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      Do you believe in God

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      shabbadoo
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #138: Jul 27, 2009 11:02:43 pm
      I beleive that the holy books are the word of god if thats what your asking?why does the bible ,the torah and the quran mention the people of babylon,children of israel,the egyptians,the people of lot,david solomon and so on?
      These are plain reminders to us of god.
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #139: Jul 27, 2009 11:07:12 pm
      The Gospel According to RedFCBlood

      Chapter 1 verse 1

      Sir Alex Ferguson is a c**t

      Chapter 1 verse 2

      The entirety of his team are bigger cu*ts

      Chapter 1 verse 3

      The supporters that follow Man utd are even bigger cu*ts than anything mentioned before this

      Chapter 1 verse 4

      Anything Manchester United needs buring so grab your torch and pitchforks they are Ogres

      Chapter 2 verse 1

      God is a myth

      Chapter 2 verse 2

      The bible is a work of fiction 2nd hand news like chinese whispers

      Chapter 2 verse 3

      Mary was not a virgin she was getting back skuttled of Jesus uncle out side of the local ymca when she conceived

      Chapter 2 verse 4

      Jesus was not even born in Bethlehem as they could not find three wise men or a virgin. oh and a donkey.

      Chapter 3 verse 1

      The big bang was how the universe was created

      Chapter 3 verse 2

      Scientific evidence backs up evolution as to how life came about

      Chapter 3 verse 3

      No matter how many times you tell yourself you did not descend from monkeys, try telling yourself that the next time your trying to stick a pea nut up your arse.

      Chapter 3 verse 4

      Don't be gutted an beat yourself up about the truth life could be much worse you could support Man utd

      Ahmen Brother. ;)

      shabbadoo
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #140: Jul 27, 2009 11:10:10 pm
      If you take away mans free will then he nothing but a prisoner,thats why we are givien the choice of right and wrong,Animals cannot tell whats right or wrong,They have instinct,We as humans have itellect we can stop and choose to do what we do,free will.
      But we all shall answer for our own actions.
      robbyr
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #141: Jul 28, 2009 12:42:45 am
      I cant answer that but,Who created the Mayan people?What I understand of religious teaching is that all prophets were sent to their own nations,so wether any biblical message reached the Mayan people I dint know.but the most earliest civilisations I think were the nubians/sumerians I double check and let you know hope fully.(GOD WILLING) :f_tongueincheek:
      The Sumarians indeed where the first civilisations, and in all their scripts they talk of Giants and Flying Bright angels, these directly relate to an advanced civilisation (probably the genetic creator of man, an alien force), the biggest debate is always the missing link, and even science has not yet described how man became so intellectual in one foul swoop, we have been genetically engineered, there is not much doubt in my mind, we were probably a slave race to serve our superiors....or gods.
      robbyr
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #142: Jul 28, 2009 12:50:31 am
      Life evolved from single celled organisms simples..........
      you are correct, amino acids are the building blocks of life, these come from chemicals that were created by the big bang and Super nova explosions, its just science really, the question should really say "what is conciousness, as life can easily be created in a lab"
      Bahrosa-LFC
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #143: Jul 28, 2009 05:35:00 am
      How can the universe be as perfect as it is without being put that way? I believe the Big Bang did happen and was created by God as stated in the Qur'an (21:30):

      Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens(universe) and the earth were of one piece, then We parted them, and we made every living thing of water? Will they not then believe?

      If the Earth was a bit closer to the sun we would have unimaginable weather which would be unsuitable for life.

      We have been given the freedom of choice, and whether we abuse that by starting wars and so on is our choice, and we can't blame God for this. I believe that we were created as the only species on earth with choice.

      What do we actually give to this world? Plants photosynthesise, if one animal becomes extinct, a food chain will be severely effected. But, if we were taken out of the equation nothing would happen. This is a sign of God IMO.
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #144: Jul 28, 2009 10:07:09 am
      The theory of everything (TOE) is a putative theory of theoretical physics that fully explains and links together all known physical phenomena. Initially, the term was used with an ironic connotation to refer to various overgeneralized theories. For example, a great-grandfather of Ijon Tichy — a character from a cycle of Stanisław Lem's science fiction stories of 1960s — was known to work on the "General Theory of Everything". Physicist John Ellis claims[1] to have introduced the term into the technical literature in an article in Nature in 1986.[2] Over time, the term stuck in popularizations of quantum physics to describe a theory that would unify or explain through a single model the theories of all fundamental interactions of nature.

      There have been many theories of everything proposed by theoretical physicists over the last century, but none have been confirmed experimentally. The primary problem in producing a TOE is that the accepted theories of quantum mechanics and general relativity are hard to combine.

      Based on theoretical holographic principle arguments from the 1990s, many physicists believe that 11-dimensional M-theory, which is described in many sectors by matrix string theory, in many other sectors by perturbative string theory is the complete theory of everything, although there is no widespread consensus and M-theory is not a completed theory but rather an approach for producing one.

      Laplace famously suggested that a sufficiently powerful intellect could, if it knew the position and velocity of every particle at a given time, along with the laws of nature, calculate the position of any particle at any other time:

      An intellect which at a certain moment would know all forces that set nature in motion, and all positions of all items of which nature is composed, if this intellect were also vast enough to submit these data to analysis, it would embrace in a single formula the movements of the greatest bodies of the universe and those of the tiniest atom; for such an intellect nothing would be uncertain and the future just like the past would be present before its eyes.

      Although modern quantum mechanics suggests that uncertainty is inescapable, a unifying theory governing probabilistic assignments may nevertheless exist.

      Ancient Greece to Einstein

      Since ancient Greek times, philosophers have speculated that the apparent diversity of appearances conceals an underlying unity, and thus that the list of forces might be short, indeed might contain only a single entry. For example, the mechanical philosophy of the 17th century posited that all forces could be ultimately reduced to contact forces between tiny solid particles.[3] This was abandoned after the acceptance of Isaac Newton's long-distance force of gravity; but at the same time, Newton's work in his Principia provided the first dramatic empirical evidence for the unification of apparently distinct forces: Galileo's work on terrestrial gravity, Kepler's laws of planetary motion, and the phenomenon of tides were all quantitatively explained by a single law of universal gravitation.

      In 1820, Hans Christian Ørsted discovered a connection between electricity and magnetism, triggering decades of work that culminated in James Clerk Maxwell's theory of electromagnetism. Also during the 19th and early 20th centuries, it gradually became apparent that many common examples of forces—contact forces, elasticity, viscosity, friction, pressure—resulted from electrical interactions between the smallest particles of matter. In the late 1920s, the new quantum mechanics showed that the chemical bonds between atoms were examples of (quantum) electrical forces, justifying Dirac's boast that "the underlying physical laws necessary for the mathematical theory of a large part of physics and the whole of chemistry are thus completely known".[4]

      Attempts to unify gravity with electromagnetism date back at least to Michael Faraday's experiments of 1849–50.[5] After Albert Einstein's theory of gravity (general relativity) was published in 1915, the search for a unified field theory combining gravity with electromagnetism began in earnest. At the time, it seemed plausible that no other fundamental forces exist. Prominent contributors were Gunnar Nordström, Hermann Weyl, Arthur Eddington, Theodor Kaluza, Oskar Klein, and most notably, many attempts by Einstein and his collaborators. In his last years, Albert Einstein was intensely occupied in finding such a unifying theory. None of these attempts were successful.

      New discoveries

      The search for a unifying theory was interrupted by the discovery of the strong and weak nuclear forces, which could not be subsumed into either gravity or electromagnetism. A further hurdle was the acceptance that quantum mechanics had to be incorporated from the start, rather than emerging as a consequence of a deterministic unified theory, as Einstein had hoped. Gravity and electromagnetism could always peacefully coexist as entries in a list of Newtonian forces, but for many years it seemed that gravity could not even be incorporated into the quantum framework, let alone unified with the other fundamental forces. For this reason, work on unification for much of the twentieth century, focused on understanding the three "quantum" forces: electromagnetism and the weak and strong forces. The first two were unified in 1967–68 by Sheldon Glashow, Steven Weinberg, and Abdus Salam as the "electroweak" force.[7] However, while the strong and electroweak forces peacefully coexist in the standard model of particle physics, they remain distinct. Several Grand Unified Theories (GUTs) have been proposed to unify them. Although the simplest GUTs have been experimentally ruled out, the general idea, especially when linked with supersymmetry, remains strongly favored by the theoretical physics community.

      Modern physics

      In current mainstream physics, a Theory of Everything would unify all the fundamental interactions of nature, which are usually considered to be four in number: gravity, the strong nuclear force, the weak nuclear force, and the electromagnetic force. Because the weak force can transform elementary particles from one kind into another, the TOE should yield a deep understanding of the various different kinds of particles as well as the different forces. The expected pattern of theories is:
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         Theory of Everything    
       
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
       
         Gravity    
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         Electronuclear force (GUT)    
       
       
         
       
         
       
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         Strong force
      su(3)    
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         Electroweak force
      su(2) x u(1)    
       
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         Weak force
      su(2)    
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         Electromagnetism
      u(1)    
       
         
       
         
       
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         Electric force    
       
         
       
         
       
         
       
         Magnetic force    
       
       
         
       
         
       

      In addition to the forces listed here, modern cosmology might require an inflationary force, dark energy, and also dark matter composed of fundamental particles outside the scheme of the standard model. The existence of these has not been proven and there are alternative theories such as modified Newtonian dynamics.

      Electroweak unification is a broken symmetry: the electromagnetic and weak forces appear distinct at low energies because the particles carrying the weak force, the W and Z bosons have a mass of about 100 GeV, whereas the photon, which carries the electromagnetic force, is massless. At higher energies Ws and Zs can be created easily and the unified nature of the force becomes apparent. Grand unification is expected to work in a similar way, but at energies of the order of 1016 GeV, far greater than could be reached by any possible Earth-based particle accelerator. By analogy, unification of the GUT force with gravity is expected at the Planck energy, roughly 1019 GeV.

      It may seem premature to be searching for a TOE when there is as yet no direct evidence for an electronuclear force, and while in any case there are many different proposed GUTs. In fact the name deliberately suggests the hubris involved. Nevertheless, most physicists believe this unification is possible, partly due to the past history of convergence towards a single theory. Supersymmetric GUTs seem plausible not only for their theoretical "beauty", but because they naturally produce large quantities of dark matter, and the inflationary force may be related to GUT physics (although it does not seem to form an inevitable part of the theory). And yet GUTs are clearly not the final answer. Both the current standard model and proposed GUTs are quantum field theories which require the problematic technique of renormalization to yield sensible answers. This is usually regarded as a sign that these are only effective field theories, omitting crucial phenomena relevant only at very high energies. Furthermore, the inconsistency between quantum mechanics and general relativity implies that one or both of these must be replaced by a theory incorporating quantum gravity.

      The mainstream theory of everything at the moment is superstring theory / M-theory; current research on loop quantum gravity may eventually play a fundamental role in a TOE, but that is not its primary aim.[9] These theories attempt to deal with the renormalization problem by setting up some lower bound on the length scales possible. String theories and supergravity (both believed to be limiting cases of the yet-to-be-defined M-theory) suppose that the universe actually has more dimensions than the easily observed three of space and one of time. The motivation behind this approach began with the Kaluza-Klein theory in which it was noted that applying general relativity to a five dimensional universe (with the usual four dimensions plus one small curled-up dimension) yields the equivalent of the usual general relativity in four dimensions together with Maxwell's equations (electromagnetism, also in four dimensions). This has led to efforts to work with theories with large number of dimensions in the hopes that this would produce equations that are similar to known laws of physics. The notion of extra dimensions also helps to resolve the hierarchy problem, which is the question of why gravity is so much weaker than any other force. The common answer involves gravity leaking into the extra dimensions in ways that the other forces do not.

      In the late 1990s, it was noted that one problem with several of the candidates for theories of everything (but particularly string theory) was that they did not constrain the characteristics of the predicted universe. For example, many theories of quantum gravity can create universes with arbitrary numbers of dimensions or with arbitrary cosmological constants. Even the "standard" ten-dimensional string theory allows the "curled up" dimensions to be compactified in an enormous number of different ways (one estimate is 10500) each of which corresponds to a different collection of fundamental particles and low-energy forces. This array of theories is known as the string theory landscape.

      A speculative solution is that many or all of these possibilities are realised in one or another of a huge number of universes, but that only a small number of them are habitable, and hence the fundamental constants of the universe are ultimately the result of the anthropic principle rather than a consequence of the theory of everything. This anthropic approach is often criticised in that, because the theory is flexible enough to encompass almost any observation, it cannot make useful (as in original, falsifiable, and verifiable) predictions. In this view, string theory would be considered a pseudoscience, where an unfalsifiable theory is constantly adapted to fit the experimental results.

      With reference to Gödel's incompleteness theorem

      A small number of scientists claim that Gödel's incompleteness theorem proves that any attempt to construct a TOE is bound to fail. Gödel's theorem, informally stated, asserts that any sufficiently complex axiomatical system for a mathematical theory is either inconsistent (both a statement and its denial can be derived from its axioms) or incomplete (a statement which is trivially true can't be derived from its axioms). In his 1966 book The Relevance of Physics, Stanley Jaki pointed out that, because any "theory of everything" will certainly be a consistent non-trivial mathematical theory, it must be incomplete. He claims that this dooms searches for a deterministic theory of everything.[10]

      Freeman Dyson has stated that
      “    Gödel’s theorem implies that pure mathematics is inexhaustible. No matter how many problems we solve, there will always be other problems that cannot be solved within the existing rules. [...] Because of Gödel's theorem, physics is inexhaustible too. The laws of physics are a finite set of rules, and include the rules for doing mathematics, so that Gödel's theorem applies to them.    ”

      Stephen Hawking was originally a believer in the Theory of Everything but, after considering Gödel's Theorem, concluded that one was not obtainable.
      “    Some people will be very disappointed if there is not an ultimate theory, that can be formulated as a finite number of principles. I used to belong to that camp, but I have changed my mind.    ”

      This view has been argued against by Jürgen Schmidhuber (1997), who pointed out that Gödel's theorems are irrelevant even for computable physics.[11] In 2000, Schmidhuber explicitly constructed limit-computable, deterministic universes whose pseudo-randomness based on undecidable, Gödel-like halting problems is extremely hard to detect but does not at all prevent formal TOEs describable by very few bits of information.[12][13]

      Related critique was offered by Solomon Feferman,[14] among others. Douglas S. Robertson offers Conway's game of life as an example:[15] The underlying rules are simple and complete, but there are formally undecidable questions about the game's behaviors. Analogously, it may (or may not) be possible to completely state the underlying rules of physics with a finite number of well-defined laws, but there is little doubt that there are questions about the behavior of physical systems which are formally undecidable on the basis of those underlying laws.

      Since most physicists would consider the statement of the underlying rules to suffice as the definition of a "theory of everything", these researchers argue that Gödel's Theorem does not mean that a TOE cannot exist. On the other hand, the physicists invoking Gödel's Theorem appear, at least in some cases, to be referring not to the underlying rules, but to the understandability of the behavior of all physical systems, as when Hawking mentions arranging blocks into rectangles, turning the computation of prime numbers into a physical question.[16] This definitional discrepancy may explain some of the disagreement among researchers.

      Another approach to working with the limits of logic implied by Gödel's incompleteness theorems is to abandon the attempt to model reality using a formal system altogether. Process Physics[17] is a notable example of a candidate TOE that takes this approach, where reality is modeled using self-organizing (purely semantic) information.

      [edit] Potential status of a theory of everything

      No physical theory to date is believed to be precisely accurate. Instead, physics has proceeded by a series of "successive approximations" allowing more and more accurate predictions over a wider and wider range of phenomena. Some physicists believe that it is therefore a mistake to confuse theoretical models with the true nature of reality, and hold that the series of approximations will never terminate in the "truth". Einstein himself expressed this view on occasions.[18] On this view, we may reasonably hope for a theory of everything which self-consistently incorporates all currently known forces, but should not expect it to be the final answer. On the other hand it is often claimed that, despite the apparently ever-increasing complexity of the mathematics of each new theory, in a deep sense associated with their underlying gauge symmetry and the number of fundamental physical constants, the theories are becoming simpler. If so, the process of simplification cannot continue indefinitely.

      There is a philosophical debate within the physics community as to whether a theory of everything deserves to be called the fundamental law of the universe.[19] One view is the hard reductionist position that the TOE is the fundamental law and that all other theories that apply within the universe are a consequence of the TOE. Another view is that emergent laws (called "free floating laws" by Steven Weinberg), which govern the behavior of complex systems, should be seen as equally fundamental. Examples are the second law of thermodynamics and the theory of natural selection. The point being that, although in our universe these laws describe systems whose behaviour could ("in principle") be predicted from a TOE, they would also hold in universes with different low-level laws, subject only to some very general conditions. Therefore it is of no help, even in principle, to invoke low-level laws when discussing the behavior of complex systems. Some argue that this attitude would violate Occam's Razor if a completely valid TOE were formulated. It is not clear that there is any point at issue in these debates (e.g., between Steven Weinberg and Philip Anderson) other than the right to apply the high-status word "fundamental" to their respective subjects of interest.

      Although the name "theory of everything" suggests the determinism of Laplace's quote, this gives a very misleading impression. Determinism is frustrated by the probabilistic nature of quantum mechanical predictions, by the extreme sensitivity to initial conditions that leads to mathematical chaos, and by the extreme mathematical difficulty of applying the theory. Thus, although the current standard model of particle physics "in principle" predicts all known non-gravitational phenomena, in practice only a few quantitative results have been derived from the full theory (e.g., the masses of some of the simplest hadrons), and these results (especially the particle masses which are most relevant for low-energy physics) are less accurate than existing experimental measurements. The true TOE would almost certainly be even harder to apply. The main motive for seeking a TOE, apart from the pure intellectual satisfaction of completing a centuries-long quest, is that all prior successful unifications have predicted new phenomena, some of which (e.g., electrical generators) have proved of great practical importance. As in other cases of theory reduction, the TOE would also allow us to confidently define the domain of validity and residual error of low-energy approximations to the full theory which could be used for practical calculations.

      [edit] Theory of everything and philosophy
      Main article: Theory of everything (philosophy)

      The status of a physical TOE is open to philosophical debate. For example, if physicalism is true, a physical TOE will coincide with a philosophical theory of everything. Some philosophers (Aristotle, Plato, Hegel, Whitehead, et al.) have attempted to construct all-encompassing systems. Others are highly dubious about the very possibility of such an exercise. Stephen Hawking wrote in the A Brief History of Time that even if we had a TOE, it would necessarily be a set of equations. He wrote, "What breathes fire into the equations to make a universe for the equations to describe?". Of course, the ultimate irreducible brute fact would then be "why those equations?" One possible solution to the last question might be to adopt the point of view of ultimate ensemble, or modal realism, and say that those equations are not unique.
      stuey
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #145: Jul 28, 2009 10:42:22 am
      How can the universe be as perfect as it is without being put that way? I believe the Big Bang did happen and was created by God as stated in the Qur'an (21:30):

      Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens(universe) and the earth were of one piece, then We parted them, and we made every living thing of water? Will they not then believe?

      If the Earth was a bit closer to the sun we would have unimaginable weather which would be unsuitable for life.

      We have been given the freedom of choice, and whether we abuse that by starting wars and so on is our choice, and we can't blame God for this. I believe that we were created as the only species on earth with choice.

      What do we actually give to this world? Plants photosynthesise, if one animal becomes extinct, a food chain will be severely effected. But, if we were taken out of the equation nothing would happen. This is a sign of God IMO.
      Where is the evidence to support your theory of an all powerful creator?  like all the other religions for one reason or the other we are supposed to believe some outrageous claims and submit to the associated doctrine of the appointed teachers. These teachers or instructors are not supreme beings they are mortal men who may or may not have their own agenda and reasoning for doing what they do, the same statement applies to various faiths since they were conceived and the original texts in some cases have been altered out of all recognition.
      Man as a being could quite possibly have become extinct if the level of consciousness had not evolved to such a degree as to give him the wherewithall to use what was available in order to survive and so on through time, the key word here is one hated by the storytellers  - evolve.
       The evolution theory stands up for a lot more examination than any religious concepts and though it may not give a cosy solution to the mysteries of the universe et al it is infinitely more credible.
      « Last Edit: Jul 28, 2009 11:03:45 am by stuey »
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #146: Jul 28, 2009 11:12:10 am
      The difference between evolution and Creationism is that evolution is real and Creationism is not real. Creationism is based on the Bible that says that God created the world in 6 days about 10,000 years ago. Clearly the world was not created in 6 days about 10,000 years ago, so therefore the Bible is just plain wrong. If the world were merely 10,000 years old then how do you explain the dinosaurs that are millions of years old? We've discovered life fossils that date back billions of years. Even the skeletons of modern humans date back before the time of Adam and Eve.

      If we were to believe the Bible, then we would have to believe the Earth was created before the stars, which is the wrong order. If the stars were created 10,000 years ago, we wouldn't be able to see stars that are more than 10,000 light years away. That's because if a star was further away than 10,000 light years, the light from that star wouldn't have got here yet. Our galaxy alone is about 100,000 light years across. If the Bible were true, we wouldn't be able to see but 1/10th the way across our own galaxy. We surely wouldn't be able to see other galaxies or galactic clusters or know that the universe is expanding.

      Our modern technology has proved the Bible wrong. That means that if there is a God, he didn't write the Bible and the Bible is not his word. If the Bible were the word of God and the Bible is wrong, then God is wrong. And if God can't be wrong, then the Bible, which is wrong, can't be the word of God.

      Men who lived thousands of years ago wrote the Bible. The authors had limited knowledge of the nature of the universe and wrote the Bible based on what they believed at the time. They didn't know the Earth was round and that it orbited the Sun, which is a star among billions of stars in the galaxy, which is but one galaxy in billions of galaxies that have existed for billions of years. To them, the world was flat. There was up and there was down and God lived in the sky. They didn't know the world was round and there was no such thing as "up". They didn't know that the sky was a thin layer of gas that surrounds the surface of this planet. We have been to the sky and we have been above the sky and God isn't living there.

      As to evolution, evolution is science. We have the bones of creatures living millions of years ago that are the links between different forms of life. Bones exist that link us humans with our common ancestors that we share with other primates. In fact we have unearthed many civilizations that go back further than 10,000 years and predate Adam and Eve. And these discoveries actually exist and can be measured. We know them to be real.

      Evolution is happening right now. Farmers have been using evolution for thousands of years to breed new and better farm animals and crops. The corn we eat today is very different than the corn that was raised by the ancient Egyptians. Today's cattle are very different from cows a few hundred years ago. The difference is that farmers controlled the breading to select the best individuals and to cause them to reproduce instead of the inferior ones. We have taken control of evolution and used it to our benefit.

      Do we know everything about evolution? No, we don't. But we know a great deal, and we're learning more every day. As we pursue science and research, we are expanding our knowledge of the reality of the universe and the world around us. This is real knowledge about the way that the world actually is. Knowledge that has come from scientific discovery rather than the mythology of past and primitive civilizations.

      People don't like the idea of evolution because of our fear of death and that we like to think of ourselves as something special. The idea that we "came from monkeys" is as disgusting as sex. If God made man in his image and we are the only life in the universe and we dominate over all other things and we're going to live forever, that would be a great reality for us. Unfortunately, that's not the way it is.

      On the other hand, this planet is but a speck of dust in the universe. We are a small planet rotating around a star that is one of billions of stars in a galaxy that is one of billions of galaxies in a universe that existed for billions of years. The universe is likely teaming with life, some of which is so evolved that they would never visit here because we are too primitive to even be considered interesting, unless we were considered tasty food. We exist as a result of random chance and the only reason we exist is because our parents and their parents before them gave in to overwhelming sexual instincts, like the animals have, and we were formed as a chance DNA combination. We exist for no other reason.

      Now, which one would you rather believe? It's simple. We would all rather believe that we are special and that God has a special purpose for us and that we are important. But which one is real? The one we would rather believe? Or do we believe what is supported by scientific fact. Sometimes what we want and the way things are not the same. It takes courage to believe in what's real. Those who are afraid of what's real are attached to maintaining the illusion of a creation rather than facing the facts. The reason I'm here is because my father didn't have it together enough to use a condom properly. It's that simple.

      Christianity itself has evolved over the centuries. In order to survive it has had to change and adapt. Many religions and many branches of Christianity have become extinct over the centuries. In order to survive, Christianity has had to merge with the cultures of other religions. For example, Christmas is not a Christian holiday. Christmas was originally Yule and people cut down and decorated trees long before Christ was born. Easter had nothing to do with Christ rising from the dead. Easter was a pagan fertility ritual where pagans prayed to the Gods for reproduction and food. Hence, the rabbits and the eggs.

      The religions of the world are threatened by modern science. We humans have evolved to the point where we know a lot more than we ever did and we now know that a lot of what we believed for centuries is just plain wrong. However, we humans are still herd animals and it is our instinctive nature to continue to believe what the tribe believes rather than what's logical. Our minds have not yet evolved to the point where logic and reason dominates over tribal patterns. (Except for me of course. That's why I'm writing this.) But because of technology, and especially computers, the day is coming when the rest of humanity can move up to my level and beyond. (Sorry, it's not ego, it's my warped sense of humor. In your heart you know I'm right though.)

      As religion evolves, people will turn from mythology to reality. As humans become smarter, people will want to understand the real world the way it really is. The 21st century will be the century of the global mind and the Church of Reality will evolve into the dominate religion on the planet. And I will go down in history as the Dalai Lama of nerds.
      ayrton77
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #147: Jul 28, 2009 12:04:58 pm
      ^^^^

      When you cut and paste from another site, we do ask people to leave a link to that information to avoid any accusations of plagiarism.

      Thanks.

      Above article taken from: http://www.churchofreality.org/opinion/evolve.htm
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #148: Jul 28, 2009 12:09:51 pm
      ok no worries Ayrton, forgot to include it is all

      Edit: oops I forgot to put one on Hawkings theory of everything also. I'd not long been up my apologies.
      stuey
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #149: Jul 28, 2009 01:03:02 pm
      The simple fact is RedLFCBlood that the ancient academics and soothsayers who composed the various holy books and what have you had no concept of the real world and its beginnings. As time went on and during the rapid progress of civilisation in some parts of the world,the texts of these volumes were adjusted to keep pace with discoveries and obvious mis directions in the original writings but after some time this was seen as a totally unachievable prospect so these holy writings were left in their historically ambiguous form for whatever reason and the only reply from "believers" is to quote parrot fashion texts or verses from these archaic volumes.
                               After saying that if these faiths can help anyone with emotional support or give them the moral strength to get through lifes' turmoils all well and good and there's no way I'd knock it but it doesn't ring my bell.
      « Last Edit: Jul 28, 2009 06:03:36 pm by stuey »
      bad boy bubby
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #150: Jul 28, 2009 07:32:03 pm
      but surelly matter is also created! from what?

      well all wars were started by man not god

      Well, if as you suggest, 'God' created matter he also created man.

      This being the case, then God IS responsible for man's actions; as he IS responsible for famine, pestilence, suffering and death. Surely your not saying that the 'Alpha & 'Omega' only created man, (in his own image, remember), for fun? Something to keep him entertained through eternity, maybe? Could it be that God is vengeful, perhaps?

      Or could it just be that pestilence and famine are part of nature? A part of nature that every other animal on this wee planet encounter day and daily. How arrogant is it of 'man' to believe that we are any different to any other animal? We look at 'the end of the world' as being the demise of 'man' but the world will still be populated by other species when we're long gone..... Just as it was before we appeared.





      StevieG-force
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #151: Jul 28, 2009 07:39:30 pm

      Or could it just be that pestilence and famine are part of nature? A part of nature that every other animal on this wee planet encounter day and daily. How arrogant is it of 'man' to believe that we are any different to any other animal? We look at 'the end of the world' as being the demise of 'man' but the world will still be populated by other species when we're long gone..... Just as it was before we appeared.

      Well put!
      stuey
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #152: Jul 28, 2009 07:42:29 pm

      Or could it just be that pestilence and famine are part of nature? A part of nature that every other animal on this wee planet encounter day and daily. How arrogant is it of 'man' to believe that we are any different to any other animal? We look at 'the end of the world' as being the demise of 'man' but the world will still be populated by other species when we're long gone..... Just as it was before we appeared.


      Spot on mate - hit the nail where it counts.
      « Last Edit: Jul 28, 2009 07:46:32 pm by ayrton77, Reason: Fixed quote »
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #153: Jul 28, 2009 07:52:47 pm
      Certainly encouraged a debate... I guess it just comes down to every ones beliefs really as its what an individual believes that counts some choose to follow religion as they feel its the path to enlightenment others choose to believe science etc, as long as a person is happy in what they believe then that gives them the happiness to enjoy life.
      robbyr
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #154: Jul 28, 2009 10:31:20 pm
      How can the universe be as perfect as it is without being put that way? I believe the Big Bang did happen and was created by God as stated in the Qur'an (21:30):

      Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens(universe) and the earth were of one piece, then We parted them, and we made every living thing of water? Will they not then believe?

      If the Earth was a bit closer to the sun we would have unimaginable weather which would be unsuitable for life.

      We have been given the freedom of choice, and whether we abuse that by starting wars and so on is our choice, and we can't blame God for this. I believe that we were created as the only species on earth with choice.

      What do we actually give to this world? Plants photosynthesise, if one animal becomes extinct, a food chain will be severely effected. But, if we were taken out of the equation nothing would happen. This is a sign of God IMO.
      Your theosis is flawed, you state that being just this distance from the sun is divine, i have to disagree. it has been proven by hubble that there are hundreds of billions of galaxies in just one section of the universe, each galaxy contains billions of stars, each star on average probably has a few planets, so there are billions of planets with the correct temperature, and probably the correct chemical make up to support life, its not divine, its probability in maths.
      robbyr
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #155: Jul 28, 2009 10:47:31 pm
      Despite there being religion which is usually warped  by the followers for their own ends.....after all who has the biggest house in the street is it not the vicar, usually, they get a good payday out of praying on peoples sense of want. To me religion is a business, that is used to make people powerful, and make the sheep like followers part with their money, individuality or just be lead into a herd like destination. Its hard to describe.
      The vatican is rich, and hordes monies and expensive art works, in what way is this following jesus.
      I was christened Church of England, but i have no affility with christianity, so i am not biased towards any religion.
      I do not believe in a God as such, but i do believe in something after death, not because i want to , i just have this feeling, that the religious people mention a lot, but i do agree that the world is far too fantastic to be a one off, although when i was recently knocked out for a hospital operation, i felt my soul was not in existance as time did not exist for an hour for me, which i find quite disturbing and puzzling.
      Bahrosa-LFC
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #156: Jul 29, 2009 07:54:12 am
      Your theosis is flawed, you state that being just this distance from the sun is divine, I have to disagree. it has been proven by hubble that there are hundreds of billions of galaxies in just one section of the universe, each galaxy contains billions of stars, each star on average probably has a few planets, so there are billions of planets with the correct temperature, and probably the correct chemical make up to support life, its not divine, its probability in maths.
      There's no evidence of that. That's just a claim.
      stuey
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #157: Jul 29, 2009 09:00:56 am
      There's no evidence of that. That's just a claim.
      There is qualified evidence to support this data where as the various religious claims are just that - claims.
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #158: Jul 29, 2009 09:20:11 am
      There is evidence to support hundreds of planets in the Goldie Locks zone orbiting their sun, They call it the Goldie Locks zone for a reason, because its not too close and not too far but just right to support life. Astrology has moved on ten fold in the last couple of decades to the point now where Hubble is to become obsolete in 2014 Nasa are to launch the James Webb space telescope.

      The James Webb space telescope is a  large, infrared-optimized space telescope, scheduled for launch in 2014. JWST will find the first galaxies that formed in the early Universe, connecting the Big Bang to our own Milky Way Galaxy. JWST will peer through dusty clouds to see stars forming planetary systems, connecting the Milky Way to our own Solar System. JWST's instruments will be designed to work primarily in the infrared range of the electromagnetic spectrum, with some capability in the visible range.

      JWST will have a large mirror, 6.5 meters (21.3 feet) in diameter and a sunshield the size of a tennis court. Both the mirror and sunshade won't fit onto the rocket fully open, so both will fold up and open once JWST is in outer space. JWST will reside in an orbit about 1.5 million km (1 million miles) from the Earth.

      The James Webb Space Telescope was named after a former NASA Administrator.
      niksluvslfc
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #159: Jul 29, 2009 10:19:51 am
      I believe in god ...I from a traditional Hindu family and I was brought up to believe in god ....but as a person I know that there is a superpower out there and I believe that it is here in the form of the Hindu gods .
      stuey
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      Re: Do you believe in God
      Reply #160: Jul 29, 2009 11:07:44 am
      Believe and have faith in whatever concept pleases you and may it bring you happiness and peace of mind.

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