Stoke v Liverpool: Match thread

Kuytt up front as the loan striker when he's been tried and tested as such, and is a  total failure in that particular role. That's why its the managers fault FFS. Team selection and tactics come from him.

Sure, why not?

If all else fails, blame the manager. Sack Rafa? :

Sure, why not?

If all else fails, blame the manager. Sack Rafa? :

I never mentioned sacking Rafa as I believe there's no replacment as good. I just don't see where his team selection makes sense when it's something he's tried on a number of occasions and it just doesn't work. And why play kuytt up front where he's crap, and move him from wide right where he's been awesome. O.K. if there's no alternative, but to do it when Torres, Keane and Babel are all on the bench and all play up front better than Kuytt. Don't just make negative comments in reply, if you can't post something constructive or even destructive if you want, don't waste your time. 

FFS!

If Stevie managed to wrap an inch more of his boot around the 92nd minute chance he had and that ball bobbled in the goal nobody would even mention any of this sh*t!

As I said regardless who was out there we had enough  quality to get 3 points, but we never had the heart nor the desire.

IRWT!

Lets face it here,when we all saw the team line,did we think we was gonna win easily?,although with better personell we should have,the team had over £50m of attacking talent on ther bench,no width,with both Yousi and Albert constantly coming inside where Stoke were just picking us off and basically had 2 defensive minded players holding in midfield,we would have been better putting Stevie in the middle,with Robbie and Torres up front and babel replacing yossi.If we were away to another title contender i could understand it,but for Stoke?

As I said regardless who was out there we had enough  quality to get 3 points, but we never had the heart nor the desire.

Well quite clearly we didn't have the quality to get the three points because we didn't. As you say we didn't have heart or desire, they are qualities we didn't possess so we didn't have the quality. We didn't have the quality to open Stoke up. We didn't have the quality to score. Overall we didn't have the quality to win, which shows in a goalless draw.

What I was reffering to was individual quality of players, as in man to man quality.

I dont think playing with heart and desire can fall in to this bracket as a proffesional football player playing at Liverpool this should be present in every game.

Well it clearly isn't which means certain players don't have the qualities to beat Stoke.

Football isn't about indiviuals either, it's a team game and as a team we didn't show enough quality. Whether our players are better technically isn't the problem, the problem lies with players unable to show qualities such as fight, heart, desire, character. I mean looking at yesterday's performance there's a few who didn't even show the basic technical skills either.

Yet again I was reffering to people criticising the team selection and solely blaming Rafa. I did so myself saying we should have played with 2 upfront but looking at it deeply the overall quality in that line up "was" substantial to beat Stoke. We used pretty much the same line up against Newcastle and put 5 goals in the difference was that on that day players turned up on Saturday they didnt. Dont think it has anything to do with Rafa.

Playing Kuyt up front on his own has everything to do with Benitez. He was non existant against Newcastle, which is why Gerrard was often well ahead of him because he dropped deep and didn't influence the game and yesterday he was non existant again other than that header which he should of burried.

The only selection problem was Kuyt. Lucas was the only replacement for Xabi if we were keeping to Stevie behind the lone forward so I have no problem with the Brazilian's inclusion. But Kuyt up top on his own, just doesn't work. Same with Keane. The ball just kept coming back at us because we had nobody up the field capable of holding onto the ball. That was the lack of quality.

I'm not laying all blame at either Benitez or Kuyt's feet but that was the biggest error from the off and it created problems for us from the word go.

Fact,we were far to defensively minded for a game against Stoke, a relegation threatened club,Rafa was ulmately responsible as he picked the team and told the players how to go about the game.

I really don't understand why Robbie wasn't used. True, he may have been sh*te, really, but he may rise to the occasion (like against Arsenal) if it's required. I can't say who was the worst player out there on the field on Saturday.

What's worse is that this happened just after Rafa's Fergie 'blast', so a win would have done nicely.

I have been thinking about how rafa treats keane, I don't know if rafa is into psychology of players or not, but it seems to me that if you keep a player on the bench for a while when they finally get a game they are going to try their hardest to impress to get regular games. Thats the only thing I can think of constantly keeping on the bench for.

Thats not a bad theory mate, remember the Spurs team only 2 and 1/2 maybe 3 seasons ago?? Kanoute, Mido and Defoe... Keane was left out in the cold and it was the best thing that ever happened the chap, when he got a run of games he finally became their main man( hence the sales of all the above) and even captaining the side for half a season.

I don't know if Rafa is trying to do this with Keane, but maybe if he does get a run in the side he can emulate his Spurs form. I think he can be a big part in our run in for the tital.

-------------Keane--------Torres------------

Reira-------Gerrard-------Xabi------Kuyt

I'd like to see this V Everton!

fu**ed off to say the least, now united could take top place with there 2 games in hand and as usual they coming strong towards the end where as we still F***ing about with the wrong F***ing personal in the wrong positions this is sh*t that should have been sorted by now but we still persist with tinkering with ideas that dont work. Stoke where always going to sit back for the draw we needed to go there with all guns blazing

-------------Keane--------Torres------------

Reira-------Gerrard-------Xabi------Kuyt

I'd like to see this V Everton!

Neverton may be sh*te, but I still think we need a goalie and at least a couple of defenders. 

We were f***in abysmal!  Once again we looked like a one trick pony, Stevie had an awful game and consequently so did LFC, we can pass the ball around and make pretty patterns but not much else.
Title contenders? and drop four point's, to a sh*t team like Stoke...... come on who's kiddin who!
I always trust in Rafa's judgement, he's proved me wrong so many times, this time Rafa your team selection was at best naive.
My overall verdict 3/10

I just don't see where his team selection makes sense when it's something he's tried on a number of occasions and it just doesn't work.

To be completely honest we've got the 3rd highest points tally after 21 games in the entire history of the football club.  On 17 occasions where we have won the title we have had less points after 21 games than we do now.

'It just doesn't work' is a completely invalid point.

Some people need to get a grip.

I F***ing hate teams like Stoke, that sit back for the majority of the game to freeze us out.

I'll laugh my bollocks off when their 'precious 2 points' taken from us, isn't enough to save them from the drop. 

Tossers.

Yea same here Court.They are a disgrace to football they literally slaughter the beutiful game that it is. For 90 minute they did not make one pass on the deck the ball was constantly hoofed in the air and in to the box.  They are a big physical side and they kept on bullying us in the box. We reacted poorly to this tactic and were fortunate at times not to concede. Even Rafa admitted we struggled to deal with their set pieces.

The only thing that has me worried is if Everton picked up on this and if they will attempt the same tactics. I have prowled some blue sh*te forums in the build up to the derby games and they seem to admit they lack a substantial striker and are keen to deploy a 6-4-0. Yet again meaning they will park th bus and try to scrammble something from set pieces. On the other hand my faith in Rafa reassures me that he will do his best to rectify the problem in due time.

Finally Delap and his towel an absolute disgrace! ffs that pissed me off

We all hurt when we play badly but if you are hurting imagine how the players feel. The Stoke result is now confined to the history books so it's on to the next game and we are not a bad team because of one result, I wonder if anyone thought we could be in this place (top) come the new year and some of the football we have played has been outstanding and I think Rafa knows if he gets the players playing that way like at Newcastle,Spurs,Bolton, we have a great chance....P.S. I mentioned the Spurs game even though we lost because that was another time we made a team look poor but we were missing the one thing all teams need, luck....

Completely echo your comments Dado.  I was speaking to someone I know and he said the same thing about Everton, they will just play against us with that piss poor excuse of a game plan, like Stoke did.

We really need to pull our socks up this week I swear to god.

I still think though that playing the formation we played is also the problem, when they pushing every one behind the ball playing 5 across the park just congests the midfield even more IMHO. We really need to go out with intent which is playing four in the mid and two up front which opens up spaces in the midfield and giving the defender less chance of bulling as they don't just have one striker to contend with. This draw to Stoke has miffed me out the same as a loss would, I'm gutted at the draw and drawing to the bitters if they decide to play chicken sh*t tactics will feel worse I really think we need to go out and be positive show them that we coming to destroy them not defend for our lives and be happy with a draw.

Keane and Torres should have started the match not on the bench.... we did miss Xabi, when Lucas was six yards from goal and tried to pass to no one

We were absolutely pathetic. We didn't look like title contenders. even with Stoke's abysmal tactics of hoofing the ball into the box and playing a -8-2-0 formation we should have been able to break them down. We can't keep relying on Stevie. Why didn't Keane come off the bench, why did Torres and Keane both start on the bench? This was a crucial game for us, because if we won and man u won it meant we were three points clear of chelsea, if we won and chelsea won it means we were an extra 3points clear of man u and if we won and they drew we would have been 2more points in front of them both.
I'm so dissappointed with us today.
Lucas was dreadful, some people on this forum have been saying 'I think more people will jump on the Lucas bandwagon'. Never. He is sh*t. He was dreadful, I woke up at 4o clock to watch it live, and was thinking about going back to bed because we were so pathetic.
I think we are all seeing excatly how much we missed Xabi, he's the best passer in the league and has brilliant vision. We don't have enough flair in our team, Benayoun even though I like him is not a starting eleven player. He's an impact sub, he might be the main man for his country, but for Liverpool his best role for the team is to come off the bench with 20minutes left to try and break games open.

Sorry for the rant. Extremely dissapointed