Match Thread Liverpool V West Ham United 1/12/08

Have to agree there...Dossena had a decent game. Can't say the same about Riera though. - what did he do?

tried to play central mid by the looks of it, so many times there was so much space on the left and nothing being done with it

none of us are jumping up and down at going top of the league cos I think we all know that to stay there we needed the full 3 points tonight. earlier in this thread I said that we have slipped everytime chelsea have and that we needed to capitalise tonight and frankly we havent. I dont condone the booing at the end but to be fair I can understand it to be honest. we had ANOTHER RARE chance to open up a gap and we let it slip yet again. disappointing to say the least

Sorry Jimbob but I totally disagree with you, we didnt need the full 3pts last night, they would have been nice yes, but not needed to put us clear at the top opening up a 1 point gap between ourselves and Chelsea something you state "we needed to do but failed".
Also we did capitalise on Chelsea losing or else we wouldn't be top would we ?
I agree it's not Championship form but we're CLEAR at the top on points not 2nd on goal difference, and we're nowhere near our top form, which when we hit it will see us pulling away from the rest !
when was the last time we were top at this time of year ?

With regards to the booing, the way our fans looked on ss news definitely wasn't a good look.
I for one try to look at the nature of the prem this season, its pretty easy to see that every game is a chess game and the considered top 4 have ALL dropped points which is obviously a measure of how competitive it is this time around. At best in some games i feel we have played at 70%, were still nowhere near our peak so for me, to reside at the top of the league is something I'm really happy with..
I just think its crazy that in other posts people claim Anfield is fast becoming a morgue with only few people singing but when it comes to sticking the boot in a mass of boos was heard in unison for every non LFC fan to hear..?

The disappointing part is we drew with teams we can and should beat at our own backyard. Dropping those points away wouldn't have hurt much would it?

And the six points lost at Anfield would have put us in a very good position - 7 points ahead of Chelsea and even better 12 points ahead of United.

But it's over now, just have a good mid week of and perform well against Blackburn(who face United midweek) and get another 3 away poinst to keep our lead at the top.

my point was that as much as we are now 1 point clear of chelsea i think come the end of the season we will notice yet another 2 points dropped. especially as they were dropped at home again. yes we capitalised on chelseas's slip up but not to maximum effect i think you'll agree. so therefore we all feel disappointed as we SHOULDbe 3 points clear not just 1. anyway bring on Blackburn. YNWA 

Sorry Jimbob but I totally disagree with you, we didnt need the full 3pts last night, they would have been nice yes, but not needed to put us clear at the top opening up a 1 point gap between ourselves and Chelsea something you state "we needed to do but failed".
Also we did capitalise on Chelsea losing or else we wouldn't be top would we ?
I agree it's not Championship form but we're CLEAR at the top on points not 2nd on goal difference, and we're nowhere near our top form, which when we hit it will see us pulling away from the rest !
when was the last time we were top at this time of year ?

Very disappointed to say the least. Last night again shown me why I dislike Benayoun so much, Babel would definetly of had more of an impact on the game than him. Possibly Pennant aswell. Dossena should never play for the club again, why not give Insua a chane in the first team whilst Fabio is out?

We were forced to shoot from far out last night and is something that we struggle at because we like to cut teams apart but that couldnt happen. Though 4-5-1 would of been the best formation to play last night with Gerrard behind Keane.

If Liverpool really wants to the title race, then on nights like that Benitez is going to have to be more adventurous with his substitutions.
If you want to win, you have to bring on strikers, in place of midfielders, or defenders. It is no value simply replacing a striker for a striker, a winger for a winger, or a midfielder for a midfielder. Bringing forward players off as Benitez did is a holding pattern tactic.
Ironically, bringing on another striker for a defender is a good move, because although it creates risk at the back, thats exactly when you are more likely to score, on the counter, after Westham have gone forward.
With the defensive way Liverpool played, Westham were never going to have a crack, and Benitez did nothing to offer them encouragement. Babel and Ngog were fine to come on, but Rierra and Keane should not have been taken off. Sacrifice at the back, more than likely you will still hold out to a Westham team intent on a draw, but you increase the chances of scoring.

WHAT HAPPENED?

imo dossena did a solidjob, few good passes and crosses. what more can we ask from him? i just hope he take this to next game

WHAT HAPPENED?

Read the 25 pages of this thread and find out!

In a nutshell though, we drew 0-0.

It was very dissapointing not to get all 3 points but at least we are on top of the Prem on our own!

We lacked the conviction of a club wanting to win the title...the blame goes to the players for this. Look at those games where we came from behind and won, it wasnt the coach making changes or certain names missing...it was due to them playing with urgency and determination.
Last night that was missing...look at Robbie when he played against West Brom, he looked hungry, energetic and full of running...lastnight he hardly made any meaningful runs, just stood still awaiting the ball on occasions.
The whole team was below par really, with the exception of the backline who actually tried.

Those players picked to play were more than capable of beating West Ham...they just lacked the belief. Somebody has to remind them that they are on the brink of making history for themselves.

I agree with Huyton Red there Robby. And it pisses me off even more when the majority of the booers are the ones who can't be arsed to get behind the reds through the game, but are all too happy to raise their vocal chords with boos at the end of the game. You say it's just a way of letting the manager know what's happened on the day, so why doesn't the majority of supporters let the players know they're behind them through the game? Where's the passion then?

it works both ways I suppose, you cant cheer when we are doing well , and not boo when we are sh*t....... agreed we should get behind the team, but the game had finished and some fans were giving their final verdict, so not effecting the game in progress, it should really motivate the people responsible for the poor performance, it would motivate me if I was out there........if it knocks you down then your mentality is wrong,

It all boils down to me that there's a good number of non genuine reds at the game these days. It would be a slightly different arguement if Anfield was in full voice all the way through tonights game and then there were boos at the final whistle.

Not sure which part you were refering to my post when you quoted me there robby, but I presume the top bit?

You're right about the booing not affecting the game in progress, but the silence does, doesn't it. I really wish you were at the Marseille game with me last week when we were trying to get some sort of support going for the reds, yet you get looked at like you don't belong in the ground!!

I'd rather boo those fans than the players or the performance. Because that's real frustration mate.

Well I stayed off the forum after the game because I was so gutted, I was probably going to say something I'd regret.

It's now been over 30 hours since the match finished and I still feel as gutted as I did when that final whistle went.

I'm begging you my Scouse mates in Liverpool, please search the streets and find Rafa. If you can't find him, find Sammy Lee or Maurice Pellegrino. Tell them to get Rafa and shake him into some sort of common sense and to stop being so stubborn.

If 40,000 odd people inside the ground and all of us watching around the world can tell him when a substitution is required and who to bring off and replace with, you'd think he might listen. Na, he had to do it his own way, he's cost us points this year that were there for the taking. I just hope he comes to his senses and starts realizing we really have a realistic chance of ending the drought this year. Don't F**k it all up by being so stubborn 


Now for the pluses of yesterday Sami, Dossena and we're top of the league.

Well I stayed off the forum after the game because I was so gutted, I was probably going to say something I'd regret.

It's now been over 30 hours since the match finished and I still feel as gutted as I did when that final whistle went.

I'm begging you my Scouse mates in Liverpool, please search the streets and find Rafa. If you can't find him, find Sammy Lee or Maurice Pellegrino. Tell them to get Rafa and shake him into some sort of common sense and to stop being so stubborn.

If 40,000 odd people inside the ground and all of us watching around the world can tell him when a substitution is required and who to bring off and replace with, you'd think he might listen. Na, he had to do it his own way, he's cost us points this year that were there for the taking. I just hope he comes to his senses and starts realizing we really have a realistic chance of ending the drought this year. Don't F**k it all up by being so stubborn 


Now for the pluses of yesterday Sami, Dossena and we're top of the league.

Spot on Aussie, still gutted as well mate, I have stayed well clear of this thread until the mist has lifted like you say we are top of the Table and a couple of good performances. bring on Blackburn at the weekend

Well I stayed off the forum after the game because I was so gutted, I was probably going to say something I'd regret.

It's now been over 30 hours since the match finished and I still feel as gutted as I did when that final whistle went.

I'm begging you my Scouse mates in Liverpool, please search the streets and find Rafa. If you can't find him, find Sammy Lee or Maurice Pellegrino. Tell them to get Rafa and shake him into some sort of common sense and to stop being so stubborn.

If 40,000 odd people inside the ground and all of us watching around the world can tell him when a substitution is required and who to bring off and replace with, you'd think he might listen. Na, he had to do it his own way, he's cost us points this year that were there for the taking. I just hope he comes to his senses and starts realizing we really have a realistic chance of ending the drought this year. Don't f**k it all up by being so stubborn 


Now for the pluses of yesterday Sami, Dossena and we're top of the league.

Get a grip lad.... Were currently top of the league because of Raffa's decisions.. "He's cost us points".. He's gained us points!!! How can you on one hand be happy about our position but claim he has no common sense?
And you honestly believe 40,000 people all in unison thought about the same substitution? In my house alone there were 3 different suggestions to who should have came on.
When the managers spot was vacant your phone didn't ring, Raffa's did. I think I'd trust Raffa over any fans emotional armchair management skills.
Oh and look at the players you highlighted. Raffa made a decision to play both of them, Sami doesn't get to play much but had a good game and Dossena who's recently been sh*te also had a good game. Would you have chose them both to play?.. How can you complain about his decision making but praise the not-so-obvious players he chose?..

Monday night, the obvious substitution was Babel on, not N'gog.

Aussie Red is right though, in home games the onus is on us to attack, just as I thought best form of defence is attack!

Don't mind playing like that away from home, but at Anfield, we need to go after teams.

Monday night, the obvious substitution was Babel on, not N'gog.

It might have felt like the obvious sub to us fans but to a world class manager who's team is currently top of the league and who watches his players train day in day out it may not have been.

Aussie Red is right though, in home games the onus is on us to attack, just as I thought best form of defence is attack!

Don't mind playing like that away from home, but at Anfield, we need to go after teams.

So in the games we drew and dropped points in we didn't attack? Of course we did!! Mr Gerrard summed it up today on ssn when he was talking about being ruthful in front of goal. In all our frustrating draws at home we created plenty chances but you all seem to forget this. Look at the stats of the West Ham game and tell me if we we're playing negative.

Personally I felt Babel and N'Gog should have both been on earlier.  Kuyt wasn't doing it in front of goal so maybe he should have gone right wing but RIera was also terrible.

I thought he should have come off earlier than the 78th minute.

It was a shame El Zhar wasn't on the bench.

Roll on the weekend.

It might have felt like the obvious sub to us fans but to a world class manager who's team is currently top of the league and who watches his players train day in day out it may not have been.

I love Rafa, but sometimes his decisions are baffling, how many times has he dragged Robbie off with still half an hour to go, what happened to the sensible footballing logic of when you need a goal, you leave your main striker on!

So in the games we drew and dropped points in we didn't attack? Of course we did!! Mr Gerrard summed it up today on ssn when he was talking about being ruthful in front of goal. In all our frustrating draws at home we created plenty chances but you all seem to forget this. Look at the stats of the West Ham game and tell me if we we're playing negative.

Haven't forgotten at all, but I would say I am struggling to remember any out and out chances against Fulham. What I do remember, however, about Stoke and Fulham, is our inability to break down resolute defences, our inability to actually make the keeper work and of course the inability to actually put the ball in the net.

^^ Agree.

Fulham was terrible.  I don't recall many decent chances either in that game.

The West Ham game was a much better performance than the Fulham one, although still below par.  If the Fulham game had been televised then that thread would have been much bigger than this one, trust me.

IMO the situation currently is that we havent got a midfield creative enough to break the 10 man defensive systems down.

Benayoun was bought for this purpose, coz he's not an orthodox RW, but more a dribbler the likes of (Ronaldo, giggs, hleb, robben, JCole...etc) they are ur basic attacking mids who possess the required skill to go past people and produce something different which is required when teams pack the defences.
Even if he put in 10 crosses like Reira and Dossena did, there would be nobody on the end of it, coz the defences are set up for this.

If we are to successfully win No.19 then I believe this is the one area we need to strengthen in January.
Against the more adventurous opposition who play open football, the pair of Alonso and Gerrard are more than capable of having a decisive influence, but against the 10 man defences they dont possess the necessary creativity.

Get a proper creative player for these types of games and we may even get away with playing Masch, Alonso, Gerrard and the MrX in midfield along with 2 strikers up top.

What u think?

In a nut shell we must have at least 75% of the possesion and could not score , you can blame individuals or you can blame the whole team or even Rafa . But we drew , so lets look forward to the next game and forget about West Ham. We are still top, SO COME ON YOU REDS.