"Micromanagement" and rotation

Details can win you games just ask Rafa, I dont think there is any manager out there who would agree with this more. I'm pretty sure Rafa has his very own micromanagent obsession methods as he prepares the team for their next match.

While we're here Obsessing over things like for example ... The substitution over Robbie Keane against West Brom the other night. I'm fairly positive Rafa himself will run back over videos of that game and see where improvements can be made. Rafa doesnt for one minute come accross as a man to rest on his laurels, which in my opinion is a b.loody credible trait to have as a manager. Keeping the players on their toes by telling them where they could improve their game is far better than telling them how good they are as individuals, as running the risk of complacency would inevitability enter their minds.

As for us forum members discussing some of the more microscopic points of how the lads faired and obviously I include the manager in that. I think its fair enough, if not only to spark some insightful posts on these boards but to share any favorable or adverse concerns about the team. Believe me I have posted on other forums just how delighted I was with our win over West Brom, plus the fact Torres was given a run out and also how our very own (in my opinion) underated fullback Arbeloa took his goal. But like this forum the 'Keane subbstitution' did spark up some debate.
One of the best times to stand back and look for improvements, is when you've just won a game. Like I said before Rafa no doubt will be doing this as he doest come accross as a man who rests on his laurels. As the fans we get the extra mortal to discuss ontop of the team, Rafa himself.

As it stands so far this season I'm absolutley delighted with the way we have grinded out performances and of course I'm over the moon as to where we currently stand in the Premiership. I'm optimistic now that we can make a fist of it this year as far as a title challenge goes, I dont necceserily think we'll win the league but thats for another debate. I'd be gratified with a genuine title challenge at long last.

 I find it no coincedence whatsoever that we find ourselves in such a commanding position due to the lack of Rafa's rotational methods. Yes, enter the boring old topic of rotation that has been done to death. Whether certain people consider this to be "microscopic management" or even the 'stick to beat Rafa with', I personally dont but opinions vary. Firstly many other factors will of aided us into our lofty position so far like the appointment of Sammy Lee for example. The motivator, the man with the big Scouse heart will of only served as a positive in firing the players up. Maybe the siging of Riera too who has given us that much needed balance down the left. But I tell you what, if people do consider Riera's signing to be that significant in getting us to this current position he must be one hell of a player to do that. I dont underestimate the positives he, Sammy Lee and others alike have had on the team this season. But I personally cant look much further past the fact that Rafa has cut down on his rotation systems, compared to the past. Surely its no coincidence ? Yes he's changes personel around here and there and formations to, but to the extent in which he has done in the past. Something like 75 changes were made in our first fifteen games last season or possibly the season before, they are ridiculous numbers in my opinion. He has pretty much tried rotation in his four previous seasons, by December more or less even earlier in some cases we've been out of the title race. Many people have argued that rotating players earlier on in the season will keep them fresher for the second half of it, well thats no good for man nor beast if we're already out of the league is it.

I'm very glad to see Rafa alter his approach slightly and go back to the more orthordox style of management, and I also appreciate the need to rest players here and there. I understand that Rafa will need to make some changes here and there, but instead of 'mass rotating' seven players for a game he's seemingly cut it down to one or two which in my opinion is a much more sensible approach. I think with the chance the players have been given this year to find co-hessiveness, confidence, momentum and understanding the team has benefitted alot more. The players have been aloud to find their rythm and groove and build up a head of steam, surely this has served to benefit the team. Even the most 'Pro rotationilist' of supporters must surely see the benefits of playing a more largely settled team this time around. Its micromangement at its best ! Well that is if you consider the rotation debate micromangement. A negative in discussion has potentially been turned around into a positive and thats something I'm sure all Liverpool supporters can appreciate.

If we're talkin about rotation, then that's been done over and over again on every forum, in every ale house and durin every match since Benitez' arrival in the summer of 04. As for this season though, we do look a better side. Is that because rotation has been cut to about 50% of what it was last year? I mean it hasn't disappeared as Aurelio one week Dossena the next proves, but it's certainly decreased, about bloody time as well if you ask me.

Five changes from the win against United to the side that started in France against Marsielle, made me think think "christ here we go again" but it doesn't seem to be that way. Has Benitez learnt his lesson or has the amount of injuries forced his hand to some extent? Masch returns from the Olympics, Stevie gets injured so it's a forced swap. Stevie returns, Masch gets injured so again it's forced. Then when Masch is fit, Nando goes down meanin we just play Stevie behind the lone forward. So the injuries have caused a lot of the changes this year, but have also meant that there's no room for one game Masch, then one for Xabi, then one for both.

What I also believe is that Benitez has seen just how bad some of our squad players are. Last season (and before) he was convinced the likes of Lucas and Benayoun were good enough for quite a few games, this season he's realised neither is up to Liverpool's standard and both have to settle for the odd game here and there.

It will be interestin to see if we're fu**ed come March/April time and don't have the steam for the final push. Personally I think we'll be fine, because if players have a sniff of a title then they'll do anything they can to ensure it comes their way.

Interesting post LFC-Red.  There is a huge rotation thread knocking round this board but, obviously due to our recent results, it's slipped down a few pages.

However, despite what Rafa says about resting and keeping fresh, I find it extremely interesting that Gerrard, Carragher, Torres are never 'rotated'.

If Rafa really did rotate to keep players fresh and at their peak then these players would be just as prone to it as the rest.  But they aren't because they are class players.  If Benitez had 11 players of their calibre he wouldn't rotate them.

I will just add to that JD there is no need to discuss rotation in age long responses. The decrease in the number of rotations each season Rafa has been here has come down to him building a strong squad and  creating the spine of the team. There are 8 certain guaranteed positions in the side to which we do not meddle with it providing we are injury free we surely are allowed to rotate the odd one or two.

I am bloody well sure that Wenger has rotated much more than Rafa this season obviously Arsenal have been hit with injuries but what makes it worse is the lack of adequate cover in each position forcing the manager in to trying different players.

Now that Rafa has an established core of the team there is a siginifacnt decrease in rotations. He has had to cop it from all ends because of this but after 5 seasons Rafa has established himself a strong squad ready to challenge for things.

Rotation definitely has its advantages and disadvantages. Last season, was the season I saw Rafa rotated alot. Yes, maybe some of those rotated players were not good enough to win games for us but they'll improve. Our second half of the season. After christmas, we only lost 2 games in 2008. The game at Upton Park and Old Trafford. So , I can safely say we did have a strong 2nd half of the season.

Let's take Arsenal for example. Arsenal started really strongly last season. I supposed they got tired after 20 games because they played the same bunch of players each week.

And rotation is another thing the media bring up when we don't win. We're top of the league and when was the last time we heard about 'Rafa and his rotation'? I can't remember. When we win games, nobody says anything. When we don't win a few games, 'rotation policy', 'relationship between rafa and owners' and all arise.

This season, the players have a different character in them. They play as a team more now. We have won games without our 2 most influential players in Stevie and Fernando at times. In fact, Fernando did not fully play like 5-6 games in the league and we still had goal scorers.

Let's hope we can challenge for the title till the end it would be sweet if we can win the league, though.

But what about the "Micromanagement" side of it, does anyone believe we get to bogged down when regarding critical points of the players and the manager ?

Should we for the want of a better few words 'bury our heads in the sand' of all things critical, as we're currently joint top of the league and say that everything is all well and good. Even though it is in the main, should we only be scrutinising the team and manager if we're hanging around in 7th position as opposed to 1st ?

I only brought the "age long response" to our attention regarding rotation to highlight and balance the fact that we've kicked on from our seemingly folly of pastime methods and that not everything is doom and gloom when 'picking holes' in Rafa's methods there is credit where its due and rotation (or less of it) is a prime example of this. I didnt intend this to become a rotation debate, more of debate to hear if this 'Micromanagement' stuff is relivant, to which I think it is personally.

Okay forget the rotation debate, I think it may of been a bad example and threw people off tangent. Lets go back to the Keane substitution for a minute, when many people in the Keane thread said there was no harm done in bringing Keane off during the game, we still got three points blah blah blah. Now in comparison Rafa subbed Keane against Tottenham, personally I thought it was a good move. Keane wasnt able to impose himself in that game as much as I'd of liked him to, largely because I believe he isnt akin to playing upfront on his own. At a time during the match when Tottenham were coming back into the game it made sense to me to bring Babel on and use his pace to exploit any gaps left in the Tottenham defence.

The substitution though in the end didnt pay off we went from being one nil up to loosing the match 2-1. Many LFC fans on message boards though we're not happy with the substitution of Keane for Babel. Lets be honest here and say it didnt work out, but then again it wasnt the reason we lost either. But because we lost are we able to question the manager for the sub more freely than we are to question him about a sub when we won a game. I dont think so there both relivant even though the circumstances are different. Just because we've won it doesnt mean we should just turn around and say .... 'Whats the problem with the Keane sub, at the end of the day we got three points ?'. Equally it should be the focal point of discussion about it neither, but never the less its still well worth discussing as to why it was done.

So the point of this thread is, should we be able to question the things that are goin wrong when we win? Yes we should.

So the point of this thread is, should we be able to question the things that are goin wrong when we win? Yes we should.

Summed up more or less better in a few words than my own ramblings

Don't worry mate, the ramblins are worth readin.

People will see it as 'nit-picking' or 'moaning for the sake of it', but what I was trying to get at intitially was, would Rafa be classed as 'nit-picking' his players because he still looks for improvements in a side that turned out a 3-0 win at the weekend.

Probably not, definately not. Thats where I tried to lay the comparison with us.

Don't worry mate, the ramblins are worth readin.

Cheers mate, but I think I've outdone myself this time.

Well I've done me fair share of "nit picking" by expectin players to train on their weaknesses. Apparently I was just bein fussy because we're top of the league.

There's always room for improvement, Benitez knows this as much as anybody, so I don't see anything wrong in things like this. We're not questionin how good we are or sayin we haven't got 29 points. Alls that's bein asked is can decisions be questioned despite a victory. And I still say yes when we can.

Well I've done me fair share of "nit picking" by expectin players to train on their weaknesses. Apparently I was just bein fussy because we're top of the league.

There's always room for improvement, Benitez knows this as much as anybody, so I don't see anything wrong in things like this. We're not questionin how good we are or sayin we haven't got 29 points. Alls that's bein asked is can decisions be questioned despite a victory. And I still say yes when we can.

Yes exactly, and as it happens our last match against West Brom saw Keane taken off when the lad was on a high and chasing a possible Hat-rick and had the chance to get some important playing time with Nando.

Apart from that though there isnt to much to question about in my opinion, overall we were very good and it was also good to see us win pretty comfortabley.

Yes exactly, and as it happens our last match against West Brom saw Keane taken off when the lad was on a high and chasing a possible Hat-rick and had the chance to get some important playing time with Nando.

Apart from that though there isnt to much to question about in my opinion, overall we were very good and it was also good to see us win pretty comfortabley.

Lad there is a strong hint of contradiction in that statemet to state that Benitez knows whats best for the team and the improvement off yet when he makes a decision to action this know how people crucify him.

Lad there is a strong hint of contradiction in that statemet to state that Benitez knows whats best for the team and the improvement off yet when he makes a decision to action this know how people crucify him.

Firstly there is no hint of contradiction in that statement atall, by saying we played very good overall and to see us win pretty comfortabley is hardly saying Rafa knows whats best for the team is it. Even so in saying that I think he does know whats best for the team, but that doesnt mean to say I think he cant get things wrong at times.

Secondly there is no crucifying here of Rafa, that is merely a figment of you're imagination to over exagerate the context of my post(s). Again if I'm implying that Rafa does get things wrong it isnt "crucifying" the man, just pointing out that he does at times get things wrong and isnt beyond critisism.

Thirdly if you prefer we could all run around screeming from the hilltops that we have the best manager in the world along with the best team in the World. And if you like spread the word that Rafa can do no wrong, but I'd rather be a little more objective than that if you dont mind.

DISCLAIMER : OVERALL I THINK RAFA IS DOING A GREAT JOB, I DONT BY ANY MEANS MEAN TO CRUCIFY THE BLOKE WHEN GIVING AN OPINION THAT GOES AGAINST THE GRAIN OF THE ROSEY RED TINTED BRIGADE. I HOPE HE IS AT THIS CLUB FOR A VERY LONG TIME AND BELIEVE HE IS THE MAN TO GET US THE ELUSIVE 19TH.

Ok well so what do you intend on achieving?

Me and you can sit here the whole night and argue back and forth without really changing the outcome of anything. We are not in the position to make any decisions regarding our tactics or play.

You are more than welcome to question these decisions for the sake of argument but it is pretty pointless when we can not change anything.

Ok well so what do you intend on achieving?

Me and you can sit here the whole night and argue back and forth without really changing the outcome of anything. We are not in the position to make any decisions regarding our tactics or play.

You are more than welcome to question these decisions for the sake of argument but it is pretty pointless when we can not change anything.

Well, lets shut down the forum then !

Well IMO, Rafa has finally realised the importance of winning the title this year and has just finally gone and changed his ways(cut down on rotation) in order to achieve it!

Ok well so what do you intend on achieving?

Me and you can sit here the whole night and argue back and forth without really changing the outcome of anything. We are not in the position to make any decisions regarding our tactics or play.

You are more than welcome to question these decisions for the sake of argument but it is pretty pointless when we can not change anything.

The forum is for discussion mate, now obviously there is very little chance that fans opinions will sway Rafa, as he seems a very stubborn man. But everyone who is a member of this forum is here to offer their opinion and strike up debate.

I think that there is nothing wrong with looking for negatives in a win, I'm sure Rafa does it to. If we won, for example 5-0 against Wolves but also gifted them 5 golden oppurtunities to score, then clearly something is wrong. If we wanted to challenge then we wouldn't be able to gift those 5 oppurtunities to a better side, because we would be punished.

Now obviously I have used an extreme case there, but the gist of it is that even if we win, there are always negatives to look at. Obviously if we win then things will look at lot more rosey, and fans will overlook a lot of the negatives.

If when we won, Rafa just overlooked all the negatives and focused only on the postives then we would slide down the table fairly quickly. Now if we focussed on the negatives in a win, then they will be worked on in training.

I think that 'micromanagement' is something that all managers will do, and I think that fans can observe it to.

The forum is for discussion mate, now obviously there is very little chance that fans opinions will sway Rafa, as he seems a very stubborn man. But everyone who is a member of this forum is here to offer their opinion and strike up debate.

I think that there is nothing wrong with looking for negatives in a win, I'm sure Rafa does it to. If we won, for example 5-0 against Wolves but also gifted them 5 golden oppurtunities to score, then clearly something is wrong. If we wanted to challenge then we wouldn't be able to gift those 5 oppurtunities to a better side, because we would be punished.

Now obviously I have used an extreme case there, but the gist of it is that even if we win, there are always negatives to look at. Obviously if we win then things will look at lot more rosey, and fans will overlook a lot of the negatives.

If when we won, Rafa just overlooked all the negatives and focused only on the postives then we would slide down the table fairly quickly. Now if we focussed on the negatives in a win, then they will be worked on in training.

I think that 'micromanagement' is something that all managers will do, and I think that fans can observe it to.

Good post mate.