbers, and that's all these 2 crooks are ?   :f_steam:
      Saddled us with unwanted debt, and will only sell if they make a monumental profit !!
      Disgrace !!
      Bring on ShareLiverpool FC.
      dunlop liddell shankly
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      Re: Are Bert and Ernie from Sesame Street running our club?
      Reply #18: Sep 12, 2008 09:17:57 pm
      Every single fan is extremely disappointed that the promised new stadium still hasnā€™t been built or even started to be built. Again the plans for our new stadium have been cancelled because of the inability of our two pathetic owners to finance such a huge ask. The stadium has been put back a further twelve months and already fans are questioning whether or not the stadium will be up and running within in the next decade. Unfortunately it doesnā€™t look like it will.

      However just how vital is a new stadium for Liverpool Football Club? There have been a number of sides in recent years whoā€™ve built new stadiums and just went backwards because itā€™s cost them too much. Derby scrapped their old Baseball Ground for the brand new Pride Park yet they now sit bottom of the Championship. Leicester got rid of the old Filbert Street for the new Walkers Stadium yet they now find themselves in the third tier of English football for the first time in their history. Southampton decided to leave The Dell for St Maryā€™s yet last season survived relegation into League 1 on the final day last year. So in fact are our owners doing the right thing by not putting up a new stadium that they canā€™t afford because they know itā€™ll hurt us more in the long run?

      If we put a new stadium up, for the next three or four years we wouldnā€™t be bringing new players in because weā€™d be trying to finance this new stadium. Arsenal are a case in point here, who are having to sell their better players (Henry, Hleb, Ashley Cole to name a few) to repay for their new Emirates Stadium. Is that we want? Do we really want to see our star players leave to our rivals because of this new stadium?

      The new ground would bring in extra revenue from match tickets, gate receipts, match day programmes and food sold during the match but at the end of the day is it worth the troubles weā€™d putting ourselves in? Would that little extra of revenue help us compete with the likes of Chelsea and United? Obviously at Anfield people think weā€™re falling behind but I donā€™t think moving right now would actually benefit us that much, certainly not in the short term.

      I accept and appreciate that weā€™ll have to move someday but the problem is I donā€™t want us to move grounds while the yanks are in charge. That would hurt the club on the whole much more. If a future investor has the money to put up the new stadium without it hurting the clubā€™s progress then Iā€™d be right on board. But as Iā€™ve already said if we move with the two Americans in charge then I think itā€™d come back to haunt us. It also adds more to the estimated valuation of the club which means they can hold out for more money from the future investors.

      I know we were promised a new stadium and weā€™d all pretty much like one, I think while those clowns are running the club itā€™s better for us and the club to stay at Anfield. We donā€™t need the debt the stadium would put us in and since weā€™re already unable to buy our number one transfer targets I donā€™t see any point in making that situation worse. So while these two yanks are running the club I think itā€™s a much better for the club to stay put at Anfield.

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