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      Do you believe in God

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      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #115: Jul 27, 2009 04:35:31 pm
      No definite answers to these questions will ever be found as nobody witnessed the first living systems organising themselves and gaining the ability to propagate. Nobody witnessed the evolution of cells and the specialisation into plant cells. Nevertheless can several sub-questions be answered by specific experiments and the analysis of living organisms. Namely, it is possible to predict highly possible consequences under certain conditions due to physico-chemical laws.

      Before approaching the evolution of complex systems like cells, for example, it is necessary to understand the evolution of their partial sub-systems. Macromolecules are able to perform actions that are out of reach for smaller molecules. How, then, did macromolecules develop during the history of the earth, and how were valuable properties accumulated?

      The Age of the Earth and the Conditions at the Earth’s Surface

      Physicists and geologists consider the earth to be 4.5 to 5 thousand million years old. All evolution of organisms has therefore to have been taken place during this time, unless it is assumed that the predecessors of living systems developed elsewhere in the universe before coming to the earth. This idea led to a lot of speculation, but not a single real proof for such an event exists.

      During the Precambrian and after cooling down and forming a solid earth crust, the earth was surrounded by a reduced atmosphere consisting mainly of ammonia, methane, hydrogen, steam, and later most likely also of carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, and nitrogen. Gases like hydrogen sulphide and nitrogen oxides may have been present in trace amounts. It is assumed that the originally very high percentage of hydrogen was soon reduced as a consequence of volatilization into the universe.

      No ozone layer was yet existing and as a result, the UV-radiation must have been very high. A further cooling down led to the condensation of steam and thus to the first stretches of water. It could be that these were the conditions under which the first small organic molecules like alcohols, organic acids, etc originated.

      The question can be tested experimentally. Simulation experiments were performed during the 1950th in the lab of H. C. UREY (University of Chicago). The illustration at the beginning of this chapter shows an experimental set-up that was constructed by UREY’s collaborator S. L. MILLER.

      It shows a closed reaction system that can be filled with the mentioned gases at different ratios and concentrations. Energy can be supplied by heating, electrical discharges, high pressure or ultraviolet radiation. After a reaction period of several days or weeks, MILLER was able to detect a number of organic molecules, among them formaldehyde, cyanide, carbodiimide, organic acids, amino acids, and many others. The spectrum of molecules changed depending on the experimental conditions.

      Part of these molecules are themselves highly reactive. L.E. ORGEL (The Salk Institute of Biological Studies, La Jolla / San Diego) was able to show that under abiotic conditions and after exposure to UV radiation, cyanides condense to purines like adenine and guanine. Moreover, amino groups incorporated into carbon hydroxides (like organic acids), thus leading to numerous further amino acids.

      Sugars, both hexoses and pentoses, result as a consequence of formaldehyde exposed to UV radiation. Long hydrocarbons arise from methane with electrical discharges or ionising radiation as sources of energy. The same conditions allow the addition of carbon dioxide, thus leading to long fatty acid chains.

      These and similar simulations show, that in principle all small molecules that we know as parts of cells or starting compounds of metabolic pathways can develop under abiotic conditions. Do abiotic conditions therefore also cause the existence of macromolecules?
      stuey
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #116: Jul 27, 2009 04:40:23 pm
      Honestly tho scientists from Nasa crash landed an impacter into a comet and it recorded and sent data back to another craft it was working in unison with and even then they found microbial life as well as all the elements that the comet was made up of.
      There are religions on this planet that demand you call black white and deny the obvious even though it screams credibility at the indoctrinated victims. As time goes on these religions become more extreme in an effort to retain some followers and trying to communicate becomes well near impossible, attempting to enlighten them with the information below would get you jailed or killed.
      « Last Edit: Jul 27, 2009 04:57:51 pm by stuey »
      Coutinho_10
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #117: Jul 27, 2009 04:45:03 pm
      i believe there is two gods, they both wear/wore the number 9 shirt for us, one is spanish and we all know who the other one is...a certain robbie :D
      dunlop liddell shankly
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #118: Jul 27, 2009 05:14:05 pm
      Something must have put the world here, for me the only explaination is a "god". Where me and religion differ however is the fact that's all that "god" did. I don't think there's any spiritual on goings on earth, you're on your todd without the aid of some fella upstairs with a dopey white beard.

      As for evolution, well to be honest there are cases of it. There's enough proof to show that, but what put them there in the first place? I can't come to terms with, the big band malarky. Just doesn't make sense to me.

      So to sum up really I believe in both, that way I can't be wrong :laugh:. A "god" created everything in year dot and since then everything has "evolved" and will continue to "evolve".
      StevieG-force
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #119: Jul 27, 2009 05:50:23 pm
      Whether there is a god or not will never be answered, I don't think there is, but I refuse to believe the story of any religion of how this world came to be. Wether it be chrisianity or scientology I see no difference in these religions, if there is no proof then what reason do we have to believe in any religion? Is it out of the fear of death or just for comfort. Where as evolution does offer proof, conclusive evidence of natural selection that disproves any other religions theory's. Therefore although aspects of religion do teach us some morals their just stories written by other human beings really, could say the same thing about any story book, like the adventures of fire man sam! :lmao:
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #120: Jul 27, 2009 07:11:49 pm
      I just think about how many wars have been fought over religion, how many terrorist attacks have happened because of religion and how many lives have been lost because of religion, surely if there was a god he would step down from his holy place and set everyone right regarding the path to enlightenment.
      shabbadoo
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #121: Jul 27, 2009 09:51:16 pm
      well all wars were started by man not god,mans greed to impose thier way of life on another,wars are created to rape other countries of its natural resources and then blame religion.All religions teach us peace and tollerance,thats why there is thing called judgement day when all souls shall recieve true judgement from god.
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #122: Jul 27, 2009 09:57:44 pm
      I seen Judgment day, was not that good to be honest I proffered the original Terminator all sequels are sh*t.
      AJ
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #123: Jul 27, 2009 10:02:49 pm
      What is God? or should that be Who? as soon as that question can be answered then I think I'll start believing
      BigRed1978
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #124: Jul 27, 2009 10:10:34 pm
      well all wars were started by man not god

      So in that case since man was supposedly created by God doesn't that make it God's fault by default/association?

      Therefore if God made man in his own image that makes God a fairly unpleasant deity does it not?
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #125: Jul 27, 2009 10:20:20 pm
      Humans were around a long time before religion I suggest you look in the paranormal thread and check out the ancient cave drawings in there and you'll see who the so called gods that Humans were worshiping back then.
      justice4the96
      • Forum Graeme Souness
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #126: Jul 27, 2009 10:20:46 pm
      Sometimes you believe what you want to believe.. I'd certainly like to think that there is a God and that one day he/she/it will explain their plan and all will become clear. In my view there is no explanation as to how earth was created.. so I have to believe it was created by something that we do not understand yet and simply aren't yet meant to understand yet and that something is God.
      BigRed1978
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #127: Jul 27, 2009 10:23:00 pm
      Humans were around a long time before religion I suggest you look in the paranormal thread and check out the ancient cave drawings in there and you'll see who the so called gods that Humans were worshiping back then.

      I'm well aware of this, i was just creating further points for the religious section of the forum to answer.
      shabbadoo
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #128: Jul 27, 2009 10:26:35 pm
      So in that case since man was supposedly created by God doesn't that make it God's fault by default/association?

      Therefore if God made man in his own image that makes God a fairly unpleasant deity does it not?
      people get confused with the concept that god created man in his own image,we look nothing like our creator,example when you paint a picture of a vision in your mind that painting is of your own image of that vision,god created us the way were are today,just as all creations that were created by god.
      God has created man with the gift of CHOICE we as humans can relate to whats right and wrong,were as all other creations rely on thier instinct,man has a special place amongst the creations as man is the rightfull ruler of the earth under gods law.
      BigRed1978
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #129: Jul 27, 2009 10:30:22 pm
      But surely with the vilest of man's actions (war, paedophillia, murder etc etc) hasn't God's law been well and truly violated?

      Of course it is written that sinners will be cast out of heaven but if man is in such a state today why doesn't God intervene?

      If we are reserved such a special place by the Almighty why doesn't he guide mankind along the way from time to time?
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #130: Jul 27, 2009 10:31:32 pm
      I'm well aware of this, I was just creating further points for the religious section of the forum to answer.

       was not aimed at you red ;) I like your ideology
      BigRed1978
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #131: Jul 27, 2009 10:37:25 pm
      No worries fella.

      I'm just full of questions ;)
      shabbadoo
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #132: Jul 27, 2009 10:40:36 pm
      But surely with the vilest of man's actions (war, paedophillia, murder etc etc) hasn't God's law been well and truly violated?

      Of course it is written that sinners will be cast out of heaven but if man is in such a state today why doesn't God intervene?

      If we are reserved such a special place by the Almighty why doesn't he guide mankind along the way from time to time?
      If man was to follow gods law then we would not be in the situation we are in today,All the messengers from adam to muhammad preached the same religion monothesiem in one god,This life were are living is nothing but a test,people have forgotten to message of god and now follow thier own desires,capaitalism is the new god,we in the west have left our churches on sundays and head for the nearest shopping centers,day by day the message of god is being taken away from us.Ask yourself one question ,why did god reveal  the books,old testament,gospel and the quran if they were not reminders of him to us.
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #133: Jul 27, 2009 10:44:29 pm
      Can I just stop you shaboo and ask you who the Mayans worshiped as their god ? did they follow the religions of today ? are the Mayans not infact an older civilization than than the civilization that created the so called religions you are championing ?
      shabbadoo
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #134: Jul 27, 2009 10:51:02 pm
      I cant answer that but,Who created the mayan people?What I understand of religious teaching is that all prophets were sent to thier own nations,so wether any biblical message reached the mayan people I dont know.but the most earliest civilisations I think were the nubians/sumerians I double check and let you know hope fully.(GOD WILLING) :f_tongueincheek:
      crouchinho
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #135: Jul 27, 2009 10:54:24 pm
      So in that case since man was supposedly created by God doesn't that make it God's fault by default/association?

      Therefore if God made man in his own image that makes God a fairly unpleasant deity does it not?

      Our parents gave birth to us, should they be responsible if we commit murder?

      That line of thinking is idiotic IMO. No one controls us but ourselves and power/money are the causes of war, no matter what anyone thinks. In the end, a nation will not enter a war if they do not benefit from it financially, geographically etc.
      StevieG-force
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #136: Jul 27, 2009 10:55:19 pm
      So you think God wrote those religious books in person Shabbadoo? By hand? They were written by human beings,they are just like any other novels, they're fiction writing. Stories made up by people that is all any religious book is.
      BigRed1978
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #137: Jul 27, 2009 11:02:27 pm
      If man was to follow gods law then we would not be in the situation we are in today,All the messengers from adam to muhammad preached the same religion monothesiem in one god,This life were are living is nothing but a test,people have forgotten to message of god and now follow thier own desires,capaitalism is the new god,we in the west have left our churches on sundays and head for the nearest shopping centers,day by day the message of god is being taken away from us.Ask yourself one question ,why did god reveal  the books,old testament,gospel and the quran if they were not reminders of him to us.

      But my question is if God is an omnipotent being then why instill man with free will if man was only going to squander the chance?

      Surely free will should've been revoked once Cain killed Abel?

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